NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

Ohh I don't know, I mean Stryper weren't that great but good for the cheese factor, and P.O.D are okayish!

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

I'm guessing it's personal preference.

Like, how I think your taste in music is shit. *nods*

Piety and rock don't mix. It's just doesn't compute. :p

Everything. The idea of it is just wrong.

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

Come to think of it, I kinda like "Spirit in the Sky." Leave it to a jew to write a great Christian rock song. I wonder if Irving Berlin sent him a telegram of congratulations or something. :p

It's rarely innovative music, typically just embracing previously existing conventions and blending it with religious lyrics. It sounds cheap and prepackaged, and dare I say it? Bubblegum.

It would be another thing if a Christian group were to enter truly groundbreaking musical territory. If they were able to entirely redefine the genre in which they exist. But so far they haven't, and in my humble opinion that has seriously hurt the industry.

you can't have religion and mix it with music that is inspired by satan himself.

not that being inspired by satan is a bad thing. i see it as a good thing

It's rarely innovative music, typically just embracing previously existing conventions and blending it with religious lyrics. It sounds cheap and prepackaged, and dare I say it? Bubblegum.

It would be another thing if a Christian group were to enter truly groundbreaking musical territory. If they were able to entirely redefine the genre in which they exist. But so far they haven't, and in my humble opinion that has seriously hurt the industry.

Yeah. I've noticed that too. It tends to have no distinctive "sound". Christian rock doesn't even have it's own unique musical sound. It would be one thing if they had blended it with something cool (Used choirs and organs in their music, or something) but as it is, christian rock is just basic rock with more worshipping.

But, depending on what kind of rock you listen to, possibly the same number of references to getting on your knees.

you can't have religion and mix it with music that is inspired by satan himself.

not that being inspired by satan is a bad thing. i see it as a good thing

Rock is inspired by satan? How did you get that idea? And wouldn't it being inspired by satan mean that it is in essence music mixed with religion?

They have no soul

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics. I think its the extreme embarrisment of it all. :rolleyes:

you can't have religion and mix it with music that is inspired by satan himself.

not that being inspired by satan is a bad thing. i see it as a good thing

Umm again I don't know about that. Max Cavalera from Soulfly has never hide his Cristianity, and the man has always made fuckin' good rock!

Come to think of it, I kinda like "Spirit in the Sky." Leave it to a jew to write a great Christian rock song. I wonder if Irving Berlin sent him a telegram of congratulations or something. :p

:eek: That's Christian Rock? I never noticed.

Umm again I don't know about that. Max Cavalera from Soulfly has never hide his Cristianity, and the man has always made fuckin' good rock!

One of the guitarists for Slayer, I forget which one (The skinnier one), is Christian.

The fact that it sounds more like country than rock. *nods*

:eek: That's Christian Rock? I never noticed.

Yessir. I believe one line goes "gotta trust in Jesus," or something quite similar.

Unless you meant Irving Berlin, who isn't at all Christian rock. He's a jew who sold millions upon millions of copies of Christian-themed songs (e.g. White Christmas) back in the 20's. I was just noting the similarity between him an Norman Greenbaum, whose only hit was a Christian rock song.

I can't take it seriously, because whenever someone mentions that they like Christian rock, I can't help but think of the South Park episode for it.

Umm again I don't know about that. Max Cavalera from Soulfly has never hide his Cristianity, and the man has always made fuckin' good rock!

Really? Is "The Prophet" about Jesus? A friend of mine is a huge fan, but I never really examined the lyrics. ;)

One of the guitarists for Slayer, I forget which one (The skinnier one), is Christian.

Umm Heneman? Or there abouts?

I can't take it seriously, because whenever someone mentions that they like Christian rock, I can't help but think of the South Park episode for it.

That's natural - that episode was hilarious. :p

Yessir. I believe one line goes "gotta trust in Jesus," or something quite similar.

Hold on, if any reference to Jesus makes something Christian Rock, that means Slayer ("Jesus Saves"), Rage Against the Machine (Quite a few), and Corporate Avenger ("Jesus Christ Homosexual") are all christian rock!

I think we may need to reconsider our definition of Christian rock.

Yessir. I believe one line goes "gotta trust in Jesus," or something quite similar.

Yeah but you can't hear that line very well. Also I only ever hear it on the radio.

Yessir. I believe one line goes "gotta trust in Jesus," or something quite similar.

Unless you meant Irving Berlin, who isn't at all Christian rock. He's a jew who sold millions upon millions of copies of Christian-themed songs (e.g. White Christmas) back in the 20's. I was just noting the similarity between him an Norman Greenbaum, whose only hit was a Christian rock song.

Indeed I always thought it was Norman Greenbaum who originaly wrote 'Spirt in the sky' Nowt to do with Berlin?

Umm Heneman? Or there abouts?

I'm not sure. First I wanted to say King, then I wanted to say Hanneman, so I just wound up just saying I forgot.

May I reccomend AC/DC's "Let there be rock" and "Who made Who?"? despite my disposition towards religion, AC/DC still rock.

Hold on, if any reference to Jesus makes something Christian Rock, that means Slayer ("Jesus Saves"), Rage Against the Machine (Quite a few), and Corporate Avenger ("Jesus Christ Homosexual") are all christian rock!

I think we may need to reconsider our definition of Christian rock.

I didn't mean to suggest that the line about Jesus made it a Christian rock song - the song's Christian throughout; that was just an example. ;)

The full lyrics are:

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When they lay me down to die
Goin' up to the spirit in the sky

Goin' up to the spirit in the sky
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best

Prepare yourself, you know it's a must
You gotta have a friend in Jesus
So you know that when you die
Gonna recommend you to the spirit in the sky

Gonna recommend you to the spirit in the sky
That's where you're gonna go when you die
When you die, and they lay you to rest
You're gonna go to the place that's the best

I've be sinner, yes I've sinned
But I've got a friend in Jesus
So you know that when I die
Gonna set me up to the spirit in the sky

Gonna send me up to the spirit in the sky
That's where I'm gonna go when I die
When I die and they lay me to rest
I'm gonna go to the place that's the best
Go to the place that's the best

Really? Is "The Prophet" about Jesus? A friend of mine is a huge fan, but I never really examined the lyrics. ;)

Umm dunno, i'll check out the lyrics when I get home.

Wife:

'Hey babe how was work?'

Me:

'Ohh okay, I'm glad it's friday, I gota put some music on'

'Ohh you and your music, not too loud okay?'

'umm yeah sure darlin' but it's gota be quite loud, it's SoulFly!'

Muhaha muuuuhahhahhah Muuhahahahahwhahahahahah!

May I reccomend AC/DC's "Let there be rock" and "Who made Who?"? despite my disposition towards religion, AC/DC still rock.

Ahhhh AC/DC have always rocked and long may it continue. :)

Indeed I always thought it was Norman Greenbaum who originaly wrote 'Spirt in the sky' Nowt to do with Berlin?

"White Christmas" is one of the most successful recordings in music history - it's just a joke I was making about Jewish people writing Christian songs: Irving Berlin's millions of records sold (not a single song related to Judaism) and Norman Greenbaum's only hit, etc. ;)

Rock is inspired by satan? How did you get that idea? And wouldn't it being inspired by satan mean that it is in essence music mixed with religion?

that's true.....i wasn't thinking. thanks for that :headbang:

Umm dunno, i'll check out the lyrics when I get home.

Wife:

'Hey babe how was work?'

Me:

'Ohh okay, I'm glad it's friday, I gota put some music on'

'Ohh you and your music, not too loud okay?'

'umm yeah sure darlin' but it's gota be quite loud, it's SoulFly!'

Muhaha muuuuhahhahhah Muuhahahahahwhahahahahah!

Ah, fun for the whole family. :p

Christian Rap sucks too...

Hold on, if any reference to Jesus makes something Christian Rock, that means Slayer ("Jesus Saves"), Rage Against the Machine (Quite a few), and Corporate Avenger ("Jesus Christ Homosexual") are all christian rock!

I think we may need to reconsider our definition of Christian rock.

it's true that slayer does mention religion a lot in their songs, but if you ever see an interview they admit that they don't follow what they sing about.

the bassist from slayer is catholic though, but he's said that the only reason they write song titles like "god hates us all", "south of heaven", "reign in blood", etc. is because they are awesome song titles, and they are fuckin awesome song titles.
if that's what you call 'christian rock', i'll :headbang: to that anyday over sissy lyrics like 'i love god' or 'jesus is my savior' sung in pop music fashion

"White Christmas" is one of the most successful recordings in music history - it's just a joke I was making about Jewish people writing Christian songs: Irving Berlin's millions of records sold (not a single song related to Judaism) and Norman Greenbaum's only hit, etc. ;)

Ahhh I see. My densness was getting in the way there, and I couldn't see the light!

Nothing wrong with Christian rock. Steven Curtis Chapman's awesome no matter what your feelings on Christianity.

It's rarely innovative music, typically just embracing previously existing conventions and blending it with religious lyrics. It sounds cheap and prepackaged, and dare I say it? Bubblegum.

It would be another thing if a Christian group were to enter truly groundbreaking musical territory. If they were able to entirely redefine the genre in which they exist. But so far they haven't, and in my humble opinion that has seriously hurt the industry.

And the lyrics lack tension. Seriously, most pop music isn't lyrically challenging, but good songs have tension in them, just like good poems. The handful of Christian rock songs I've heard are all about praising God, and the only times struggle is mentioned is in the sense that God's going to pull them through. Great songs of any type are about the personal struggle. Robert Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" is a thousand times more poignant than anything to come out of Christian rock that I've heard.

And the lyrics lack tension. Seriously, most pop music isn't lyrically challenging, but good songs have tension in them, just like good poems. The handful of Christian rock songs I've heard are all about praising God, and the only times struggle is mentioned is in the sense that God's going to pull them through. Great songs of any type are about the personal struggle. Robert Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" is a thousand times more poignant than anything to come out of Christian rock that I've heard.


Hell Robert Johnson's Red Hots is more poignant than Christian rock, and that is really just a novelty song.

It's the lack of influence of Satan that makes their "rock" music stink.

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

It could be a couple reasons. Maybe that rock in general has its roots in a rebellious and revelrous attitude that's contrary to the "follow the herd and do as God wills" part of Christianity.

Or maybe it's because people who think their religious beliefs should motivate their music don't have the integrity to be good musicians.

That the influence of Jesus can make even rock music suck just proves what a damaging influence religion is upon the world :p

The reason is...

Most worship songs are to be sung along with. Most Christian Rock is made up of worship songs.

So wiith a crowd of people all singing along and getting inot it it's good. Not so hot for solo listening.

There's odd differences like Kutless (who sound like Nickleback but I quite liked nickleback too so hey). But for the most part these songs are ones that people join in for. People don't sing along with the really massive technical songs, they do the easy ones, fact of life.

I'm guessing it's personal preference.

Like, how I think your taste in music is shit. *nods*

QFT

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.
Christian punk? Rebelling against the man with Jesus!
Unblack metal just sounds stupid. "We're metal, but we love jeeeesssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuussssss"

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

The music, because most of it seems to sound more like Country than rock, and I hate Country music.

The lyrics, because they are so sad and predictable and annoying.

The general feel for much the same reason as the other two combined.




My biggest reason? I'm Jewish, I don't like having to listen to a song about how some guy died for my sins and is the messiah and all that jazz. He didn't/isn't. Bad enough I have to try to rap my head around the Holy Trinity just so that I can have a conversation with the local nutty ultra-fundie Christians.

When Jews make our music, we make our own genre instead of pretending to be another. Klezmer FTW!

rock and roll is about sticking it to the man, and when the man is sticking it to the man..;)

the lryics aren't creative at all. some are good with instrumentation. it still sucks

The only good christian music is gospel.

I'm not a big fan of Christian music. Mostly because of Christain radio's blatnet, "Give us money if you love Jesus," commercials.

As for Christian rock, I was into it for awhile but I grew out of it.

I've heard that the German Techo/Goth band E Nomine is a christian band. If so then they are only religous band that doesn't suck.

Now THAT'S what I'd like to hear more of... Christian techno/industrial.

I do agree with those who say that no one's being real innovative in Christian rock, it sounds like a cheap knockoff of secular rock. P.O.D. and mxpx are some of the few exceptions.

With the exception of actually *composed* music, like Bach, christian (or any religious) music rarely turns out well.

But then again I'm an elitist snob who thinks most rock and pop is absolute shit anyway. Especially whatever it is you listen to. :p

I've never heard Christian rock. Maybe the bands are trying to appeal to a group that doesn't normally listen to rock, and so they feel they have to tone it down? Or maybe they're trying to package something normally not considered hip in a "cool" way? You might have the same result with Science rock, or Legal rock.

I didn't mean to suggest that the line about Jesus made it a Christian rock song - the song's Christian throughout; that was just an example. ;)

The full lyrics are:

Oh, my bad.

it's true that slayer does mention religion a lot in their songs, but if you ever see an interview they admit that they don't follow what they sing about.

the bassist from slayer is catholic though, but he's said that the only reason they write song titles like "god hates us all", "south of heaven", "reign in blood", etc. is because they are awesome song titles, and they are fuckin awesome song titles.
if that's what you call 'christian rock', i'll :headbang: to that anyday over sissy lyrics like 'i love god' or 'jesus is my savior' sung in pop music fashion

I was kidding.

But you're right, it's Tom Araya, not King or Hanneman.

Christian punk? Rebelling against the man with Jesus!
Unblack metal just sounds stupid. "We're metal, but we love jeeeesssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuussssss"

I'm fairly certain the members of those bands don't call their music unblack metal. The term comes from the highly anti-christian and pagan aspects of black metal lyrics, therefore applying christianity to black metal isn't "real" black metal, or so the reasoning goes.

I've never heard Christian rock. Maybe the bands are trying to appeal to a group that doesn't normally listen to rock, and so they feel they have to tone it down? Or maybe they're trying to package something normally not considered hip in a "cool" way? You might have the same result with Science rock, or Legal rock.

"The Elements" by Tom Lehrer set to a shredding guitar would be awesome.

It's rarely innovative music, typically just embracing previously existing conventions and blending it with religious lyrics. It sounds cheap and prepackaged, and dare I say it? Bubblegum.

It would be another thing if a Christian group were to enter truly groundbreaking musical territory. If they were able to entirely redefine the genre in which they exist. But so far they haven't, and in my humble opinion that has seriously hurt the industry.

This is exactly it. Christian rock is almost all about imitation, not innovation.

Not all Christian rock is bad. Depending on your definition of Christian Rock

Like the label Tooth and Nail Records is technically Christian Rock but most of the bands barely speak about Christian lyrics and are actually quite good (if you like punk)

Also Christian Punk can work according to the wiki it works because they reject organized Christianity and tell people to find their own personal Jesus.

Random bands I like that are technically Christian:
MxPx, Classic Crime, and Sullivan

Other notable bands:
Creed, Lifehouse, Hawk Nelson, P.O.D., Relient K, Switchfoot,

Because Rock'N'Roll is the music of kids angry about the shit we get fed every day. Christianity is part and parcel of the shit we get fed every day. Christian rockers are basically old man music set to a more modern sound. They sound silly.

And, yeah, Christian Punk sucks. Find me one Christian "punk" band that actually deserved the title of Punk. MxPx is just another Good Charolette. Honestly, with shit like "Move To Bremerton" or even "Teenage Politics" they have basically no claim to Punk.

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.
I'm guessing it's another Zark the Nark musical troll thread :eek:

I would like examples of sucky Christian rock.

as far as the imitation.......all music is basically imitating someone else, there is no new music, and even when something is remotely new it's old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM

I would like examples of sucky Christian rock.


I'd like an example of good Christian Rock. I certainly can't think of any.

As for your examples? Creed, Reliant K, and MxPX.

Not all Christian rock is bad. Depending on your definition of Christian Rock

Like the label Tooth and Nail Records is technically Christian Rock but most of the bands barely speak about Christian lyrics and are actually quite good (if you like punk)

Also Christian Punk can work according to the wiki it works because they reject organized Christianity and tell people to find their own personal Jesus.

Random bands I like that are technically Christian:
MxPx, Classic Crime, and Sullivan

Other notable bands:
Creed, Lifehouse, Hawk Nelson, P.O.D., Relient K, Switchfoot,

You sir have good taste.

I'd like an example of good Christian Rock. I certainly can't think of any.

As for your examples? Creed, Reliant K, and MxPX.

I don't like any rap, does that mean it all sucks and the people who make it suck and the people who listen to it suck?

also, there are a few bands that I like, and I don't exclusively listen to Christian music, I listen to just about everything but rap.

I tend to like songs over bands mostly anyway.

Meh Christian Rock isn't that bad. There are certainly much worse forms of "music (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=44f7BewqNqA)" out there.

I don't like any rap, does that mean it all sucks and the people who make it suck and the people who listen to it suck?

Yes… yes it does… :D

P.S. j/k

I don't like any rap, does that mean it all sucks and the people who make it suck and the people who listen to it suck?

The difference between Christian Rock and Rap for me is that there actually is some Rap that I like (older stuff, and more intellectual stuff, like MC Lars). I've never heard a Christian Rock piece that I liked. To be fair, I also avoid the stuff like the plague these days. At any rate, I think that Christian Rock sucks, but do the people who listen to it suck? Depends on the person. Do the people who make it suck? Yeah, probably.

Don't get me wrong, there is good Christian Music out there, but it ain't modern.

Creed are a terrible, terrible band.

Well in my opinion anyway.

:cool:

The difference between Christian Rock and Rap for me is that there actually is some Rap that I like (older stuff, and more intellectual stuff, like MC Lars). I've never heard a Christian Rock piece that I liked. To be fair, I also avoid the stuff like the plague these days. At any rate, I think that Christian Rock sucks, but do the people who listen to it suck? Depends on the person. Do the people who make it suck? Yeah, probably.

Don't get me wrong, there is good Christian Music out there, but it ain't modern.

I haven't heard any good punk come out since about 1987. That doesn't mean all punk sucks.

I don't like any rap, I can't avoid it, or wasn't able previously when I worked at a rap radio station. I listened to a lot of it and didn't find any that I could stomach.

I am 90% sure most of the people in the thread have listened to one or two bands and didn't like them and have decided that the whole of Christian music sucks. If I were to do that......if I were to listen to say Good Charlotte and Sum 41 and decide that all rock sucked.....I am pretty sure a lot of you would be pissed.

I haven't heard any good punk come out since about 1987. That doesn't mean all punk sucks.

I don't like any rap, I can't avoid it, or wasn't able previously when I worked at a rap radio station. I listened to a lot of it and didn't find any that I could stomach.

I am 90% sure most of the people in the thread have listened to one or two bands and didn't like them and have decided that the whole of Christian music sucks. If I were to do that......if I were to listen to say Good Charlotte and Sum 41 and decide that all rock sucked.....I am pretty sure a lot of you would be pissed.

Can I ask you for some examples of good Christian Rock?

Creed are a terrible, terrible band.

Well in my opinion anyway.

:cool:

Creed sucks. Creed is not a Christian band. If Creed sucking means that their whole genre sucks, you are looking at the wrong genre.....you need to be looking at rock.

I'm not a big fan of Christian rock, but then again, I'm not a big fan of rock in general. Don't get me wrong. When the young baristas at my laundromat put on the Ramones, I'm beating on the brat with the best of them, but most of the rock coming out of the radio sucks.

Same for Christian metal and rap, or any other music for that matter. The enjoyment, or lack of it, comes from the artistry and craft of the music and lyrics, not about the spiritual context of the lyrics.

There are musical styles or genres that are exclusively Christian, like gospel or liturgical chanting. I really like those. Hildegard of Bingen for the win.

I haven't heard any good punk come out since about 1987. That doesn't mean all punk sucks.

Gee, only all of Bad Religion's best albums (the trinity was released from 1988 to 1990), Anti-Flag, Against Me!, Good Clean Fun, Choking Victim, and a whole slew of other bands. Just because you aren't listening to them doesn't mean that they aren't there.

I am 90% sure most of the people in the thread have listened to one or two bands and didn't like them and have decided that the whole of Christian music sucks. If I were to do that......if I were to listen to say Good Charlotte and Sum 41 and decide that all rock sucked.....I am pretty sure a lot of you would be pissed.

Look, I grew up in a Suburban town where the two big music scenes were Christian Rock and Emo. Some of my best friends were really into Christian Rock. I've been to my fair share of concerts. I don't like it. The Cognitive Dissonance is bad enough, but the lyrics just make me feel ill.

Can I ask you for some examples of good Christian Rock?

good music is subjective

I like this (http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2016957806) song.

Gee, only all of Bad Religion's best albums (the trinity was released from 1988 to 1990), Anti-Flag, Against Me!, Good Clean Fun, Choking Victim, and a whole slew of other bands. Just because you aren't listening to them doesn't mean that they aren't there.
Bad religion is not good punk.

music I suppose is pretty subjective, especially if you are going to tell me that there is anything good about Anti-Flag.


Look, I grew up in a Suburban town where the two big music scenes were Christian Rock and Emo. Some of my best friends were really into Christian Rock. I've been to my fair share of concerts. I don't like it. The Cognitive Dissonance is bad enough, but the lyrics just make me feel ill.
so, you have heard some mainstream Christian rock. good for you.

I have decided that Sum41 represents all of rock music, so I don't like any of it anymore.

Demon hunter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXeujyJbtRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCoih1G9_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgFqL3fmLgg


Kutless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tncRm8WCVdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7Nb1CnaqDw


sanctus real
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqqDzJuYPpI

Bad religion is not good punk.

music I suppose is pretty subjective, especially if you are going to tell me that there is anything good about Anti-Flag.

Don't give me the Bad Religion is not good Punk nonsense. In the past, you've said that you liked Grey Race (which, coincidentally, came out in 1996).

And, frankly, Anti-Flag beats the shit out of any of the Christian Rock I have ever heard.



so, you have heard some mainstream Christian rock. good for you.

I have decided that Sum41 represents all of rock music, so I don't like any of it anymore.

And underground (but local) stuff. To be blunt, it was worse. But, yes, I did get dragged off to a couple larger shows. One of them was this crappy Rap/Rock group whose only song I remember was some song about being a Jesus Freak (their words not mine). The other was just straight rock. They weren't bad, they were just boring.

I'm guessing it's another Zark the Nark musical troll thread :eek:

Guess it's another trollish semi-flame from Curious Inquiry!

Come on, Zark the Nark? You didn't even abbreviate my name right...

Don't give me the Bad Religion is not good Punk nonsense. In the past, you've said that you liked Grey Race (which, coincidentally, came out in 1996).

And, frankly, Anti-Flag beats the shit out of any of the Christian Rock I have ever heard.

you must have me confused with someone else because I don't like Grey Race.

Anti-Flag sucks.

Gee, only all of Bad Religion's best albums (the trinity was released from 1988 to 1990), Anti-Flag, Against Me!, Good Clean Fun, Choking Victim, and a whole slew of other bands. Just because you aren't listening to them doesn't mean that they aren't there

So a bunch of loud screamy ranters with irritating politics is good punk? (Sorry but, I've heard a lot of that lot and found it utterly uninspiring. BR are OK but that's your lot from that little crew).

*Goes back to Ian Dury*

oh and some christian rap:

lecrae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaTXRaSvq-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REwhU5t1cyQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlkU8BW2cnA


Grits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOb8c8Mddzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF5u3T816Jo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCHws0JzEU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFaR7NNidiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz3Ku6uEAtk

Cross Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nF66cBjeXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCvgBWNtH1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Vgk2sn5R8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4_HRhL4ekE

I mainly don't like Christian rock bands that only ever sing about Christianity. I don't want to hear about how much you love Jesus.

Also the reason why, generally, Christian rock sucks is because unlike almost every other genre, it hasn't ever produced a notable or significant innovative band. Since it's all immitation of other styles, it can only be at best mediocre. It seems that they are trying to show that "Christians can rock too!", rather then trying to be innovative.

Demon hunter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXeujyJbtRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCoih1G9_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgFqL3fmLgg

My personal taste doesn't like it, but that's more because I don't like Thrash Metal. The lyrics are, when they are comprehendable, not very good, but not as bad as some I've heard. I'd give these guys a 2.5/5. Not good, but I've definitely heard worse.


Kutless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tncRm8WCVdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7Nb1CnaqDw

I don't like them. Too nu-metal sounding. The lyrics are really bad. The second is absolutely shit. Christian Persecution complex at it's worst. Self Righteous crap. 1/5.


sanctus real
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqqDzJuYPpI

Pop. I really, really don't like this.

So a bunch of loud screamy ranters with irritating politics is good punk? (Sorry but, I've heard a lot of that lot and found it utterly uninspiring. BR are OK but that's your lot from that little crew).

*Goes back to Ian Dury*

Meh. I really don't give a fuck what you think. I've heard it all before from other mainstream types. Go back to your pop.

Meh. I really don't give a fuck what you think. I've heard it all before from other mainstream types. Go back to your pop.

you get pissy when someone doesn't like your specific brand o' music don't you?

you get pissy when someone doesn't like your specific brand o' music don't you?

I'm sure that is what you would like to think. More or less, anyone who thinks that Ian Dury is punk is smoking something far too strong. He's just another pop star. He can quibble over whether or not it's good as much as he likes, and I'll just ignore him, but, yes, screamy and overtly political punk is Punk, and it's stupid to say otherwise in an attempt to legitimize the illegitimate.

Meh. I really don't give a fuck what you think. I've heard it all before from other mainstream types. Go back to your pop.

Mainstream types? *grins*

Just 'cause I'm not some hardcore punk doesn't make me mainstream, just means I like LISTENING to my music. And if that music is mainstream, so be it, indie snobbery got boring when it turned out everyone else hated most of my music :p

I'm sure that is what you would like to think. More or less, anyone who thinks that Ian Dury is punk is smoking something far too strong. He's just another pop star. He can quibble over whether or not it's good as much as he likes, and I'll just ignore him, but, yes, screamy and overtly political punk is Punk, and it's stupid to say otherwise in an attempt to legitimize the illegitimate.

Ian Dury... Definitely political, definitely not following the crowd. So what else defines punk? Or does it HAVE to be thrashy? no need for spirit, just for big chords?

Ian Dury... Definitely political, definitely not following the crowd. So what else defines punk? Or does it HAVE to be thrashy? no need for spirit, just for big chords?

Look, if politics are enough, Phil Ochs was a punk and U2 is a hardcore band. Obviously there's something more to it than just politics.

Look, if politics are enough, Phil Ochs was a punk and U2 is a hardcore band. Obviously there's something more to it than just politics.

*shrugs* I define the genre a bit wider than you I guess.

Hardcore punk is the loud aggro stuff I don't get. I go for more sarcastic, subtle stuff (I don't QUITE count the Beautiful South but some of their stuff is in the ballpark).

I just don't diig the whole 'kids railing against the world' thing.

Guess it's another trollish semi-flame from Curious Inquiry!

Come on, Zark the Nark? You didn't even abbreviate my name right...
Yeah, but it rhymes ;) Why do you spend so much time posting in Mod, anyway? And if you subbed "Jews" for "christian rock music" wouldn't it be a troll? People have very strong emotions about music . . .

Ian Dury... Definitely political, definitely not following the crowd. So what else defines punk? Or does it HAVE to be thrashy? no need for spirit, just for big chords?

Punk music is a combination of lyrical content and music style.

Tom Lehrer, despite being political, is hardly a punk rocker.

Ian Dury... Definitely political, definitely not following the crowd. So what else defines punk? Or does it HAVE to be thrashy? no need for spirit, just for big chords?

Ian Dury's music wasn't particularly anti establishment, even if the politics was. It's usually classed as pub rock.

Yeah, but it rhymes ;) Why do you spend so much time posting in Mod, anyway? And if you subbed "Jews" for "christian rock music" wouldn't it be a troll? People have very strong emotions about music . . .

I've only spent the time lately because I'm waiting for a ruling on one thread (The "unpleasantness" one.)

Also, I couldn't care less about your trolling, flamebaiting, and unbelievably poor comparisons.

Punk music is a combination of lyrical content and music style.

Tom Lehrer, despite being political, is hardly a punk rocker.

Heh, point.

He's still awesome though.

(I tend to focus on attitude more than style though when defining genre which doesn't help in these arguments :p)

Music is an art form, its origins stem from the same tree, no matter what type of music you enjoy. Remember, just because you do not like it, doesn't mean its bad. There are many varieties of music out there, enough for everyone to have a favorite genre.


I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

*shrugs* I define the genre a bit wider than you I guess.

Hardcore punk is the loud aggro stuff I don't get. I go for more sarcastic, subtle stuff (I don't QUITE count the Beautiful South but some of their stuff is in the ballpark).

I just don't diig the whole 'kids railing against the world' thing.

Punk is, by it's nature, agressive music. That doesn't make it all hardcore, but Punk isn't calm and pleasant music. Elvis Costello is sarcastic, political, and anti-authority, but that doesn't make him a Punk either, does it?

It's an oxymoron.

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

The same way Christian Yoga sucks. :p

I guess it is from not realising that trying to act cool, without actually being cool, makes you look sillier.

It's not all bad. There's actually some good death metal and alternative out there.

I don't like the music that's labeled "Christian rock" because that's usually bubble-gummy pop crap. But I don't like secular bubble-gummy pop crap either.

Music is an art form, its origins stem from the same tree, no matter what type of music you enjoy. Remember, just because you do not like it, doesn't mean its bad. There are many varieties of music out there, enough for everyone to have a favorite genre.

You could, of couse, have simply stated that musical taste is subjective. It would have been shorter.

I would suggest it depends upon whether the music adheres to christian genre traits, or is just played and written by christians. The latter can be alright (Thrice for one), but the former tends to be awful.

Christian Rock just sounds watered down, it wants to sound tough and bad-ass, but it fails, miserably. Its like that scene from the South Park episode about Christian Rock. You know the band that Eric Cartman locks into the janitor closet. They were trying to sound tough and hard core, but they failed miserably, well it's the same way with the whole Christian Rock scene.

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

Flyleaf kick ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e4mMg2wpf8


There is no rule that says Christian rock has to suck - it's just most bands suck, Christian or otherwise.

And the lyrics lack tension. Seriously, most pop music isn't lyrically challenging, but good songs have tension in them, just like good poems. The handful of Christian rock songs I've heard are all about praising God, and the only times struggle is mentioned is in the sense that God's going to pull them through. Great songs of any type are about the personal struggle. Robert Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" is a thousand times more poignant than anything to come out of Christian rock that I've heard.

Maybe you need to listen to better Christian rock songs? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fNYEQYNjtg

Cos it has nothing to do with Christianity or Rock........

Cos it has nothing to do with Christianity or Rock........

Good music doesn't? That's true.

you can't have religion and mix it with music that is inspired by satan himself.

not that being inspired by satan is a bad thing. i see it as a good thing

I think pop has more roots with satan.

Something so crap can only be influenced by something made up.

I've only spent the time lately because I'm waiting for a ruling on one thread (The "unpleasantness" one.)

Also, I couldn't care less about your trolling, flamebaiting, and unbelievably poor comparisons.I did a little researching, to have a definition and some numbers :D
Trolling: Posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). While Trolls often make these posts strictly in an attempt to provoke negative comment, it is still trolling even if you actually hold those beliefs. Intent is difficult to prove over the internet, so mods will work under their best assumptions.

Note that posts of opinions you disagree with does not automatically equate with trolling. Disagreements are expected, as long as they are done in a civil manner. Max Barry has made it clear that he welcomes all opinions in civil debate, even those that are highly unpopular or minority-held. Make your case without the invective, if you want to avoid banishment as a Troll.

Trolling is also is used to refer to making obviously silly topics that people nonetheless will reply to, despite all common sense. Don't feed the trolls.

According to this definition, I believe that your "I hate (popular band)" and "(musical genre) sucks" threads are trolling. It's not my call, since I'm not a Mod, but it is my opinion.

As for "Zark the Nark," member in good standing of the self-appointed Forum Police, here's some numbers, for comparison's sake. All dates are for 1st post in Mod, not join date.
Zarakon, since 30 Dec 06 (6 months): 82 posts, 36 threads in Moderation.
JuNii, since 05 Sep 06 (10 months): 100 posts, 43 threads in Moderation.
Fassigen, since 29 Oct 06 (8 months): 52 posts, 35 threads in Moderation.
Il Ruffino, since 31 Oct 05 (20 months): 50 posts, 10 threads in Moderation.
Whereyouthinkyougoing, since 08 Mar 06 (16 months): 65 posts, 28 threads in Moderation.
Curious Inquiry, since 20 Aug 06 (11 months): 17 posts, 2 threads in Moderation.

I personally feel like our moderators do a wonderful job, all on their own, without anyone pointing fingers. However, I do recognize that there is a certain self-gratification to be found in pretending to be a Mod, and, in fact, the "How to Become a Mod" thread seems to encourage it. So, /shrug, have fun, but don't be surprised if you earn yourself a cute 'lil nickname :)

I can't pick a poll option, because the only thing that truly "makes it suck" is you, in your opinon.

Christianity, like communism, is a red herring.


What makes christian rock music so bad?


There's yer problem.

**dons kevlar and assumes the fetal position**

Christian rock music doesn't suck.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Frail_words_collapse.JPG

Bitches.

I think music that pushes to hard to get any message across (religious, political, social) loses it's artistry and becomes like some kind of bad essay set to a melody. However, I've heard Christian bands (eg: The Hidden Cameras) that actually have a unique sound that I can appreciate. I just can't relate to the lyrics, so I don't really listen to them.

General feel. When you see those Christian rock CD commercials at first it sounds okay but if you listen you start kind of not to like it. It sounds aalmost like a regular song that you would here on the radio at first but it goes down hill from there.

Satan, of course.

Everything. The idea of it is just wrong.

Ya. The point of Rock Music is rebellion against the system. Religion is the system.

Talk about your freakin' rebels without a cause. Rebelling against independence and freedom. It's absurd. It's like telling teenage guys "you know what's really sexy? Not having sex until you're married. The Chics just can't resist an uptight dork who does everything his Mommy and Daddy tell him."

One of the guitarists for Slayer, I forget which one (The skinnier one), is Christian.

Tom Araya - bassist/vocalist - claims to be catholic, but obviously not from the religious reich segment. Lombardo, the drummer, is also Christian I believe.

Why is it so bad? I hardly see why one would need to continue with this, it's already been pointed out a fair number of times that it just isn't innovative. The chord progressions are mundane at best, time is always simple, lyrics are uninspired/bland. Granted I'm saying a lot of this from the perspective of a Jazz Major in college, but it's still true. It's not like rock has never had an interesting sound, I've heard plenty of good rock.

Now here's the kicker: you know why people still listen to it? Allow me to refresh your memory:

The chord progressions are mundane at best, time is always simple, lyrics are uninspired/bland.

The unfortunate truth is that people don't like to think all that much, and that (believe it or not) is why cookie-cutter pop music does so much better than music of a more stimulating style. Everyone I've known who has actually listened to jazz (not that Kenny G bullshit either) like John Coltrane, Wynton Marsalis, etc. has told me that it makes them dizzy/they just flat-out don't get it, it's just too far over their heads to comprehend.

Anyway, that's my two cents for the time being.

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention something: what's with all these people saying that "rock is about sticking it to the man"? The vast majority of rock that I've listened to is way the hell more than that. Is jazz about sitting in a dimly-lit lounge smoking cigars and drinking martinis? Not when last I checked.

One can't claim that an entire genre is about one thing or another, genre applies far more to style/instrumentation than message. Wynton Marsalis (looking at jazz again) wrote an entire three-hour musical about slavery, They Might Be Giants (one of my personal favorite rock groups) have written songs of all kinds of different themes about social issues/values, educational stuff (to a minor extent anyway), and sometimes complete nonsense.

In short, genre = style, song/lyrics = message.

The Domain of Satan Rule:

Any attempts at a Christian Role-Playing Game (and Rock Music, or anything else for that matter) invariably fail.

I just don't like when religion-- especially one with a rap sheet like Christianity, which has been manipulated and misused for so much genuinely evil stuff-- which should be somber and deeply personal and contemplative, gets 'charismatic' and tries to align its image with popular culture in order to grow the flock. I've been to a couple of lectures and presentations put on by my partner's church (events that invited and were attended by plenty of seculars) and they open the event with some Christian rock type music and encourage everyone to clap or sing along, and I always get this creepy "they're trying to lull us into unconsidered, mindless compliance with catchy beats." It's like, don't try to comprimise my mental or spiritual integrity by tweaking my central nervous system, please :-P

But that apprehension aside, like any and every other genre of music, there's plenty of it that I don't care for, but I have a handful of Christian rock songs on my iPod, alongside classical music, jazz, rock, rap, R&B, orchestral, movie and TV and game soundtrack songs. It really comes down the the individual merits of any given song, if I like how it sounds, if its lyrics appeal to me in some way, or if it makes me feel something worth feeling again.

I just don't like when religion-- especially one with a rap sheet like Christianity, which has been manipulated and misused for so much genuinely evil stuff-- which should be somber and deeply personal and contemplative, gets 'charismatic' and tries to align its image with popular culture in order to grow the flock.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Buddy_Christ.jpg

(Although, I really do prefer the hymns over this Christian Rock crap)

I cant add much that others haven't already mentioned, but every once in a while a Christian rock band does become popular. I remember Jars of Clay's song Flood used to be a big hit.

I think music that pushes to hard to get any message across (religious, political, social) loses it's artistry and becomes like some kind of bad essay set to a melody. However, I've heard Christian bands (eg: The Hidden Cameras) that actually have a unique sound that I can appreciate. I just can't relate to the lyrics, so I don't really listen to them.

Why do you have a vocalist at all if the vocals are just so much nonsense intended to make the whole ensemble sound better? Good guitarists are easier to find, and they can handle the role of playing melody just fine. There's no artistry at all in works where the lyrics have no point at all. Why have lyrics at all if you're going to waste them on nonsense about nothing of any real or staying value? Musicians aren't entertainers for you, you know? We're artists.

Forgive the snappish answer, but do you realize how insulting that kind of statement is?

Christian rock music doesn't suck.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Frail_words_collapse.JPG

Bitches.

Yay for boring genericore.

Why do you have a vocalist at all if the vocals are just so much nonsense intended to make the whole ensemble sound better? Good guitarists are easier to find, and they can handle the role of playing melody just fine. There's no artistry at all in works where the lyrics have no point at all. Why have lyrics at all if you're going to waste them on nonsense about nothing of any real or staying value? Musicians aren't entertainers for you, you know? We're artists.

Forgive the snappish answer, but do you realize how insulting that kind of statement is?Many vocalists would disagree with you there. And there are lots of songs that have gibberish lyrics, or ones that are difficult to understand, but where the vocalist's voice adds considerably to the composition. Enya is one example. I also like Kim Deal's voice a lot. And then there's prog rock legends, Focus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5InLw52U). Sorry, but most vocalists consider their voice to be their instrument. Or have I misunderstood your point?

Many vocalists would disagree with you there. And there are lots of songs that have gibberish lyrics, or ones that are difficult to understand, but where the vocalist's voice adds considerably to the composition. Enya is one example. I also like Kim Deal's voice a lot. And then there's prog rock legends, Focus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpV5InLw52U). Sorry, but most vocalists consider their voice to be their instrument. Or have I misunderstood your point?

Utterly and completely. My real point was that the assertion that vocals are only there to sound good, and, worst and more insulting, that to actually make a point with your lyrics is unartistic, is insulting, innacurate, and arrogant. It's another underhanded way of calling musicians entertainers and part of the "shut up and sing" mentality.

And you'll note I said "artistry", specifically. I'm dealing with the art, and not the performance itself.

Utterly and completely. My real point was that the assertion that vocals are only there to sound good, and, worst and more insulting, that to actually make a point with your lyrics is unartistic, is insulting, innacurate, and arrogant. It's another underhanded way of calling musicians entertainers and part of the "shut up and sing" mentality.

And you'll note I said "artistry", specifically. I'm dealing with the art, and not the performance itself.
Oh. I thought I might be missing your point. Vocal artistry does not lie in the meaning, or lack thereof, of the lyrics. Lyrics themselves may also have artistry, somewhat akin to poetry, where content is again neither neccessary nor sufficient to achieve artistry. "Entertainment" is another issue. Though often considered shallow, if I am deeply moved by the artistry of a piece, does it not count as entertaining me?

Oh. I thought I might be missing your point. Vocal artistry does not lie in the meaning, or lack thereof, of the lyrics. Lyrics themselves may also have artistry, somewhat akin to poetry, where content is again neither neccessary nor sufficient to achieve artistry. "Entertainment" is another issue. Though often considered shallow, if I am deeply moved by the artistry of a piece, does it not count as entertaining me?

Vocal performance is slightly different. The artistry in music is the art of the creation, not the presentation. The presentation can be entertainment, but to diminish the creative side: the lyrics and the songwriting, is an insult.

To call a songwriter just another entertainer is deeply, deeply insulting. It diminishes the work they do to just there to make other people happy, which isn't what art is about.

I did a little researching, to have a definition and some numbers :D


According to this definition, I believe that your "I hate (popular band)" and "(musical genre) sucks" threads are trolling. It's not my call, since I'm not a Mod, but it is my opinion.

As for "Zark the Nark," member in good standing of the self-appointed Forum Police, here's some numbers, for comparison's sake. All dates are for 1st post in Mod, not join date.
Zarakon, since 30 Dec 06 (6 months): 82 posts, 36 threads in Moderation.
JuNii, since 05 Sep 06 (10 months): 100 posts, 43 threads in Moderation.
Fassigen, since 29 Oct 06 (8 months): 52 posts, 35 threads in Moderation.
Il Ruffino, since 31 Oct 05 (20 months): 50 posts, 10 threads in Moderation.
Whereyouthinkyougoing, since 08 Mar 06 (16 months): 65 posts, 28 threads in Moderation.
Curious Inquiry, since 20 Aug 06 (11 months): 17 posts, 2 threads in Moderation.

I personally feel like our moderators do a wonderful job, all on their own, without anyone pointing fingers. However, I do recognize that there is a certain self-gratification to be found in pretending to be a Mod, and, in fact, the "How to Become a Mod" thread seems to encourage it. So, /shrug, have fun, but don't be surprised if you earn yourself a cute 'lil nickname :)

Oh, do me, do me. I love when people attack posters because they don't know how to attack their arguments.

I can be Joc the bloke, maybe? Or, um, Jocabia the Labia?

Or, you know, you can address the fallacies in his post if they exist instead of attacking him. But, hey, that's just me.

Oh, do me, do me. I love when people attack posters because they don't know how to attack their arguments.

I can be Joc the bloke, maybe? Or, um, Jocabia the Labia?

Or, you know, you can address the fallacies in his post if they exist instead of attacking him. But, hey, that's just me.
I think that some of Zarakon's musical threads, like this one, are trolling. The nickname refers to his habit of posting in Moderation, where, coincidentally, this is currently being addressed. I'm pretty sure I wasn't doing ad hominem, but I could be wrong.

I like the part where a good portion of the people feel that Christian music is bad because it is affiliated with religion...

i feel that its a form of propaganda. by using music whether its good or bad. some people may follow others will ridicule....

I think that some of Zarakon's musical threads, like this one, are trolling. The nickname refers to his habit of posting in Moderation, where, coincidentally, this is currently being addressed. I'm pretty sure I wasn't doing ad hominem, but I could be wrong.

When you dismiss his opinion as the opinion of a troll, yup, that's ad hominem, so there is no "could be" about it.

Meanwhile, entire posts designed just to personally attack someone is a recipe for disaster. You might trying continuing forward with an eye toward, you know, not doing that.

Personal preference.....Everyone has different tastes in music.:rolleyes:

I'm fine with some religious songs- either retelling of common religious stories (Christian, Jewish- or COMPLETELY different belief sets- Finnish mythology, Mayan beliefs, Hinduism, etc.). I think they're fascinating and I can really learn a lot about different cultures/ stories that were important to large groups of people. I usually listen to this in styles of music I prefer though.

The so-called "Christian Rock" I've heard at a church or two all just sound the same and generic to me. The lyrics seem quite repetitive and I (with absolutely no guitar training at all) could probably learn to play the songs in a matter of days.

If more of the stuff sounded more innovative/ my musical preferences, I'd definitely listen to it.

I'm fine with some religious songs- either retelling of common religious stories (Christian, Jewish- or COMPLETELY different belief sets- Finnish mythology, Mayan beliefs, Hinduism, etc.)

Oh yeah, I don't mind stuff like that.

Doesn't Avenged Sevenfold have a couple songs about Cain and Abel?

Why do you have a vocalist at all if the vocals are just so much nonsense intended to make the whole ensemble sound better? Good guitarists are easier to find, and they can handle the role of playing melody just fine. There's no artistry at all in works where the lyrics have no point at all. Why have lyrics at all if you're going to waste them on nonsense about nothing of any real or staying value? Musicians aren't entertainers for you, you know? We're artists.

Forgive the snappish answer, but do you realize how insulting that kind of statement is?

You appear to completely misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I am a musician and an artist. I don't think that lyrics should just be nonsensical and meant to make the rest of the song sound better. I mean to say that lyrics shouldn't try to broadcast some sort of loud political or religious belief. They should be personal, intimate reflections of the writers emotions. I'm a writer, and when I write poetry, every word means so much to me, but I'm never trying to achieve an end result with it. It's a way of saying exactly what I feel or see at any given moment, and people can take what they want from that. You should never write because you want to convert somebody to your beliefs. You should write because you have an emotion within you that cannot be expressed through normal means.

You appear to completely misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I am a musician and an artist. I don't think that lyrics should just be nonsensical and meant to make the rest of the song sound better. I mean to say that lyrics shouldn't try to broadcast some sort of loud political or religious belief. They should be personal, intimate reflections of the writers emotions. I'm a writer, and when I write poetry, every word means so much to me, but I'm never trying to achieve an end result with it. It's a way of saying exactly what I feel or see at any given moment, and people can take what they want from that. You should never write because you want to convert somebody to your beliefs. You should write because you have an emotion within you that cannot be expressed through normal means.

Really, that depends on what kind of music you're writing.

For example, death metal isn't really the appropriate forum for deep soul searching. I think the only punk band I've ever listened to with deep, emotional lyrics is Husker Du.

christians going into rock is just another fruitless attempt to convert today's youth.

Really, that depends on what kind of music you're writing.

For example, death metal isn't really the appropriate forum for deep soul searching. I think the only punk band I've ever listened to with deep, emotional lyrics is Husker Du.

Well, I'm not really familiar with that genre, I guess. The closest thing to Metal I listen to is Deftones, and the lyrics in that are definately very personal and emotional.

christians going into rock is just another fruitless attempt to convert today's youth.

That's not true.

I'm Catholic. I play rock. I'm not out to convert anyone. Considering the fact that pretty much everything I play is Dead Kennedys and Misfits covers, I don't think I'd be very successful anyway. :p

All the members of Black Sabbath were Christians, according to Ronnie James Dio, anyway. I'm pretty sure they weren't out to convert anyone to their faith.

All the members of Black Sabbath were Christians, according to Ronnie James Dio, anyway. I'm pretty sure they weren't out to convert anyone to their faith.

That actually doesn't surprise me very much.

But I'm guessing they were probably the "Twice a year" variety of Christian.

You appear to completely misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I am a musician and an artist. I don't think that lyrics should just be nonsensical and meant to make the rest of the song sound better. I mean to say that lyrics shouldn't try to broadcast some sort of loud political or religious belief. They should be personal, intimate reflections of the writers emotions. I'm a writer, and when I write poetry, every word means so much to me, but I'm never trying to achieve an end result with it. It's a way of saying exactly what I feel or see at any given moment, and people can take what they want from that. You should never write because you want to convert somebody to your beliefs. You should write because you have an emotion within you that cannot be expressed through normal means.


I disagree. A writer writes about what they know. Some of the best pieces of art in history have been political, social, and religious critiques. While you may be more involved in your emotional existence, I, as a lyricist, have little interest in my emotional existence. I am concerned with the society around me, and my actions and interactions within that. In my opinion, my emotions are, frankly, a waste of perfectly good paper to write on. Artists don't have to be the black-wearing, oh-my-emotional-life-is-reflected-in-this, steriotypes that the media has created. I don't write to change minds, but I don't mind if my work does change minds. I would certainly rather it did. In my experience, the other option seems to feed the far-too-well-fed world of love songs.