NationStates Jolt Archive

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old and I have never had a girlfriend. Now, I have had girls that were my friends, but whatever I do, I can never get out of the "friend zone". Nener, nothing, zip, nada.

So fellow NSers.


Why is that?


Is it my appearence?

Here is a pic of me
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52648824/

Is it my personality?


What is it?

NSers, please tell me!!!

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old and I have never had a girlfriend. Now, I have had girls that were my friends, but whatever I do, I can never get out of the "friend zone". Nener, nothing, zip, nada.

So fellow NSers.


Why is that?


Is it my appearence?

Here is a pic of me
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52648824/

Is it my personality?


What is it?

NSers, please tell me!!!

Dude, GET A BLOG!! =P

Dude, GET A BLOG!! =P

but then no one will read it

but then no one will read it

Link to it in ur sig, then. SOMEONE would.

Umm... how about the fact that you're FIFTEEN!!

Be patient. I had my first girlfriend at sixteen, and in all honesty the eye of retrospection sees that as entirely too young. I didn't understand my own emotions and what they could do to me (though of course at the time I thought I did), I got in way too deep, and it was just bad bad bad...

The worst part is that in a certain sense I got so involved with a girl because I felt like I was "supposed to," I felt like I had to move to that "stage," etc... and those are ALL THE WRONG REASONS.

If you like a girl, become friends with her and hang out... maybe hang out a lot. If it goes "somewhere," take it slow. If it doesn't, you should value the fact that you get to know women as human beings before your hormones completely take over.

Believe me, you and your relationships will be all the better for moving slow at this age.

(Later on, you can get into the "dating" scene where it may sometimes make sense to hook up for fun, sometimes to move fast, etc... but by then, you'll be older and hopefully wiser.)

I had a girlfriend once. I think that cured me of the whole "relationship" thing.

Dude, GET A BLOG!! =P

dude that hurt, it seriously hurt

I'm totally going to get this one confused with New Bretonia.

I'm totally going to get this one confused with New Bretonia.

huh?

It is better to have loved and lost then to never have loved at all.

No. You are much better off never loving.

No. You are much better off never loving.

Why?

I am fifteen years old

I think we have discovered the source of the problem.

I think we have discovered the source of the problem.

huh?

You're only fifteen. Chill.

Is it my appearence?
Is it my personality?
These things tend to be a combination of both. Though I tend to find that some of those with personalities that women don't find romantically attractive make quite good company.

And really, it's nothing worth getting upset over. Eventually, you'll either find some chick who can tolerate the idea of being with you (more than likely many chicks over the course of your life) or you'll come to the realization that, for the most part, relationships are one of the biggest waists of time and energy that exist, and you will come to cherish the freedom you have compared to your friends and acquaintances, freedom not only from responsibilities associated with your hypothetical significant other, but freedom from the depression and doubt which inevitably plague the vast majority of relationships.

dude that hurt, it seriously hurt

Maybe that's the reason. Who the hell get hurt by words? Honestly...

Relax and wait, seems to be all you can do. I'm sixteen, and I only know a couple guys with girlfriends, whereas most of the girls I know are going out with guys a year or two older then them. *Shrugs*

Why?

Love almost without fail turns out to be a massive waste of time and money, not to mention an inevitable disappointment characterized by strife and conflict in between.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Find out the hard way.

You're only fifteen. Chill.

These things tend to be a combination of both. Though I tend to find that some of those with personalities that women don't find romantically attractive make quite good company.

And really, it's nothing worth getting upset over. Eventually, you'll either find some chick who can tolerate the idea of being with you (more than likely many chicks over the course of your life) or you'll come to the realization that, for the most part, relationships are one of the biggest waists of time and energy that exist, and you will come to cherish the freedom you have compared to your friends and acquaintances, freedom not only from responsibilities associated with your hypothetical significant other, but freedom from the depression and doubt which inevitably plague the vast majority of relationships.

is there a woman that can tell if it is my appearence that is one of the problems?

is there a woman that can tell if it is my appearence that is one of the problems?

Couldn't hurt to cut your hair.

is there a woman that can tell if it is my appearence that is one of the problems?

No.

Another edition of unwanted answers to questions that shall never be answered.

Seriously, you expect far to much from NSG. As well, that picture is not very good. Can barely see your face.

Couldn't hurt to cut your hair.

i thought that people liked my half jewfro

No.

Another edition of unwanted answers to questions that shall never be answered.

Seriously, you expect far to much from NSG. As well, that picture is not very good. Can barely see your face.

huh?

I didn't get a relationship until I was 19, and half of the people who you think are in relationships at school etc really aren't. Trust me. You learn this later on. And even if some of them are, when you get to university it's a whole different ball game. But seriously, the web is not the place to find one! It's way too easy to pretend to be someone you aren't on here. However, I really hate to be the voice of reason, and I know it's tough when you think you're the only single one. You really aren't, but it does take a while. Most people cope in the interim by developing a wild crush on their teacher. Or best friend's girlfriend. Or best friend. There's a whole smorgesboard of options!

i thought that people liked my half jewfro

Honestly, it makes you look like a mophead and a hobo.

ok i'm tired

i'm going to sleep

huh?

I'm an ass. That should explain most of it.

Seriously, though, it's hard to see your face in the picture. It screams emo. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but it really isn't that great of a picture.

is there a woman that can tell if it is my appearence that is one of the problems?

most of them aren't pedophiles.

I'm almost 19 and still have never had a girlfriend...hell, I've scarcely even had female friends. :(

ok i'm tired

i'm going to sleep
You may as well, seeing as how you aren't going to listen to sensible advice and continue to fret about your appearance. Really, don't you have anything better to occupy your thoughts with?
I'm almost 19 and still have never had a girlfriend...hell, I've scarcely even had female friends. :(
See my above post skippy.

Ok, I'm not getting into a long debate here. The hair is fine and shall stay - someone will love it. Even emos get girls sometimes, if they can take time off from all that soul-searching and general annoying-ness, and I don't think the hair is emo. Appearance is rarely a factor - girls tend to prefer a funny guy to a good-looking one but there really is someone for everyone and once you leave school you stop thinking in appearance terms so much. Peer pressure makes it a much bigger thing than it is normally. Making friends - and staying friends - with girls helps. Trying to force friendships into relationships for the sake of having a relationship doesn't. Girls talk to each other and tell each other things so if they like you as a friend they may put in a good word for you. Or have friends you can get crushes on (see previous advice) Gods, I never thought I'd be typing all this... the agony aunt is leaving the building.

As a good rule of thumb, if you can't drive you can't date.

Appearance is rarely a factor - girls tend to prefer a funny guy to a good-looking one

I beg to differ. I mean really, you wouldn't date a hog even if she was the kindest, funniest, sweetest person in the world. What makes you think women are any different?
but there really is someone for everyone
lol

Be patient. I had my first girlfriend at sixteen, and in all honesty the eye of retrospection sees that as entirely too young. I didn't understand my own emotions and what they could do to me (though of course at the time I thought I did), I got in way too deep, and it was just bad bad bad...

I had a girlfriend once. I think that cured me of the whole "relationship" thing.

No. You are much better off never loving.

Love almost without fail turns out to be a massive waste of time and money, not to mention an inevitable disappointment characterized by strife and conflict in between.

I have absolutely no experience in this at all, but these guys have the same opinions I have. I'm not quite sure why. Usually I'm disinclined to learn from the mistakes of others but for some reason in this respect I can and will. You probably should too.

Anyway, it's shameless plu (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=530046)g time!

Yeah you know, I dunno.

I loved... lost. Loved a bit some more, lost. Then it was just sex. And lose.

And now here I sit, haven't gotten nookie in the Post-9/11 World (tm). Would it have been better to have never gotten any at all? I don't know. It doesn't really matter, if you're not having any, or if you had any but now don't... if you're the sort who can survive on memories the same way bears survive on their fat stores during hibernation, then it's better to have loved and lost. But if you're not, then it isn't. Get it while it's hot. Seize the day. Live every moment to it's fullest. Now is the time. It will never come again. Gather ye rosebuds while ye may! etc.

*explodes from to much cliched text* :D

Eh after having many failed relationships, and having women actually run away from me after one date (and I was a perfect gentlemen, seriously) I've given up on dating, relationship, hell even marriage. Trust me, if you want to be frustrated pretty much all the time, espically when it's that time of the month for her, then by all means go ahead and date. Let's face it, most of the woman for one reason or another don't want to have anything to do with me, and I don't see myself changing anytime soon, so whatever.

*explodes from to much cliched text* :D

...Don't take any wooden nickels!

i thought that people liked my half jewfro

Dudes like it, because dudes always think crazy hairstyles are wicked awesome. Girls, on the other hand... possibly not as much.

espically when it's that time of the month for her
:rolleyes:

I beg to differ. I mean really, you wouldn't date a hog even if she was the kindest, funniest, sweetest person in the world. What makes you think women are any different?

Boobies.

(Yeah, I know, and I apologize. But it had to be done.)

Yeah, I know, and I apologize. But it had to be done.
My friend, you've nothing to apologize for. You did the right thing.

Probably better to have never loved at all. Sure, you would never experience the joy of love, but you will also have never experienced the sorrow of lost love. The sorrow pretty much outweighs the joy. But, hell. What do I know. I've never loved at all. Sure, I'm almost eighteen and I'm still a virgin, but isn't that one of the reasons God invented the hand? Or the imagination? At least I don't have AIDS or STDs. Yeah, STDs are a chick repellent. So is AIDS. What girl would want AIDS or STDs? One whose brain is out of order.

Post Script: Can someone explain this smilie to me? :gundge: I don't get it. I understand smilieface, shooty face, shootyface Jr., confused face, one-finger salute face, angry face, kissie faces, winking face, etc., but not :gundge:.

but there really is someone for everyone

Nonsense.

and once you leave school you stop thinking in appearance terms so much.

Prove it.

Probably better to have never loved at all. Sure, you would never experience the joy of love, but you will also have never experienced the sorrow of lost love. The sorrow pretty much outweighs the joy. But, hell. What do I know. I've never loved at all. Sure, I'm almost eighteen and I'm still a virgin, but isn't that one of the reasons God invented the hand? Or the imagination? At least I don't have AIDS or STDs. Yeah, STDs are a chick repellent. So is AIDS. What girl would want AIDS or STDs? One whose brain is out of order.

Post Script: Can someone explain this smilie to me? :gundge: I don't get it. I understand smilieface, shooty face, shootyface Jr., confused face, one-finger salute face, angry face, kissie faces, winking face, etc., but not :gundge:.

:gundge:, but isn't that one of the reasons God invented the hand

I'd say it's your appearance. Personally, I'd try actually having a haircut that looks like you spend some time on it.:)

Oh, and it is better to have loved and lost. I could, were I not too tired, quote Keats at you here.

Umm... how about the fact that you're FIFTEEN!!

yeah. be patient little dude.

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old

Full stop.

You're fifteen. That's the explanation right there.

For some people, it takes a bit longer.

Just thought i'd add in that having a girlfriend does not equal love.

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old and I have never had a girlfriend. Now, I have had girls that were my friends, but whatever I do, I can never get out of the "friend zone". Nener, nothing, zip, nada.

So fellow NSers.


Why is that?


Is it my appearence?

Here is a pic of me
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52648824/

Is it my personality?


What is it?

NSers, please tell me!!!

it's not your appearance it's possibly your approach

most of the guys who ended up in the friend zone with me started out there, you like a girl flirt with her, you don't wanna flirt with her? she doesn't wanna date you. the end.

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old and I have never had a girlfriend. Now, I have had girls that were my friends, but whatever I do, I can never get out of the "friend zone". Nener, nothing, zip, nada.

So fellow NSers.


Why is that?


Is it my appearence?

Here is a pic of me
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52648824/

Is it my personality?


What is it?

NSers, please tell me!!!
Try to get a girl as a friend. Talk to them like you'd talk to a friend. Eventually, they'll consider you a friend. Remember, the word friend is part of girlfriend. But, beware the 'let's just be friends' zone.

EDIT: Or you can just be patient.

:gundge:, but isn't that one of the reasons God invented the hand

I still don't know what the f%$# :gundge: means. I know :) and :D mean happy. :upyours: means "Sir, I do not wish for you to cut me off again". :sniper: and :mp5: are celebrations of America's Second Amendment. :fluffle: means love. Okay, "love". What the hell does :gundge: mean?

As for the hand, God anticipated punching people in the face, tv remotes, video games, computers with which to access porno, and guns. God also anticipated Mankind's desire to salute one-another using just one finger, as demonstrated with this smilie: :upyours:.

Boobies.

(Yeah, I know, and I apologize. But it had to be done.)


www.manboobs.co.uk

I still don't know what the f%$# :gundge: means. I know :) and :D mean happy. :upyours: means "Sir, I do not wish for you to cut me off again". :sniper: and :mp5: are celebrations of America's Second Amendment. :fluffle: means love. Okay, "love". What the hell does :gundge: mean?

As for the hand, God anticipated punching people in the face, tv remotes, video games, computers with which to access porno, and guns. God also anticipated Mankind's desire to salute one-another using just one finger, as demonstrated with this smilie: :upyours:.

It's a bio-rifle.

http://www.ruination.eclipse.co.uk/unrealtech/images/weapons/biorifle.jpg

Perhaps you're too picky?

Or, it could be the whole age thing.

It's a bio-rifle.

http://www.ruination.eclipse.co.uk/unrealtech/images/weapons/biorifle.jpg

They expect people to know this stuff?

The cynicism in this thread is impressive.

There are those on here I suspect that are much older than you and have not had a relationship, myself included. I wouldn't worry about it. You are still young. If you get past 20 and still have not, maybe then reconsider what you are doing and whether you want to get involved in that way. Confidence seems to be more important than looks, from what I've seen.

As a fellow member of DeviantART, I would like to express my deep displeasure of you using the Self-portraits category for an image not even worthy of Myspace. You can't even see you, just the camera.

For shame. SHAME!!!!

much better. much much better.

I want to apologize, because I was veryuck last night and I was not living in the same philosophy that I created.

As a fellow member of DeviantART, I would like to express my deep displeasure of you using the Self-portraits category for an image not even worthy of Myspace. You can't even see you, just the camera.

For shame. SHAME!!!!

no comment

I want to apologize, because I was veryuck last night and I was not living in the same philosophy that I created.

the fuck?

the fuck?

I made a phiilosophy


"If you want it you gotta reach for it."

you can't just sit around whining, if you want something then you gotta reach for it. Well, I did not reach for it , I whined.



I am sorry to everyone for waisting your time

log off of nation states and never look back.

They expect people to know this stuff?

Maybe the British really love the Unreal series. I have no idea.

Holy Mackerel. :p

If I ever get bored enough to create a troll-nation, I'm going to start off with a thread "NO ONE LOVES ME!!!1" You know: "Help! I'm almost 12 years old and I don't have a girlfriend yet! What's wrong with me????? :sniper::sniper::sniper:" Oh yes, gun smilies galore.

:p

Holy Mackerel. :p

If I ever get bored enough to create a troll-nation, I'm going to start off with a thread "NO ONE LOVES ME!!!1" You know: "Help! I'm almost 12 years old and I don't have a girlfriend yet! What's wrong with me????? :sniper::sniper::sniper:" Oh yes, gun smilies galore.

:p

I've never used gun smileys before so here they come. :sniper::mp5::gundge::sniper::mp5:

I've never used gun smileys before so here they come.

Feels kinda good, in a corrupt kind of way. :p

Feels kinda good, in a corrupt kind of way. :p

Here are some more :gundge::sniper::mp5::gundge: Oh yeah, it does feel good!

*waves goodbye to the thread*

Here are some more :gundge::sniper::mp5::gundge: Oh yeah, it does feel good!

Simmer down now. :p You don't want to get over-excited. ;)

*waves goodbye to the thread*

*Sheds a single tear* :p

Dude, GET A BLOG!! =P

Or a life...

I was veryuck last night

... whuh?

As a fellow member of DeviantART, I would like to express my deep displeasure of you using the Self-portraits category for an image not even worthy of Myspace. You can't even see you, just the camera.

For shame. SHAME!!!!

We're used to that. The real problem, like you pointed out on DA itself, is that now everyone on this forum will think DA is some crap community blog.

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old and I have never had a girlfriend. Now, I have had girls that were my friends, but whatever I do, I can never get out of the "friend zone". Nener, nothing, zip, nada.

So fellow NSers.


Why is that?


Is it my appearence?

Here is a pic of me
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52648824/

Is it my personality?


What is it?

NSers, please tell me!!!

i really wouldn't be worrying about that at 15. i, however, am nearly 23 and suffer the same, except for a few drunken one night stands that i barely even remember consenting to.

We're used to that. The real problem, like you pointed out on DA itself, is that now everyone on this forum will think DA is some crap community blog.

I don't think DA is a crap community blog; I think it's one of the many furrie fronts on the internet.

i really wouldn't be worrying about that at 15. i, however, am nearly 23 and suffer the same, except for a few drunken one night stands that i barely even remember consenting to.From other things you've said this doesn't surprise me, but it is hard to believe.

It's better to hava loved and lost than never to have loved at all but that's not love you're talking about. That's fuckbuddiness and it doesn't really matter that much(well, some1's got to do it to keep the species alive but not necessarily you).

Holy Mackerel. :p

If I ever get bored enough to create a troll-nation, I'm going to start off with a thread "NO ONE LOVES ME!!!1" You know: "Help! I'm almost 12 years old and I don't have a girlfriend yet! What's wrong with me????? :sniper::sniper::sniper:" Oh yes, gun smilies galore.

:pmake sure you add that all the othert girls in your class have girlfriends - and they're allowed to drink! and your mum and dad never let you buy even a bottle of bucky...:rolleyes:

From other things you've said this doesn't surprise me, but it is hard to believe.

heh! it's definitely my personality then eh? :p ;)

heh! it's definitely my personality then eh? :p ;)I guess it must be, yeah. :)

. . . then to never have loved at all.

Well, I fall under the latter category. Yes, I am fifteen years old and I have never had a girlfriend. Now, I have had girls that were my friends, but whatever I do, I can never get out of the "friend zone". Nener, nothing, zip, nada.

So fellow NSers.


Why is that?
Because you look and sound like the gay best friend, instead of someone who's interested in a proper relationship and all of that.

make sure you add that all the othert girls in your class have girlfriends - and they're allowed to drink! and your mum and dad never let you buy even a bottle of bucky...:rolleyes:
*irrelevance*

Oh my god! Bucky!

Wish we could get that here in England... sad times :(

. .

Here is a pic of me
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/52648824/

Is it my personality?


What is it?

NSers, please tell me!!!

take a pic with a real (digital) camera. half your face is covered by your phone.

flip the lcd screed up so you can see it while you hold your camera down by your belly button. step back as far as you can and zoom in. crop the pic afterwards to remove the camera from the shot.

your hair is too feminine. consider getting it professionally cut in a style that makes you look more like boyfriend material.

i dont know how you dress but consider dressing slightly "hip" (but not as cool as the coolest guys dress or you will look like an idiot wannabe) if youre not sure what "hip" is, analyse the clothing of the guys that your girls find attractive.

stop worrying about it. nothing is less attractive than desperation. NOTHING. when you are secure with who you are (and no, hairstyle and clothing does not define who you are) girls will find you more attractive.

I Hereby LAWL at thıs thread.

It is better to have loved and lost than listen to an album by Olivia Newton John
:D

Or a life...

oh, but he's already here. Any hope for that is virtually lost until college. :p

It's your appearence.

I have several points that you are going to want to memorize.

Number one, most important, do not ever forget this…
You do not have a girlfriend because you are the kind of guy who whines about not having a girlfriend. Stop it. Just stop it. You are putting yourself in the least attractive kind of mindset. At best you might get some pity (but not even a pity fuck – maybe a pity kiss on the cheek). You may pretend in front of the girls that you are not the kind of guy who moans and complains on the internet about not having a girlfriend, but that kind of mental stink follows you around. People can sense your view of yourself – what you are inside is broadcast by your body language, tone of voice, manner of speaking, etc. I know this won’t stop you from whining, but it had to be said.

After that, there is the fact that you are 15. holy crap… you are in no way ready for a relationship anyway. All you want is what every teenager wants – validation. A feeling that someone understands, respects, and accepts you. That and some nookie. As I recall my teenage years… mostly the nookie. You do not want a relationship nor are you even capable of having a meaningful relationship anyway – wait until you have grown (I mean mentally and emotionally, not physically. This might take some time... maybe even a decade), are secure in who you are, and then you can try finding someone with whom you mesh.

Your little hormones are telling you to find a girl and breed like bunnies. I know, I understand, we were all there ourselves once upon a time. Yeah yeah, you say ‘but no, I'm not like that, I want a sweet cuddly warm fuzzies meeting of the souls thing’ but bullshit. You want a girl to snog and fondle. You might even be able to lie to yourself, but trust me – snog and fondle (or bouncy bouncy squishy squishy if you can get it - yes, absolutely ludicrous term… but that’s why I'm using it).

Just let what happens happen. You are really sexually frustrated right now, so just go masturbate and swear off women. Make yourself a promise that you will stay a virgin until university – that way there is no pressure and that stink of desperation will evaporate. I hesitate to say it… but if a woman is chasing you, don’t run too hard. I hesitate because thinking about that little escape clause will ruin your anti-desperate deodorant.

Be just friends – and do not, under any circumstances, be a “Nice Guy”. Nice Guys are the kind that pretend to be really nice in the hopes that they will get laid. Do not do this – see aforementioned virginity pledge. Promise yourself that you will never hook up with a female friend (but actually keep this one) – trust me on this and repeat that mantra 3 times a day. It works wonders because they will, knowingly or not, lead you to hooking up with her friends. She will be more comfortable around you and give a stamp of approval which women will take note of.

‘Just friends’ is actually a really great place to be (so long as you are absolutely in no way a “Nice Guy”). You get a great friendship with some girls, which when you understand them as people will mold you into a great guy which will be highly desirable as an adult. Female friends help you grow and develop into a much better person – so embrace the friendship but do not try to embrace them.

Just get to know girls as people – not as girls. Yeah, yeah, stop protesting. You’re a horny teenage guy; spin all the bullshit you want, nobody is buying it but you.

I whined about not having a girl myself, and those were the worst years of my life precisely because of it. Stop whining, start just living life and accepting things as they come. I knew that most ‘relationships’ people have as teenagers are total bullshit – so don’t bother. Have friends. Hook up with random girls at parties. Whatever, just don’t try for a relationship – the real relationships will hit you out of nowhere when you least expect it.

Teenage relationships are drama filled garbage full of sound and fury signifying nothing. The only caveat is that perhaps, when you are 17, you should have one or two temporary relationships (no matter how much you convince yourself you will be together forever and your love is perfect, etc. etc. etc. its bullshit, you haven't even finally settled on who you are, much less who they are) just to give you the general idea so you can avoid some basic mistakes when you try a real one.

Wait until university. You will never have a better selection of amazing intelligent eligible mates as you will meet in university.

I very rarely have relationships. They should be reserved for someone with whom you mesh very well together – not just physically attracted to, but someone you really enjoy having a conversation with, someone you do not get tired of, when you do not think ‘ok, I even made you breakfast, now just go home’ the morning after. Until then, enjoy friend with benefits. Best of both worlds. Actually… remember to hold off on that till university – no FWB in high school. Be celibate – it isn't as hard as you think once you resolve yourself to it.

I have been in love with exactly 2 women (and gotten stuck in several relationships with women who were in love with me… bad situation. Have more moral courage than I, break up with them as soon as you can, do not dangle them along because you care enough not to want to break their hearts. It will happen eventually and the longer the relationship, the greater the damage). Both women left me with a broken heart when it just didn’t work out. I was absolutely miserable afterwards. I still would go back and do it all over again. Far better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all because both the joys of love and the sorrow of loss help mold you and shape you into the person you will become.

I am in a very good situation, despite not being in a relationship at the moment. I have lots of amazing friends (male and female) and share with them some wonderful times. While I would very much love a solid, emotionally significant, bond with someone(s) to share the rest of my life with, I still revel in friendships rather than try to force a relationship to happen.

This was about 4 times longer than I intended when I started, but so be it.
Learn from it, and it will serve you well.