NationStates Jolt Archive

The article ('http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/28/america/NA-GEN-US-Schools-Race.php')

Well, I lived through the decades of school busing, and integration plans, etc. I didn't think that it made a difference - but that's my personal experience.

I find it hard to believe, though, that you can somehow "arrive" at an equal distribution of people across a school district without recording and counting who is of what "race".

That being said, I find the definition of race in the US (the definitions the Federal government uses in particular) to be demeaning, inaccurate, and insulting.

I don't fit into any of their categories in a way that satisfies me, or is in any way accurate.

shorter supreme court: "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!!!!!!!!11!!"

shorter supreme court: "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!!!!!!!!11!!"

Well, you couldn't segregate either, because that would once more mean counting heads by race...

I don't get all of this? How is not counting race segregating?

I don't get all of this? How is not counting race segregating?

because certain actions have clear and obvious and easily determined outcomes. in this case, segregated schools.

Ok.

My legalese is rather limited.

Can somebody explain if Roberts violated his claims of following Stare Decisis?

I remember he seemed to utter that phrase about 60 bazillion times in his confirmation hearings.....

I love it when people try to classify my race. I'm %100 mongrel. The Irish side of my family came here some time in the late 1600's, upon which some great-to-the-nth grandfather married an Indian and had tons of kids.
The other side of my family apparently comes from pretty much everywhere in Europe, including southern Spain, Poland and the Balkans.
So, basically, I'm an Celtic-Anglo-Saxon-Franco-Germanic-Hispanic-Moor-Pole-Slav-Turko-Native-American.
Of course, all my teachers up until High School always said, "Whatever, just put 'caucasian' on the form." when it was test day.

I love it when people try to classify my race. I'm %100 mongrel. The Irish side of my family came here some time in the late 1600's, upon which some great-to-the-nth grandfather married an Indian and had tons of kids.
The other side of my family apparently comes from pretty much everywhere in Europe, including southern Spain, Poland and the Balkans.
So, basically, I'm an Celtic-Anglo-Saxon-Franco-Germanic-Hispanic-Moor-Pole-Slav-Turko-Native-American.
Of course, all my teachers up until High School always said, "Whatever, just put 'caucasian' on the form." when it was test day.

You're white, get over yourself.
Same with you DK.

Of course, all my teachers up until High School always said, "Whatever, just put 'caucasian' on the form." when it was test day.

Wait, you put your race on exam papers or something?

What on earth for?

Wait, you put your race on exam papers or something?

What on earth for?

No idea. But assuming DGNT is from the USA, they ask for our race on tests. For some reason they already know I'm a white 15 year old female and they know my social security number and the first 5 letters of my middle name. I have no idea why.

No idea. But assuming DGNT is from the USA, they ask for our race on tests. For some reason they already know I'm a white 15 year old female and they know my social security number and the first 5 letters of my middle name. I have no idea why.

Wow, OK. That seems odd. We just wrote our name or a candidate number (which was the same across all exam boards). I'm sure they could've cross-referenced if they wanted, but I doubt the marker could've found out any personal info.
Hang on, doesn't that open it up to prejudice, because the person marking the test knows your race so could (sub)consciously use it to affect the results?

Also, we don't even get a National Insurance Number until just before we're 16, and our schools would never have needed it...

Wow, OK. That seems odd. We just wrote our name or a candidate number (which was the same across all exam boards). I'm sure they could've cross-referenced if they wanted, but I doubt the marker could've found out any personal info.
Hang on, doesn't that open it up to prejudice, because the person marking the test knows your race so could (sub)consciously use it to affect the results?

Also, we don't even get a National Insurance Number until just before we're 16, and our schools would never have needed it...

Yeah... it's weird. I can't think of any reason that my school would need my SSN, or my race. I don't even see why the State of North Carolina would really need my race. And I don't like people looking at my SSN, if you don't need it then you shouldn't have it.

I support the Supreme Court on this ruling, shipping kids to school outside of the district that they live in just for 'diversity' sake is stupid and inane, kids should be allowed to go to school in their district.

Yeah... it's weird. I can't think of any reason that my school would need my SSN, or my race. I don't even see why the State of North Carolina would really need my race. And I don't like people looking at my SSN, if you don't need it then you shouldn't have it.

It does sound strange.

I get unhappy about those "equal opportunities" forms you always have to fill in with job applications. I always want to claim I'm a black, Hindu lesbian from Latvia or something. Ruddy forms.

Ho hum.

No idea. But assuming DGNT is from the USA, they ask for our race on tests. For some reason they already know I'm a white 15 year old female and they know my social security number and the first 5 letters of my middle name. I have no idea why.

That's....insane.

No idea. But assuming DGNT is from the USA, they ask for our race on tests. For some reason they already know I'm a white 15 year old female and they know my social security number and the first 5 letters of my middle name. I have no idea why.

This was back in the 90's when I was in middle/elementary school and (we were told) the 'race' option on the test was manditory. I dont do it anymore.

Free Soviets already beat me to the Thurmond quote, so I'll have to settle for wondering what the majority was smoking, ignoring stare decisis regarding De Facto segregation.

Wait, you put your race on exam papers or something?

What on earth for?

the great idea that some genius came up with of reverse racism, aka "Affirmative action".

if its for college entrance exams its to help decide if you are worthy (minority) of getting to go to school for free or get a pretty good discount.

the great idea that some genius came up with of reverse racism, aka "Affirmative action".

if its for college entrance exams its to help decide if you are worthy (minority) of getting to go to school for free or get a pretty good discount.

Actually, I get free state college thanks to the official "Were sorry for killing most of you and stealing the land from the rest of you, oh, and killing all the buffalo." plan. The tribe I'm theoretically from didnt even know what buffalo were of course, but that doesnt really matter anyway :P

Apparently, the rationale is that prior decisions and the law prevent segregation, but not "de facto segregation," and that the crux of the law is that schools cannot engineer the racial makeup of schools, whether they want to make diverse schools or segregated ones.

Free Soviets already beat me to the Thurmond quote, so I'll have to settle for wondering what the majority was smoking, ignoring stare decisis regarding De Facto segregation.

The quote was Wallace, not Thurmond.

The quote was Wallace, not Thurmond.

Well there I go making an ass of myself again. I thought Thurmond said something much the same as well.

About time. I don't think any of you ever had the wonderful experience of walking to a school and waiting there for a bus to pick you up and drive you 30 minutes across town simply because of the color of your skin.

I did. It sucked. There was no added 'enrichment' to my experience as a kindergartener. I lost 1 hour per day of playtime for this little experience - not to mention the ludicrous costs of doing this. The next year my parents intentionally moved to a town which was too small to do that bullshit.

Of course - if there were free choice in education for the primary grades just as there is for college that never would have been a problem... But then - Public schools don't really WANT to give people a choice - regardles of skin color. They feel it is more fair to doom certain kids to a choice of a shitty school or paying their own way. The poorest kids get screwed because they cannot afford that choice. Nice.

I thought Thurmond said something much the same as well.

that's cause it seems like it should have been something thurmond said. like his campaign slogan when he ran for president.

Damn Dontgonearthere, you're a walking melting pot. Although looking at your ancenstry I'd classify you as white as your Turk and Native American are probably gone from your genes with all your mixing.

Yeah... it's weird. I can't think of any reason that my school would need my SSN, or my race. I don't even see why the State of North Carolina would really need my race. And I don't like people looking at my SSN, if you don't need it then you shouldn't have it.
race I can understand - I assume they want it for statistical purposes. How else are they going to know the differences (if any) between the racial groups re: exam results, pass/fails etc?

As for your SSN - it's a bit odd. Maybe they do it as a way of checking for illegal immigrants. I dunno.

I always get amused by the race question in some US forms. Of late, I see "South Asian" in some forms. In forms where there is no "South Asian" category, I was told to pick "Caucasian". :confused:

It is amazing what a little piece of govt paper can do for you.

I always get amused by the race question in some US forms. Of late, I see "South Asian" in some forms. In forms where there is no "South Asian" category, I was told to pick "Caucasian". :confused:
Why be confused? It has the word 'asian' in there!

Next time, write 'Jedi'

Why be confused? It has the word 'asian' in there!

Next time, write 'Jedi'

Apparently, only "Chinese" are "Asian", in the US. :confused:

About time. I don't think any of you ever had the wonderful experience of walking to a school and waiting there for a bus to pick you up and drive you 30 minutes across town simply because of the color of your skin.

I did. It sucked. There was no added 'enrichment' to my experience as a kindergartener. I lost 1 hour per day of playtime for this little experience - not to mention the ludicrous costs of doing this. The next year my parents intentionally moved to a town which was too small to do that bullshit.

Of course - if there were free choice in education for the primary grades just as there is for college that never would have been a problem... But then - Public schools don't really WANT to give people a choice - regardles of skin color. They feel it is more fair to doom certain kids to a choice of a shitty school or paying their own way. The poorest kids get screwed because they cannot afford that choice. Nice.

Not only that, but people forget that busing hurts the poor families. Poor families cannot afford to travel across town to make the PTA meetings, to tell the staff what they feel, etc. Of course, the so called public school system does not really care about parents at all; since they do not give us choices as to curriculum etc. And if you speak publicly against the school board, then they refer to you as an anti school activist.

Here in Wake Co NC, we have had some real nice issues with the year round school issues, in which parents were not given choices. We sued, we won.

Apparently, only "Chinese" are "Asian", in the US. :confused:

Eh. Indian's usually on there, at least on the forms I usually deal with. I guess you could've gone with Asian, if you wanted (your 'race' in the U.S. is defined either by what you identify as or by what your mother told the doctor when you were born) but Indians are never called asians here - it's its own sub-continent, after all. ;)

In Australia, you sometimes get a question "Are you Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander" on forms? The local natives in Australia were the last people to get a right to vote.

In Australia, you sometimes get a question "Are you Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander" on forms? The local natives in Australia were the last people to get a right to vote.

That sucks. Women were the last to get the vote here. Well, them and those aged 18-21, I believe. :p

That sucks. Women were the last to get the vote here. Well, them and those aged 18-21, I believe. :p

Women got the vote before local natives - so you were female and an Australian native, well ...

This sucks. I work in the school system, and majority-minority schools are less funded, use outdated books often, and can't keep good teachers. Our state changed things so that parents could have a choice of any school "within their zone". I hope that doesn't change.

ETA: I forgot to mention that it is only recently when they started adding in extra minority groups. Heck, some of those test don't even have "Biracial" on it.

The article ('http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/28/america/NA-GEN-US-Schools-Race.php')

Well, I lived through the decades of school busing, and integration plans, etc. I didn't think that it made a difference - but that's my personal experience.

I find it hard to believe, though, that you can somehow "arrive" at an equal distribution of people across a school district without recording and counting who is of what "race".

That being said, I find the definition of race in the US (the definitions the Federal government uses in particular) to be demeaning, inaccurate, and insulting.

I don't fit into any of their categories in a way that satisfies me, or is in any way accurate.

I agree. I always thought that school bussing business was one of those ideas that seemed good at the time and was important in the past but sort of makes an awkward and difficult practice once all the hubub died down. In practice, this made for some awfully long bus drives in a lot of traffic for these kids. Fortunatley, I was in a rural school district and did not experience these nightmares but even still I had a 45 minutes to an hour bus ride home from school which is an awful long period of time when you only live 4 or 5 miles away at most. Usually I walked home and beat or tied the bus. I have heard stories of city kids with 2 or 3 hour bus rides because of the liberal integrationist wackos. Nonethless, it probably seemed like a nice idea in theory at the time.

I fail to see why diversity should be a desirable end any more than segregation should be a desirable end.

I fail to see why diversity should be a desirable end any more than segregation should be a desirable end.

It makes certain subsets of people feel good, they're just different subsets than does segregation.

Same underpinning though, feel-good race distribution.

The funny thing is students form their own groups. Oddly enough the members of these groups have a lot in common, such as, race, religion, social, or economic backgrounds.