NationStates Jolt Archive

Not sure if there already is a thread about this story:

Turkey Rejects German Appeals to Release Student

Turkey has rejected direct appeals by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier to release a 17-year-old German student arrested for having sex with a 13-year-old girl. The case is attracting growing attention in Germany where politicians are warning it could hurt Turkey's bid to join the EU.

17-year-old student Marco Weiss has been in a Turkish jail for 10 weeks.
The Turkish government has refused an appeal from the German government to release a German teenager who has been held in a Turkish prison (more...)for 10 weeks on a charge of having intimate contact with a 13-year-old British girl while on holiday in the beach resort of Antalya.

...

Meanwhile Marco said in a newspaper interview that the girl, named only as Charlotte M., had said she was 15 and that they had met in the hotel disco.

They had spent time on the beach the second day and she had invited him up to her room on the third day. He said he wanted to sleep with her but ejaculated prematurely and wasn't able to.

He told Bild newspaper: "She had pulled down my underpants. I didn't touch her vagina."

He said the girl had looked angry when he left the room and gave him a strange look at breakfast the next day. The next day the police came and told him a legal complaint had been filed against him. He went to the prosecutor's office with his parents, and was then taken to a court and arrested.

"I was shocked when the police told me she's only 13. If I had known she's 13 I wouldn't have gone that far. I'm not a criminal," said Marco.

Linky (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,490860,00.html)

Personally, I'm not sure what to think of it... it wouldn't be the first time that sombody was incorrectly but intentionally accused of rape.
However, reading the details (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,490525,00.html) of what allegedly happened, I find it hard to believe that it can be called rape by any stretch of the imagination.

That doesn't mean that I agree with German government officials trying to influence the Turkish judical system.

why are they doing that they laws in germany that cover that and would have done the samething and so why stick their nose's into it

that poor German being exposed to a kids disco then spending a few days with one :eek:

He said he wanted to sleep with her but ejaculated prematurely and wasn't able to.

you put that in on purpose didn't you :D

why are they doing that they laws in germany that cover that and would have done the samething and so why stick their nose's into it

I honestly have no idea. Age of consent in Germany is 14, and statutory rape gets the same maximum sentence in both countries.
One possible point of concern might be that since she allegedly lied about her age and was close to age of consent (according to German law) anyway, he would probably not get te maximum sentence. Not sure how a Turkish court would see that.
And another possibility is that the German public does consider Turkey as a somewhat backward country (they don't exactly have a clean record where human right violations are concerned), raising concerns about the prison conditions...
But neither of those justify that kind of reaction, trying to diplomatically blackmail an independent country.

I think the girl should be charged, but the guy definitely shouldn't. It's not really his fault she lied about her age.

Plus, based on his account, it sounds like the police report was filed because she was pissed off.

It sounds like the german guy didn't do anything wrong, but if what he did is illegal in Turkey there's not an awful lot the German government can do. Except maybe try and get the Turkish authorities to agree to let him serve out his sentence in a German prison.

I honestly have no idea. Age of consent in Germany is 14, and statutory rape gets the same maximum sentence in both countries.
One possible point of concern might be that since she allegedly lied about her age and was close to age of consent (according to German law) anyway, he would probably not get te maximum sentence. Not sure how a Turkish court would see that.
And another possibility is that the German public does consider Turkey as a somewhat backward country (they don't exactly have a clean record where human right violations are concerned), raising concerns about the prison conditions...
But neither of those justify that kind of reaction, trying to diplomatically blackmail an independent country.

14 thats odd to me seeing it 16 here and the whole blackmailing thing sucks whats next pull the Poms into whole game as well ??

the poor boy already admitted internationally that he is a minute man. I think that is punishment enough.

I hope Germany uses this to never let Turkey in the EU. They can rot in the Middle East with their friends Iraq and Palestine.

14 thats odd to me seeing it 16 here and the whole blackmailing thing sucks whats next pull the Poms into whole game as well ??

He's 17, the girl was 13, but claimed she was 15...

I hope Germany uses this to never let Turkey in the EU. They can rot in the Middle East with their friends Iraq and Palestine.

:rolleyes:

He's 17, the girl was 13, but claimed she was 15...

she knows german laws by the looks of it and i think under british laws she still under age too but really don't know that one

she knows german laws by the looks of it and i think under british laws she still under age too but really don't know that one

The British age of consent is 16, so yes he'd have been charged with statutory rape.
As far as the reaction of the German government goes I suppose they're just doing what we'd all expect our own government to do in the circumstances, however he was in breach of Turkish law and as the old maxim goes 'ignorance of the law is no defence'

The British age of consent is 16, so yes he'd have been charged with statutory rape.
same consent age here in Australia

As far as the reaction of the German government goes I suppose they're just doing what we'd all expect our own government to do in the circumstances

haha you be lucky with our one

however he was in breach of Turkish law and as the old maxim goes 'ignorance of the law is no defence'

indeed

its a shame that the german boy got arrested for statutory rape.

but really, this is why there are statutory rape laws. i suppose you might be against the concept of statutory rape but you cant expect a legitimate case of it to be ignore by the authorities when it comes to their attention.

its a shame that the german boy got arrested for statutory rape.

but really, this is why there are statutory rape laws. i suppose you might be against the concept of statutory rape but you cant expect a legitimate case of it to be ignore by the authorities when it comes to their attention.

The question is, is it statutory rape if he never even got inside? Is touching considered statutory rape (although he even said he didn't touch her intimately, either)?

The question is, is it statutory rape if he never even got inside? Is touching considered statutory rape (although he even said he didn't touch her intimately, either)?

Edit: Yup me was wrong

Section 1: Rape

1. Section 1 makes it an offence for a person (A) intentionally to penetrate with his penis the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) without that person’s consent if A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

2. The section redefines the physical act of rape by including penile penetration of the mouth. The offence also covers surgically reconstructed genitalia, for example as a result of gender reassignment surgery.

3. Rape and rape of a child under 13 are the only offences in the Act which can only be committed by a man, because they relate to penile penetration.

4. This offence differs from the offence of rape in the Sexual Offences Act 1956 in that it requires that the defendant does not have a “reasonable belief” in consent, rather than that he does not have an “honest belief” in consent.

5. The offence is triable on indictment only and has a maximum penalty of life imprisonment

The question is, is it statutory rape if he never even got inside? Is touching considered statutory rape (although he even said he didn't touch her intimately, either)?

that will be decided in court eh?

that will be decided in court eh?

Er... not sure about that. I know the system in the US works like that, with courts deciding what is the law and what isn't. I'm not sure about Turkey, but in Germany courts only interpret existing laws. Laws are made by parliament.

Er... not sure about that. I know the system in the US works like that, with courts deciding what is the law and what isn't. I'm not sure about Turkey, but in Germany courts only interpret existing laws. Laws are made by parliament.

i would expect that in turkey the definition of statutory rape includes what happened with this couple.

in the modern age 16 is an unrealistically high age of consent. i personally think it should be 14--the typical age to start high school.

AND i think that in a case of statutory rape with circumstances like this, the parents should be liable for neglecting the welfare of their 13 year old daughter by allowing her enough freedom to end up in bed with a 17 year old.

Er... not sure about that. I know the system in the US works like that, with courts deciding what is the law and what isn't. I'm not sure about Turkey, but in Germany courts only interpret existing laws. Laws are made by parliament.

that's the same way the US works...hence "judicial" branch and not "legislative". Courts judge where an action falls within the bounds of the law: they do not create new laws.

that's the same way the US works...hence "judicial" branch and not "legislative". Courts judge where an action falls within the bounds of the law: they do not create new laws.

Ah, my mistake, then. I thought that court decisions in the US are treated as laws when deciding cases that weren't legislated before.

i would expect that in turkey the definition of statutory rape includes what happened with this couple.

in the modern age 16 is an unrealistically high age of consent. i personally think it should be 14--the typical age to start high school.

AND i think that in a case of statutory rape with circumstances like this, the parents should be liable for neglecting the welfare of their 13 year old daughter by allowing her enough freedom to end up in bed with a 17 year old.

As I understand, investigations are still ongoing. I guess nobody is quite sure yet what exactly happened, and if it is statutory rape or not.
I think the fact that the girl lied and led him to believe that she was above age of consent should at least be mitigating in this case...

I'd just like to say I don't like the spin the Spiegel puts on this story.

International policy should not be decided on the basis of anecdotes. They do that in the first paragraph.