NationStates Jolt Archive

I think this is the future. And I hope this, in the future, takes away the hold that software companies like microsoft has on the market.

I am going to try it sometime....

http://www.domain-b.com/infotech/itnews/2007/20070619_windows.html
Delhi programmers create 'Windows' on the Web
19 June 2007

Bangalore: A dozen creative young programmers at a Delhi-based start-up has announced the "world's first Windows-based online desktop." Called Nivio, it helps one to create a full-fledged, but entirely virtual, desktop of one's own — on the web.

The idea is that the applications we use on our desktop or laptop personal computers will all eventually migrate to the web, they say. Players like Google already offer their users the ability to create and save documents and presentations entirely through a browser. But it's still piece-meal and in driblets.

The trial version of the beta or advanced prototype offers the full Windows XP look and feel; 5 gigabytes of storage, and all the standard desktop features such as file back-up, virus and spam protection. The free bundle of software tools includes the ``OpenOffice'' suite, the Outlook Express email tool and the Internet Explorer browser. Also on offer are Acrobat 8 reader, iTunes and Winamp players, Yahoo Messenger, and for ``Open'' software lovers: the choice of a Mozilla/Firefox browser and the Foxit Reader.

User reaction to Nivio has been very positive. After a free-use period that might extend to year-end, Nivio will be offered on a monthly subscription of Rs399 — with a 50 per cent discount, says founder-CEO Duggal

``It's a whole new way of personal computing — but we are confident that we will have a million users in India alone by 2010,'' he said.

The beta version can be accessed at www.nivio.com after a registration procedure.

The company is a recent spin-off from the Delhi -based SMX Corporation, which operates web hosting and allied services through sister concerns in Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

The future is lag and having your personal files stored somewhere very far away instead of under your desk? No thanks.

I personally can't wait to move to web-based operating systems for the huge increase in convienence and added connectivity they provide over existing systems.

Let's see...

Storing my files on my computer where I can kep track of them vs somewhere else where any asshat with access can see/alter them?

I'll take the former. I'd rather have my stuff where I can control it, thank you.

Let's see...

Storing my files on my computer where I can kep track of them vs somewhere else where any asshat with access can see/alter them?

I'll take the former. I'd rather have my stuff where I can control it, thank you.

It's nice to see someone agrees with me. Although, Microsoft are slowly edging into that territory anyway.

Let's see...

Storing my files on my computer where I can kep track of them vs somewhere else where any asshat with access can see/alter them?


Any asshat can already get your files in your computer. :cool:

Well, not any asshat, but any motivated hacker..

Any asshat can already get your files in your computer. :cool:

Well, not any asshat, but any motivated hacker..

I could pull the wireless connection dongle out. Let's see you hack my computer then :p

It's nice to see someone agrees with me. Although, Microsoft are slowly edging into that territory anyway.

It's too bad about that...

Ah well. I'll just get my next computer hacked and fix that.

I could pull the wireless connection dongle out. Let's see you hack my computer then :p

I am not going to put up my private stuff online either..

But I quite like the idea of having a virtual desktop. Gives me mobility. I don't have to carry my laptop around everywhere I go. I can be in Seattle, Miami, India...anywhere and can still do my work.

Any asshat can already get your files in your computer. :cool:

Well, not any asshat, but any motivated hacker..

I can cut the cord/keep my files on an external disc/etc.

These overly trusting people won't be able to.

I am not going to put up my private stuff online either..

But I quite like the idea of having a virtual desktop. Gives me mobility. I don't have to carry my laptop around everywhere I go. I can be in Seattle, Miami, India...anywhere and can still do my work.

That's true. It would be nice to not have to spend months tweaking everything back to the way I like it everytime I change computers.

I remember an old program called Windows Briefcase. Somehow, that allowed you to access some stuff from other computers... but I forget how that worked.

I can cut the cord/keep my files on an external disc/etc.

These overly trusting people won't be able to.

Why would you cut the cord instead of simply unplugging? Seems... overly destructive to me.

Why would you cut the cord instead of simply unplugging? Seems... overly destructive to me.

It was idiomatic language. :mad:

Why would you cut the cord instead of simply unplugging? Seems... overly destructive to me.

It's more dramatic.

Oh, you have virtual PC of your own on someone else's server ... why?

All they are doing is running a terminal server without the nasty restrictions of a normal terminal server.

That's true. It would be nice to not have to spend months tweaking everything back to the way I like it everytime I change computers.

I see a lot of potential for those who can't afford PCs (like students in developing and poor countries) to have their own "computers".

For ex, an hour in a netcafe in India used to be Rs 25 (half a dollar). A 400 Rs subscription would be 10 dollars. That's pretty cheap even by Indian standards to have a "computer" (a decent comp costs Rs30,000 in India). If this thing develops and there are competitors bringing down the cost and improving the functionality in terms of programs that you can install and run and storage capacity etc- this could be a boon for those who can't buy a PC.

I hope people don't start expecting to run Quake 4 or something like that ..

Let's see...

Storing my files on my computer where I can kep track of them vs somewhere else where any asshat with access can see/alter them?

I'll take the former. I'd rather have my stuff where I can control it, thank you.

ditto. i mean, for programs and apps i would be fine not downloading and/or installing them and just running them over the net (in theory), but my files are my files, and they're staying with me.

plus, without superfast internet connections i can only see this as horribly slow for the next few years at least. top widely-available internet connections in the UK are 16mbps, max. top data transfer rate for my SATA hard drive is... 1,500mbps. my USB2 external HD: 480mbps. my fileserver over LAN: 1,000mpbs. the internet has some way to go, methinks.

ditto. i mean, for programs and apps i would be fine not downloading and/or installing them and just running them over the net (in theory), but my files are my files, and they're staying with me.

plus, without superfast internet connections i can only see this as horribly slow for the next few years at least. top widely-available internet connections in the UK are 16mbps, max. top data transfer rate for my SATA hard drive is... 1,500mbps. my USB2 external HD: 480mbps. my fileserver over LAN: 1,000mpbs. the internet has some way to go, methinks.

Heh it seems like an incredible step back in time to me. Rather than going forward, we get what is essentialy a terminal workstation that is served both data and applications from afar. Ahh yes I remeber them days well.

Thus herlads the the death of the PC!

The only thing "new" about this is that the server belongs to someone other than yourself. You have been able to do this on your own for, like, forever. Being a Linux user I use ssh with X forwarding, but I'm sure Windows has its own thing. It can be useful, but it can never fully replace locally running software since it'll always depend on a working network connection, and always be slower.

And if anything, this will STRENGTHEN Microsoft's grip on the market. When the software is running on their servers the customers will come to depend on their service and have a harder time switching to competing software. Microsoft will also have a much easier time making sure that everyone pays, as well as letting them get creative with pricing and only rent you the software. No more purchases that last forever!

Heh it seems like an incredible step back in time to me. Rather than going forward, we get what is essentialy a terminal workstation that is served both data and applications from afar. Ahh yes I remeber them days well.

Thus herlads the the death of the PC!

yeah, that thought popped in my head too. too young to remember those days, myself, but i don't much like the idea of going back either...

Microsoft will also have a much easier time making sure that everyone pays, as well as letting them get creative with pricing and only rent you the software. No more purchases that last forever!

Haven't you heard. Not owning things is the future, especially of gaming.

It's alright for business software, but you need real hardware for gaming. I use Terminal Server and honestly, the screen updates are atrociously slow when you start using apps which have rapid animations. In the future, bandwidth will be a lot better but I can only see this replacing applications which don't require high end graphics.

Citrix makes a better product. Desktop broker is pretty neat but the java client portion is a bit touchy on the host platform

As far as "First" I am not sure maybe the first free service but we have been running a remote desktop broker beta for almost a year now here...

Citrix makes a better product. Desktop broker is pretty neat but the java client portion is a bit touchy on the host platform

As far as "First" I am not sure maybe the first free service but we have been running a remote desktop broker beta for almost a year now here...

The servers that run these things will have to be quite impressive though. It offloads the load from the workstation to the server but puts at the mercy of a network. Having to keep one functioning, I don't trust networks (especially wireless).

The servers that run these things will have to be quite impressive though. It offloads the load from the workstation to the server but puts at the mercy of a network. Having to keep one functioning, I don't trust networks (especially wireless).

The "Servers" do not actually have to be too massive actually they use a "broker" box which actually directs you at a standard desktop that runs one or two sessions a piece so it does take a few machines just not one overwhelmingly big one


We are not using this to replace an existing technology (such as a lab) at my university. What they want to do is provide remote access to course applications (or a full desktop if you want that instead of the individual app) that are not practical to purchase for a student (Example: SAS can run thousands of dollars for a single license... or could I am hearing that is changing)

As far as local usage goes I have no problem trusting the network (as I am the network admin) but you are right about over the web ... it can be a bit more touchy when you have to trust others networks

Here is an example of our citrix access gateway for an example

Minitab is being run remotely I do not have it installed on this computer.

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/computers/citrix.jpg

Edit: This project is still beta there is a lot of UI changes to be made but this is the concept

Here is an example of our citrix access gateway for an example

Minitab is being run remotely I do not have it installed on this computer.

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/computers/citrix.jpg

Edit: This project is still beta there is a lot of UI changes to be made but this is the concept

My first remote desktop system was Citrix at another workplace except they locked it down so much. These days I administer a Windows 2003 Terminal server - two Xeons (hyperthreading) with 2Gb RAM. I'd prefer two dual-core Xeons though.

My first remote desktop system was Citrix at another workplace except they locked it down so much. These days I administer a Windows 2003 Terminal server - two Xeons (hyperthreading) with 2Gb RAM. I'd prefer two dual-core Xeons though.

Terminal Server (which the RDB uses actually at least with windows, though it can serve alternate operating systems) did not quite do what we needed for eventually opening it up to Our entire student staff fac body (bout 20k people)

The new version is pretty cool too I just had a phone/internet conference with citrix corporate the other day and they demo'd some integration features (desktop Iconing and a more portal feel)

The future is lag and having your personal files stored somewhere very far away instead of under your desk? No thanks.

Yes, to where we in the federal government can watch you while you type subversive shit. I think that's where the lag will come from.

Yes, to where we in the federal government can watch you while you type subversive shit. I think that's where the lag will come from.

Then they are doing it wrong

Either way it would be funny to see them try

I think the future will be VNC. There's merit in this system, though, as Aryavartha points out, for students in developing areas it will be a boon being able to access computer power very cheaply.

I think the future will be VNC. There's merit in this system, though, as Aryavartha points out, for students in developing areas it will be a boon being able to access computer power very cheaply.

What about VNC is superior to Terminal Services or Desktop Broker or any of the other more efficient technologies?

Then they are doing it wrong

Either way it would be funny to see them try

I think they already are, except that what watches you is software, not a human being.

What about VNC is superior to Terminal Services or Desktop Broker or any of the other more efficient technologies?

umm VNC Ohhh yeah I know that software it's bloody great. Just walk past a PC clock the IP address which is quite vissible in the lower right corrner where the VNC icon is, and ta-da, you can take control of that PC!

Sweet!

I think they already are, except that what watches you is software, not a human being.

It would be pretty frigging hard to say the very least ... doubt it

umm VNC Ohhh yeah I know that software it's bloody great. Just walk past a PC clock the IP address which is quite vissible in the lower right corrner where the VNC icon is, and ta-da, you can take control of that PC!

Sweet!
How is that different from RDC?

I understand what VNC is and how it works but there are so many shortcomings of that particular service that I dont see it growing beyond an individual machine control to something like a distributed remote system

It would be pretty frigging hard to say the very least ... doubt it

Wouldn't be hard to skim all of the IMs in AIM, especially if the servers are in the US, and the FBI tells them to route the traffic through the NSA's network.

They already bulk filter email at NSA - they've done it for years.

Adding desktops might add to the complexity, but that's just money.

Wouldn't be hard to skim all of the IMs in AIM, especially if the servers are in the US, and the FBI tells them to route the traffic through the NSA's network.

They already bulk filter email at NSA - they've done it for years.

Adding desktops might add to the complexity, but that's just money.

I know what route my traffic goes through and it is not going through the NSA's network

But if you can figure out some way that they can rig a bias in Path discovery you could make millions lol

I make a living on electronic security but you sir are the ones that need the tinfoil hat lol

Edit:

Ok I am going to clarify
Theoredically IM Traffic COULD if they could force AOL or MSN or Yahoo or any of the other big name services to give up that information. Doubtfull that they actually did Look at what happened when they tryed to press Google for search information, they raised holy hell
Same with yahoo (though ultimitly capitulating it was only after making a public scene

Mail is a tricky one though SMTP is point to point and unless one of the services is sending that information back or they manage to rig router path discovery there is just no way to continuously be in the middle of that communication

How is that different from RDC?

I understand what VNC is and how it works but there are so many shortcomings of that particular service that I dont see it growing beyond an individual machine control to something like a distributed remote system

*shrug* dunno never seen RDC!

*shrug* dunno never seen RDC!

:) Remote Desktop ... similar Idea, something windows did right using TS

:) Remote Desktop ... similar Idea, something windows did right using TS

Okay. You do realise my original comment on VNC was sarcasm? I mean having the IP adress on display like that for all to see!

Okay. You do realise my original comment on VNC was sarcasm? I mean having the IP adress on display like that for all to see!

Lol sorry I have just worked the last 26 hours strait lol my sarcasm meter is a bit low lol

Lol sorry I have just worked the last 26 hours strait lol my sarcasm meter is a bit low lol

Ahhh then I can recomend beer as a natural sarcasm balancer!

Ahhh then I can recomend beer as a natural sarcasm balancer!

Sorry got to crash for 5 hours then work another 26 + hour shift

I think the future will be VNC. There's merit in this system, though, as Aryavartha points out, for students in developing areas it will be a boon being able to access computer power very cheaply.

VNC? I use VNC to control workstations and it's lags like hell using a 100mbit network using >256 colours.

How is that different from RDC?

I understand what VNC is and how it works but there are so many shortcomings of that particular service that I dont see it growing beyond an individual machine control to something like a distributed remote system

You won't. You will just simply control your own computer at home from wherever you happen to be and you won't be in seven places at once. Of course, it may not be this iteration of VNC, or not even VNC, because, as you point out, it has flaws; but eventually something like it, I think, will be the stuff that people will be using to access their files and apps over the internet.

VNC? I use VNC to control workstations and it's lags like hell using a 100mbit network using >256 colours.

It goes quite nicely at home controlling my two extra computers from my main one. That's the use I'm envisioning, not a workstation farm.

It goes quite nicely at home controlling my two extra computers from my main one. That's the use I'm envisioning, not a workstation farm.

I use to control people's workstations at work. It works but sometimes it's frustrating thing to use over slowish connections like VPN.

so presumably, as this is a virtual desktop via the internet, what would happen if the internet was down? Would you lose access to all computer functions rather than just standard internet-related ones?

You won't. You will just simply control your own computer at home from wherever you happen to be and you won't be in seven places at once. Of course, it may not be this iteration of VNC, or not even VNC, because, as you point out, it has flaws; but eventually something like it, I think, will be the stuff that people will be using to access their files and apps over the internet.

They already are ... I know I do

The problem being accessibility the setups to do such right now are fairly complex. There are companies like gotomypc that are trying to streamline it but right now the average user could not setup nor maintain the use of this sort of technology


But this example in this post is for centralized application and windows serving rather then a sort of ad-hoc type already in use (by people like me) and if there would be advantages

And there are

so presumably, as this is a virtual desktop via the internet, what would happen if the internet was down? Would you lose access to all computer functions rather than just standard internet-related ones?

Well you would loose access to that functionality ... I dont see them actually making the core OS over the network. That sort of "workstation" thing died out a while ago (at least I have not seen it)

But what is being discussed is more file and specific application access, and then yes network connectivity would be key to getting access to those resources. Though with our citrix client you can loose connectivity with the server and still use the application, Just dont try to save :)

I use to control people's workstations at work. It works but sometimes it's frustrating thing to use over slowish connections like VPN.

And when layering on top of other technologies, For example I tunnel into my workstation at work from home. Thats just fine microsofts RDC is robust enough to be just hunky dory, But when i try to use the keyboard inside a virtual on my workstation things get REALY interesting (repeated letters trouble controlling and lag like you have never seen before)

So while remote access for me is key to my operation I have to really watch what I am trying to do remotely

Well you would loose access to that functionality ... I dont see them actually making the core OS over the network. That sort of "workstation" thing died out a while ago (at least I have not seen it)

But what is being discussed is more file and specific application access, and then yes network connectivity would be key to getting access to those resources. Though with our citrix client you can loose connectivity with the server and still use the application, Just dont try to save :)
ahh...gotcha. Thanks.

that in itself is enough to make me say this is a bad idea, never mind the privacy issue. We've had alot of construction and utility work in my area. Internet is frequently out, and power goes on and off at times. Good-bye work.

I think this is the future. And I hope this, in the future, takes away the hold that software companies like microsoft has on the market.

I am going to try it sometime....

http://www.domain-b.com/infotech/itnews/2007/20070619_windows.html


Sounds like we're going back to the good ol' days of terminals :)

Sorry got to crash for 5 hours then work another 26 + hour shift
Aren't those kind of shifts illegal?

Also, are you on salary?

Aren't those kind of shifts illegal?

Also, are you on salary?

Not illegal when you alternate Jobs :)

I am hourly for both of them

I am not going to put up my private stuff online either..

But I quite like the idea of having a virtual desktop. Gives me mobility. I don't have to carry my laptop around everywhere I go. I can be in Seattle, Miami, India...anywhere and can still do my work.

Yeah, I agree. But gotomypc.com does the same thing. (For computer geeks, it's like a hyper-advanced telnet session)

Not illegal when you alternate Jobs :)

I am hourly for both of them
OK, better question. Why would you do that?

OK, better question. Why would you do that?

Need of money ... after we inherited the farm ... and all the debt that went with it I got to do what I can to help out :)

That and still paying for school (going to be starting my PhD in the fall I think)

Need of money ... after we inherited the farm ... and all the debt that went with it I got to do what I can to help out :)

That and still paying for school (going to be starting my PhD in the fall I think)
Oh yes, I had forgotten the inheritance tax stuff.