NationStates Jolt Archive


Philip Morris to close plant in Concord, NC

Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 03:54
Philip Morris to close Concord cigarette plant
Charlotte Business Journal - 2:53 PM EDT Tuesday, June 26, 2007
by Ken Elkins
Staff Writer

Philip Morris USA will close its 2,500-employee cigarette plant in Concord in three years, citing a decline in U.S. demand for cigarettes.

Most local production will move to the company's Richmond, Va., facility, where many of the Cabarrus County plant's workers would be offered jobs, the company announced Tuesday.

"It is my hope that the majority of the employees at Cabarrus will be able to relocate to Richmond," says Mike Szymanczyk, Philip Morris USA chairman and chief executive.

For employees who don't want to move to Richmond, a three- to 20-month severance package awaits, says Brendan McCormick, Philip Morris senior director of corporate communications. Employees with 30 years or more of service will get the largest package.

The decision to close the 2.4 million-square-foot Concord plant is part of a larger plan by the subsidiary of New York-based Altria Group Inc. (NYSE:MO) to consolidate its facilities and move more cigarette production to Europe, where smoking isn't taking such a large hit as in the United States.

The decision will leave the 1.6 million-square-foot Richmond facility as Philip Morris' only U.S. production plant.

While the Concord shutdown will hit the local economy hard, it won't have much of an effect statewide, says N.C. State University economist Mike Walden. "One silver lining to this is that the tobacco industry has shrunk so much in North Carolina that this is not as severe a blow as it would have been 25 years ago."

However, he says, there will be a clear impact on the Cabarrus economy.

Employees at cigarette companies are "the cream of the crop" when it comes to wages, Walden says. Cigarette companies are extremely profitable because they take an inexpensive product (raw tobacco) and sell it for a high price.

The key question, Walden says, is whether the Concord plant's workers can seamlessly move into jobs that pay as well.

The $1.5 billion N.C. Research Campus, under development in neighboring Kannapolis, is expected to ameliorate the economic impact of the collapse of textile manufacturer Pillowtex Corp., which closed in 2003.

"Now that project becomes critical," says Humpy Wheeler, president of Speedway Motorsports Inc. (NYSE:TRK), which operates Lowe's Motor Speedway south of Concord.

But that doesn't mean former Pillowtex or Philip Morris employees will end up with jobs there. Employees working in a cigarette plant may not have the skills to be retrained for work outside the manufacturing sector, Walden says. Typically, he notes, manufacturing workers move into service jobs if new manufacturing jobs are unavailable.

In the future, says John Cox, president and chief executive of Cabarrus Regional Partnership, the 2,000-acre Philip Morris site could be "the premier mega (industrial) site for the Southeast or perhaps the U.S."

Cabarrus County officials say the Philip Morris announcement is surprising but not unexpected.

"We've been saying for a long time that the economy of North Carolina has transitioned from textiles and tobacco to a more information-based economy," Cox says. "By 2011, we will have lost tobacco in Cabarrus County."

Doug Stafford, a partner in hotel development company Griffin Stafford, goes a step further, saying those jobs will soon be replaced by a vibrant local economy.

"The good news for Cabarrus County is it's a growing county," he says. "Its economy is resilient."

Still, news of the plant's pending closure sent ripples across the county Tuesday morning. At Lowe's Motor Speedway, track executive Wheeler says Philip Morris did not own a corporate suite, but many of the 2,500 workers are ticket buyers and NASCAR fans.

"This will have an impact," he says. "And it further strengthens the reasons for diversifying this county."

The announcement underscores how important industrial recruitment is to the Charlotte area, says Ronnie Bryant, president of the Charlotte Regional Partnership. "We have to ensure that we keep a pipeline of opportunities."

Philip Morris is Concord's top taxpayer. In 2006, the company paid nearly $5 million in total municipal taxes.

Cabarrus must work to attract industrial development to the Philip Morris site and not succumb to residential development, Wheeler says. The latter, he notes, would push Cabarrus closer to being a bedroom community for Charlotte and, in turn, push taxes higher for supporting services.

"There is no doubt that this is a real blow," says Concord Mayor Scott Padgett. "We will just have to work harder on our economic development initiatives."

But the county can't rely on another large-scale employer to come in and fill the void, says Pat Horton, chief executive of Cabarrus Bank & Trust and a native of Concord.

"It's going to be a huge challenge, I think, for our market to attract businesses such as a Phillip Morris," she says. "Our focus needs to be on growing our small businesses and helping them to be able to provide those jobs that are going to be missing in the market."

The immediate concern, Cox says, is for the Philip Morris employees and their families. "It's a very difficult time for us emotionally," he says, speaking from a cell phone outside the plant on U.S. Highway 29.

"We are saddened by the news that one of our most vital industries is closing its doors," Padgett says. "As with any industry closing, our first thoughts must be for the people who are losing their jobs."

Bonnie Silvers, owner of Sweet Pea Café on Union Street in Concord, says many Cabarrus-area families depend on income from the plant. "It's really sad for those people," she says. "It's going to be a detriment to the community."

Employees were told of the decision to close the plant at a 7:15 a.m. meeting at the Concord facility. Managers describe the reaction as "subdued."

Three events have severely cut jobs in Cabarrus -- the 2002 closing of the Midland plant for Corning Inc. that eliminated 800 jobs; the 2003 closing of Pillowtex, which cost 4,000 to 5,000 local jobs; and now the pending Philip Morris shutdown.

"It's a one-two-three punch for the county," Cox says.

Unemployment in Cabarrus trended upward to 4.5 percent in May, rising from 3.9 percent in March. The yearly average unemployment rate in 2006 was 4.1 percent.

Cox says he received an early-morning briefing from Philip Morris officials at the plant.

The reorganization will save the company about $335 million by 2011. But the severance packages and other expenses will be costly, estimated at $670 million.

For cigarette companies, it makes sense to move to high-growth markets in Asia and Eastern Europe, Walden says. The industry is no longer tied to domestically grown tobacco; less than half of the cigarettes made in United States are filled with domestic tobacco.

Cigarettes can be produced at a lower cost overseas and marketed to customers who are not as concerned about health issues as they are in the United States, where consumption has been on the decline since the 1960s.

"It is a disappointment that the company has chosen to move its production operations overseas especially after they worked so hard to have a state-of-the-art facility in Concord," Padgett says. "This shows that we cannot take anything for granted, and this demonstrates why cities have to continually work for small and large economic projects."

In May 2006, Philip Morris completed a $140 million expansion in Concord, which added 12 high-speed cigarette machines and an 11-story automated storage facility for packaging materials.

McCormick says Philip Morris considered keeping the Concord plant open while shuttering the Richmond operation, which has 5,800 employees. "This way delivered the most savings and the best opportunity for the total work force."

Former Concord Mayor George Liles recalls the situation in 1983, when Philip Morris opened the plant on former dairy farm land southwest of Concord. Since then, the company's local employment has expanded, and the plant has become a catalyst for the community's growth, he says. "They have been excellent corporate citizens."

Shares of Philip Morris parent Altria, which have traded between $66.91 and $90.50 over the last year, rose 1.4 percent in trading Tuesday afternoon to $69.73 per share.

Staff writers Roberta Fuchs, Katy Stafford, Erik Spanberg and Will Boye contributed to this report.

Link (http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2007/06/25/daily11.html?t=printable)

My dad is one of the shift manager at this plant and we got the news today. The good news is that we have until 2010 to get our stuff in order, that means to pay off the car, house, to get me out of grad school, have my dad find another job and finish grad school himself, and get our winery/vineyard started

The bad news is that we only have three years to get our stuff in order, which really is a short time considering how you look at it. Which means that I'd probably have to go ahead and get a master in occupational therapist instead of going to UNCC to get a Public History Masters and going to Greensboro to get a MILS, it's just shorter to get a Master in OT than it is to do all that other stuff. So this means that I will have to accept a job where I have to be *ugh* social, and I hate being social. Which is why I loved the idea of being an archivist, but what can you do, you got to do what you need to do in a given situation.

Also, this won't help the local economy either, this plant provided Cabarrus Co. 2,500 jobs, which will be moved to either Richmond, VA or China.

So we'll see how this unfolds for personal reason and for the city of Concord and Cabarrus Co.
Zarakon
27-06-2007, 04:14
Although it's a shame for your dad to lose his job, I can't say I'm sorry that a massive corporation that sells, basically, death, is losing money.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 04:16
Although it's a shame for your dad to lose his job, I can't say I'm sorry that a massive corporation that sells, basically, death, is losing money.

So, the fact that people choose to smoke means nothing to you?
JuNii
27-06-2007, 04:23
So we'll see how this unfolds for personal reason and for the city of Concord and Cabarrus Co.

while I am glad that cigarette use is declining, I'm sorry to hear about your father losing his job.

but as shift manager, he should be able to find another job... I hope. :(

Keep positive and always keep your options open.
Zarakon
27-06-2007, 04:24
So, the fact that people choose to smoke means nothing to you?

And I'm glad less people are choosing to smoke. I hope Phillip Morris goes out of business, and people who want to smoke go back to smoking stuff that doesn't have fucking rat poison in it.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 04:25
while I am glad that cigarette use is declining, I'm sorry to hear about your father losing his job.

but as shift manager, he should be able to find another job... I hope. :(

Keep positive and always keep your options open.

I guess not everyone was laughing at the stupid "Truth" ads like I was...I mean comon, Zephyr as a cancer, who could take any "Truth" ads seriously? Hell I would've smoke out of spite of those stupid ads.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 04:28
And I'm glad less people are choosing to smoke. I hope Phillip Morris goes out of business, and people who want to smoke go back to smoking stuff that doesn't have fucking rat poison in it.

Ok, if you have never been inside of the production line at a cigarette company, please just sit down and shut up. First off, there is no 'rat poison' in cigarettes, that's just a lie that the Anti-Smoking idiots came up with to try to convince people to quit smoking. You want to know what is in cigarettes, honestly? Ok, be prepare, this is what Philip Morris put in their cigarettes.


Tobacco
Chocolate (I'm serious)
Sugar
Nicotine (which is in the tobacco)


There is no poison or chemicals added into the cigarettes, and anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 04:43
Ok, if you have never been inside of the production line at a cigarette company, please just sit down and shut up. First off, there is no 'rat poison' in cigarettes, that's just a lie that the Anti-Smoking idiots came up with to try to convince people to quit smoking. You want to know what is in cigarettes, honestly? Ok, be prepare, this is what Philip Morris put in their cigarettes.


Tobacco
Chocolate (I'm serious)
Sugar
Nicotine (which is in the tobacco)


There is no poison or chemicals added into the cigarettes, and anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.

No chemicals? What's nicotine then?
Katganistan
27-06-2007, 04:47
Ok, if you have never been inside of the production line at a cigarette company, please just sit down and shut up. First off, there is no 'rat poison' in cigarettes, that's just a lie that the Anti-Smoking idiots came up with to try to convince people to quit smoking. You want to know what is in cigarettes, honestly? Ok, be prepare, this is what Philip Morris put in their cigarettes.


Tobacco
Chocolate (I'm serious)
Sugar
Nicotine (which is in the tobacco)


There is no poison or chemicals added into the cigarettes, and anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.

Actually, a bit more than that, since it's the basis of the large legal settlement they had to make. They were shown to have added MORE nicotine to the product in order to make it more addictive, to have kept back research that showed clearly it was bad for the health, and to have marketed aggressively to children (Joe Camel, anyone?)

Here are some links about the chemicals in cigarette smoke:
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Smoking_effects_on_your_body?OpenDocument=
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/factsheets/factsheet9.html

Now, we know you're defending your father's livelihood but pretending that there is no poisonous compounds in cigarettes, or that there is no responsibility for the tobacco industry at all in marketing and in hiding information about the health risks is at best naive and at worst disingenuous.
The Whitemane Gryphons
27-06-2007, 04:48
So, the fact that people choose to smoke means nothing to you?

Cigarettes are incredibly addictive. My dad started smoking back when they were being advertised as harmless and relaxing, and for ten years he's been trying to quit before his lungs do.

Most people choose to have *a* cigarette. Not the ensuing years of addiction.
JuNii
27-06-2007, 04:49
I guess not everyone was laughing at the stupid "Truth" ads like I was...I mean comon, Zephyr as a cancer, who could take any "Truth" ads seriously? Hell I would've smoke out of spite of those stupid ads.

first of all wilgrove, if you want to turn this into a smoking/Anti smoking debate, go right ahead.

but speaking as one who lost an uncle to lung cancer, an aunt who speaks out of an electronic box, and growing up with a father who smokes, and while he quit, he's still plagued by racking coughs... forgive me if I am not sympathetic to a decrease in smoking.

I noticed that you willingly ignored my wishes and hopes that things work out for you, but hey, if you don't want that, but want something like OMG, ANTI SMOKING LOBBYISTS ARE KILLING YOUR WAY OF LIFE! sorry, but I won't give that to you.

I still hope things work out for you, but if all you want is to expound the "glory" that is smoking, then go ahead, but not to me please.
Neesika
27-06-2007, 04:51
There is no poison or chemicals added into the cigarettes, and anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.
That's amazing. So the various chemical ingredients listed on cigarette packages are all lies?

I guess this list (http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm) is a lie.

I guess the Canadian government is lying (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/tobac-tabac/fact-fait/faq/index_e.html).

No, actually...there is a liar here. It's you.

Shitty for your dad and your family. But going on a foolish rant like this...well.
VanBuren
27-06-2007, 04:52
Yeah, mixed bag here. Like many of the others, my sympathy for everyone who lost their job with this closing. Regardless of the nature of the industry, people do have to make ends meet.

That said, I dislike the aforementioned industry and am not sorry to see it take a hit.
The Whitemane Gryphons
27-06-2007, 04:53
Yeah, mixed bag here. Like many of the others, my sympathy for everyone who lost their job with this closing. Regardless of the nature of the industry, people do have to make ends meet.

That said, I dislike the aforementioned industry and am not sorry to see it take a hit.

Perhaps the factory should've switched to making the patch instead. :D
VanBuren
27-06-2007, 04:57
Perhaps the factory should've switched to making the patch instead. :D

Why either/or? Sell the poison and the cure!
Avarum
27-06-2007, 04:58
*snip*
Here are some links about the chemicals in cigarette smoke:
*snip*

Just because something is in the smoke does not mean it was added to the cigarette, there are many additional chemicals formed by the combustion of the tobacco and paper.

This here is a list of the ingredients in Marlboro Full Flavor Kings

Tobacco
Water
Sugars (Sucrose and/or Invert Sugar and/or High Fructose Corn Syrup)
Propylene Glycol
Glycerol
Licorice Extract
Diammonium Phosphate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Cocoa and Cocoa Products
Carob Bean and Extract
Natural and Artificial Flavors

Of those, only the Ammonium is harmful (which I don't understand why they would add that), most of the others are just flavoring or preservatives.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 04:59
Well I'm not going to turn this into a smoking/anti-smoking debate, if you want to have that, start a new thread.

Is smoking dangerous to your health, yes, should you smoke, No. Did companies like Philip Morris use to advertise smoking as relaxing, and healthy back in the 50's, yes. Do people who smoke before they started putting warning labels deserve some type of justice, yes. However, people who smoke from the time the warning labels to now knew the risk, and they still smoke, that is their choice, and they should live with the consequences. Philip Morris is selling a product that is dangerous to your health, there are by no means forcing you to smoke, all they're doing is selling, the choice to buy the cigarettes are up to the consumer, that is it.

My family will be fine though, and thanks for the kind words. My dad will go into Retirement Home management because there's a great demand for them, it has great insurance and pays about the same as he made at Philip Morris.
Neesika
27-06-2007, 04:59
Why either/or? Sell the poison and the cure!

For cancer? :P
Katganistan
27-06-2007, 05:01
Just because something is in the smoke does not mean it was added to the cigarette, there are many additional chemicals formed by the combustion of the tobacco and paper.

This here is a list of the ingredients in Marlboro Full Flavor Kings

Tobacco
Water
Sugars (Sucrose and/or Invert Sugar and/or High Fructose Corn Syrup)
Propylene Glycol
Glycerol
Licorice Extract
Diammonium Phosphate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Cocoa and Cocoa Products
Carob Bean and Extract
Natural and Artificial Flavors

Of those, only the Ammonium is harmful (which I don't understand why they would add that), most of the others are just flavoring or preservatives.

I only claimed nicotine was added. I never said the other compounds, which are in tobacco, and are harmful, were added. Please look at my post.
The Whitemane Gryphons
27-06-2007, 05:03
Just because something is in the smoke does not mean it was added to the cigarette, there are many additional chemicals formed by the combustion of the tobacco and paper.

Don't you still inhale that smoke?
Avarum
27-06-2007, 05:09
Don't you still inhale that smoke?

Yes, but there is nothing that can be done about what forms when tobacco burns. They are a biproduct of combustion and not added to the cigarettes as the "truth" advertisements would have you believe.
Nouvelle Wallonochia
27-06-2007, 05:11
*snip*

Welcome to the short end of the globalization stick. Since 1997 my hometown has lost an oil refinery, 6 factories and 2 tool and die shops. Currently, the biggest employer in town is Walmart.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 05:12
Yes, but there is nothing that can be done about what forms when tobacco burns. They are a biproducts of combustion and not added to the cigarettes as the "truth" advertisements would have you believe.

I like you. :)
OuroborosCobra
27-06-2007, 05:18
So, the fact that people choose to smoke means nothing to you?

People choose to smoke crack too, doesn't mean I'm going to support making it legal.
New Granada
27-06-2007, 05:25
Thanks! Despicable anti smoking nazis.
UpwardThrust
27-06-2007, 05:39
More people are choosing not to smoke ... cant say I am heartbroken

Sorry bout your dad though
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 05:45
I wonder how many people in a cigarette factory smoke ...
VanBuren
27-06-2007, 05:47
For cancer? :P

For addiction silly.


Cancer costs extra.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 05:50
The number of smokers worldwide is probably on the rise, especially in Asia. Too bad PM doesn't seem to be cashing in - if people are going to smoke, might as well bring the profits home rather than leaving it to foreign-held companies.
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 05:54
The number of smokers worldwide is probably on the rise, especially in Asia. Too bad PM doesn't seem to be cashing in - if people are going to smoke, might as well bring the profits home rather than leaving it to foreign-held companies.

There's probably a huge factory of Chinese workers working of 1/10 the wage of US workers churning out these things, so it's more profitable to make them in China.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 05:59
There's probably a huge factory of Chinese workers working of 1/10 the wage of US workers churning out these things, so it's more profitable to make them in China.

I dunno. The article uses the phrase "citing a decline in demand," though it's not clear whether it means domestically or internationally. It kinda sounded like Phillip Morris had failed to exploit what I've heard to be an *increase* in overall demand. In any case, I'd think a North Carolina-based plant would still be efficient just for its proximity to the source farms, but maybe not.
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 06:00
I dunno. The article uses the phrase "citing a decline in demand," though it's not clear whether it means domestically or internationally. It kinda sounded like Phillip Morris had failed to exploit what I've heard to be an *increase* in overall demand. In any case, I'd think a North Carolina-based plant would still be efficient just for its proximity to the source farms, but maybe not.

Or they are shifting production to China and other Asian countries.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 06:00
Or they are shifting production to China and other Asian countries.

Yea, they are shipping plants to Richmond, VA. and to China.
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 06:02
Yea, they are shipping plants to Richmond, VA. and to China.

There you go, company is lying to your father. Cutting costs by shifting to cheaper places of production.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 06:03
Or they are shifting production to China and other Asian countries.

Does tobacco grow in Asia? I didn't think it did, but it might, I guess. I thought it was mostly the U.S. and middle east, esp. Turkey, still.
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 06:06
Does tobacco grow in Asia? I didn't think it did, but it might, I guess. I thought it was mostly the U.S. and middle east, esp. Turkey, still.

Hydroponic tobacco maybe? China isn't exactly backward these days.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 06:10
Hydroponic tobacco maybe? China isn't exactly backward these days.

No idea. I didn't think they had the climate for it, but you never can tell - I just bought a banana tree at Home Depot the other day, and I had no clue I could grow them here. :p
Trollgaard
27-06-2007, 06:48
Damn. That sucks. Hopefully cigarette prices won't go up anymore.
Jeruselem
27-06-2007, 06:59
Damn. That sucks. Hopefully cigarette prices won't go up anymore.

They wouldn't go down, that's for sure. You have keep a healthy profit margin for producting toxic products.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 07:11
They wouldn't go down, that's for sure. You have keep a healthy profit margin for producting toxic products.

I don't think the tobacco companies are the ones raising the prices. ;) It's something like 2/3 tax, when you go to buy that carton.
Greater Trostia
27-06-2007, 07:19
You know what I like? I like how the anti-smoking activists, in the pub and bar smoking ban discussions, always assured me that they *only* want to make sure that such places are clean. They don't want to ban smoking entirely. But then they come to a thread like this and are practically creaming their jeans about that glorious day when no tobacco is smoked anywhere.

I like it cuz I'm right, even if I'd rather not be right.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 07:24
You know what I like? I like how the anti-smoking activists, in the pub and bar smoking ban discussions, always assured me that they *only* want to make sure that such places are clean. They don't want to ban smoking entirely. But then they come to a thread like this and are practically creaming their jeans about that glorious day when no tobacco is smoked anywhere.

I like it cuz I'm right, even if I'd rather not be right.

Good thing no bar I've been in actually disallows smoking. :p But seriously, I agree - the purpose was always social control, not the health of waitresses or cleanliness. That's the phony veneer.
Seangolis Revenge
27-06-2007, 08:14
Ok, if you have never been inside of the production line at a cigarette company, please just sit down and shut up. First off, there is no 'rat poison' in cigarettes, that's just a lie that the Anti-Smoking idiots came up with to try to convince people to quit smoking. You want to know what is in cigarettes, honestly? Ok, be prepare, this is what Philip Morris put in their cigarettes.


Tobacco
Chocolate (I'm serious)
Sugar
Nicotine (which is in the tobacco)


There is no poison or chemicals added into the cigarettes, and anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.


Well, there are preservatives put into the tobacco, which is where most of the chemicals come from.

However, a great many of the nasty shit comes from the actual burning of the tobacco itself over anything added.

However, as you stated, they do add nicotine, which in turn increases addiction to cigarrettes. As well, filters are only put on cigs to make people think they are safer than non-filtered. Which isn't true(Just a random tidbit).

As a smoker, I have no sympathy for tobacco companies, really. Which is why I smoke all-natural, all-american, American Spirit. Grown by the natives, for the natives, smoked by me. Fertilized with the bodies of their dead ancestors(KIDDING).
JuNii
27-06-2007, 08:16
My family will be fine though, and thanks for the kind words. My dad will go into Retirement Home management because there's a great demand for them, it has great insurance and pays about the same as he made at Philip Morris.that's great, hope he finds everything to his liking there.
Armacor
27-06-2007, 08:23
Well they just banned all smoking in enclosed entertainment venues - with some specific exceptions (highrollers room in the casino) here. I think it is just victoria that did it though. (My state)
CthulhuFhtagn
27-06-2007, 08:32
You know what I like? I like how the anti-smoking activists, in the pub and bar smoking ban discussions, always assured me that they *only* want to make sure that such places are clean. They don't want to ban smoking entirely. But then they come to a thread like this and are practically creaming their jeans about that glorious day when no tobacco is smoked anywhere.

I like it cuz I'm right, even if I'd rather not be right.

Only an enormous leap of logic would result in you being right. Seriously, what the fuck? How the fuck does that even remotely follow? I don't want anyone to use methampetamines, for example, but I'm not in favor of them being illegal. Seriously, you're smarter than that.
Glorious Alpha Complex
27-06-2007, 08:46
What do you call a cigarrette plant shutting down? A good start. And yes, it would be nice if people, in general, kicked this nasty habit.

By the way, from what I've been told a lot of the cemical byproducts are in the tobacco because of the way the companies dry the tobacco. I think they compress it while they dry it, and that keeps the toxic shit that would normally go into the air in the plant itself.
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
27-06-2007, 09:06
What do you call a cigarrette plant shutting down? A good start. And yes, it would be nice if people, in general, kicked this nasty habit.

By the way, from what I've been told a lot of the cemical byproducts are in the tobacco because of the way the companies dry the tobacco. I think they compress it while they dry it, and that keeps the toxic shit that would normally go into the air in the plant itself.

There's probably some noxious stuff, beyond nicotine. I knew a guy who only smoked pure tobacco cigarettes - expensive, but they smelled a bit nicer, I thought. Didn't try one myself though.
Wilgrove
27-06-2007, 17:34
As a smoker, I have no sympathy for tobacco companies, really. Which is why I smoke all-natural, all-american, American Spirit. Grown by the natives, for the natives, smoked by me. Fertilized with the bodies of their dead ancestors(KIDDING).

Every once in awhile, I'd like to smoke Cuban cigars that are hand rolled. They are made by Cuban immigrants that migrated to Key West FL. and set up shop there. I don't smoke cigars that often, but when I do it's delicious.
UpwardThrust
27-06-2007, 17:44
Good thing no bar I've been in actually disallows smoking. :p But seriously, I agree - the purpose was always social control, not the health of waitresses or cleanliness. That's the phony veneer.

I have been in one or two that does ... not my normal scene but they make some big money, I know the owner of one of them in town and the no smoking floor is by far their biggest money maker

(which is a lot to be said because they are the biggest bar in the area lots of bands and stuff play there)
Greater Trostia
27-06-2007, 17:50
Only an enormous leap of logic would result in you being right. Seriously, what the fuck? How the fuck does that even remotely follow? I don't want anyone to use methampetamines, for example, but I'm not in favor of them being illegal. Seriously, you're smarter than that.

Oh I am?

Although it's a shame for your dad to lose his job, I can't say I'm sorry that a massive corporation that sells, basically, death, is losing money.

What do you call a cigarrette plant shutting down? A good start.

People choose to smoke crack too, doesn't mean I'm going to support making it legal.

But whether they support full-on, immediate and universal ban... or just hope that all tobacco companies go out of business... or allude to a gradual plan (the "good start")... it's all the same. No leaps of logic required. Step 1, 2, 3.
New new nebraska
27-06-2007, 18:05
I though Phillip Morris USA was against smoking and cigerettes.
CthulhuFhtagn
27-06-2007, 18:36
Oh I am?







But whether they support full-on, immediate and universal ban... or just hope that all tobacco companies go out of business... or allude to a gradual plan (the "good start")... it's all the same. No leaps of logic required. Step 1, 2, 3.

Yeah, that's still not logic. Hoping that something ceases to exist is not the same as wanting it to be banned. See my methampetamine example.
Sumamba Buwhan
27-06-2007, 19:19
It certainly is good news if it is true that demand for cigarettes is declining.

It would be more enjoyable if I could go out without having to stand in clouds of poisonous smoke so that I can hang out with friends in a bar or casino.

Also it would likely ease the strain on our overburdened health care system, which should cost the taxpayer less.

I am sorry to hear that it's going to be hard on your towns economy though. Glad that your father found another line of employment to get into.
Sumamba Buwhan
27-06-2007, 19:24
You know what I like? I like how the anti-smoking activists, in the pub and bar smoking ban discussions, always assured me that they *only* want to make sure that such places are clean. They don't want to ban smoking entirely. But then they come to a thread like this and are practically creaming their jeans about that glorious day when no tobacco is smoked anywhere.

I like it cuz I'm right, even if I'd rather not be right.

Good thing no bar I've been in actually disallows smoking. :p But seriously, I agree - the purpose was always social control, not the health of waitresses or cleanliness. That's the phony veneer.


Is it helpful to generalize?

I don't deny that there are those that wish to ban things that they don't like completely but to try to claim that you can read minds and you know everybodys purpose behind their words is a bit much.

Although I will give you the benefit of the doubt here if you can guess what number I am thinking of
Greater Trostia
27-06-2007, 19:56
Is it helpful to generalize?

I don't deny that there are those that wish to ban things that they don't like completely but to try to claim that you can read minds and you know everybodys purpose behind their words is a bit much.

Although I will give you the benefit of the doubt here if you can guess what number I am thinking of

I never claimed to read minds. I do however know a duck when I see one.
Neo Undelia
27-06-2007, 20:03
Good. Too bad they're just moving on to the third world.
UpwardThrust
27-06-2007, 20:54
I never claimed to read minds. I do however know a duck when I see one.

Lots of people can see objects ... seeing thoughts is a bit more tricky
Avarum
27-06-2007, 20:59
However, as you stated, they do add nicotine, which in turn increases addiction to cigarrettes.


That'd only be true if nicotine wasn't the reason people smoked cigarettes. A stronger cigarette means a person can smoke less to get the same amount of nicotine.
Greater Trostia
27-06-2007, 21:05
Lots of people can see objects ... seeing thoughts is a bit more tricky

Thankfully people make their thoughts fairly clear with words and stuff.
JuNii
27-06-2007, 21:05
That'd only be true if nicotine wasn't the reason people smoked cigarettes. A stronger cigarette means a person can smoke less to get the same amount of nicotine.

actually, no. a stronger cigarette would mean that they would get more nicotine into their system. they would still smoke the same number of cigarettes.
UpwardThrust
27-06-2007, 21:19
Thankfully people make their thoughts fairly clear with words and stuff.

Not necessarily

And even less so on a forum where you subtract vocals and body language. If you think you can "See" the intent of everyones posts I would re-evaluate that perception
Zarakon
27-06-2007, 21:24
Thankfully people make their thoughts fairly clear with words and stuff.

Yeah, and you'll notice that no one said "BAN T3H CIGARRETES!"

Well, other than OcceanDrive, but if I remember correctly, he's trolling.
Sumamba Buwhan
27-06-2007, 21:33
Thankfully people make their thoughts fairly clear with words and stuff.

But your point was that people were lying when they said they didn't want to ban cigarettes. If you never hear them saying otherwise, why do make the claim that they desire to do so?
CthulhuFhtagn
28-06-2007, 01:36
But your point was that people were lying when they said they didn't want to ban cigarettes. If you never hear them saying otherwise, why do make the claim that they desire to do so?

Because he wants to feel persecuted. And if people who don't smoke think stupid things, it means that smoking must be good, not harmful at all, and completely unaddictive. In fact, they're the addicts!
Katganistan
28-06-2007, 02:05
You know what I like? I like how the anti-smoking activists, in the pub and bar smoking ban discussions, always assured me that they *only* want to make sure that such places are clean. They don't want to ban smoking entirely. But then they come to a thread like this and are practically creaming their jeans about that glorious day when no tobacco is smoked anywhere.

I like it cuz I'm right, even if I'd rather not be right.

That's funny, because you and others seem to be reading a LOT into the posts that simply isn't there.

Perhaps smoking affects the brain more than previously thought.