NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070626/ap_on_hi_te/iphone_pricing;_ylt=ApTxuiQ7hRkGkYgGhJlhu7TMWM0F

Not only will the iPhone cost $500-$600 (the "outrageous" price of a Sony Playstation 3), but to use it, fanboys will be shelling out $60-100 a month.

In other news, Apple and AT&T CEOs have been spotted rolling around in pools of money in their respective backyards.

Stuff that makes idiots happy

Lol, especially considering the PS3's online service is free... I wonder if those sanctimonious congressmen will be dragging ATT and Apple before them in order to investigate if they are "price gouging" consumers by charging "outrageous" prices for their service.

Lol, especially considering the PS3's online service is free... I wonder if those sanctimonious congressmen will be dragging ATT and Apple before them in order to investigate if they are "price gouging" consumers by charging "outrageous" prices for their service.

The news headlines of the day that happens would read like this:

-Congressmen investigated Apple/ATT price gouging
-Bears have been spotted using public restrooms
-The countries of the Middle East have formed into the Southwest Asian Union. Member states include Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Kurdistan, Kuwait, Iraq, and Iran.

Let them charge whatever they want, it's not like you're forced to buy one.

The news headlines of the day that happens would read like this:

-Congressmen investigated Apple/ATT price gouging
-Bears have been spotted using public restrooms
-The countries of the Middle East have formed into the Southwest Asian Union. Member states include Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Kurdistan, Kuwait, Iraq, and Iran.

:eek:

Let them charge whatever they want, it's not like you're forced to buy one.

That logic hardly stops a politician.

.. is that even if you already have an existing service plan?

That's a ridiculous price. And AT&T/Cingular's service... well it sucks.

I say no to the IPhone, until they lower the price and let it get on better networks.

That's a ridiculous price. And AT&T/Cingular's service... well it sucks.

I say no to the IPhone, until they lower the price and let it get on better networks.

The reason they chose AT&T/Cingular singular for the iPhone is because they use the standard that the rest of the fucking world uses. It enables them to market it to Europe and I think Japan without making any changes.

I think America is the only country with about a different standard for each carrier.

The reason they chose AT&T/Cingular singular for the iPhone is because they use the standard that the rest of the fucking world uses. It enables them to market it to Europe and I think Japan without making any changes.

Except that the Japanese have already fucked off the iPhone. In Japan, they use their mobiles to buy from vending machines; I'd like to see the iPhone top THAT.

Am I th eonly one who thinks the whole concept is rediculous?

Am I th eonly one who thinks the whole concept is rediculous?
Of course it is, but the only reason Apple isn't dead (with the rest of the computer makers who thought they would strike it rich refusing to decouple software from hardware) is because it sells its brand to fanboys for absurd prices. No one really wants the products, but its Apple and therefore you are now a cool jazz cat sipping gourmet coffee in some poetry lounge full of smoke.

The sad thing is, it is going to outsell the PS3 - an equivalently priced gaming system.

Of course it is, but the only reason Apple isn't dead (with the rest of the computer makers who thought they would strike it rich refusing to decouple software from hardware) is because it sells its brand to fanboys for absurd prices. No one really wants the products, but its Apple and therefore you are now a cool jazz cat sipping gourmet coffee in some poetry lounge full of smoke.

That's more than a little unfair. While the iPhone seems rather useless at the moment (I suppose that could change with good enough applications) and way too expensive, the iPod is a good and decently priced music player and OS X is a great operating system. A Mac, outside the Pro line, isn't really that expensive anymore either.

If I wasn't already perfectly happy with Linux, I'd certainly choose OS X over Windows, and not because I want to be one of the "cool guys".

That's more than a little unfair. While the iPhone seems rather useless at the moment (I suppose that could change with good enough applications) and way too expensive, the iPod is a good and decently priced music player and OS X is a great operating system. A Mac, outside the Pro line, isn't really that expensive anymore either.
The iPod is a good music player, but it is not decently priced. It is just the only one with exposure so no one even knows anything about the others which is why Apple can play the iPod like the college book market. OS X is a great operating system - based on FreeBSD and working on a proprietary system. A Mac isn't really expensive? Compared to what? Other Macs? Comparatively configured, Mac computers, desktop and notebook, cost far more than PC versions.

If I wasn't already perfectly happy with Linux, I'd certainly choose OS X over Windows, and not because I want to be one of the "cool guys".
I'm not even going to go into the Linux fanboys.

If I wasn't already perfectly happy with Linux, I'd certainly choose OS X over Windows, and not because I want to be one of the "cool guys".

Well given that OSX is a Unix OS...

You wouldn't be in much trouble really.

Macs are basically expensive PC's now though, since they HAVE pretty well decoupled from the hardware ever since they went x86 with Intel.

Well given that OSX is a Unix OS...

You wouldn't be in much trouble really.

Macs are basically expensive PC's now though, since they HAVE pretty well decoupled from the hardware ever since they went x86 with Intel.

But then I find myself asking why I want the expensive ass hardware

I mean I would just end up using window parallels all the time anyways. (That or debian)

I'm not even going to go into the Linux fanboys.

That you without knowing anything about me assume I'm a "fanboy" means that whatever you have to say isn't worth listening to.

Snip

I'm not even going to go into the Linux fanboys.

Does what I need it to do for the things I need it to do, its the best choice for some things

For others I choose windows


Personally with those pared I have no use for OSX

But then I find myself asking why I want the expensive ass hardware

I mean I would just end up using window parallels all the time anyways. (That or debian)

Yeah. Personally I don't much like Macs. They're not PC's they're not something seperate, if I want a shiny white case I can go to Antec or whoever or splash on a shiny car paintjob on it from work. Meh.

That you without knowing anything about me assume I'm a "fanboy" means that whatever you have to say isn't worth listening to.
Going by "I use Linux" and "I rather use a (Unix/Linux based OS) before I use Windows," I gather all I need to know.


Macs are basically expensive PC's now though, since they HAVE pretty well decoupled from the hardware ever since they went x86 with Intel.
All of what? Less than a year ago? All having x86 architecture allows them to do is run Windows on Mac machines. None of their hardware is decoupled from hardware, none of it. They still use proprietary hard drives, RAM, motherboards, peripherals, etc etc.

Macs are not "expensive PCs." DELLs are expensive PCs. Macs are expensive alternative computers.

Going by "I use Linux" and "I rather use a (Unix/Linux based OS) before I use Windows," I gather all I need to know.

In some applications I prefer to use a Linux/BSD operating system over a windows as well.

No its not the tool for every job but it can be the best tool for some

Going by "I use Linux" and "I rather use a (Unix/Linux based OS) before I use Windows," I gather all I need to know.

You are wrong, though.

You shouldn't assume so much, and also not fling insults around at people for no reason. Or any reason.

In some applications I prefer to use a Linux/BSD operating system over a windows as well.

No its not the tool for every job but it can be the best tool for some
No argument; however, he made it sound like he was one of the "OMG WINDOWS IS THE DEVIL" idiots I have to put up with all the time at school who puts Linux on anything with memory storage in it.

Apple is charging ludicrous amounts for a product whose main selling point is that it'll have a lower case 'i' at the beginning of its name? Shocking stuff. ;)

Apple is charging ludicrous amounts for a product whose main selling point is that it'll have a lower case 'i' at the beginning of its name? Shocking stuff. ;)
I thought they had trademarked a leading lowercase "i" until I saw a bunch of unrelated companies with it. Then I was surprised they hadn't.

Snip


All of what? Less than a year ago? All having x86 architecture allows them to do is run Windows on Mac machines. None of their hardware is decoupled from hardware, none of it. They still use proprietary hard drives, RAM, motherboards, peripherals, etc etc.

Macs are not "expensive PCs." DELLs are expensive PCs. Macs are expensive alternative computers.

Amazing the Macbook pro we have at work uses standard SATA hard drives, And Standard ram here (Micron) its just DDR2-SD ram


(In fact looking at it all the MACBooks use standard SATA drives ... I think they may even use WD)

I thought they had trademarked a leading lowercase "i" until I saw a bunch of unrelated companies with it. Then I was surprised they hadn't.

Yeah, I think there is/was an mp3 player called the iRiver that has nothing to do with Apple.

No argument; however, he made it sound like he was one of the "OMG WINDOWS IS THE DEVIL" idiots I have to put up with all the time at school who puts Linux on anything with memory storage in it.

I tend to use it heavily and I do find it a more appealing operating systems for most things I personally do.

I do not like a lot of things windows has done nor MAC but I dont like some of the things certain distro's of linux has done either...

It might be overpriced and a bit clunky at times, but as far as doing what people want it to do (read: run commercial software), Windows kicks the shit out of every other OS on the planet.

Yeah, I think there is/was an mp3 player called the iRiver that has nothing to do with Apple.
If I'm not mistaken, it is a Creative product - the people who were at the top of the mp3 market before the introduction of the iPod. Idiots failed to advertise, and still do.

Amazing the Macbook pro we have at work uses standard SATA hard drives, And Standard ram here (Micron) its just DDR2-SD ram


(In fact looking at it all the MACBooks use standard SATA drives ... I think they may even use WD)

Psst..."The_pantless_hero" doesn't know what he's talking about.

In other news, with $60 roughly equalling £30, the AT&T contract charge is damned good value for what it comes with (unlimited calls etc.).

This could be because they overcharge here.

[Edit: it wasn't unlimited texts but unlimited calls.]

Psst..."The_pantless_hero" doesn't know what he's talking about.

In other news, with $60 roughly equalling £30, the AT&T contract charge is damned good value for what it comes with (unlimited texts etc.).

This could be because they overcharge here.
Speaking of not knowing what some one is talking about. It doesn't have unlimited text messages.

The phone still costs as much as a Sony Playstation 3, which was charged with overpricing the gaming console, and will still cost $60 to $100 a month to use. After a $40 activation fee.

That you without knowing anything about me assume I'm a "fanboy" means that whatever you have to say isn't worth listening to.

You catch on quick.

More flailing from a Windows fanboy who can't handle people using something else because it fits their needs better. Seriously, what a fucking whiner. The irony involved in bitching about Mac users bashing Windows while he throws these bi-monthly tizzies about some Mac product tossing about 'fanboy' as if he didn't look like some oxygen depraved Windows whore.

"OMG!! People use other tools, they don't like the dominant but clunky alternative! They must be fanboys and this threatens my manhood in some weird Eustrusca/Cindy Sheehan way that prompts me to make ridiculous thread after ridiculous thread! Waaaaaaahhhhhh!!! People want things I don't, I must question their motives and disparage them or have to face my own inadequacies!"

Jesus Christ. Get a hobby.

That totally makes my point that anti-Windows people are crackpots void :rolleyes:
Don't you have a goat to eat under a bridge somewhere?

Since I know your OP reading comprehension is lacking, I will remind you this thread had nothing to do with what OS is better and was about the pricing constructs of the iPhone.
PS: Jobs said the iPhone was targeted at "Apple fans." Quote, the end. That was the reason for the title.

Jesus Christ. Get a hobby.
It would be nice if you did.

Also, you might want to note where I agreed UpwardThrust on a point you brought up - that people use different OS's to fit their needs. You starting to hang out with the right-wing crackpot crowd? Looks like because you are doing alot of telling me what I stand for even when I don't take the position.

A fool and his money are soon parted...

Speaking of not knowing what some one is talking about. It doesn't have unlimited text messages.

The phone still costs as much as a Sony Playstation 3, which was charged with overpricing the gaming console, and will still cost $60 to $100 a month to use. After a $40 activation fee.

Damn, I meant unlimited calls. Stupid brain.

I wasn't defending the price of the phone. I was sharing my view on the alleged "over-pricing" of the contract.

And if they can sell it for that price, they will. That goes for both Sony (who, it seems, have got it wrong) and Apple.

Psst..."The_pantless_hero" doesn't know what he's talking about.

In other news, with $60 roughly equalling £30, the AT&T contract charge is damned good value for what it comes with (unlimited texts etc.).

This could be because they overcharge here.

Yeah...that's actually low average for smartphone service, it's around $100 for Sprint...$60 just for the data plan alone (http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/SubmitRegionAction), so it's actually well in line with other prices. Not that that fact will stop him flailing about, it's what he does best.

Yeah...that's actually low average for smartphone service, it's around $100 for Sprint...$60 just for the data plan alone (http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/SubmitRegionAction), so it's actually well in line with other prices. Not that that fact will stop him flailing about, it's what he does best.
You are wholly welcome to go troll elsewhere.

That totally makes my point that anti-Windows people are crackpots void :rolleyes:
You have a point? My god...
Don't you have a goat to eat under a bridge somewhere?
Yeah, these are my threads where I just called a group of people idiots with a spittle driven tirade...

Since I know your OP reading comprehension is lacking,
Says the guy who couldn't understand the actual topic under discussion in the last smack down you received...
I will remind you this thread had nothing to do with what OS is better and was about the pricing constructs of the iPhone.
And then derailed into your usual ranting of 'fanboy' of anyone who dares to decide not to use Windows...
PS: Jobs said the iPhone was targeted at "Apple fans." Quote, the end. That was the reason for the title.
Oh no! He targeted a product at his core audience! Stop the presses!


It would be nice if you did.
The NSG classic of "I'm rubber and you're glue..."

Also, you might want to note where I agreed UpwardThrust on a point you brought up - that people use different OS's to fit their needs. You starting to hang out with the right-wing crackpot crowd? Looks like because you are doing alot of telling me what I stand for even when I don't take the position.
Actually, I'm doing a lot of attacking your shitty arguments, because when you bring them to debates with right wingers it weakens us all and I tire of it.

The reason they chose AT&T/Cingular singular for the iPhone is because they use the standard that the rest of the fucking world uses....

Well, that doesn't matter because te IPhone will likely sell more here then the 'rest of the fucking world' combined.

You are wholly welcome to go troll elsewhere.

Pointing out a serious flaw in your argument is not trolling.

Well, that doesn't matter because te IPhone will likely sell more here then the 'rest of the fucking world' combined.
Granted, but the point stands. Cingular is the only network using the world standard which make the iPhone easily portable to foreign markets.

Pointing out a serious flaw in your argument is not trolling.
That would require you having read my argument.

Granted, but the point stands. Cingular is the only network using the world standard which make the iPhone easily portable to foreign markets.

And this is a bad thing because...?

That would require you having read my argument.

Argument: iPhone's monthly fee is ridiculously expensive.
Observed flaw: It's actually about the norm for phones of its class.

No?

And this is a bad thing because...?
You are obviously confusing me with the two other people saying going with Cingular was a stupid move.

You are obviously confusing me with the two other people saying going with Cingular was a stupid move.

I thought you were slamming everything about it. My apologies.

\


That would require you having read my argument.



Not only will the iPhone cost $500-$600 (the "outrageous" price of a Sony Playstation 3), but to use it, fanboys will be shelling out $60-100 a month.

In other news, Apple and AT&T CEOs have been spotted rolling around in pools of money in their respective backyards.

Emphasis yours. And yet the monthly fees are in step, if in some cases lower than other smartphone plans. You do realize we can all go back and see the things you wrote, don't you?

I thought you were slamming everything about it. My apologies.

The only thing I have addressed the iPhone about is the pricing structure :rolleyes:

Emphasis yours. And yet the monthly fees are in step, if in some cases lower than other smartphone plans. You do realize we can all go back and see the things you wrote, don't you?
Maybe you can bother to provide some usable information to support your argument.

The only thing I have addressed the iPhone about is the pricing structure :rolleyes:

Given your apparent loathing of everything Apple related (Macs are rubbish, everyone that uses one must be a fanboy, iPods aren't worth the hype) it was a logical assumption on my part that the iPhone (which has a number of OS X related features in it) would be lumped in a similar category.

Maybe you can bother to provide some usable information to support your argument.

You forget how to click links?

Given your apparent loathing of everything Apple related (Macs are rubbish, everyone that uses one must be a fanboy, iPods aren't worth the hype) it was a logical assumption on my part that the iPhone (which has a number of OS X related features in it) would be lumped in a similar category.
Macs are the sole surviving dinosaur of an age when everyone decided to sell software that would only work with their hardware and therefore make tons of money! Apple is the only one to come out of that era still making computers. They are working towards reforming, but Apple still refuses to completely decouple the hardware and software

iPod arn't worth the hype. They are only popular because no other mp3 manufacturer has (even yet) bothered to go on the ad rampage Apple has for the iPod. There were mp3 players before the iPod you know.

You forget how to click links?
Did you bother to click the link? I don't want to buy a phone, I want facts to see.

Did you bother to click the link? I don't want to buy a phone, I want facts to see.
Then don't buy a phone, LOOK AT THE PRICING. I guess it's true about horses and water, damn.

Then don't buy a phone, LOOK AT THE PRICING. I guess it's true about horses and water, damn.
You are obviously getting a different screen than me.

You are obviously getting a different screen than me.

Sorry, I thought with all your crowing about technology and telling people they don't know anything you might be able to use a webpage. My mistake.

You'll see a box that tells you to enter your zip code. That's the five digit number the post office uses to determine your postal area (I don't want to make any assumptions...). Once you do that the website will present the mobile plans available in your area and their costs, but you have to click the box next to the one you just put your zip code in or hit "Return" or "Enter."

Then, the page might be longer than the screen your using, so you'll have to use the little slider bar on the side by moving the mouse, can I assume you know what a mouse is? to click on it and drag it down.

Do you think you can handle that?

Cannot think of a name and The_pantless_hero, may be you both need to try posting in different threads for a while, before this gets any more out of hand.

Damn, and just when it was getting interesting.

*Throws popcorn in garbage bin*

On the topic I will never own a smart phone that does not have Exchange Direct push capability

As far as I know the iPhone does not have this capability

Psst..."The_pantless_hero" doesn't know what he's talking about.

In other news, with $60 roughly equalling £30, the AT&T contract charge is damned good value for what it comes with (unlimited calls etc.).

This could be because they overcharge here.

[Edit: it wasn't unlimited texts but unlimited calls.]

No need to be harsh I have heard more apple fanboys say that they use non standard hardware then I can count

Fans tend to use to to point out how they are better (performance and reliability)
Detractors use it to point out failing in compatibility and price for repair

Both are often wrong (Not always) Most macs (Yes event he Old PPC) used standard ram and hard drives at least, Internally they use mostly the same device slots (Not ALWAYS) and they used often standard voltages so that hardware would be compatible if you could get the drivers.

Its a very common misconception that comes up all the time no worries, no need to get pushy over it either

Is it still okay if I post in here? I'll try and be civil.

Macs are the sole surviving dinosaur of an age when everyone decided to sell software that would only work with their hardware and therefore make tons of money! Apple is the only one to come out of that era still making computers. They are working towards reforming, but Apple still refuses to completely decouple the hardware and software

I, for one, quite like the idea that the hardware I'm using has been designed for use with my OS. This, of course, is a crude generalisation - I don't use Apple's own hard drives, RAM, mice, screens, etc. There's enough design in it to make it work well, and there's enough 3rd party in there to keep it competitive.

IIRC, Apple tried letting others make computers that used the Mac OS. The results weren't pretty by any standards.

iPod arn't worth the hype. They are only popular because no other mp3 manufacturer has (even yet) bothered to go on the ad rampage Apple has for the iPod. There were mp3 players before the iPod you know.

I had an mp3 player before my iPod. It was awful. The data storage was tiny (I may be wrong, but I think the iPod was one of the first portable HD mp3 player - I like the extra space), the user interface was shocking, and it was generally poor.

I don't like the iPod because I'm a slave to adverts. I like it because, like most other Apple products, it is easy to use and does what I need.

No need to be harsh I have heard more apple fanboys say that they use non standard hardware then I can count

Fans tend to use to to point out how they are better (performance and reliability)
Detractors use it to point out failing in compatibility and price for repair

Both are often wrong (Not always) Most macs (Yes event he Old PPC) used standard ram and hard drives at least, Internally they use mostly the same device slots (Not ALWAYS) and they used often standard voltages so that hardware would be compatible if you could get the drivers.

Its a very common misconception that comes up all the time no worries, no need to get pushy over it either

A pet hate. If it's done in innocence, fine. If it is spouted by someone who acts like they know all about it, it irks.

A pet hate. If it's done in innocence, fine. If it is spouted by someone who acts like they know all about it, it irks.

I understand I spent years as a tech and worked my way up I understand but I just have come to the realization that people (ALL people) never want to sound like they lack knowledge. Its fine I catch myself doing it too on topics I am not as familiar with as well. (specially those that are closely related to topics I know or should know but am a little fuzzy on)

IIRC, Apple tried letting others make computers that used the Mac OS. The results weren't pretty by any standards.
Considering I don't ever recall that it must have been too early to be relevant in the modern era of computing.
Besides, it has to be made to work with the CPU if I recall.. You don't make computers to use an OS, you make an OS to work on a computer.

I had an mp3 player before my iPod. It was awful. The data storage was tiny (I may be wrong, but I think the iPod was one of the first portable HD mp3 player - I like the extra space), the user interface was shocking, and it was generally poor.
I believe the Creative NOMAD Jukebox had a hard drive.

I don't like the iPod because I'm a slave to adverts. I like it because, like most other Apple products, it is easy to use and does what I need.
The point remains. People don't pay millions to get ads on during the superbowl or 5 second spots in movies for no reason. Advertising goes along way, and that is what primarily made the iPod the best selling mp3 player.

Considering I don't ever recall that it must have been too early to be relevant in the modern era of computing.
Besides, it has to be made to work with the CPU if I recall.. You don't make computers to use an OS, you make an OS to work on a computer.
snip.

Well thats not really true even in the windows world either ... Microsoft has such a massive market share that companies make hardware to work on windows rather then windows work on the hardware

So really in effect they are building the computer to be most compatible with the industry leader OS, at least in a lot of hardware. And when there is a major industry shift (Example SD to DDR) then the work with the big boys (MS) to make it most compatible

(This sounds like rambling to me but after 4 attempts I appear unable to clean it up farther so sorry if it does not make sense)

Well thats not really true even in the windows world either ... Microsoft has such a massive market share that companies make hardware to work on windows rather then windows work on the hardware
But hardware for Macs isn't made to work for Windows, which is what I am getting at.
The OS and CPU have to be compatible to work.

But hardware for Macs isn't made to work for Windows, which is what I am getting at.
The OS and CPU have to be compatible to work.

They are with all their the x86 machines

IBM hardware was not made to work for windows either

Windows was made to follow the x86 standard

They are with all their the x86 machines
Which was just recently put on the Mac.

Considering I don't ever recall that it must have been too early to be relevant in the modern era of computing.

This was in the mid nineties before JObs came back to Apple.




The point remains. People don't pay millions to get ads on during the superbowl or 5 second spots in movies for no reason. Advertising goes along way, and that is what primarily made the iPod the best selling mp3 player.

I'd just like to point out that Apple refuses to pay for product placement in any media.

Yes, they by commercial time, but anytime you seen an Apple product in a film or TV show, it was put there with out Apple's consent or money.

Which was just recently put on the Mac.

Yup ...
So now ya have some choices I guess ...

I don't know I guess I am not just catching your drift, but to me my biggest hangup has been hardware standardization release rather then them choosing a different architecture for a long time then switching

It's not all advertising. I don't watch TV, I listen to commercial free pod casts of my radio shows, I don't read magazines, I also have an ad filter for the internet. I like my ipod better than any other mp3 player I've owned, and I love itunes.
So please, don't tell me it's only about marketing.

Also, I'm with AT&T because their customer service is an absolute joy to talk to. I've been with every service except Verizon, AT&T is by far my favorite.

Also, I'm with AT&T because their customer service is an absolute joy to talk to. I've been with every service except Verizon, AT&T is by far my favorite.

I switched out of them a few years back their coverage is bad in the area.

Verizon also sprung to put a cell phone repeater on campus, awesome for me because unlike any other phone company I can actually get service in my office.

It's not all advertising. I don't watch TV, I listen to commercial free pod casts of my radio shows, I don't read magazines, I also have an ad filter for the internet. I like my ipod better than any other mp3 player I've owned, and I love itunes.
So please, don't tell me it's only about marketing.
Then why did you pick and iPod as opposed to a Creative Zen or a RCA Lyra Jukebox?

I had others, including the iriver. The ipod was a gift and sat unused for several months. One day I pulled it out of the box and since that day I've never left my home without it. I only use my iriver when I'm skate boarding or skydiving because I don't want to break my favorite toy.

I had others, including the iriver. The ipod was a gift and sat unused for several months. One day I pulled it out of the box and since that day I've never left my home without it. I only use my iriver when I'm skate boarding or skydiving because I don't want to break my favorite toy.

You skate board and sky dive?


You are so cool.

If I'm not mistaken, it is a Creative product - the people who were at the top of the mp3 market before the introduction of the iPod. Idiots failed to advertise, and still do.
You are mistaken. IRiver is a company. Their products have snazzy names like H10 and iHP-100.

Psst..."The_pantless_hero" doesn't know what he's talking about.

In other news, with $60 roughly equalling £30, the AT&T contract charge is damned good value for what it comes with (unlimited calls etc.).

This could be because they overcharge here.

[Edit: it wasn't unlimited texts but unlimited calls.]
Wow! £30 a month for a mobile phone contract when I've already spent £300 on the phone?! :eek:

:rolleyes:

Fuck that.

I'll stick with my free RIZR and £15/month contract that way more than covers my needs. If you know how to play the phone companies, there is no way you'd ever pay for a phone again.

Truth be told, I bought the iriver because I saw it on a billboard. I bought it to replace the piece of crap RCA released. I bought that because I was happy to see RCA was trying to make a comeback.

Wow! £30 a month for a mobile phone contract when I've already spent £300 on the phone?! :eek:

:rolleyes:

Fuck that.

I'll stick with my free RIZR and £15/month contract that way more than covers my needs. If you know how to play the phone companies, there is no way you'd ever pay for a phone again.

You're speaking to a guy who spends about £2 a month on his phone. I get some free texts, and that does me. I buy myself the handset on pay-as-you-go and then keep it until it dies. So paying any kind of monthly fee is not really a smart move for me.

I'll stick with my free RIZR and £15/month contract that way more than covers my needs. If you know how to play the phone companies, there is no way you'd ever pay for a phone again.

Well since they offer you free phones for signing contracts with them in the US, that isn't hard. Though the contracts last for years and early cancellation fees are in the hundreds of dollars.

You can get a one year contract. They just don't publicize they still do them. It's been that way for at least ten years.
And if you really don't want a contract, go with Criket.

My iRiver came with Sennheiser earbuds. Hard to beat that, and now I use those earbuds instead of the cheap ones my iPod came with. The sound difference is noticeable and the increased quality muchly appreciated.

The reason why I've replaced my iRiver with the iPod is twofold - the iPod has more storage, and it happened to me (ie my sister thought she lost hers, bought a new one, and then found her old one, so she gave the new one to me at Christmas).

In terms of being able to twiddle with the sound (effects and all that jazz) the iRiver was leaps and bounds above the iPod. Not only did it have the same kind of presets that the iPod has, it also allowed you to manually alter the EQ within a decent range of frequencies. I miss that option, as the iPod presets kind of suck.

If I were to buy a portable audio device (what a term) I would lean towards an iRiver, and would probably buy one if they still had the same features as the older ones did.

Question: My iPod is a nano; do the other varieties have manual EQ? Is it just something the nanos lack, or is it something iPods lack?

Of course it is, but the only reason Apple isn't dead (with the rest of the computer makers who thought they would strike it rich refusing to decouple software from hardware) is because it sells its brand to fanboys for absurd prices. No one really wants the products, but its Apple and therefore you are now a cool jazz cat sipping gourmet coffee in some poetry lounge full of smoke.

The sad thing is, it is going to outsell the PS3 - an equivalently priced gaming system.
That's not the only reason people buy Apple products. My bf bought a macbook (or whatever they call their laptops) because the hardware was the best for the price (although he has complained about the slot drive a bit) and I do admit that it does look sweet and has a number of cool features...

Of course the software aspects of it look better now that he's got it running linux instead of osx.

i want the new nokia n95 now anyway. it has a 5mp camera, GPS, bluetooth, wifi, 2gb of storage for mp3s and photos... and it costs about the same as an iphone. probably less thanks to me contract (yay for free phone upgrades!)

i walked past the new apple store in the mall this weekend... full of fucking trendy people either trying to be fashionable or using fisher price PCs. it angered me.

You skate board and sky dive?


You are so cool.

:fluffle:

That's not the only reason people buy Apple products. My bf bought a macbook (or whatever they call their laptops) because the hardware was the best for the price
That seems highly unlikely.

That seems highly unlikely.

At release it was pretty close

Though the first two gens had a screeching problem ...

But the pro was actually a good hardware package

That seems highly unlikely.
He shopped around and compared prices and specs. He showed me PCs that were priced similarly to his Mac and the specs were much worse on the PCs and for a PC laptop with the same specs it was much much more. He doesn't even like some of the things that a lot of people buy macs for (he got rid of osx to maximize efficiency, doesn't like the slot drive and doesn't like that his computer is white, but it cost too much to upgrade to the black one to bother).

That being said, the only sort of Mac I would buy if I were to buy one would be a laptop... I've had too many monitors screw up with perfectly good computers to risk getting something where the computer is built into the monitor.

That seems highly unlikely.

Linky (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=hardware&articleId=9023959&taxonomyId=12&intsrc=kc_feat)

Linky (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=hardware&articleId=9023959&taxonomyId=12&intsrc=kc_feat)

Let's look at some hard numbers. I started my research with top-of-the-line notebooks -- I spent an hour on Dell's
I addressed that two pages ago.

Trying to find a cheap price at DELL is like trying to find a Chess champion at Wal-Mart.

Sony also likes high priced laptops.

Where, then, should one look to find a "cheap" computer; one that has all the hardware that these allegedly high-priced computers have, and hasn't been home-built?

fankids make me giggle

Looking on Verizon's smart phone page, and a XV6700 sells for $299, two hundred less than the iPhone. Their lowest minute plan, 450 (the same as AT&T for the iPhone) is $80 for a two year contract, $20 more than AT&Ts. (http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html) (I'd link to Verizon, but to get their price structure you have to go through some selecting and zip code entering, here's a copy and paste, I invite you to look up verizon to verify-
Core Choice
450
Includes:
450 Anytime Minutes, Unlimited IN, Unlimited Night and Weekend Minutes and Unlimited Data Usage*

$0.45 per Minute After Allowance

Monthly Access:
$79.99 )

There is a snag, nights and weekends with AT&T are not unlimited at the lowest plan. Instead it's 5000 nights and weekends, which seems backwards to me.

For the highest rate plan available from AT&T you get 1350 minutes for $99, compared to-
Extra Choice
1350
Includes:
1350 Anytime Minutes, Unlimited IN, Unlimited Night and Weekend Minutes and Unlimited Data Usage*

$0.35 per Minute After Allowance

Monthly Access:
$109.99

Over the course of two years the extra $20 a month charged will actually amount to close to the cost of an iPhone, $480.

With the top rated plan (Verizon offers an even higher plan with 4000 minutes for $169/month) the extra $10 a month will be an extra $240.
299+240=$639.

The phone has the following specs-
The XV6700 is loaded with Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 5.0, Bluetooth® technology, built–in Wi–FI™, and the speed of Broadband. It also boasts a 1.3 megapixel camera/camcorder with flash and Windows Media® Player 10 and a cleverly hidden, side–out QWERTY keyboard.
Features:

* Dual Band (800MHz CDMA/1900MHz PCS)
* 1xEV–DO/1xRTT
* Microsoft Windows Mobile 5.0
* Wireless Sync
* MiniSD Card expansion slot
* Bluetooth Capable*
* Side–Out QWERTY Keyboard
* 1.3 Megapixel Camera/Camcorder
* Windows Media Player 10
* Speakerphone
* TTY Compatible
* Hearing Aid Compatibility = M3
For details on Hearing Aid Compatibility, see About Us — Accessibility.
* Meets FCC SAR limit. Manufacturer's highest FCC reported SAR 0.0987 at ear, 1.098 on body. Actual SAR may vary.
For more information on Radio Frequency Emissions, see About Us — Wireless Issues.


*The XV6700 supports the Wireless Headset and Handsfree Bluetooth Profiles. It does not support object transfer (OBEX) profiles. See Bluetooth for details.

The T-Mobile Blackberry 8800 (http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/Detail.aspx?device=b7240caa-3ba4-4422-b49f-fc2e2d264d11) is $349.99. Actually T-Mobiles rates are better (http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/detail.aspx?tp=tb1&id=e2b9685d-cc4c-4b23-8e8a-12263ab9432f) as well, getting 1500 minutes for $70/month with unlimited data. In case the link doesn't work-
This plan features:
Whenever minutes 1500 per month
Weekend minutes Unlimited
Weeknight minutes Unlimited
myFaves minutes Unlimited
Mobile to mobile minutes None
Shared minutes None
Additional minutes $.40 per minute
Data transfer None

A Sprint Blackberry 7520 (http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/DisplayPhones?phoneSKU=RIM7520) is $319.99.
Data plans are a flat $50 (http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/SubmitPhone?phoneSKU=RIM7520&actionParam=&firstStep=phone&fromPackageDeal=&phoneQuantity=1&x=61&y=16) without any minutes. ($.20 a minute without an additional plan, $40 for a 450 minute plan, $80 for a 1400 minute plan, which would end up amounting to more than even the 8GB iPhone in extra cost.


Actually, it seems like the iPhone is competitive in the market with the plans that AT&T offers. The bargain seems to be T-Mobile's Blackberry plan, but taken with a comparison shopping, the iPhone doesn't really seem like the rip-off it's portrayed to be. Compared to Sprint and Verizon, it's actually a bargain with a phone that compares favorably features wise.

Hysteria unfounded.

Where, then, should one look to find a "cheap" computer; one that has all the hardware that these allegedly high-priced computers have, and hasn't been home-built?
Open a PC gaming magazine, there is an ad for custom computer maker every other page. From Cyberpower PC I built a custom computer with a dozen choices for each item to put in it, came out at $2k (after a 5% rebate), the closest thing I could get from DELL (and this was minus several items I got from Cyberpower) was $500 more (after a 17% rebate).

Over the course of two years the extra $20 a month charged will actually amount to close to the cost of an iPhone, $480.
Valid argument, if the iPhone pay plan was free. So you are paying for something half the cost of an iPhone + iPhone cost in network services, or you are paying for an iPhone + iPhone cost in network services. It would eventually add up over time and be the better deal, but it would take a while.

Linky (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=hardware&articleId=9023959&taxonomyId=12&intsrc=kc_feat)

i think one of the main advantages of PC architechture over Mac's is the fact that you don't have to buy brand name parts. this article dismisses this fact in its second paragraph.

however other than that the article seemed pretty fair, apart from the fact it focused a lot on notebooks, and that is a place where the PC maket does charge a premium and probably can't compete so well. looking at desktops might be more illuminating. all-in-one desktops are also a niche in the PC market.

my favourite place for non brand-name PC stuff http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/

snip

Then you look at getting the Dash from amazon with a T-mobile plan ... the phone is only 29.95 (normally 150) + the t-mobile service plans as stated.

One of the Sweeter phones I have seen (I have the XV6700 BTW my brother has the dash though)

Either way like I stated iPhone does not meet my minimum requirements from a smart/pda/mobliePC phone

So? In no way are you required to own am iphone if you sign up for AT&T. As an aside, you also get unlimited data transfer with the iphone, a service I pay $20/ month for.

you also get unlimited data transfer with the iphone, a service I pay $20/ month for.
that's pretty good. i have to pay by the megabyte i think

It's not bad. Free is better though.

Valid argument, if the iPhone pay plan was free. So you are paying for something half the cost of an iPhone + iPhone cost in network services, or you are paying for an iPhone + iPhone cost in network services. It would eventually add up over time and be the better deal, but it would take a while.
Um, no...you're paying that money extra...the AT&T plan is that much less, so that money is extra you spend so at the end of your required two month contract you've spent $480 more on service than with the iPhone plan, close to the price of an iPhone more just for the service.

Then you look at getting the Dash from amazon with a T-mobile plan ... the phone is only 29.95 (normally 150) + the t-mobile service plans as stated.

One of the Sweeter phones I have seen (I have the XV6700 BTW my brother has the dash though)

Either way like I stated iPhone does not meet my minimum requirements from a smart/pda/mobliePC phone
When I did this I was surprised how much less T-Mobile was than everybody. It isn't that the iPhone is a rip off, it's that T-Mobile is a deal. I might switch.

EDIT: I did check Amazon and you're wrong, but in a different direction. The damn thing is free.

So? In no way are you required to own am iphone if you sign up for AT&T. As an aside, you also get unlimited data transfer with the iphone, a service I pay $20/ month for.
I don't know if the AT&T rates for the iPhone are tied to the iPhone, Verizon had different rates for different phones. I'd look it up, but I'm already risking a thumping from my girlfriend for staying up this late.

If they aren't, then the bargains are buying a different smart phone from AT&T and using their plans (which still invalidates half of this hysteria) or going through T-Mobile.

Snip

When I did this I was surprised how much less T-Mobile was than everybody. It isn't that the iPhone is a rip off, it's that T-Mobile is a deal. I might switch.

Snip.

My family loves it ... they just do not have coverage at my work like verizon does. I really need to have that coverage being I am here 10+ hours a day.

The rates in general are she same regardless of the phone, the data plan is the only difference.

Um, no...you're paying that money extra...the AT&T plan is that much less, so that money is extra you spend so at the end of your required two month contract you've spent $480 more on service than with the iPhone plan, close to the price of an iPhone more just for the service.

The phone still costs money. Granted the iPhone becomes the better deal, but it would require more than a year contract, which is easy in the US, so it would be the better contract compared to Verizon.

My family loves it ... they just do not have coverage at my work like verizon does. I really need to have that coverage being I am here 10+ hours a day.

I don't know if you saw the edit, I didn't do it fast enough.

TPH, What exactly is your beef with at&t?

I don't know if you saw the edit, I didn't do it fast enough.

They made it free! holy crap I was just looking into it last Friday and it was 29 lol

... Its getting even more tempting lol

The phone still costs money. Granted the iPhone becomes the better deal, but it would require more than a year contract, which is easy in the US, so it would be the better contract compared to Verizon.

And Sprint.

And both Verizon and Sprint required a two year contract to get those phones at those prices, otherwise they cost as much as the iPhone.

The only time I was able to trump the iPhone was with T-Mobile, which again doesn't make the iPhone a rip off, it makes T-Mobile a bargain.

What excactly is your beef with AT&T?

It seems they were just caught up in the hoopla, he clearly didn't compare them to other carriers.

I have AT&T because they had the best pay-as-you go that still had free nights and weekends and rollover minutes. Compared to Sprint that I had before, it's like a wonderland.

I love AT&T. I broke contract with Tmobile because they screwed of sideways.

AT&T was also the first to offer new promotions to existing customers.

AT&T was also the first to offer new promotions to existing customers.

Actually that was pretty cool, if I bought an iPhone I'd just have to pay an extra $20 for the data plan to my existing plan. Well, assuming if the GoPhoners are eligible, we might not be, we're like the dirty cousins.

Actually that was pretty cool, if I bought an iPhone I'd just have to pay an extra $20 for the data plan to my existing plan. Well, assuming if the GoPhoners are eligible, we might not be, we're like the dirty cousins.
They should give you guys free data like the monthly folks. Then again what should happen and what will happen are rarely the same thing.