NationStates Jolt Archive

One More Act Of Stupidity ('http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6238146.stm')

Love that Mugabe! I can always count on him to do the stupidest thing possible.

Well, it won't be long now, before they're all reduced to cannibalism, and keeping warm by the light of burning buildings and fields.

Say what you will about Mugabe, but he's got absolutely no sense of how economics works - must be all of that Communist theory he's digested over the years.

Don't worry, the Selous Scouts and Crippled Eagles will return to restore order... and in greater numbers too!

Remember Rhodesia. (http://selousscouts.tripod.com/fn_flag.jpg)

Don't worry, the Selous Scouts and Crippled Eagles will return to restore order... and in greater numbers too!

Remember Rhodesia. (http://selousscouts.tripod.com/fn_flag.jpg)

They seem to have a celebrated history of idiocy.

Sometimes I lie awake all night and just stare at the ceiling and contemplate the future of Zimbabwe.

Of course by 'sometimes', I mean 'never'. :p

Sometimes I lie awake all night and just stare at the ceiling and contemplate the future of Zimbabwe.

Of course by 'sometimes', I mean 'never'. :p

I watch it, it's a bit like watching an extreme slow motion train wreck. Just waiting for the boom at this point.

Sometimes I lie awake all night and just stare at the ceiling and contemplate the future of Zimbabwe.

Of course by 'sometimes', I mean 'never'. :p

Forest Whitaker can play another mad African dictator...

They seem to have a celebrated history of idiocy.

How do you figure?

How do you figure?

It's not as though the history of the whites running Zimbabwe is a grand tale of human equality in action.

Yes, it could be said that the economy was better - but there were a lot of disenfranchised people as well.

That's putting it mildly, of course.

On the other hand, Communism and Mugabe's idiocy isn't a step upwards out of that - if anything, it's a one-way leap into disaster.

Don't worry, the Selous Scouts and Crippled Eagles will return to restore order... and in greater numbers too!

Remember Rhodesia. (http://selousscouts.tripod.com/fn_flag.jpg)

Link's not working.

It just came to me a minute ago. I couldn't understand why Robert Mugabe, who, prior to 2000, led a prosperous, economically productive and progressive nation, should suddenly start doing these incredibly stupid things.

I mean, consider. Whites and Blacks had been getting along cordially, not without some friction, but neither with violence and dysfunction. Zimbabwe had a good credit rating, and such titles as "the breadbasket of southern Africa" were bandied about. Mugabe himself was a benevolent despot; not above getting what he could, but he wasn't wrecking the place and he seemed to have a plan for the future.

Now, we have the basket-case of southern Africa. And Mugabe goes from bad to worse with each pronouncement.

I think he's got third-stage Syphilis. The phage has gotten to his brain and is eating away his ability to think properly.

Link's not working.

It just came to me a minute ago. I couldn't understand why Robert Mugabe, who, prior to 2000, led a prosperous, economically productive and progressive nation, should suddenly start doing these incredibly stupid things.

I mean, consider. Whites and Blacks had been getting along cordially, not without some friction, but neither with violence and dysfunction. Zimbabwe had a good credit rating, and such titles as "the breadbasket of southern Africa" were bandied about. Mugabe himself was a benevolent despot; not above getting what he could, but he wasn't wrecking the place and he seemed to have a plan for the future.

Now, we have the basket-case of southern Africa. And Mugabe goes from bad to worse with each pronouncement.

I think he's got third-stage Syphilis. The phage has gotten to his brain and is eating away his ability to think properly.


I appoint you to write the script for Forest Whitaker's next movie...

It's not as though the history of the whites running Zimbabwe is a grand tale of human equality in action.

Yes, it could be said that the economy was better - but there were a lot of disenfranchised people as well.

That's putting it mildly, of course.

On the other hand, Communism and Mugabe's idiocy isn't a step upwards out of that - if anything, it's a one-way leap into disaster.

It was still better, and can you think of a cooler sounding name for a country than Rhodesia?

During the Bush war all whites were required to serve while military service for blacks was voluntary.

The military had a 4:1 Black/white ratio.

They must have been doing something right.

I appoint you to write the script for Forest Whitaker's next movie...

Sorry, but I just don't get the reference.

Sorry, but I just don't get the reference.

Forest Whitaker played Idi Amin in 'The Last King of Scotland'.

Forest Whitaker played Idi Amin in 'The Last King of Scotland'.

Ah. Didn't catch the movie, though I've heard it was good.

Zimbabwe had a good credit rating, and such titles as "the breadbasket of southern Africa" were bandied about. Mugabe himself was a benevolent despot; not above getting what he could, but he wasn't wrecking the place and he seemed to have a plan for the future.

Now, we have the basket-case of southern Africa.
"Bread basket to basket case", that would be a good name for a title of a book.

And just for the record, I think the title of this thread should be, "It's Not As If Zimbabwe Has An Economy Left..."

It would be nice if this was actually a thread discussing Mugabe and how he's ruined Zimbabwe and left millions of people in abject poverty, rather than a thinly veiled vehicle for RO's to have a go at "communism".

It would be nice if this was actually a thread discussing Mugabe and how he's ruined Zimbabwe and left millions of people in abject poverty, rather than a thinly veiled vehicle for RO's to have a go at "communism".

It is Communism.

Ask Mugabe. Ask his political party.

I'm just surprised that you haven't yet said that if the Democrats get the White House the US will go the way of Zimbabwe.

I'm just surprised that you haven't yet said that if the Democrats get the White House the US will go the way of Zimbabwe.

No, because Democrats are just Republicans who are better at lying to groups like African-Americans and gays.

It is Communism.

Ask Mugabe. Ask his political party.

To be fair, the ZAPF(sp?) version of communism has about as much similarity to Marx as a Volkswagon Beetle has to a Concorde.

I'm just surprised that you haven't yet said that if the Democrats get the White House the US will go the way of Zimbabwe.

It's a good thing the state I live in can suceed from the Union if need be.

To be fair, the ZAPF(sp?) version of communism has about as much similarity to Marx as a Volkswagon Beetle has to a Concorde.

Parties like that and governments like Zimbabwe (and even the former Soviet Union) are what happens when Communist theories are attempted in real life - it's never done "correctly" no matter how many people you jail or starve to death, and it never works.

He did the same thing to farmers the a year or two ago. They all left to... What country? I want to say Zambia, but I'm unsure, regardless, now Zimbabwe has to import food while Country B exports it, both complete reversals.

Come on Mugabe, it's called common sense. No matter how much it hurts to admit, just because someone is black, he can't go from one of the thousand of little underlings to the big cheese within a day. Because that’s what you did with the farms, and what you’re going to need to do now. Of course, being the racist SOFB he is, Mugabe continues, as we can all see, driving his country into the ground.

The other day I saw something about Zimbabwe, a 1000% inflation rate or something?

Oh well, -1 African success story.

you just wait tomorrow Zimbabwe will be a world superpower because of Mugabe's master plan kicking in!

I try to see the best in people :)

The other day I saw something about Zimbabwe, a 1000% inflation rate or something?

About 5,000%, IIRC.

About 5,000%, IIRC.

That's probably as fast as the country can print money.

Link's not working.

It just came to me a minute ago. I couldn't understand why Robert Mugabe, who, prior to 2000, led a prosperous, economically productive and progressive nation, should suddenly start doing these incredibly stupid things.

I mean, consider. Whites and Blacks had been getting along cordially, not without some friction, but neither with violence and dysfunction. Zimbabwe had a good credit rating, and such titles as "the breadbasket of southern Africa" were bandied about. Mugabe himself was a benevolent despot; not above getting what he could, but he wasn't wrecking the place and he seemed to have a plan for the future.

Now, we have the basket-case of southern Africa. And Mugabe goes from bad to worse with each pronouncement.

I think he's got third-stage Syphilis. The phage has gotten to his brain and is eating away his ability to think properly.

Mugabe was never benevolent. The corpses of 10,000+ Ndebeles in the early 1980s attest to that.

About 5,000%, IIRC.

In the neighborhood of 3,500%.

Parties like that and governments like Zimbabwe (and even the former Soviet Union) are what happens when Communist theories are attempted in real life - it's never done "correctly" no matter how many people you jail or starve to death, and it never works.

QFT.

In the neighborhood of 3,500%.

And it'll reach 1.5 m% by the end of the year apparently

http://www.guardian.co.uk/zimbabwe/article/0,,2108511,00.html

And it'll reach 1.5 m% by the end of the year apparently

http://www.guardian.co.uk/zimbabwe/article/0,,2108511,00.html

Possibly, but I doubt it.

Forest Whitaker can play another mad African dictator...

I'd watch that...Last King of Scotland was really good...

That's probably as fast as the country can print money.

Faster actually. They had to remove three zeros from all their currency about two months ago just to make the numbers easier to deal with. Get an estimate on something this morning and by this afternoon it's invalid.

It would be nice if this was actually a thread discussing Mugabe and how he's ruined Zimbabwe and left millions of people in abject poverty, rather than a thinly veiled vehicle for RO's to have a go at "communism".

Well, considering that communism is what has ruined Zimbabwe and left millions of people in abject poverty, why shouldn't it be discussed?

Mugabe was never benevolent. The corpses of 10,000+ Ndebeles in the early 1980s attest to that.

Fair point. That said, he wasn't destroying the country for everyone else at the time.

Well, considering that communism is what has ruined Zimbabwe and left millions of people in abject poverty, why shouldn't it be discussed?

Zimbabwe is capitalist. Communism has nothing to do with it, aside from an absurd sense of entitlement.

Well, considering that communism is what has ruined Zimbabwe and left millions of people in abject poverty, why shouldn't it be discussed?

You can discuss it all you want, but it wasn't the socialist economic system of Zimbabwe that went wrong, horrifying as you may find that to be. It was actually working. What went wrong is that, in a country where agricultural production provided the basis for said economy, Mugabe destroyed the agricultural system by kicking the long-term farmers off the land and replacing them with idiots who didn't know what the hell they were doing. With their primary engine of wealth creation offline, the entire house of cards collapsed.

Zimbabwe is capitalist.

Yeah, and fire trucks are green. :rolleyes:

Ah. Didn't catch the movie, though I've heard it was good.

Good doesn't even begin to describe it...it was phenomenal, and Whitaker was perfect as Amin.

Yeah, and fire trucks are green. :rolleyes:

http://www.feuerwehr-weblog.de/stefan/GreenFireTruck.jpg

Good doesn't even begin to describe it...it was phenomenal, and Whitaker was perfect as Amin.

Okay, guess I'll have to find it at the video store.

http://www.feuerwehr-weblog.de/stefan/GreenFireTruck.jpg

OMG! :eek:

Me = UBER PHAIL

http://www.feuerwehr-weblog.de/stefan/GreenFireTruck.jpg

LMAO

Yeah, and fire trucks are green. :rolleyes:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/zi.html#Econ

Apparently the CIA doesn't think they're communists.

Reasonably, I wouldn't call them communist. They're not even technically a one-party state (though the reality is otherwise). Their economy was built on sound ca[pitalist principles, with a strong stripe of socialist concept overlaid, but no moreso than many European countries.

Didn't Idi Amin do the same kind of thing in Uganda? Last I checked, it didn't work well and Uganda's economy was way stronger in 1972 than Mugabe's fiefdom is today.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/zi.html#Econ

Apparently the CIA doesn't think they're communists.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Note also that no mention is made of them being "capitalists" either.

Didn't Idi Amin do the same kind of thing in Uganda? Last I checked, it didn't work well and Uganda's economy was way stronger in 1972 than Mugabe's fiefdom is today.

Yes, Amin kicked out the Asians and handed their properties, businesses, etc. to his political cronies - with similarly disastrous results. However, inflation in Amin's Uganda never reached the level of Zimbabwe - it was around 1,000% at the time Amin was overthrown.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Note also that no mention is made of them being "capitalists" either.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/kn.html

Count instances of the word "Communist". If it was a communist country it'd be noted as such.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/kn.html

Count instances of the word "Communist". If it was a communist country it'd be noted as such.

It's not a de jure communist country, but it's a de facto one-party state ruled by a president and party committed to communist principles.

Say what you will about Mugabe, but he's got absolutely no sense of how economics works - must be all of that Communist theory he's digested over the years.

Froma certain point of view, that could be seen as bigoted.

It's not a de jure communist country, but it's a de facto one-party state ruled by a president and party committed to communist principles.

So it's a communist country no one actually refers to as a communist country because they are not infact self admitted communists?

http://blog.eponymous.org/pics/HeadExplodeBig.gif

It's a good thing the state I live in can suceed from the Union if need be.

Not this BS again...

Why do you guys take him at his word? Mugabe's sole interest in wealth redistribution involves taking from private citizens, irrespective of skin colour, and giving to government cabinet ministers and their families and friends.
This isn't communism or black economic empowerment. He can cloak his actions in any term he pleases, it still amounts to the same thing and we should call it what it is: kleptocracy.

During the Bush war all whites were required to serve while military service for blacks was voluntary.

The military had a 4:1 Black/white ratio.

They must have been doing something right.

Terribly misleading. The Rhodesian Forces were disproportionately Ndebele (20% of the black population). The strongest opposition to Rhodesian rule came from the Shona (nearly 80% of the black population) although there was an Ndebele based guerrilla movement too (ZAPU). Just as in Kenya, a minority black group (the Masai in Kenya, the Ndebele in Rhodesia) disproportionately staffed an army and defended a system that was intensely hated by the black majority. Early post-independence there was plenty of retaliatory violence against the Masai in Kenya and Ndebele in Zimbabwe, but the world ignored it.

So it's a communist country no one actually refers to as a communist country because they are not infact self admitted communists?

http://blog.eponymous.org/pics/HeadExplodeBig.gif

De facto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto) =/= de jure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure)

No, because Democrats are just Republicans who are better at lying to groups like African-Americans and gays.

Very true.

On this subject Mugabe is a dumbass of epic proportions and I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if you should encounter any accidents.

Also, many of the white farmers he kicked out wound up in Nigeria where the government gave them land to work and from what I've read they've helped bring about record harvests and a major economic boom in many formerly economically depressed rural areas.

Parties like that and governments like Zimbabwe (and even the former Soviet Union) are what happens when Communist theories are attempted in real life - it's never done "correctly" no matter how many people you jail or starve to death, and it never works.

That is about as well put as it can be. I still am surprised that people are still trying to justify communism. I keep thinking to myself that these are kids that just don't know their history. Any rational person can see it is a failed system.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Note also that no mention is made of them being "capitalists" either.
Well, gee this country:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html
has no mention made about it being a capitalist country, so I guess it means they're communist as well.

Yes, Amin kicked out the Asians and handed their properties, businesses, etc. to his political cronies - with similarly disastrous results. However, inflation in Amin's Uganda never reached the level of Zimbabwe - it was around 1,000% at the time Amin was overthrown.

So far as we know, Mugabe hasn't eaten anyone yet.

So far as we know, Mugabe hasn't eaten anyone yet.

Yet. I think he's unstable enough to do it, though. But then again, he comes across as more of a Mobutu than an Amin, more willing to loot whatever he can as quickly as possible than to focus on keeping people in line through terror. It's easier to starve them than to spend the time and money on additional police and armed forces for maintaining law and order.

Has anyone of you ever visited an African state?

Has anyone of you ever visited an African state?

Yes.

Has anyone of you ever visited an African state?

Yup

Yeah, and fire trucks are green. :rolleyes:

Green Godess?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest/slideshows/images/green_goddess340.jpg


Seriously, the Africans (exept some in South Africa) are the weakest race on the planet that have never given anything to this world but problems. Africans are racist, pethetic, aid consumers.

Which one(s)?

Seriously, the Africans (exept some in South Africa) are the weakest race on the planet that have never given anything to this world but problems. Africans are racist, pethetic, aid consumers.

:rolleyes:

Which one(s)?

Morocco and South Africa

Green Godess?

Seriously, the Africans (exept some in South Africa) are the weakest race on the planet that have never given anything to this world but problems. Africans are racist, pethetic, aid consumers.

:eek: Someone please shoot this person.

Your impressions?

Your impressions?

South Africa was a bit rough to be honest. I've been told in plenty of other countries to keep an eye on my stuff in case it gets nicked but this is the first place I consciously thought about it as much. Not that I think it would have made much difference if I did keep an eye on it since a friend who visited the summer before got mugged by a guy with a knife. I have a friend there which was quite useful. Someone who knows where to avoid, etc. Nice country geographically speaking and lots of nice people but a lot of not so nice people too

Link's not working.

It just came to me a minute ago. I couldn't understand why Robert Mugabe, who, prior to 2000, led a prosperous, economically productive and progressive nation, should suddenly start doing these incredibly stupid things.

I mean, consider. Whites and Blacks had been getting along cordially, not without some friction, but neither with violence and dysfunction. Zimbabwe had a good credit rating, and such titles as "the breadbasket of southern Africa" were bandied about. Mugabe himself was a benevolent despot; not above getting what he could, but he wasn't wrecking the place and he seemed to have a plan for the future.

Now, we have the basket-case of southern Africa. And Mugabe goes from bad to worse with each pronouncement.

I think he's got third-stage Syphilis. The phage has gotten to his brain and is eating away his ability to think properly.
I do'nt think he ran a prosperous nation before 2000, I think he started fucking up from day one. I mean genocide on the ndbele after they all voted for the opposition is hardly resposable government!

Mugabe was never benevolent. The corpses of 10,000+ Ndebeles in the early 1980s attest to that.
Sorry, you got there before me!

:eek: Someone please shoot this person.

What have they done for you then?

Why do you guys take him at his word? Mugabe's sole interest in wealth redistribution involves taking from private citizens, irrespective of skin colour, and giving to government cabinet ministers and their families and friends.
This isn't communism or black economic empowerment. He can cloak his actions in any term he pleases, it still amounts to the same thing and we should call it what it is: kleptocracy.

that looks more like the fascism of old Argentina to me

and their economy had similar ruinous results

or maybe Daly's Chicago, but he didn't control enough of the economy to ruin it

Green Godess?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest/slideshows/images/green_goddess340.jpg


Seriously, the Africans (exept some in South Africa) are the weakest race on the planet that have never given anything to this world but problems. Africans are racist, pethetic, aid consumers. Take that white sheet off your head and put out that burning cross!

Which one(s)?

Zimbabwe (to hunt, when it was Rhodesia).
Namibia
South Africa
Mozambique
Ghana
Somalia

I tend to count North Africa as separate - it has an entirely different feel.

Morocco
Algeria
Tunisia
Egypt

What have they done for you then?

What have you done for me?

Communism? Ithink its more senile stalinism!

I agree crime is a major problem in SA. A number of factors are at work. SA is one of the most unequal societies in the world - the gap between rich and poor is massive. The premise of Apartheid was not to keep black and white segregated because of race, but to maintain a pool of cheap labour while extracting the maximum economic benefit. Mines, farms, industries - filthy rich owners, dire poverty for the workers. SA has an unemployment rate close to 30% of the active workforce. Add to this the major influx of refugees from Zimbabwe and Mozambique, and the desperation to survive becomes extreme.

Robert Mugabe is nothing but a dictator. Forget all the bullshit he sprouts about Zimbabwe being a socialist state. Simply put there is fuck all socialist about Zimbabwe. See, Mugabe is smart - he's not some ignorant peasant living out delusions of grandeur. He rigs elections - he simply places more poling booths in the areas where he has most support - the rural areas, than in the cities where there is the greatest opposition to him. In the cities people do not finish voting. Also, the way the electoral system has been set up means that controlling the rural areas of Zimbabwe leads to a majority in parliament. So, ZANU-PF ("democratically" elected) can pass any legislation it likes since it has majority control in parliament without tearing up the constitution. That is why the shit-bag Mugabe can claim he is being victimized by the West since he is a democratically elected leader.

Mugabe makes use of the secret police exactly the way the Soviet Union did. Political party meetings are attended by undercover agents who reports the names of those that oppose Mugabe. Para-military squads maintained by ZANU-PF then visits those people pointed out and are either jailed and/or severely beaten, or killed. Mugabe and a small in-crowd sits on top of all of this controlling the most lucrative business deals. The generals of the army and police share equally in this, and at the same time he makes sure the there is money for the army and police. So, if you do not oppose Mugabe, he takes care of you. He plays the racist card all the time - the racist Whites are responsible for all the ills in Zimbabwe, especially the farmers. There's probably not more than a 1,000 white farmers left in Zimbabwe - all living in fear of their lives. As a political group they wield no influence. He himself is a rabid racist.