NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6233926.stm

A cousin of the late Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has been sentenced to death by an Iraqi court for the mass murder of Kurds in 1988.

Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali" for using poison gas in the Anfal campaign, was convicted of genocide.

About 180,000 Kurd civilians died in the campaign, prosecutors say.

Two fellow defendants were also sentenced to death, two others received prison sentences and a fifth had charges dropped for lack of proof.

Saddam had also been on trial for the Anfal campaign when he was executed in December 2006 for other crimes.

According to Sunday's verdicts, which included sentencing automatically:

* Ali Hassan al-Majid ("Chemical Ali"), ex-Baath leader in northern Iraq, was sentenced to death for genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity

Justice, I believe, has been served.

Two down.

I hope it helps Iraqis bury some of their unfortunate recent history.

Given the political climate of the iraqi state is it really the right thing to do to execute this man?

I agree that he needs to die for his crimes, in an undignified manner, he deserves punishment far more than Saddam Hussein Abd'al-Majid Al-Tikriti for his involvement with the war crimes against the kurdish peoples. However, executing this man might only serve to add further fire to the flames, seen as a way of removing political opposition, or perhaps people who felt oppressed beginning to "weed out" the representation of those who weren't.

It's good to hear that there is resolution on Something at the least, it's simply too bad that it deals with something somewhat insignificant to the greater deal of problems.

Anyways, my two bits.

Two down.
More than that actually - I cut out the last bit of the article. Here's the rest:

# Sultan Hashim Ahmed, former defence minister, was sentenced to death by hanging for war crimes and crimes against humanity

# Hussein Rashid al-Tikriti, ex-Republican Guard head, was sentenced to death for war crimes and crimes against humanity

# Farhan al-Jibouri, ex-military commander, was sentenced to life in prison for war crimes and crimes against humanity

# Saber Abdul Aziz, ex-intelligence chief, was sentenced to to life in prison for war crimes and crimes against humanity

I revise my previous, really not a good idea with this sentance, to remove the entire party will probably cause an extreme amount of Sunni unrest.

EDIT: sunni, socialist, General citizens of upper-class baghdad, etc

I am sorry. I underestimated the win and complete awesome of hte American occupation, yet again.

What are you apologizing for and to whom is it directed at? Also where in your statements did you mention anything about? Did post go missing? All I can see is "two down" from you, so if you could repost your post it'd be wonderful. Also to what are you referring to when you say the win? the war against Saddam ? or the war in Iraq? We're still in the "war in iraq" so you meant against saddam right? if that's the case please repost your previous post, I'd love to hear about your opinions on what we won in our conflict with saddam!

do we get to see it on the net like last time

What are you apologizing for and to whom is it directed at? Also where in your statements did you mention anything about? Did post go missing? All I can see is "two down" from you, so if you could repost your post it'd be wonderful. Also to what are you referring to when you say the win? the war against Saddam ? or the war in Iraq? We're still in the "war in iraq" so you meant against saddam right? if that's the case please repost your previous post, I'd love to hear about your opinions on what we won in our conflict with saddam!

I am apologizing to IV, becase I stated 'two down', and he corrected me, saying that they have executed more ex-Saddamists then I thought. Therefore, I repeat: I have exaggerated the coolness of the American occupation.

The War With Saddam had as it's objective his removal from power (among other things).

He is out of power. Those responsible for war crimes far more horrible then anything the Americans did in Iraq are either dead or in process of becoming dead. :D

This is a Very Good Thing. [tm]

While Chemical Ali is a murderous bastard with a blacker heart than can be imagined, I'm a bit dissapointed to see some of NSGs leftists celebrating state murder. If it's wrong in one case, it's wrong in another.

While Chemical Ali is a murderous bastard with a blacker heart than can be imagined, I'm a bit dissapointed to see some of NSGs leftists celebrating state murder. If it's wrong in one case, it's wrong in another.

By your logic, executing a person for being gay is morally equivalent to executing a person for being a cold-blooded mass-murderer?

While Chemical Ali is a murderous bastard with a blacker heart than can be imagined, I'm a bit dissapointed to see some of NSGs leftists celebrating state murder. If it's wrong in one case, it's wrong in another.

The thing about mass-murderers is, it can be of a lot of good to a country and its reputation if they sort of disappear, rather than rot in jail for 40 years doing interviews occasionally. An exception might be made even if the death penalty were otherwise not used, I think.

I'm just happy to see the iraqi himmler get his just desserts, but I do think that hanging is the best death for him, as it very undignified and removes the idea of him dying a "stoic martyr" which may still happen, but with less of a chance.
It's just that the climate we've built with years of western meddling, expansionism, and brutalizing have not left the best region for regime changes, which is why the execution is a bad idea.

By your logic, executing a person for being gay is morally equivalent to executing a person for being a cold-blooded mass-murderer?No. Quite simply, there are some people who believe murder is wrong, whether it be sanctioned by the state or not.

Good that he's been convicted. Not good that he's being executed.

By your logic, executing a person for being gay is morally equivalent to executing a person for being a cold-blooded mass-murderer?

In what way? Both are deeply reprehensible, as execution is little more than murder at the hands of a particularly cleverly incited mob. Surely, the mass-murderer is a less sympathetic character, but does that change the fact that he will be dead?

Only Iraq could turn the most serious act of a state, capital punishment, into little more than a cheap mob lynching, as in Saddam.

*shrug*

He could die tomorrow or live the rest of his life in a cell or any other exotic form of punishment one could dream up and it wouldn't equate to justice. Maybe there will be some in his afterlife.

Justice, I believe, has been served.

I disagree.

Offing him won't bring his victims back, but I really can't bring myself to care about the welfare of Chemical Ali.

So 'meh' to this aspect of the story, but it's good news nonetheless.

In what way? Both are deeply reprehensible, as execution is little more than murder at the hands of a particularly cleverly incited mob. Surely, the mass-murderer is a less sympathetic character, but does that change the fact that he will be dead?

One is reminded of a Boussenard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Henri_Boussenard) quote:

"There are dead men whom you must kill!"

Offing him won't bring his victims back

Would anything? I mean, sure, maybe if we got into some weird, voodoo, zombie stuff...

Would anything? I mean, sure, maybe if we got into some weird, voodoo, zombie stuff...

I suppose we could sacrifice Ali to some deity in exchange for their resurrection. Think it's worth a shot?

Anyone know what's happened to Comical Ali?

He was the true symbol of the war, guarunteed a laugh from him.

More to the point- executing Chemical Ali makes him a martyr to the resistance's cause (provided thoses fighters are fighting coalition troops).
Is sentencing him to death going to really help?

I suppose we could sacrifice Ali to some deity in exchange for their resurrection. Think it's worth a shot?

*shrug* Sure, I can't think of a better use. But which one?

I don't think they'll let him live on gaol, they want to execute him.

do we get to see it on the net like last time
I actually believe there's going to be an IraqHangings channel on YouTube any time soon, full comments from peope going "OOORAH" and "FUK THE IRAQIS THEIR SAND NIGGAS!" etc. etc.

*shrug* Sure, I can't think of a better use. But which one?

Cthulhu is probably a good bet for this sort of thing.

personally, I do not think justice has been served. They aren't going to kill him with VX nerve gas.

personally, I do not think justice has been served. They aren't going to kill him with VX nerve gas.

Too ironic and more expensive. I see this as removing a clearly genocidal threat. Sure, it won't bring back the victims, but neither would prison or releasing him. At least he won't kill again. At least not as a person. A ghost, maybe. But not a person.

It is certainly a good thing that this guy isn't going to be able to commit any further crimes, we can all nod our heads in approval, even if we don't agree with the sentence (which I don't).

Of course the glow you get from this guilty verdict only lasts a few minutes and now you have to turn back to the clusterfuck that Iraq has turned into since the invasion. A little hard to forget that little detail in this story.

By your logic, executing a person for being gay is morally equivalent to executing a person for being a cold-blooded mass-murderer?

In my book? Yes. I ain't no Christian, but thou shalt not kill has a rather pleasing feel as a principle by which to live.

Two down.

Yup. Just Bush Senior and Donald Rumsfeld left to go.

It is certainly a good thing that this guy isn't going to be able to commit any further crimes, we can all nod our heads in approval, even if we don't agree with the sentence (which I don't).

Of course the glow you get from this guilty verdict only lasts a few minutes and now you have to turn back to the clusterfuck that Iraq has turned into since the invasion. A little hard to forget that little detail in this story.

Yeah. It rather has the feel of being dropped into an open sewer and feeling like it was all worth it because you found a quarter. And you still haven't found a way to climb out of the sewer and don't know if you've caught hepatitis as a result.

Conviction=Good
Execution=Bad

Ifreann has spoken!

What a man.

Saddam could fight a full scale war with the Persians and commit the genocide of undesirables at the same time.

Yes I'm being sarcastic.

Yup. Just Bush Senior and Donald Rumsfeld left to go.

Bush Senior? How was getting Iraq out of Kuwait a bad thing? Either you are an a-hole who has something against the 41st President of the United States or you got your Bushes mixed up.

'Chemical Ali' will hang

the periodic table in his cell? :p

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6233926.stm



Justice, I believe, has been served.

Justice is a convinction. What happens after is nothing more than what happens after justice.

Bush Senior? How was getting Iraq out of Kuwait a bad thing? Either you are an a-hole who has something against the 41st President of the United States or you got your Bushes mixed up.

I believe what is being referred to is how Bush promised to help the Kurds if they rose up, and then failed to do so, leaving them to be butchered.

What a man.

Saddam could fight a full scale war with the Persians and commit the genocide of undesirables at the same time.

Yes I'm being sarcastic.

Hey, multitasking isn't an easy thing for some people. Being involved in two separate horrific events at once was probably hard to juggle. ;)

I believe what is being referred to is how Bush promised to help the Kurds if they rose up, and then failed to do so, leaving them to be butchered.

It's called politics. Bush Sr. wanted to help them, but I doubt the UN, Saudi Arabia, and Congress would have allowed it. Should have followed through with his promise, but hindsight is 20-20.

Justice, I believe, has been served.

Murder is never justice I fear.

All he did was follow orders and commence Capitol Punishment. On a large and efficient scale.

Too ironic and more expensive. I see this as removing a clearly genocidal threat. Sure, it won't bring back the victims, but neither would prison or releasing him. At least he won't kill again. At least not as a person. A ghost, maybe. But not a person.

I very much doubt he'd kill again anyway now that his regime has been crushed ...

While Chemical Ali is a murderous bastard with a blacker heart than can be imagined, I'm a bit dissapointed to see some of NSGs leftists celebrating state murder. If it's wrong in one case, it's wrong in another.

I support the death penalty, am considered "leftist," and am not cheering in this case; mostly because it's used as retroactive political justification for an unjust war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6233926.stm



Justice, I believe, has been served.



Its sad to think that "justice" comes in the form of death to some. True justice will be given by the Almighty God Himself.

In Frisk's Great War of Civilization he mentions that 'Chemical Ali' took a rather active part in the Iran/Iraq War...when he operated in south against Iran. Turned much of the Marsh into a chemical soup.

Nice!

Die and be damned.

Oh yes, and give Saddam our best regards :D

Its sad to think that "justice" comes in the form of death to some. True justice will be given by the Almighty God Himself.

Yah, well some of us don't believe in god so it's just nice to see the motherfucker hanged. 'k.

Yah, well some of us don't believe in god so it's just nice to see the motherfucker hanged. 'k.

Right because it always made sense to me that you kill someone for killing.

Right because it always made sense to me that you kill someone for killing.

Yah. It's a warning to others. If anyone deserves to dance with Jack Ketch, it's this arsehole. The world will be a better place without him, and we shouldn't shed one bloody tear that he has gone.

Right because it always made sense to me that you execute someone for murdering.

Fixed.

Justice, I believe, has been served.

There's no justice in killing people, be it Chemical Ali, Iraq insurgents, US Military or Kurd insurgents (http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&q=kurd+turkey&btnG=Search)*

If Hussein would've been christian, jew or even a friggin' mormon the "coalition" would probably be happily killing the kurds - t3h ehv1l muslim terr0ristar! - instead. :rolleyes:

* I especially found this article (http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=Gulf%2C+Middle+East+%26+Africa&month=June2007&file=World_News200706152421.xml) funny:
ISTANBUL • Turkey yesterday accused Iraq of making "no effort at all" to curb Turkish Kurd rebels who it says take refuge in northern Iraq where they obtain large amounts of explosives.

Hilarious...Makes me wonder whether mr. Hussein and his cronies really were better at keeping overall peace and quiet in Iraq using their brutal but efficient (to an average male or female non-kurd, non-sunni Iraqi :)) methodology than the US led 'coalition' using secure approach, airpower and, uhm, incompetence? :D

Bush Senior? How was getting Iraq out of Kuwait a bad thing? Either you are an a-hole who has something against the 41st President of the United States or you got your Bushes mixed up.

Slant drilling mean anything to you?

Die and be damned.

Oh yes, and give Saddam our best regards :D

And all the dead GOP members.

Fixed.

That um...really doesn't change what he said in any significant way, the point is still the same.

Only Iraq could turn the most serious act of a state, capital punishment, into little more than a cheap mob lynching, as in Saddam.

No matter how much they tried, people were going to see him fall someway.

The only complication was in the fact that it was recorded by some person with a cell phone, and released it to the media. Saddam's body was kept secure and taken in secrecy to his burial site which is still unknown.

Justice, I believe, has been served.

No, it hasn't. Vengeance has.

Justice doesn't call for the death of a detainee. He could have been jailed for life instead.

Politically, this is an idiocy. It will only make him a martyr in the eyes of many Sunnis who feel threatened by the Shiite majority.