NationStates Jolt Archive

And in response to this bordom, I am going to initiate a debate over the constantly regurgitated topic of WWII. And so it begins....

We all know that Germany invaded Poland after signing a treaty with the Soviet Union. What if Germany had not done this, and instead (when the Soviet Union was at its weakest) crushed Poland and rushed into Russia. Would this have hastened Germany's defeat or inadvertantly lead to their victory?

East, not right.

:p

East, not right.

:p

...lol?

East, not right.

:p

I meant, kept moving directly, with a purpose, into russia. I know that Russia is to the east of germany. ;)

Just get stoned. It's the only way to find boredom fun.

I meant, kept moving directly, with a purpose, into russia. I know that Russia is to the east of germany. ;)

I know :p.

I guess western Europe might have sat back while the nazis and soviets killed each other, then come in like a vulture to finish off the winner.

I didn't rhyme on purpose in the edit of the original post.

Just get stoned. It's the only way to find boredom fun.

I'm a broke minor, aint got nottin' to smoke.

I know :p.

I guess western Europe might have sat back while the nazis and soviets killed each other, then come in like a vulture to finish off the winner.

It might not have been WWII, it may have just been the Nazi-Soviet War or something.

They still would've lost. the problem was they tried to fight a two front war.

now had they concentrated on Russia, then helped Japan with China...

That would be an interesting scenario.

That is what I meant, the concentrate on Russia, but they have to go through Poland to get to russia, that why I said, after crushing Poland, they marched on Russia.

And in response to this bordom, I am going to initiate a debate over the constantly regurgitated topic of WWII. And so it begins....

We all know that Germany invaded Poland after signing a treaty with the Soviet Union. What if Germany had not done this, and instead (when the Soviet Union was at its weakest) crushed Poland and rushed into Russia. Would this have hastened Germany's defeat or inadvertantly lead to their victory?

They still would've lost. the problem was they tried to fight a two front war.

now had they concentrated on Russia, then helped Japan with China...

That would be an interesting scenario.

And in response to this bordom, I am going to initiate a debate over the constantly regurgitated topic of WWII. And so it begins....

We all know that Germany invaded Poland after signing a treaty with the Soviet Union. What if Germany had not done this, and instead (when the Soviet Union was at its weakest) crushed Poland and rushed into Russia. Would this have hastened Germany's defeat or inadvertantly lead to their victory?

I don't really see how it would have made too much difference. With Germany clearly in conquest mode I can't see how France and Britain would just sit back and let Germany run amok like that, they would have to intervene and Germany would be back to the two front war that screwed them in real life.

I don't really see how it would have made too much difference. With Germany clearly in conquest mode I can't see how France and Britain would just sit back and let Germany run amok like that, they would have to intervene and Germany would be back to the two front war that screwed them in real life.

Maybe not, France and Britain weren't too fond of the USSR, at least not until they got their asses handed to them. No, I think that if Germany made it clear that they intended to attack just the Soviet Union (for a little while at least) then I think that France and Britain would have turned a blind eye and a deaf ear.

Germany probably could have won. It's doubtful that the United States would have supplied the Soviet Union with much as it did during World War II, and the USSR would probably would have collapsed before a two-front war could ensue.

Germany probably could have won. It's doubtful that the United States would have supplied the Soviet Union with much as it did during World War II, and the USSR would probably would have collapsed before a two-front war could ensue.

I agree. Germany lost because of bad strategy in the early game. That is a clear fact.

They still would've lost. the problem was they tried to fight a two front war.

now had they concentrated on Russia, then helped Japan with China...

That would be an interesting scenario.

Sounds like another crappy WW2 Rts...

Maybe not, France and Britain weren't too fond of the USSR, at least not until they got their asses handed to them. No, I think that if Germany made it clear that they intended to attack just the Soviet Union (for a little while at least) then I think that France and Britain would have turned a blind eye and a deaf ear.

Certainly true but the Allies were already tired of Hitler's antics (finally) so I would think this would be the proverbial straw. Besides, if Hitler went through Poland then France and the UK would intervene anyway given the defense pact they had. The result would be the same. A two front war, only much earlier before Hitler would be able to secure himself in the west. Sounds to me like he would have been defeated even quicker.

And in response to this bordom, I am going to initiate a debate over the constantly regurgitated topic of WWII. And so it begins....

We all know that Germany invaded Poland after signing a treaty with the Soviet Union. What if Germany had not done this, and instead (when the Soviet Union was at its weakest) crushed Poland and rushed into Russia. Would this have hastened Germany's defeat or inadvertantly lead to their victory?

Germany still had to contend with Britain and France because it invaded Poland. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact played a crucial part in Germany's early successes because it did not have to worry about Russia. If Germany invaded Russia, it would have been raped because it would have had to deal with a two-front war much earlier. Logistically, Germany would have not been able to sustain an earlier occupation of Russia even if the invasion was successful.

Germany still had to contend with Britain and France because it invaded Poland. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact played a crucial part in Germany's early successes because it did not have to worry about Russia. If Germany invaded Russia, it would have been raped because it would have had to deal with a two-front war much earlier. Logistically, Germany would have not been able to sustain an earlier occupation of Russia even if the invasion was successful.

No, Germany could have done what it did best, lie. Get the Polish government to allow German soldiers to move through their country and attack Russia, then wait a couple years, appearing to become less militarized while at the same time taking advantage of Russia vast resources and building up their military, then turn on Poland, crush it, rip apart western Europe, then throw their, now considerably mightier, military at Britain until it crumbled.

Certainly true but the Allies were already tired of Hitler's antics (finally) so I would think this would be the proverbial straw. Besides, if Hitler went through Poland then France and the UK would intervene anyway given the defense pact they had. The result would be the same. A two front war, only much earlier before Hitler would be able to secure himself in the west. Sounds to me like he would have been defeated even quicker.

Probably, but I address this, in another post further down the page. I'm not saying it would have worked (because it probably wouldn't have) but it is a thought.

EDIT:

Oops, it is directly above this post.

What if Germany and Russia allied and attacked China?

*random thought*


*is also bored*

What if Germany and Russia allied and attacked China?

*random thought*


*is also bored*

China would have had their ass shredded!

China would have had their ass shredded!

What if China allied with Japan and the Koreas?

What if China allied with Japan and the Koreas?

Your pushing it now, what I said was at least likely, this is.....stretching it a bit.

What if China allied with Japan and the Koreas?

...why exactly would China ally with the country invading them?

No idea, but if we are going to ask what if's, might as well make up some pretty crazy ideas. ;)

Why would the Poles simply allow Germany to move soldiers through their country? They wouldn't give in to German demands for the Danzig Corridor because they rightfully feared that giving into Germany would only make Poland increasingly subject to the will of Germany and eventually lose independence as the Czechs had.

That is a very good point, and I have not response for it. Like I said, I didn't think it would work either. It was just a thought.

No, Germany could have done what it did best, lie. Get the Polish government to allow German soldiers to move through their country and attack Russia, then wait a couple years, appearing to become less militarized while at the same time taking advantage of Russia vast resources and building up their military, then turn on Poland, crush it, rip apart western Europe, then throw their, now considerably mightier, military at Britain until it crumbled.

Why would the Poles simply allow Germany to move soldiers through their country? They wouldn't give in to German demands for the Danzig Corridor because they rightfully feared that giving into Germany would only make Poland increasingly subject to the will of Germany and eventually lose independence as the Czechs had.

And in response to this bordom, I am going to initiate a debate over the constantly regurgitated topic of WWII. And so it begins....

We all know that Germany invaded Poland after signing a treaty with the Soviet Union. What if Germany had not done this, and instead (when the Soviet Union was at its weakest) crushed Poland and rushed into Russia. Would this have hastened Germany's defeat or inadvertently lead to their victory?

WW2 would have been shorter...after invading Poland Britain and France would have entered the war...Germany would've attacked USSR under your scenario and begun a two front war in Russia and France in 1939...

Under this scenario though, Western Europe probably wouldn't have been as destroyed by war, keeping it pretty powerful during the Cold War...If there would have even been a Cold War...The US might not have developed a nuke...history may have been changed drastically...

No, Germany could have done what it did best, lie. Get the Polish government to allow German soldiers to move through their country and attack Russia, then wait a couple years, appearing to become less militarized while at the same time taking advantage of Russia vast resources and building up their military, then turn on Poland, crush it, rip apart western Europe, then throw their, now considerably mightier, military at Britain until it crumbled.

Germany wouldn't have beaten Britain IMO, the British were pretty determined not to surrender, and the RAF and Royal Navy beat back the Luftwaffe and the IIRC pitiful german Navy...

HOWEVER...

If Germany built up a navy, and used it to launch an invasion of USSR by the Baltic Sea, they could avoid invading Poland and drawing France and Britain into a war...But the Germans would then probably have still been beaten in USSR from IMO a lack of supplies getting to them, maybe?...How strong was the navy of the USSR?

Germany wouldn't have beaten Britain IMO, the British were pretty determined not to surrender, and the RAF and Royal Navy beat back the Luftwaffe and the IIRC pitiful german Navy...

HOWEVER...

If Germany built up a navy, and used it to launch an invasion of USSR by the Baltic Sea, they could avoid invading Poland and drawing France and Britain into a war...But the Germans would then probably have still been beaten in USSR from IMO a lack of supplies getting to them, maybe?...How strong was the navy of the USSR?

The Soviet Baltic Sea Fleet was okay, but the Kriegsmarine was better. In reality, the Kriegsmarine crippled the Baltic Fleet with mines and made the Baltic Sea a German lake.

But an amphibious assault would have been feasible; Germany did use amphibious assault on Estonia in WWI, but it was conducted in conjunction with land forces. Whether or not an amphibious attack on Russia would be successful is doubtful because, again, the logistics of maintaining such an operation would have been very difficult, if not impossible. It was a pain in the rear for the navies of the Allies to coordinate the Normandy invasion, how would you think the Germans would have fared?

And in response to this bordom, I am going to initiate a debate over the constantly regurgitated topic of WWII. And so it begins....

We all know that Germany invaded Poland after signing a treaty with the Soviet Union. What if Germany had not done this, and instead (when the Soviet Union was at its weakest) crushed Poland and rushed into Russia. Would this have hastened Germany's defeat or inadvertantly lead to their victory?

They kind of did attack Russia at its weakest. Technology that was still years behind powers like Britain, Japan, and Germany. A military leadership that was lacking in experience and afraid to act independently to tactical situations on the ground due to Stalin's purges. An air force that while high in number was laughable in capability and organization, and suffered from the same fear of taking any action without Stalin's orders.

They kind of did attack Russia at its weakest. Technology that was still years behind powers like Britain, Japan, and Germany.
Except for tanks, which were the most advanced tanks in the war, at the time of the CCCP's entrance. I believe they were surpassed by the Tiger and Panther tanks, but Germany was already losing by the time they entered production.

Except for tanks, which were the most advanced tanks in the war, at the time of the CCCP's entrance. I believe they were surpassed by the Tiger and Panther tanks, but Germany was already losing by the time they entered production.

Actually, for the most part that is not true. At the time of the invasion, most of Russia's tanks were either too slow to be of use, or were light tanks with too thin armor and too weak a gun to hurt or not be hurt by the average Panzer.

Yes, they had a small number of T-34s (compared to their entire force), but they were not deployed well, and were hampered by the fact that the commanders refused to use them without orders from Stalin, for fear of dying in another purge.