NationStates Jolt Archive

Someone from the Polish government just came with the smartest remark ever.

They said they [Poland] have the right to more seats in the European Parliament. Now they're on the sixth place, in accordance with their nation's population. (see below this post) The Polish government said that if Germany hadn't invaded them in '39, Poland would have over 63 million people instead of the 38,5 million Poland is having right now. So obviously, they have the right to more seats in the European Parliament.

Germany could use the same logic, it lost 11% of its population in WWII, including the ones who died in the bombing holocaust on Dresden. But not even including the millions of German civilians who died after the war by Soviet planned genocide and expulsion, and the many thousands who died by the allied-imposed starvation on both German POWs and civilians in the late 40s.

It would get kind of complicated if all nations started counting their deads' possible offspring as part of their population.

This isn't the first controversy under the reign of the Kaczyñski brothers (one is President of Poland other Prime Minister) running Poland.

Although I must say I wholeheartedly supported Poland's plans to remove statues and monuments of the Red Army who first invaded Poland together with Nazi Germany, and then they [Red Army] re-invaded it, plundering raping and murdering everything between Moscow and Berlin.

Germany and Poland, and the people of both of these nations are lovely. The politicians who continue to cause division in Europe are far from that. Maybe they should both read the history books better.

After all, on September the 12th 1683 it was a joint force of Poles and Germans (amongst others) who destroyed the Turkish hordes besieging Vienna.

That day they saved Europe instead of dividing it.

-------------------------------------------
seats by country (top 10 only)
[b]1: Germany -- 99
2: France -- 78
3: Italy -- 78
4: UK -- 78
5: Spain -- 54
6: Poland -- 54
7: Rumania -- 35
8: the Netherlands -- 27
10: Belgium, (also Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece and Portugal) -- 24

Yay stupidity!

Hey, the Soviet Union would have over 300 million people if it didn't break up in 1991.

What else can one expect from Poland?

What else can one expect from Poland?

Hey, I'm Polish...wait a minute, yeah, you're actually correct on that one.

I, as a pole, would like to ask this:

What else would you expect from our government? They are complete idiots, a disgrace to the nation.

Hey, the Soviet Union would have over 300 million people if it didn't break up in 1991.

Still, do you think the Soviet union would enter the EU? I for sure as hell don't.

Still, do you think the Soviet union would enter the EU? I for sure as hell don't.

Oh, hell no. Poland would still be getting screwed over under the COMECON agreements along with the rest of Eastern Europe.

Russia isn't really European anyway. It's more Asian and Baltic than European.

Last I checked, the Baltic region was still considered part of Europe.

Still, do you think the Soviet union would enter the EU? I for sure as hell don't.

Russia isn't really European anyway. It's more Asian and Baltic than European.

Russia isn't really European anyway. It's more Asian and Baltic than European.
I'll assume you're not being sarcastic, and remind you that the majority of its population lives in the European quarter.

Russia isn't really European anyway. It's more Asian and Baltic than European.

I guess I'll tell, oh, I don't know, the Baltic states that they somehow aren't European...

Condolences.

The rest of my ancestry is Russian...

They've really been acting crazier and stupider than usually lately. It would disturbing, if they weren't so inconsequential.

They're Poland. They had one "Golden Age" in their entire history, it was 400 years ago and lasted less than a century...

Hey, I'm Polish...

Condolences.

wait a minute, yeah, you're actually correct on that one.

They've really been acting crazier and stupider than usually lately. It would be disturbing, if they weren't so inconsequential.

Russia isn't really European anyway. It's more Asian and Baltic than European.

The bulk of it's population is in Europe, and it's culture is European.

You already got my condolences, what else do you want?

Warm weather? A government that doesn't use state terror? The ability to make a good alcoholic drink other than vodka?

The rest of my ancestry is Russian...

You already got my condolences, what else do you want?

They're Poland.

That says it all.

They've really been acting crazier and stupider than usually lately. It would be disturbing, if they weren't so inconsequential.

So a country consists only of its government now?

To everyone who responded to my comment, I meant in geographic terms. And you can't really say it's culture is strictly European either.

Oh yes, also, I meant to say Balkan, not Baltic. And yes the Balkans are part of Europe too.

So a country consists only of its government now?

You seem to think shit like this is somehow something new for Poland and only due to the current government. Sorry to burst your bubble (I'm not really, no), but Poland is infamous for pulling stupid crap like this.

To everyone who responded to my comment, I meant in geographic terms. And you can't really say it's culture is strictly European either.
By what standard? Eastern European cultures are now somehow magically not European?

By what standard? Eastern European cultures are now magically not European?

Hold on. Ignore all the bullshit I just posted. I was talking out of my ass.

Now let's start again...

What I meant to say is that Russia is not only European, but also Asian, and almost Middle Eastern in terms of cultural diversity and national borders. The Russian Caucasus is the perfect example of this diversity. Even if 25% of the population live in the European area of Russia, it can't be said to be a strictly European country.

P.S I lolled when I thought of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania's ambassadors suddenly being told thier not European anymore. Sorry I was on the stupid pills.

I, as a pole, would like to ask this:

What else would you expect from our government? They are complete idiots, a disgrace to the nation.There is a solution to this. I do believe Poland has a considerable history of revolutions (Albeit failed ones. But it has to succeed once)? Stay true to your roots, and put the bullet where it belongs.

Someone from the Polish government just came with the smartest remark ever.

They said they [Poland] have the right to more seats in the European Parliament. Now they're on the sixth place, in accordance with their nation's population. (see below this post) The Polish government said that if Germany hadn't invaded them in '39, Poland would have over 63 million people instead of the 38,5 million Poland is having right now. So obviously, they have the right to more seats in the European Parliament.

Germany could use the same logic, it lost 11% of its population in WWII, including the ones who died in the bombing holocaust on Dresden. But not even including the millions of German civilians who died after the war by Soviet planned genocide and expulsion, and the many thousands who died by the allied-imposed starvation on both German POWs and civilians in the late 40s.

It would get kind of complicated if all nations started counting their deads' possible offspring as part of their population.

This isn't the first controversy under the reign of the Kaczyñski brothers (one is President of Poland other Prime Minister) running Poland.

Although I must say I wholeheartedly supported Poland's plans to remove statues and monuments of the Red Army who first invaded Poland together with Nazi Germany, and then they [Red Army] re-invaded it, plundering raping and murdering everything between Moscow and Berlin.

Germany and Poland, and the people of both of these nations are lovely. The politicians who continue to cause division in Europe are far from that. Maybe they should both read the history books better.

After all, on September the 12th 1683 it was a joint force of Poles and Germans (amongst others) who destroyed the Turkish hordes besieging Vienna.

That day they saved Europe instead of dividing it.

-------------------------------------------
seats by country (top 10 only)
[b]1: Germany -- 99
2: France -- 78
3: Italy -- 78
4: UK -- 78
5: Spain -- 54
6: Poland -- 54
7: Rumania -- 35
8: the Netherlands -- 27
10: Belgium, (also Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece and Portugal) -- 24

Wait...BROTHERS are both PM and President? Does NOBODY in Poland find that wrong on more than one level?

Wait...BROTHERS are both PM and President? Does NOBODY in Poland find that wrong on more than one level?
Well, when Duck#2 was running for presidency, Duck#1 promised that if his brother wins, he'll never become PM (he was "just" the party chief then). But he promised a lot of other things and why he should deliver on this one if broke all the others?

You seem to think shit like this is somehow something new for Poland and only due to the current government. Sorry to burst your bubble (I'm not really, no), but Poland is infamous for pulling stupid crap like this.
You sick Swedes eat herrings with jam. That's worse. :rolleyes:

Hold on. Ignore all the bullshit I just posted. I was talking out of my ass.

Now let's start again...

What I meant to say is that Russia is not only European, but also Asian, and almost Middle Eastern in terms of cultural diversity and national borders. The Russian Caucasus is the perfect example of this diversity. Even if 25% of the population live in the European area of Russia, it can't be said to be a strictly European country.

P.S I lolled when I thought of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania's ambassadors suddenly being told thier not European anymore. Sorry I was on the stupid pills.

Most of the people in Russia are ethnically Russian (about 80%). Ethnic Russians are white eastern Europeans, comprising eastern part of Russia and settled without the country (the fact that Siberia is all eskimos and such is a myth). There are also many others from eastern European cultures. This makes the amount of ethnic Euros in the country very high. Non-European cultures and ethnicities make up a very small fraction of the country.

This is stupidity commensurate to an apology for slavery.

A lot of things could have happened. It doesn't mean you factor it into what the reality is. Poland will simply have to come to grips with the fact that they simply aren't a power in Europe worth mentioning.

Hell, I don't think I'd ever even think of that country at all if it wasn't for Bush and his "you forgot Poland" remark. :p

Looks like that due to Paris Hilton being in prison, the media atention has drifted to Poland´s quest for atention whoring.

This is actually so needlessly inflammatory that it's hilarious. I wish I'd thought of this argument back when my European politics class was doing its EU simulation game.

Looks like that due to Paris Hilton being in prison, the media atention has drifted to Poland´s quest for atention whoring.

Well Paris is more interesting then Poland and that is really saying something.

There is no such thing as Polish people, only Russian and German soldiers.

This is actually so needlessly inflammatory that it's hilarious. I wish I'd thought of this argument back when my European politics class was doing its EU simulation game.

What's so inflammatory?

What I meant to say is that Russia is not only European, but also Asian, and almost Middle Eastern in terms of cultural diversity and national borders. The Russian Caucasus is the perfect example of this diversity. Even if 25% of the population live in the European area of Russia, it can't be said to be a strictly European country..

See, the reason Russia seems to have so much territory is Asia is because they never really lost their empire in Asia.

A lot of things could have happened. It doesn't mean you factor it into what the reality is. Poland will simply have to come to grips with the fact that they simply aren't a power in Europe worth mentioning.

Yeah. Like if the Nazis never started WWII, the Soviets would have, and Poland would now be a barren wasteland used for nuclear testing.

So, the Nazis sorta did Poland a favour.

There is no such thing as Polish people, only Russian and German soldiers.

How is that, again? :p I'm pretty sure Poles exist.

By what standard? Eastern European cultures are now magically not European?But what is 'European' though? I sure as hell don't know.

What with there being so many different parts of Europe (Scandanavia, Western Europe, Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, Central Europe, and the Balkans), it's hard to define what is European. Meh.

I, as a pole, would like to ask this:

What else would you expect from our government? They are complete idiots, a disgrace to the nation.

Oh horror! Seeking more political power for one's nation no matter what the excuse!... wait, isn't that what ALL politicians do?

How is that, again? :p I'm pretty sure Poles exist.
Ah yes. The North Pole and the South Pole. Can't have a magnet without 'em.

Ah yes. The North Pole and the South Pole. Can't have a magnet without 'em.

Where I'm from, using "Pollack" could get you a black eye. :p Though I understand it's similar to the Polish word for Pole. Anyway, I use Pole out of habit. :p

Where I'm from, using "Pollack" could get you a black eye. :p Though I understand it's similar to the Polish word for Pole. Anyway, I use Pole out of habit. :p
Poor People of Poland. You call them poles, a magnet in a snowy wasteland comes to mind. Call them Polish, it's like something I use to wipe my tables and floors with. Pollack... my mind conjures up images of splotchy abstract "art". Can't really think of 'em after all.

Poland will simply have to come to grips with the fact that they simply aren't a power in Europe worth mentioning.

Hell, I don't think I'd ever even think of that country at all if it wasn't for Bush and his "you forgot Poland" remark. :p

I don't recall that reference. Was it big news Stateside or something?

You seem to think shit like this is somehow something new for Poland and only due to the current government. Sorry to burst your bubble (I'm not really, no), but Poland is infamous for pulling stupid crap like this.

No, actually you're only confusing me. Maybe if you want to get your point across, you should give an example. And that means an example, not a racist joke.

I think Germany should offer a compromise: Poland will get their extra votes as soon as they return to their 1938 borders. ;)

well, Poland does have something of a history of doing silly things and getting overrun...

when napoleon was just getting going, for example, Poland was at war with most of it's neighbors.... apparently a war they started. it got carved up between Russia and it's neighbors, and the French somehow ended up with a lot of polish soldiers [specifically polish lancers, or uhlans] because napoleon was the only one willing to even Promise to re-create Poland.. everyone else was of the opinion that the maps looked very nice without it :)

as a sort-of example.

I don't recall that reference. Was it big news Stateside or something?

In one of the '04 debates Kerry mentioned that the countries who signed up with our "coalition of the willing" wasn't that impressive and he listed the pathetic list and Bush then stood up and said "you forgot Poland".

Really tore Kerry a new one I tell ya. :rolleyes:

The details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_forgot_Poland

In one of the '04 debates Kerry mentioned that the countries who signed up with our "coalition of the willing" wasn't that impressive and he listed the pathetic list and Bush then stood up and said "you forgot Poland".

Really tore Kerry a new one I tell ya. :rolleyes:

The details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_forgot_Poland

That's just sad.

But what is 'European' though? I sure as hell don't know.

What with there being so many different parts of Europe (Scandanavia, Western Europe, Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, Central Europe, and the Balkans), it's hard to define what is European. Meh.
Western Europe (and by this I mean any European country west of Poland, Scandinavia and many southern European countries) is defined by the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, phenomena which had little to no impact on the eastern department of the continent. The problem is that some people conflate Western European with European, and thereby end up excluding Eastern Europe from being European. The truth of the matter is that Eastern Europe simply has a different cultural background to Western Europe, which in no way makes it non-European (something that would be impossible anyway, since these countries or the mass of their inhabitants are in Europe).

well, Poland does have something of a history of doing silly things and getting overrun... when napoleon was just getting going, for example, Poland was at war with most of it's neighbors.... apparently a war they started.
You really should check your facts before you post - nothing you wrote above is correct. Poland did not exist as a sovereign nation during Napoleonic era, it was partitioned by its neighbouring states Russia, Habsburg Austria and Germany. They attacked Poland when it was in the middle of much needed reforms, incuding written Constitution of 1791, the second one in the world, as they did not want the Commonwealth to become stronger.
The Poles sided with the Napoleon because he was an enemy of their enemies and part of Poland regained sovereignity for a short time as the Duchy of Warsaw (1807-1815).

What else can one expect from Poland?

Kielbasa.

Western Europe (and by this I mean any European country west of Poland, Scandinavia and many southern European countries) is defined by the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, phenomena which had little to no impact on the eastern department of the continent.

Y'know, Renaissance and Enlightenment had a bit more than "little to no" impact on Poland.

Kielbasa.

Pierogies, too. They're fantastic with Kielbasa.

Pierogies, too. They're fantastic with Kielbasa.

Three things, so far, we may expect from Poland.

Three things, so far, we may expect from Poland.
Vodka. Don't forget the vodka.
And helping to win the battle when odds are against you - for example the Battle of Britain with a fighter squadron that had the most kills.
Or maybe the most numerous people's antitotalitarian movement in the history of mankind.
And I don't know, maybe a Nobel prize winner or two? Or several. But no, first thing people think about is kielbasa. That says volumes - but not about Poland.

Vodka. Don't forget the vodka.
And helping to win the battle when odds are against you - for example the Battle of Britain with a fighter squadron that had the most kills.
Or maybe the most numerous people's antitotalitarian movement in the history of mankind.
And I don't know, maybe a Nobel prize winner or two? Or several. But no, first thing people think about is kielbasa. That says volumes - but not about Poland.

Isn't it called Wodka in Poland?

I swear I've had a glass of Polish Wodka...

Isn't it called Wodka in Poland?
I swear I've had a glass of Polish Wodka...
Yes, wódka. It's pronounced "voodka" and if you had a glass of it you had quite an experience ;). I mean, glass is quarter liter (or half pint), anything less is just a shot :).

Yes, wódka. It's pronounced "voodka" and if you had a glass of it you had quite an experience ;). I mean, glass is quarter liter (or half pint), anything less is just a shot :).

in a shot glass

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Poland should shut the hell up.

Its new, it needs to stop making such stupid demands.

Then again the EU is messing around the richer countries anyway.

Yes, wódka. It's pronounced "voodka" and if you had a glass of it you had quite an experience ;). I mean, glass is quarter liter (or half pint), anything less is just a shot :).

Odd, I remember being handed the glass but I don't remember the experience.

You really should check your facts before you post - nothing you wrote above is correct. Poland did not exist as a sovereign nation during Napoleonic era, it was partitioned by its neighbouring states Russia, Habsburg Austria and Germany. They attacked Poland when it was in the middle of much needed reforms, incuding written Constitution of 1791, the second one in the world, as they did not want the Commonwealth to become stronger.
The Poles sided with the Napoleon because he was an enemy of their enemies and part of Poland regained sovereignity for a short time as the Duchy of Warsaw (1807-1815).

oh, i wouldn't say Nothing i just said was right, but i believe i mentioned that i was going from memory and could be wrong [or i intended to]

.... need i mention that Germany didn't exist as a sovereign nation in the Napoleonic era, by the way? it was a bunch of separate states. closest you get to 'Germany' is Prussia. Germany hadn't existed for quite a while by that point, if i remember rightly, and wouldn't exist again for a while longer still.

i never was much good at dates, anyway. blame it on a few 'Napoleonic' games that start a bit before Napoleon then. oh, and war gamers who are borderline anal retentive about history telling me that Poland it's self started at least some of the wars it got caught in at the time. *shrugs*

entirely possible I'm wrong, of course, or you are, or anyone else. 'tis life. but... you know, 'don't have a cow, man'.

What's so inflammatory?

"Confrontational" is probably a better word than "inflammatory" now that I think about it. Blaming Germany of '39 for the fact that they're getting screwed over now seems to serve no purpose but to take shots at Germany. I don't know, there's just something comical about an argument that amounts to "We'd have 63 million people, but you killed all our dudez."

I agree with you. I am wondering what the twins are planing to make of Poland.

europe should just go back to the kingdoms it had in the 1600's (http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1600.htm)

lets relive history