NationStates Jolt Archive

Just in case anyone cares.

A few days ago the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) signed a deal to purchase three Spanish F100 frigates (with a possibilty to buy a fourth) and two amphibous assault ships. The ships will be built largely in Australia and be modified to better suit Australian requirements. The total cost of program will be about A$11 billion.

It sounds to me that once these ships are in service Australia will be quite the force to reckoned with in the South Pacific. Coupled with New Zealand's new amphibous ship and upgraded frigates, it appears that the new naitons are developing a pretty hardy capability to project power in the region. A good thing given the unrest in Timor and Paupa New Guinea and the general lack of interest the US and EU have in the area.

Source (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10446863&pnum=0)

Also, the irony of an American posting an article on Australian Navy from a source in New Zealand is not lost on me.

It might just be me (heck it probably is just me) but doesn't buying spanish warships not seem like a good idea after about 1700? Or since they lost hegemony in America?

I was rooting for the Spanish designs so I was happy when I saw this in the paper a few days ago. Considering that our navy never really does that much fighting I reckon it'll be more useful having more ships instead of more powerful ships.

It might just be me (heck it probably is just me) but doesn't buying spanish warships not seem like a good idea after about 1700? Or since they lost hegemony in America?

Well the F100s are proably the most capable frigates afloat right now, though calling them a destroyer is a stretch.

Personally I'm partial to the Burke or its derivatives, but the F100 offers good capability for a reasonable cost (I use upgraded Burkes and F100 for my NS Navy).

Some info on the ships in question:
Air Warfare Destroyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Air_Warfare_Destroyer)
F100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvaro_de_Baz%C3%A1n_class_frigate)
Arleigh Burke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke_class_destroyer)
Spanish amphibous assault ship being purchased by Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buque_de_Proyecci%C3%B3n_Estrat%C3%A9gica)

The ships will be built largely in Australia and be modified to better suit Australian requirements.

My city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Submarine_Corporation) too :D

After seeing how badly the Spaniards fucked up on the dearly beloved C-96 Broomhandle Mouser, I sure wouldn't trust them to build an entire ship.

Waste of money, those things can carry 23 Abrams each, yet in all of Australia we only have like 10.

The U.S ones are more powerful (and possible more upgradeable but the spanish ones probably will be able to be upgraded to with future british, french, german and most definately spanish hardware/software) but at twice the cost there isn't much point in buying them (more subs would be a better choice).

It is showing the large military buildup the Australia is going through. I am not too sure it is the best thing to be doing that.

It is showing the large military buildup the Australia is going through. I am not too sure it is the best thing to be doing that.

Especially considering the government's history of buying stuff that doesn't work :rolleyes:

Also what do we actually use our navy for? Someone tell me because I don't really know. Are we doing much more with it apart from catching fishermen and peacekeeping?

Especially considering the government's history of buying stuff that doesn't work :rolleyes:

Also what do we actually use our navy for? Someone tell me because I don't really know. Are we doing much more with it apart from catching fishermen and peacekeeping?

Possible naval showdown with China. In conjuction with the US navy and the rest of the allies that would fight in a regional war vs China. Not saying that a war with China is imminent or even going to happen. But I would bet this is a buildup along those lines though.

My city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Submarine_Corporation) too :D

Doesn't Adelaide have most of the military production areas?

Wait, the federal government wants to try to privatise it?

Waste of money, those things can carry 23 Abrams each, yet in all of Australia we only have like 10.

We have about 59 abrams tanks...

Three ships are AA destroyers and the other 2 are amphibious ships are massive. They can hold (wiki provided) 978 embarked troops and 2000 square meters worth of vehicle space along with 11 helicopters.

If we parked each tank about 1m from each other than each ship could carry about 35-40 tanks.

Also what do we actually use our navy for? Someone tell me because I don't really know. Are we doing much more with it apart from catching fishermen and peacekeeping?

Our air force and navy is more important to securing the borders than the military is.

Then again someone has to keep the penguin hordes at bay...

I say we just have up until 2020 and just stack up on strategic air defense in the form of around 300 F35s or more, to fund this we need cutbacks in the useless and expensive hardware that doesn't work.

The F35 is better suited to a battlefield support role. It is not the be all and end all of jet fighters. It doesn't even have the base eange of the F111.

If we ever try to have a jet fighter carrier or at least have the capability for it on the troop/tank transport ships then the F35b (naval version) would be probably the best for it.

For mainland defense (which requires moving along vast distances) or for strike from the mainland (which also requires vast distances) the F35 will show problems.

so which imperialist adventure do you think the new found wealth of Spain will be paying for!:p (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55531)

on a serious note these new ships will prove very useful in there new role of sinking those refugee boats after the fiasco of the dingy rafts being upgraded to fully armed bathtubs

My city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Submarine_Corporation) too :D

but Station in my city :D

so which imperialist adventure do you think the new found wealth of Spain will be paying for!:p (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55531)

on a serious note these new ships will prove very useful in there new role of sinking those refugee boats after the fiasco of the dingy rafts being upgraded to fully armed bathtubs
That's actually frightening as Howard ran last election on the notion that all unauthorized refugees (even those fleeing the Indonesian military, horrible poverty) are somehow combatants invading the country.

Especially considering the government's history of buying stuff that doesn't work :rolleyes:

Also what do we actually use our navy for? Someone tell me because I don't really know. Are we doing much more with it apart from catching fishermen and peacekeeping?

Along that line of thinking, Canada should buy one to compliment our new Halifax class frigates to be stationed on the East coast and tasked with territorial enforcement.

Not because the F100 is a whole lot better, but rather because Spain is historically one of the worst offenders at overfishing in and around our territorial waters so it would be poetic justice to do interdiction with one of their own boats.

On the other hand, I should point out that sales like this annoy me because there has been little attempt by Canada to market the Halifax class overseas. We spend billions in tax dollars to come up with our design in-house, build our ships, and then call it quits. Almost no attempts made to recoup R&D costs whatsoever by marketing the design elsewhere. I mean, given Australia's patrolling areas extend south into heavy seas around antarctica - the fact that the Halifax class was specifically designed for similar weather (north atlantic heavy seas and brash ice) might have been a pretty good selling point....

Yah the Halifax is quietly ignored by all in and out of Canada, despite being one of the best designs in the world. They are capable of being seamlessly integrated into US naval formations due to co-operative electronics packages we build and are the only ships capable of doing so.

May not be a great selling point to lots of people or considering the US' behaviour lately, but it sure does come in handy for us and I think Australia could appreciate that as well.

They stand on their own otherwise as top notch world class ships.

I think it's a pity Australia is stockpiling the Abrams. The Leopard 2 series is a much nicer family of tanks better suited to the peacekeeping duties expected of the Australian army.

Not to mention it would be a logical step up from the old Leopard 1 used by Australia prior to the decision to purchase the Abrams.

Video of Spanish F100's in action.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f7_1175588747

Screw the frigates. I say we go to the Russians and purchase a nuclear powered battlecruiser. If they don't sell it to us, we'll invade and steal Kirov. We can take them. *nods*

Screw the frigates. I say we go to the Russians and purchase a nuclear powered battlecruiser.

You'll have to help the Russians find it first.

You'll have to help the Russians find it first.

someone got drunk and forgot where they parked it did they

Screw the frigates. I say we go to the Russians and purchase a nuclear powered battlecruiser. If they don't sell it to us, we'll invade and steal Kirov. We can take them. *nods*

Sweet. We Canadians will join in on the invasion and we'll take the Pyotr Velikiy and you guys can take the Admiral Nakhimov.

My city (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Submarine_Corporation) too :D

After seeing how badly the Spaniards fucked up on the dearly beloved C-96 Broomhandle Mouser, I sure wouldn't trust them to build an entire ship.

They're going to be built in Melbourne too. The Spanish won't actually build any of them.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Navy-to-get-new-advanced-warships/2007/06/20/1182019147106.html

Especially considering the government's history of buying stuff that doesn't work :rolleyes:

Also what do we actually use our navy for? Someone tell me because I don't really know. Are we doing much more with it apart from catching fishermen and peacekeeping?

I think it's for keeping the Kiwis in line. If they start to get uppity, we send our Navy over the Tasman. I'm looking at you Harlesburg & Monkeypimp! ;)

someone got drunk and forgot where they parked it did they

The Russian military is notorious for losing track of resources. Tanks, planes, missiles and even a small number of suitcase sized nuclear devices have been lost in the bureacracy.

Sweet. We Canadians will join in on the invasion and we'll take the Pyotr Velikiy and you guys can take the Admiral Nakhimov.

Take your pick. Like I said, the Russians probably won't even realise it's missing... >_>;

Hell, they might not even realise they've been invaded. They're all concentrating on the ABM system in central Europe.

The Russian military is notorious for losing track of resources. Tanks, planes, missiles and even a small number of suitcase sized nuclear devices have been lost in the bureacracy.

it's just a mazing they last that long

Take your pick. Like I said, the Russians probably won't even realise it's missing... >_>;

Hell, they might not even realise they've been invaded. They're all concentrating on the ABM system in central Europe
what a about good looking babes, you think they miss the ones that the single man bring from said trip

Ah, the Spanish. We fought an 80 year war with them and won.

And by war I mean small guerilla like attacks.

And by fought I mean that the Spanish had been walking in the mud, water and rain for all those years before they decided to go home.

Fear us.:p

There's power in that. Who really wants to spend 80 years in the mud?

pigs.....

Ah, the Spanish. We fought an 80 year war with them and won.

And by war I mean small guerilla like attacks.

And by fought I mean that the Spanish had been walking in the mud, water and rain for all those years before they decided to go home.

Fear us.:p

There's power in that. Who really wants to spend 80 years in the mud?

pigs.....
LG:p
There's power in that. Who really wants to spend 80 years in the mud?Well, we only won because they got bored and tired, I guess.:p

LG:p
Well, we only won because they got bored and tired, I guess.:p

As any football coach/manager will tell you, a win is a win, no matter how it happens.

I think it's a pity Australia is stockpiling the Abrams. The Leopard 2 series is a much nicer family of tanks better suited to the peacekeeping duties expected of the Australian army.

Not to mention it would be a logical step up from the old Leopard 1 used by Australia prior to the decision to purchase the Abrams.

The Leo2A6 (the one with the better gun system, the previous ones have a gune system the same as the Abrams) would be the best choice for that then.

They're going to be built in Melbourne too. The Spanish won't actually build any of them.

We have military constuction areas?

I think it's for keeping the Kiwis in line. If they start to get uppity, we send our Navy over the Tasman. I'm looking at you Harlesburg & Monkeypimp! ;)

You keep forgetting the Penguin threat!

NOBODY,... expects the Spanish Armada.

The Spanish do.

I doubt the average party goers on Ibiza don't tho.

NOBODY,... expects the Spanish Armada.

The Spanish do.

As any football coach/manager will tell you, a win is a win, no matter how it happens.
Except here, we have to play beautifull football because anything else isn't good enough. Even a 3-0 victory with fugly football isn't good....

So, does anybody know who decided on this? Did the defence department do the years-long report suggesting we buy these or did Howard meet up with the Spanish President and then coincidentally a few weeks later dismissed the report which still had a few years to be completed and decide recklessly on them, as he did with the Joint Strike Fighters?

Possible naval showdown with China. In conjuction with the US navy and the rest of the allies that would fight in a regional war vs China. Not saying that a war with China is imminent or even going to happen. But I would bet this is a buildup along those lines though.

I doubt this has really entered any rationale for the purchase.

I think they were chosen because they were half the cost and were actually capable of being built now, rather than waiting a few more years.

The JSF purchase decision has been put of until 2008, though they will probably be bought.

It is a shame, if we only get the naval version I'd say it would have a largely impeccable reputation.

so which imperialist adventure do you think the new found wealth of Spain will be paying for!:p (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55531)

on a serious note these new ships will prove very useful in there new role of sinking those refugee boats after the fiasco of the dingy rafts being upgraded to fully armed bathtubs

Ah. Ah haha hahaha. Hee-hee-hee!
*chuckle*

Thanks for my first NSG laugh in quite a while!

I think it's a pity Australia is stockpiling the Abrams. The Leopard 2 series is a much nicer family of tanks better suited to the peacekeeping duties expected of the Australian army.

Not to mention it would be a logical step up from the old Leopard 1 used by Australia prior to the decision to purchase the Abrams.

Actually a few years ago Germany offered Australia a large number of refurbished Leopards and Marder IFVs. Of course they were turned down in favor of M113s and Abrams.

While the Abrams is the better tank for killing other tanks, the Leopard is proably a better choice for infantry support and peacekeeping duties and the Marder is a good, if somewhat old, IFV.

Also, on the subject of the Halifax, while they're good as ASW platforms they aren't particularly great at AAW. Since the new design was for an Air Warfare Destroyer and the F100 is FAR better at this, I'd say it was a good choice.