NationStates Jolt Archive


Moderators convicted of hate speech for comment made on their forums.

Zarakon
22-06-2007, 22:19
Bloody hard to run a forum in Sweden – Lawyer speaks
Legal unrealities
By Mikael Pawlo → More by this author
Published Thursday 28th March 2002 16:00 GMT
Wireless Email Solutions - Free whitepaper

(Mikael Pawlo is Associate, Advokatfirman Lindahl, working with Internet law issues for Aftonbladet Nya Medier.

In a recent ruling by the district court of Stockholm, the publisher of the Swedish daily Aftonbladet was found guilty of hate speech and sentenced to a conditional sentence and fines. An anonymous user in a moderated forum on the Aftonbladet web site uttered the hate speech.

It has been debated whether the speech was removed from the forum quickly enough or not, but that is an issue not dealt with in this case. According
to the court the crime was committed immediately upon publication.

The legal situation in Sweden regarding freedom of speech on the Internet is ambiguous. According to the laws regulating freedom of speech, the publisher has a strict accountability for everything published in his
paper. Only during extreme circumstances should the publisher escape accountability. When it comes to the Internet, the publisher of a web forum can be held accountable if he is a registered publisher and works
for a media company.

All serious media companies in Sweden have a registered publisher for their Internet editions. In the popular debate, it is often argued that the accountability of the publisher should be
different depending on whether moderation is made before or after the publication.

If the moderation is made after publication, the publisher should - according to this line of reasoning - never be held accountable for the speech published in the Internet forums. The law of freedom of expression does not deal with this particular issue, and while there are no precedents it is hard to tell with certainty what the law is. However, for commercial and ethical reasons, few serious publishers would run an
un-moderated forum. Without moderation, the forums for a major publication like Aftonbladet would contain massive amount of hate speech.

Why is this a problem? Should not the publisher be accountable for the web edition in the same fashion he is responsible for the printed edition? You
could argue that a responsible publisher should not publish irresponsible content, like hate speech. However, such an approach will carry some
negative aspects. This will inevitably lead to a situation where the free speech aspects of the Internet are not embraced.

A publisher can easily edit five pieces submitted to an editorial or opinion section in a printed edition, but he can not possibly edit 5.000 pieces submitted to the same section online. At least not if he will be held strictly accountable for everything published.

Hence, this will lead to a more restrictive policy
on what will be published on the Internet. The 5,000 pieces can not be published, since they need thorough editing. The debate among peers will die or move to other forums, not run by serious and established
publishers. From an economical viewpoint, media companies aiming at a higher standard for their forums through moderation will not be able to run open forums in the same fashion non-media companies may. This will
create asymmetries in the market place. It is a side issue, but the all companies running forums on the Internet should compete on the same terms,
notwithstanding legal technicalities.

I do not think the district court ruling was wrong in legal terms. However, I think we need to consider the legal realities of Internet publication. Maybe the law needs to be changed in order to preserve freedom of speech on the Internet.

To me it makes sense to make every user responsible for his or her speech combined with notice and takedown legislation. This will ultimately lead
to a situation where Internet anonymity can not be preserved. However, the publisher should only disclose the identity of a user in extreme cases of hate speech and other legally defined harmful content. The publisher should be held liable upon non-removal of hate speech upon notification.

Notice and takedown policies are very hard to deal with in practice. A publisher facing a notice and takedown challenge will in most cases remove
the content in question in order to escape responsibility. However, a serious publisher can distinguish between non-contentious notices and
unreasonable notices. If the media companies and their publishers are held accountable for everything published in their web forums we will soon face
an Internet where the possibility of a widened debate has been seriously damaged by law. Let us grasp the uniqueness of the Internet before it is gone. The Internet is not a newspaper. ®

Oh, gee, you caught me. I'm actually out to get Fass. Yes, that must be it. I should've realized it! I'm surprised! Are you surprised?
UNITIHU
22-06-2007, 22:23
I know of an unmoderated board, I know it very well actually. ;)
United Chicken Kleptos
22-06-2007, 22:24
I'm pretty far to the left, but I really dislike hate speech laws.

Same here.
The_pantless_hero
22-06-2007, 22:24
Failure to modernize old standards and laws to advances in technology strikes again!
Deus Malum
22-06-2007, 22:25
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/28/bloody_hard_to_run/

Apparently Sweden isn't as great compared to the US as Fass makes it out to be.

So, other than stroking Fass' ego in the thought that someone would direct an entire thread his way (Again!), what in the bloody fuck is the point of this thread?
Tsumara
22-06-2007, 22:25
I'm pretty far to the left, but I really dislike hate speech laws.
Johnny B Goode
22-06-2007, 22:26
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/28/bloody_hard_to_run/

Apparently Sweden isn't as great compared to the US as Fass makes it out to be.

That's BS. The user is the one who's at fault.
IL Ruffino
22-06-2007, 22:29
So, other than stroking Fass' ego in the thought that someone would direct an entire thread his way (Again!), what in the bloody fuck is the point of this thread?

Oh, no, Fass is the only reason he posted this.

"Oh hey! Look at this negative article about the country Fass lives in!"
Zarakon
22-06-2007, 22:30
If only Stormfront was Swedish.......

Stormfront? Explain.
Ifreann
22-06-2007, 22:30
If only Stormfront was Swedish.......
Zarakon
22-06-2007, 22:31
Oh, no, Fass is the only reason he posted this.

"Oh hey! Look at this negative article about the country Fass lives in!"

No, actually I posted it because it's an interesting article about the restriction of free speech.

But thank you for just assuming I'm a one-dimensional cardboard cutout whose only feature is a dislike of Fass.
Deus Malum
22-06-2007, 22:33
No, actually I posted it because it's an interesting article about the restriction of free speech.

But thank you for just assuming I'm a one-dimensional cardboard cutout whose only feature is a dislike of Fass.

Ah, I see. So it was a two-fer for you. You get to start a discussion AND think you've nailed Fass on the "Hah, your country sucks as much as my country" point of attack.

What a waste of time.
The Blaatschapen
22-06-2007, 22:34
Failure to modernize old standards and laws to advances in technology strikes again!

Yup, it happens all the time, and actually I want to get a job in the field of fixing this (a bit) :)
Zarakon
22-06-2007, 22:35
Ah, I see. So it was a two-fer for you. You get to start a discussion AND think you've nailed Fass on the "Hah, your country sucks as much as my country" point of attack.

What a waste of time.

This thread is pointless. No one is discussing the real issue, and are only bashing me. I'm just going to give up on this thread.

Feel free to continue bashing me in my absence.
Seathornia
22-06-2007, 22:37
Stormfront? Explain.

It'd be illegal, you see, and they'd be held legally and therefore both ethically and financially responsible.
Fassigen
23-06-2007, 09:16
Published Thursday 28th March 2002

You couldn't find any older "news"?

I mean, there's been a bit of press this week on how the minister for foreign affairs has become subject of a preliminary investigation under this law after he failed to remove agitation to genocide someone posted to his blog for months even after he was made aware of them not just by posters to his blog, but by the media as well... but, I guess some sort of current news is much too much to expect from you.

This thread is pointless. No one is discussing the real issue, and are only bashing me. I'm just going to give up on this thread.

Feel free to continue bashing me in my absence.

Aww, backfire much? There, there, I'm sure your little tantrum made you feel all better.
The Brevious
23-06-2007, 09:18
Published Thursday 28th March 2002

You couldn't find any older "news"?

I mean, there's been a bit of press this week on how the minister for foreign affairs has become subject of a preliminary investigation under this law after he failed to remove agitation to genocide someone posted to his blog for months even after he was made aware of them not just by posters to his blog, but by the media as well... but, I guess some sort of current news is much too much to expect from you.



Aww, backfire much? There, there, I'm sure your little tantrum made you feel all better.Well you are, admittedly, a bit bitchy about other peoples' "regional" news issues they bring up.
Fassigen
23-06-2007, 09:24
Well you are, admittedly, a bit bitchy about other peoples' "regional" news issues they bring up.

I didn't bring this up... so?
The Brevious
23-06-2007, 09:25
I didn't bring this up... so?

I didn't imply you brought it up.
It might be a consideration, however, that you've irked Zarakon in past efforts on their part to bring up some sort of news item/reference/resource with your attitude towards the "regional" nature of it.
You've certainly done so with me, i've just dealt with it differently, it would appear.
Fassigen
23-06-2007, 09:29
I didn't imply you brought it up.
It might be a consideration, however, that you've irked Zarakon in past efforts on their part to bring up some sort of news item/reference/resource with your attitude towards the "regional" nature of it.
You've certainly done so with me, i've just dealt with it differently, it would appear.

This comment is relevant to this thread how exactly?
Philosopy
23-06-2007, 09:29
Published Thursday 28th March 2002

You couldn't find any older "news"?

I believe this still counts as 'current', such is the pace of life in Sweden and the frequency with which news stories emerge.
The Brevious
23-06-2007, 09:31
This comment is relevant to this thread how exactly?

Need be so obtuse? :rolleyes:
Why do you think the OP is the way it is?
Philosopy
23-06-2007, 09:35
Why do you think the OP is the way it is?

I'm going to agree with those people who called it 'Fass baiting'.
Anti-Social Darwinism
23-06-2007, 09:35
You know, I dislike Fass as much as anyone, but be fair. He didn't enact the law and he's not the one enforcing it. Although I'm sure he'll find a way to blame it on us Americans.
Fassigen
23-06-2007, 09:37
I believe this still counts as 'current', such is the pace of life in Sweden and the frequency with which news stories emerge.

I guess you must not have heard of the pickled herring row of 2004. That's at least one thing I can think of that's happened in the half decade since the OP's "news" occurred... oh, and don't forget the Danish elk border incursion of 2003! That one was a doozy. I was almost ready not to coat my wienerbröd with chocolate!
Philosopy
23-06-2007, 09:38
I guess you must not have heard of the pickled herring row of 2004. That's at least one thing I can think of that's happened in the half decade since the OP's "news" occurred... oh, and don't forget the Danish elk border incursion of 2003! That one was a doozy. I was almost ready not to coat my wienerbröd with chocolate!

Pfft. I pity you for living in such a boring country. Life is so much more exciting when you have leaders who invade third world nations, mess around with domestic systems and ignore the electorate, causing you to wonder who is going to blow you up this week when you go about your daily life.

Thinking about it, perhaps 'exciting' isn't the word I'm looking for...
Fassigen
23-06-2007, 09:40
Need be so obtuse? :rolleyes:

Are you asking yourself?

Why do you think the OP is the way it is?

Because the OP didn't.
The Brevious
23-06-2007, 09:43
Are you asking yourself?That's the kind of time we all have, apparently. :rolleyes:

Because the OP didn't.
OP didn't bring it up?
I'm going to agree with those people who called it 'Fass baiting'.It would appear they got it.
The Brevious
23-06-2007, 09:46
I'm going to agree with those people who called it 'Fass baiting'.

Well, we should expect the Modforum to bring it up presently then. Don't wanna piss anyone off or anything.
Fassigen
23-06-2007, 09:54
OP didn't bring it up?

Op didn't think.
United Beleriand
23-06-2007, 09:55
Is creationism hate speech?
Gravlen
23-06-2007, 10:32
For the OP, for what it's worth:

What's the point? Do you know if the case was appealed? Any subsequent cases or changes to the law? Any news in the last five years?

I guess you must not have heard of the pickled herring row of 2004. That's at least one thing I can think of that's happened in the half decade since the OP's "news" occurred... oh, and don't forget the Danish elk border incursion of 2003! That one was a doozy. I was almost ready not to coat my wienerbröd with chocolate!
:p
Pfft. I pity you for living in such a boring country. Life is so much more exciting when you have leaders who invade third world nations, mess around with domestic systems and ignore the electorate, causing you to wonder who is going to blow you up this week when you go about your daily life.

Thinking about it, perhaps 'exciting' isn't the word I'm looking for...
:p
Demented Hamsters
23-06-2007, 10:54
This thread is pointless. No one is discussing the real issue, and are only bashing me. I'm just going to give up on this thread.

Feel free to continue bashing me in my absence.
alrighty then.
Zarakon smells of wee.
Zarakon has a weird high-pitched nasal laugh.
Zarakon butt-flosses.
Zarakon boogieboards when everyone else surfs.
Zarakon wears his underpants inside-out.
Katganistan
23-06-2007, 14:39
Oh, why don't you all grow up.