NationStates Jolt Archive

FIFA fails.

and who ever believed FIFA is fair anyways..

here is a utube of the incident:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Derbyshire/video/x2atlm_england-2-0-serbia-derbyshire
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0QwKL5LueHo

comments?

Crazy, I missed that. Good that we won from the English :)

Hard for me to tell on the video, but it looks like Derbyshire when the ball was passed, making it a legal pass. The Serbian anger is understandable, but it doesn't look (on low-resolution recordings) like England made an illegal play - just a very good one.

Not sure what your point is?

England scored, the goal stood - end of story. That player hardly had a life threatening injury - he seemed to be sat up holding his leg.

I bet you 100% that the Serbs would have done EXACTLY the same thing and carried on playing.

They also seem to behave like their fans, who seemed to have modelled themselves on English fans of the 80's - racist thugs

Crazy, I missed that. Good that we won from the English :)LOL
Those penalty shootouts reminded me of that British mouse city movie :D

Hard for me to tell on the video, but it looks like Derbyshire when the ball was passed, making it a legal pass. The Serbian anger is understandable, but it doesn't look (on low-resolution recordings) like England made an illegal play - just a very good one.

It was legal, but unlike what the commentators on one of the videos said he didn't go down just as the ball was played he'd been down for a while before that.

You can't make sportsmanship a rule, but if a player's down before you've even started attacking you should put it out of play IMHO.

Hard for me to tell on the video, but it looks like Derbyshire when the ball was passed, making it a legal pass. The Serbian anger is understandable, but it doesn't look (on low-resolution recordings) like England made an illegal play - just a very good one.It was NOT illegal.
but it could be a black eye on England's sportsmanships efforts.

It was NOT illegal.
but it could be a black eye on England's sportsmanships efforts.

Serbia should have let England look bad instead of reacting so badly. This whole thing makes both teams look bad

They also seem to behave like their fans, who seemed to have modelled themselves on English fans of the 80's - racist thugsthats bad.

FIFA aren't going to rule out a legal goal. Bad sportsmanship? Possibly, but it's in no way against the rules - players aren't obliged to kick the ball out. And anyway, the Serbs would've done the same.

Serbia should have let England look bad instead of reacting so badly. I was a strong reaction, but I was a controlled reaction, I think I should have reacted the same way.

The videos shows no punches or kicks (or anything like that).. like Ive seen so many times in football

FIFA aren't going to rule out a legal goal. Servia did not need to win this game, so It makes no difference for Servia.

I was a strong reaction, but I was a controlled reaction, I think I should have reacted the same way.

The videos shows no punches or kicks (or anything like that).. like Ive seen so many times in football

The Serbian's behaviour was pretty disgraceful. Granted, they were angry, but there was no need to round on Derbyshire like that. I thought the England players reacted quite well.

Servia did not need to win this game, so It makes no difference for Servia.

Yes, but even so, the point stands that there was nothing wrong with that goal.

I was a strong reaction, but I was a controlled reaction, I think I should have reacted the same way.

The videos shows no punches or kicks (or anything like that).. like Ive seen so many times in football

It was still a bad reaction. Just because it was mild in relative terms doesnt make it much better

It was also a stupid reaction considering they were already through to the semis. The ref could have lost it and sent a couple off, banning them from the next games.

England had a better case for complaining about rule infringement in the penalty shoot out, when the Dutch keeper was constantly allowed to take a large leap forward before every ball was struck

I bet you 100% that the Serbs would have done EXACTLY the same thing and carried on playing.have they done it before?

I am not aware of any FIFA (World Cup Or Euro) U21 team ever doing away with Fair Play.

heck.. I am not aware of any World Cup or Euro team (all categories combined) ever doing away with Fair Play.

But If you know this happened, please tell us.

have they done it before.

I am not aware of any FIFA (World Cup Or Euro) U21 team ever doing away with Fair Play.

heck.. I am not aware of any World Cup or Euro team (all categories combined) ever doing away with Fair Play.

But If you know this happened, please tell us.

You could argue the fairness of certain 'Hand of God' situations

I thought the England players reacted quite well.I agree.
No punches, no pulling people to the ground.

LOL
Those penalty shootouts reminded me of that British mouse city movie :D

I don't know that movie.. but the shootouts were very exciting *nod*

And we had a great keeper, he stopped 3 penalties!

I say England scored a fair goal. So what if the player was tackled, it happens a lot of the time in soccer.

You could argue the fairness of certain 'Hand of God' situationsFair Play is about sportsmanship, kicking the ball to the side when a player is down.

and it cannot be argued that Serbia was trying to slow down the game.. because they were 0-1

Fair Play is about sportsmanship, kicking the ball to the side when a player is down.

and it cannot be argued that Serbia was trying to slow down the game.. because they were 0-1

Bad sportsmanship doesnt involve cheating?

As always, an England team fails in the penalty shoot-outs. Why do they even bother doing them? When it gets to that stage, just accept the inevitable, give up and go home decrying the loss of the game.I don't know that movie.. Movie = Flashed away

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Flushed+Away+Dreamworks&search=

It didn't change the outcome of the match - England did win 2 - 0 afterall.
Also, fairplay and sportsmanship are all well and good - up to a point.
Derbyshire did what any professional sportsman should do - play to the ref, not to the crowd. You should always keep playing until you hear the ref's whistle.

Match against Holland looked like a nail-biter: 1-1 after extra time and 13-12 (to Holland) after penalty shoot-outs.
As always, an England team fails in the penalty shoot-outs. Why do they even bother doing them? When it gets to that stage, just accept the inevitable, give up and go home decrying the loss of the game.

Crazy, I missed that. Good that we won from the English :)aww man.
otherwise it would have been a England-Serbia rematch for the final.. Ill pay a dollar to see that game ;) :D :D

now.. Can you -orange men- defeat the ebil Serbs? :D

What the video does not show is the start of the situation.

The Serbian player went down, apparently injured, and after this his own goalkeeper took a goal kick to restart play. It was only when this sequence of play (started by the Serbians) resulted in an English goal that they suddenly thought that play should have been stopped for their injured player.

News for you Serbians. Play was stopped, but you decided to restart it. Accept the consequences of your own actions.

What the video does not show is the start of the situation.

The Serbian player went down, apparently injured, and after this his own goalkeeper took a goal kick to restart play.hmm...
...

we need a longer video clip.

aww man.
otherwise it would have been a England-Serbia rematch for the final.. Ill pay a dollar to see that game ;) :D :D

now.. Can you -orange men- defeat the ebil Serbs? :D

We'll do our best :)

Yeah right, very bad sportmanship from England, luckily the Serbian fans showed how to behave properly. :rolleyes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/06/18/sfgeng118.xml

very bad sportmanship from England
unusual, like I said, I never seen it @ any FIFA World cup/UEFA tournaments. Since FIFA saterted promoting this FairPlay unwritten rule.

the Serbian fans showed how to behave properly.
Hooligans behaving borderline criminal? Nothing un-usual about that.

If FIFA was anything Fair.. they would take care of the Fan-criminal-ways

The Serbian player went down, apparently injured, and after this his own goalkeeper took a goal kick to restart play. It was only when this sequence of play (started by the Serbians) resulted in an English goal that they suddenly thought that play should have been stopped for their injured player.

News for you Serbians. Play was stopped, but you decided to restart it. Accept the consequences of your own actions.

Thanks for that info. Indeed, if the Serbians chose to restart the game, they have NOTHING to complain about.

Racist chants by Serbian supporters against English player Nedum Onuoha were by far the biggest disgrace of that match.

unusual, like I said, I never seen it @ any FIFA World cup/UEFA tournaments. Since FIFA saterted promoting this FairPlay unwritten rule.



Did you watch the whole match? Or are you basing your judgment on a short clip that does not show the whole story.

Let us put this in the context of what actually happened - again.

Serbia are losing 1-0 with about 10 minutes to play.

One of their players goes down with some minor injury to a leg in a section of play that results in a goal kick to Serbia.
The Serbians don't want to waste any time, after all they need to score and only have a short time available, so rather than wait for their player to recover before restarting, they get on with the game. All well and good - a normal situation and a normal response. However they lose possession of the ball and England, through Derbyshire, score a goal.
Where is the lack of fair play? Who decided to continue the game with an injured player down - the Serbians, not the English. Having made that decision, why then should the English stop playing because that same Serbian player has still not recovered? They shouldn't.

As for your never seeing this in any FIFA tournament, it simply indicates that you haven't watched that many tournaments. Try looking at, oh, say the 1966 World Cup final. This went into extra time, and play continued frequently with players form one side or the other down on the ground with cramp. No one expected the other team to stop, and they didn't.

Fair play does involve not taking undue advantage of an injury to an opponent, but if the opponent waives that convention by playing on when they had the chance to suspend play for the player to be treated, fair play then implies that the other team can also continue playing. Why should play only continue if the injured player's team has the ball - where is the fairness in that?

Edit
If the 66 World Cup is too far back, just look at the England x Holland Semi Final in this tournamet. In extra time an, after using all of their substitutes, and with Taylor already playing on one leg only, Onuoha was injured and couldn't continue. This left England with nine and a half men playing against eleven dutch. Did anyone expect the Dutch to stop? No. Was it Fair play that they continued, yes. Where is the difference?

Woo, go Derbyshire! He is seriously underrated - I can't believe people are willing to pay over 10million for Bent, but not interested in prying Derbyshire from Blackburn.

The last world cup was rendered boring by players going down 'injured' every 5 minutes, only to return after play had been stopped.

unusual, like I said, I never seen it @ any FIFA World cup/UEFA tournaments. Since FIFA saterted promoting this FairPlay unwritten rule.As for your never seeing this in any FIFA tournament, it simply indicates that you haven't watched that many tournaments. Try looking at, oh, say the 1966 World Cup final.Blue+Bold.. so you do not miss it again.

where is the fairness in that?
This is FIFA we are talking about.

Blue+Bold.. so you do not miss it again.

FIFA have always promoted it. Well at least since the First World Cup in Uruguay in 1930.

This is FIFA we are talking about.

So your objective here is to dig at FIFA / UEFA. A reasonable objective but the method chosen was a bad one.

Try looking at the hegemony of power, try criticising the decision to hold the UEFA Champions League final in an inappropriate stadium. Don't, however, take an isolated and out of context incident, over which FIFA have no power anyway, and hold this up as an example of their incompetence.

Edit
If the 66 World Cup is too far back, just look at the England x Holland Semi Final in this tournamet. In extra time an, after using all of their substitutes, and with Taylor already playing on one leg only, Onuoha was injured and couldn't continue. This left England with nine and a half men playing against eleven dutch. Did anyone expect the Dutch to stop? No. Was it Fair play that they continued, yes. Where is the difference?I explained multiple times what the FIFA fair-play rule is..

Maybe you want to ask for a change of another rule (maximum number of substitute players).. but it is irrelevant to the subject at hand.

Try looking at the hegemony of power, try criticising the decision to hold the UEFA Champions League final in an inappropriate stadium. Don't, however, take an isolated and out of context incident, over which FIFA have no power anyway, and hold this up as an example of their incompetence.talking about FIFA incompetence,

FIFA has banned games in high Cities.
I wonder how would the Denver fans react.. if the NFL (or NHL or NBA or NL) would say "hey thats too high.. it was OK for the last 100 years.. but starting next week you cant play there anymore"

What do you mean with high cities? High as in meters above sea level? In that case, us dutchies won't have any problems :D

What do you mean with high cities? High as in meters above sea level?yes like Denver.
Visiting teams take extra oxygen to play at Denver.


In that case, us dutchies won't have any problems :DLOL

That was awesome when the Serbian players gang rushed the English. For a moment I felt like I was watching Hockey.

I suppose that the next step is for the Argentinians to refuse to play in Venezuela because it is too hot - heat exhaustion being the problem, and soon we will have to have all matches in hermetically sealed stadiums at standard room temperature and pressure.I agree.

-footbally speaking- heat exhaustion kills more people than high cities.
But thats no reason to ban games in Miami or Venezuela.

talking about FIFA incompetence,

FIFA has banned games in high Cities.
I wonder how would the Denver fans react.. if the NFL (or NHL or NBA or NL) would say "hey thats too high.. it was OK for the last 100 years.. but starting next week you cant play there anymore"

This one I can agree with.

Flamengo I think it was (a side from Rio de Janeiro - altitude - maybe 5m above sea level at the most, but it could have been Fluminense - also from Rio) had to go and play a team form Bolivia (or Peru) in a regional competition. As this match was held at an altitude of around 5,000 m some of the Brazilain players suffered from altitude exhaustion. The club then obtained a medical review and used this to press for such matches to be banned.

Now why would FIFA even listen. Well look at the relative contributions made to FIFA from Brazil and from Bolivia and Peru. Money talks.

I suppose that the next step is for the Argentinians to refuse to play in Venezuela because it is too hot - heat exhaustion being the problem, and soon we will have to have all matches in hermetically sealed stadiums at standard room temperature and pressure.

yes like Denver.
Visiting teams take extra oxygen to play at Denver.


LOL

Okay, I didn't know that. And I'm unfamiliar with Denver, I know that it exists, but that's about it :)

I agree.

-footbally speaking- heat exhaustion kills more people than high cities.
But thats no reason to ban games in Miami or Venezuela.BTW..
You are right AB-reborn.. My thread is about FIFA not England..

the minute they started promoting unwritten rules.. I knew this was going to happen one day..

A Goal is scored while a "injured" player is -long- on the ground.. on a high profile international game.

I had to call it up the first time i see it.. regardless of who scored the goal.
You (UK fans) dont expect me to wait 3 years for the second controversial goal.. just to spare Derbyshire honor.. do you? ;)

BTW Derbyshire is a fine player.

BTW..
A Goal is scored while a "injured" player is -long- on the ground.. on a high profile international game.

But do you know how many players abuse this and fall down easily just so the other team will have to kick out the ball and drop momentum? I think that everyone should play on until the referee stops the game which the English players did.

You (English fans) dont expect me to wait 3 years for the second controversial goal.. just to spare Derbyshire honor.. do you? ;)


Fixed

FixedLOL

my mistake.