NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/06/22/cheney_asserts_hes_part_of_the_legislative_branch/

...the hell?

Edit: Tried to put a (U.S.) in the title so non-Americans who don't care will know not to bother, but it's stuck now.

Well, he sort of is. He can cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, which is unquestionably part of the legislative branch. :p Outside that, though, he really isn't, even if he is influential among Congressmen.

I don't blame him, I would distance myself as far as possible from Bush as well.

Well, he sort of is. He can cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, which is unquestionably part of the legislative branch. :p Outside that, though, he really isn't, even if he is influential among Congressmen.

But he's asserting that he's not a member of the executive branch because of this tie-breaking power. Which is frankly, ridiculous.

But he's asserting that he's not a member of the executive branch because of this tie-breaking power. Which is frankly, ridiculous.

Yeah, he's probably wrong then. As president of the Senate, he might be able to claim he belongs to both, but not one or the other, I don't think.

The whole thing just makes my head hurt. He's a Cabinet Rank Member! He's in the Cabinet! The Cabinet is in the executive branch!

:headbang:

Yeah, he's probably wrong then. As president of the Senate, he might be able to claim he belongs to both, but not one or the other, I don't think.

Yeah. I think the best case he could make would be that he has dual membership of the branches. However, neither positions invalidate the other.

Yeah. I think the best case he could make would be that he has dual membership of the branches. However, neither positions invalidate the other.

Well, hopefully someone in his inner-circle will bring it to his attention. :p

Well, hopefully someone in his inner-circle will bring it to his attention. :p

Nope. He will get away with this shit. Just like all the other members of the Administration when they come up with such nonsense.

Here's the process:

Bush OR Bush crony does something extraordinary, something out of thier jurisdiction perhaps etc

Newspaper might report it. Maybe a book long after it's happened.

If anyone notices, they might get dragged in front of a senate/congressional commitee.

Claim of executive privelage/Breach of 5th amendment/Signing statement/Whatever made.

Commitee quietly shuts up.

Books and newspapers still report it, but no one really does anything.

Cycle continues.

Books and newspapers still report it, but no one really does anything.

Cycle continues.

He could be wrong and probably is, but it's not as if he transcends the executive branch simply by insisting on it. We'll see. ;)

Cheney, whose single constitutional duty is to serve as president of the Senate, holds that the vice president's office is not an "entity within the executive branch" and...
He is correct. In practice he may be a key member of the presidential administration but his argument holds water constitutionally.

Slave master Cheney has done well.
Slave master Cheney mimics from his reptilian OVERLords and seeks to dominate his fellow grunting ape people. He only knows war and savagery. At night we crushs in the skulls of freshly adopted dark skinned human sucklings and laps up their mashed brain organs and blood juice as one. He uses this to empower his murder rites in respect to us.
Slave master Cheney serves well and can be expected to release another 3,000 American troops to die in our sacred blood ritual in devastated Babylon.
May Cheney bless you with raping snakes that gift your mothers with beating deformed humanoid babies.

Slave Master Cheney will serve as a excellent leader after he or fellow Reptoid servant Giuliani have eaten the remains of dying corpse bush. Both have the knack to minic the naive emotions of you keyboard stricken apes.

Slave Master Cheney will serve as a excellent leader after he or fellow Reptoid servant Giuliani have eaten the remains of dying corpse bush. Both have the knack to minic the naive emotions of you keyboard stricken apes.

Mimic, you mean? And what now, tag-team spam? :p

Slave Master Cheney will serve as a excellent leader after he or fellow Reptoid servant Giuliani have eaten the remains of dying corpse bush. Both have the knack to minic the naive emotions of you keyboard stricken apes.

Did you witness slave master Cheney and future slave master Giuliani teleporting into the WTC festing on the charred remains of firefighters before Bush blew up the World Trade Center?
Slave master Cheney pleases the OVERLORD with his lowhanded ape antics.

Clearly he's not desperately trying to hide things and cover his arse as fast as possible.

I just checked the Constitution out.

It mentions the Vice President being the President of the Senate in Article 1(which deals with the legislative branch). It also mention the electing of the Vice President in Article 2(which deals with the executive branch).

However, here where Mr. Cheney's assertion breaks down: The Vice-President may be the President of the Senate, but if he were solely part of the Legislative Branch, why would he be Vice-President? His title would be, President of the Senate.

LG is indeed right. If Cheney's assertion that he is a member of the legislative branch is supposed to be correct, he can't be Vice-President. And vice versa, according to the constitution.

So really he has dual membership as President of the Senate, and Vice President of the Executive.

I just checked the Constitution out.

It mentions the Vice President being the President of the Senate in Article 1(which deals with the legislative branch). It also mention the electing of the Vice President in Article 2(which deals with the executive branch).

However, here where Mr. Cheney's assertion breaks down: The Vice-President may be the President of the Senate, but if he were solely part of the Legislative Branch, why would he be Vice-President? His title would be, President of the Senate.

Yeah, it does seem that he's stuck with the executive for a while. Sucks to be voted vice-president, I guess. :p

Clearly he's not desperately trying to hide things and cover his arse as fast as possible.

It had just occurred to me that this whole thing was coming from the 'if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to hide' crowd...what with the wiretapping and what not...

Did you witness slave master Cheney and future slave master Giuliani teleporting into the WTC festing on the charred remains of firefighters before Bush blew up the World Trade Center?
Slave master Cheney pleases the OVERLORD with his lowhanded ape antics.

Of course and many parts of the galaxy this day is celebrated as a national long weekend. In some dimensions Slave master Giuliani lays underneath the rubble of the WTC buildings still festering on unclaimed flesh to strengthen him for 2008 victory.

It had just occurred to me that this whole thing was coming from the 'if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to hide' crowd...what with the wiretapping and what not...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y107/TP4CCCC/fascism.jpg
Not totally accurate, but close enough.

Don't complain Americans, even if your separation of powers doesn't work, at least you have one, in my country the head of government (executive) MUST be part of the legislative in order to form government.

Did you witness slave master Cheney and future slave master Giuliani teleporting into the WTC festing on the charred remains of firefighters before Bush blew up the World Trade Center?
Slave master Cheney pleases the OVERLORD with his lowhanded ape antics.

Slave Master Cheney will serve as a excellent leader after he or fellow Reptoid servant Giuliani have eaten the remains of dying corpse bush. Both have the knack to minic the naive emotions of you keyboard stricken apes.

Slave master Cheney has done well.
Slave master Cheney mimics from his reptilian OVERLords and seeks to dominate his fellow grunting ape people. He only knows war and savagery. At night we crushs in the skulls of freshly adopted dark skinned human sucklings and laps up their mashed brain organs and blood juice as one. He uses this to empower his murder rites in respect to us.
Slave master Cheney serves well and can be expected to release another 3,000 American troops to die in our sacred blood ritual in devastated Babylon.
May Cheney bless you with raping snakes that gift your mothers with beating deformed humanoid babies.

OOC: Jeeze You two! Everywhere you two go you do the whole."Reptililan Overlords pWn you/ we eat your children's brains. Only post if you have something sinsible, no,SANE to say.Alright?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/06/22/cheney_asserts_hes_part_of_the_legislative_branch/

...the hell?

Edit: Tried to put a (U.S.) in the title so non-Americans who don't care will know not to bother, but it's stuck now.

Lolz.

They need to just go through with the impeachment proceedings. This is Nixonesque bullshit, and that's what they were going to impeachim for.

The whole thing just makes my head hurt. He's a Cabinet Rank Member! He's in the Cabinet! The Cabinet is in the executive branch!

:headbang:

Shhh. It's alright.

*comforts*

I know we have absoulte power hungry morons in office right now but we will soon rectify the situation. Heh, this is almost as good as when Tony Snow asserted that the president can't be held accountable to the legislative branch. I wonder if this is related? :eek:

Both are good for a good WTF response.

Shhh. It's alright.

*comforts*

I know we have absoulte power hungry morons in office right now but we will soon rectify the situation. Heh, this is almost as good as when Tony Snow asserted that the president can't be held accountable to the legislative branch. I wonder if this is related? :eek:

Both are good for a good WTF response.

Sometimes I think this administration is just a big social experiment to figure out how absurd a government's claims have to be before the partisans will stop agreeing with them. We've got to be pushing the limits by now.

Haven't we?

It had just occurred to me that this whole thing was coming from the 'if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to hide' crowd...what with the wiretapping and what not...

ah, but the wiretapping was of the people (and most likely, congressional dems and the like). they should have nothing to hide. this, on the other hand, is the government. things would go straight to hell if the government had to be open and accountable.

Sometimes I think this administration is just a big social experiment to figure out how absurd a government's claims have to be before the partisans will stop agreeing with them. We've got to be pushing the limits by now.

Haven't we?

nope. it looks like about 25% of the population are just straight up fascists, willing to go along with essentially anything their chosen authorities say.

lol, Cheney.

I hope Bush tries to argue he's part of the legislative branch on the grounds that he can veto legislation. That would make more sense than what Cheney's trying to pull.

This kind of blatant attempt to circumvent constitutional responsability should be grounds for an immediate investigation into what exactly this guy is trying to hide from the public.

Were this the '70s, they would all be on planes home. But this is the new century and we are in an on-going, never-ending arbitrarily-defined war and therefore things must be done to protect us from the "terrorists" - things like hiding information and preventing reporters from reporting things we don't like and invading the privacy of our citizens and holding people without trial or just cause indefinitely.

I had a scary thought: Could Cheney take control of the legislative as President of the Senate if the congress and senate members are killed off?

No. Everything would fall under the executive manifested in the Emergency Powers Bill.

I had a scary thought: Could Cheney take control of the legislative as President of the Senate if the congress and senate members are killed off?

No. Everything would fall under the executive manifested in the Emergency Powers Bill.

Damn, Cheney still wins.

If he's not part of the Executive Branch, he's not covered by executive privilege. But the Supreme Court said he was in that energy bill case, so he must be part of the executive branch.

Look, his claim is bullshit, plain and simple. That means he's been in violation of federal law for 3+ years now. Impeach his ass and replace him.

Of course and many parts of the galaxy this day is celebrated as a national long weekend. In some dimensions Slave master Giuliani lays underneath the rubble of the WTC buildings still festering on unclaimed flesh to strengthen him for 2008 victory.

Future slave master Giuliana smears himself with the war paint of dried feces of the ape slaves he has slain with his five hairy clawed digits. Future slave master Giuliana fills his belly with those he has dominated by using their flesh and blood in attempt to use their souls.
Giuliana pleases the ever dominating, never conqurored OVERlord and his ritualistic human sacrifices appeases them for truly future slave master Giuliana will pull no stops to prove he can dominate over all.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/06/22/cheney_asserts_hes_part_of_the_legislative_branch/

...the hell?

Edit: Tried to put a (U.S.) in the title so non-Americans who don't care will know not to bother, but it's stuck now.

That is an interesting tack. He's not elected as a state representative or senator, and is only in office as an aide de camp of the President. Technically. He's got a point, his only real "task" being President of the Senate...

If he's not part of the Executive Branch, he's not covered by executive privilege. But the Supreme Court said he was in that energy bill case, so he must be part of the executive branch.

Look, his claim is bullshit, plain and simple. That means he's been in violation of federal law for 3+ years now. Impeach his ass and replace him.

you win!

Here's an example so simple even cheney can understand it
http://bensguide.gpo.gov/3-5/government/branches.html

or try this
http://bensguide.gpo.gov/files/gov_chart.pdf

He is correct. In practice he may be a key member of the presidential administration but his argument holds water constitutionally.Like hell it does.

First of all, this is not really a question of constitutional law: it is a question of statutory (or in this case, Executive Order) interpretation. There is an executive order calling for oversight of "entities in the executive branch" that handle classified documents. The question is whether that language is meant to include the Office of the Vice President.

Note that if there were an Executive Order that specifically named "the Office of the Vice President," Cheney would be powerless to fight it. He is not claiming a special constitutional privilege of the Vice President's office; rather he is claiming that legal language does not apply to him because he is not merely a member of the executive branch.

How will the courts treat this? It's pretty cut and dry: they'll consider the fact that previous VPs have complied with the order AND the fact that Cheney himself complied with the order in 2000 and 2001 AND the fact that in ordinary usage the VP is considered a member of the executive branch...

... and the courts will say, "Obviously, everyone has understood this order to include the Vice President's office, including Mr. Cheney himself until he decided it was inconvenient and tried to protect himself with a novel constitutional argument. But this court has little patience for such novel arguments that fly in the face of the common understanding of statutory language."

How have these assholes not been impeached yet?

How have these assholes not been impeached yet?It's simple: the Republicans gave impeachment a bad name when they went after Clinton for something that the American people never really cared about--i.e. lying about a blowjob. They dealt with some serious backlash for that one, and now the Democrats have an irrational fear of impeachment: irrational because this time a majority of Americans favor impeachment.

I don't blame him, I would distance myself as far as possible from Bush as well.
Yes, we're lucky he said he was part of the American legislative branch.

How will the courts treat this? It's pretty cut and dry: they'll consider the fact that previous VPs have complied with the order AND the fact that Cheney himself complied with the order in 2000 and 2001 AND the fact that in ordinary usage the VP is considered a member of the executive branch...

... and the courts will say, "Obviously, everyone has understood this order to include the Vice President's office, including Mr. Cheney himself until he decided it was inconvenient and tried to protect himself with a novel constitutional argument. But this court has little patience for such novel arguments that fly in the face of the common understanding of statutory language."
I'd amend this to say " the courts should say..." If there's one thing we've seen in recent years, the courts have found more and more illogical ways to come to the decisions they want to come to regardless of what the law says.

But as I noted earlier--Cheney claimed executive privilege as part of the energy tax force, and SCOTUS backed him on it. If he's not part of the executive, he can't claim it. SCOTUS said he was, so legally, he was, and is bound by that Executive Order, and is by his own admission, in violation of federal law. Impeach him.

How have these assholes not been impeached yet?

Impeachment rarely has to do with actual violations of law. It's almost always an expression of political power, and while the Democrats have majorities in both Houses, they don't have enough votes to remove Cheney from office, because they don't have enough leverage on the necessary 17 Republican Senators to make them convict (and it would be 17, because Joe Lieberman would never vote to convict Cheney).

I'd amend this to say " the courts should say..." If there's one thing we've seen in recent years, the courts have found more and more illogical ways to come to the decisions they want to come to regardless of what the law says.Indeed. Nevertheless, in what may seem like perverse optimism, I insist on reading the law as if it is, after all, actually binding: so my "the courts will say" is something of a presumptive ideal.

But as I noted earlier--Cheney claimed executive privilege as part of the energy tax force, and SCOTUS backed him on it.That, and the fact that in this particular case he is handling classified documents in his capacity as an executive, not as a legislator, makes his legal status pretty obvious.

If it weren't so sad, it would be comical.

Unfortunately he'll only go off to do somethign else, such as shooting innocent people or (literally) stealing candy from babies.

Bush destroyed any chance of being a good, positive and productive President he had when he chose Cheney to be his VP. Bush himself isn't as bad as people think but he did choose Rumsfeld and Cheney, so all the crap they have done is his fault, if not directly.

Well, hopefully someone in his inner-circle will bring it to his attention. :p

Howzabout we stick him in the middle of a "circle"?
*link withheld*

Bush destroyed any chance of being a good, positive and productive President he had when he chose Cheney to be his VP. Bush himself isn't as bad as people think but he did choose Rumsfeld and Cheney, so all the crap they have done is his fault, if not directly.

But he's "The Decider"! :rolleyes:
I'm the decider, and I decide what's best.- April 2006

And certainly NOT a "flipflopper" :rolleyes: x2
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/07/b42263.html