NationStates Jolt Archive

In case you didn't hear about this one:

Japan changes name of Iwo Jima
By HANS GREIMEL, Associated Press Writer
Wed Jun 20, 4:27 PM ET

Japan has returned to using the prewar name for the island of Iwo Jima — site of one of World War II's most horrific battles — at the urging of its original inhabitants, who want to reclaim an identity they say has been hijacked by high-profile movies like Clint Eastwood's "Letters from Iwo Jima."

The new name, Iwo To, was adopted Monday by the Japanese Geographical Survey Institute in consultation with Japan's coast guard.

Surviving islanders evacuated during the war praised the move, but others said it cheapens the memory of a brutal campaign that today is inextricably linked to the words Iwo Jima.

Back in 1945, the small, volcanic island was the vortex of the fierce World War II battle immortalized by the famous photograph by Joe Rosenthal of The Associated Press showing Marines raising the American flag on the islet's Mount Suribachi.

Retired Marine Maj. Gen. Fred Haynes, who was a 24-year-old captain in the regiment that raised the flag on Mount Suribachi, was surprised and upset by the news.

"Frankly, I don't like it. That name is so much a part of our tradition, our legacy," said Haynes.

Haynes, 87, heads the Combat Veterans of Iwo Jima, a group of about 600 veterans that travels to the island every year for a reunion. He is working on a book about the battle called "We Walk by Faith: The Story of Combat Team 28 and the Battle of Iwo Jima." He doesn't plan to change the name.

"It was Iwo Jima to us when we took it," said Haynes. "We'll recognize whatever the Japanese want to call it but we'll stick to Iwo Jima."

Before the war, the isolated spit of land was called Iwo To — pronounced "ee-woh-toh" — by the 1,000 or so people who lived there. In Japanese, that name looks and means the same as Iwo Jima — Sulfur Island — but it has a different sound.

The civilians were evacuated in 1944 as U.S. forces advanced across the Pacific. Some Japanese navy officers who moved in to fortify the island mistakenly called it Iwo Jima, and the name stuck. After the war, civilians weren't allowed to return and the island was put to exclusive military use by both the U.S. and Japan, cementing its identity.

Locals were never happy the name Iwo Jima took root. But the last straw came this year with the release of Eastwood's "Letters from Iwo Jima" and "Flags of Our Fathers," war films that only reinforced the misnomer.

In March, Ogasawara, the municipality that administers Iwo To and neighboring islands, responded by adopting a resolution making Iwo To the official name. Ogasawara residents and descendants of Iwo To evacuees petitioned the central government to follow suit.

"Though we're happy for Iwo To, which has been forgotten by history, the islanders are extremely grieved every time they hear Iwo To referred to as Iwo Jima," the local Ogasawara newspaper quoted the resolution as saying of the Eastwood movies.

The government agreed; an official map with the new name will be released on Sept. 1.

Still, Iwo Jima is the only name that clicks with most Japanese who aren't from the remote island chain, some 700 miles southeast of Tokyo in the Pacific Ocean.

Even some Japanese war veterans, like 84-year-old Kiyoshi Endo, who heads an association commemorating soldiers killed in the battle, feel uncomfortable about the switch.

"Naval maps have long used the name Iwo Jima," Japan's Sankei newspaper quoted Endo as saying. "We should respect that history."

Today Iwo To's only inhabitants are about 400 Japanese soldiers.

The 1945 battle for Iwo Jima pitted some 100,000 U.S. troops against 22,000 Japanese deeply dug into a labyrinth of tunnels and trenches. Nearly 7,000 Americans were killed capturing the island, and fewer than 1,000 of the Japanese survived.

The Americans occupied the island after the war, and returned it to Japanese jurisdiction in 1968. The U.S. Navy still uses an airstrip on the island to train pilots who operate from aircraft carriers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_as/japan_iwo_jima

With respect to General Haynes, I'm kind of left wondering just why he's feeling upset that his tradition and legacy has been violated when the islanders were there long before the US Marines (Or the Imperial Army/Navy for that matter) and were calling it Iwoto?

So what do you think of the change?

Well we could always just take the damn thing again.

So what do you think of the change?

I think pancakes. Oh, and militaries are a stupid lot.

I think pancakes. Oh, and militaries are a stupid lot.

I agree. But where would I get pancakes right now? *wanders off to find some*

Iwo To? It sounds like a sequel.

frankly i think americans can just shut the fuck up about this. it's not their call at all.

I was thinking this thread was going to about changing the name of the whole country lol

I'd add that this isn't the first site of American combat in WW2 to change its name. Anyone remember Formosa? That is called Taiwan today...

Dude, it's four letters...

If Americans want to call it Iwo Jima whatever...but let the Japanese call their Island whatever the hell they want...

It's none of Americas business.

Bollocks. An ample majority of toponymics don't bear even a slight resemblance to their foreign versions, so what's the fucking deal? It's not like it's forbidden to call it Iwo Jima or Iwo Fuckmehard or whatever you want.

Aww...I thought that the Japanese had changed the name of their country, to something stupid like "Land of the technomidgets".

You disappoint me.

Who the hell cares. Let them call it whatever the hell they want. It's their island. The Americans can shit in a hat over this and it still won't change a thing.

Who the hell cares. Let them call it whatever the hell they want. It's their island. The Americans can shit in a hat over this and it still won't change a thing.

Agreed. It belongs to them, they can do what they want with it. Flatten it, for all I care.

Eh don't really care, if they want to change it, fine. (American BTW)

frankly i think americans can just shut the fuck up about this. it's not their call at all.

QFT.

"Americans" need a big cup of STFU.

In case you didn't hear about this one:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_as/japan_iwo_jima

With respect to General Haynes, I'm kind of left wondering just why he's feeling upset that his tradition and legacy has been violated when the islanders were there long before the US Marines (Or the Imperial Army/Navy for that matter) and were calling it Iwoto?

So what do you think of the change?

I for one don't like it, and I don't really see why they should change it.

It said that 1000 people lived there before the war, and I'm sure most if not all of them are dead by now.

Uh, if I'm not mistaken, the majority of Japanese people have pretty much blocked WW2 from their history, with the exception of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Okinawa.

Of course, I could just be a stupid round eyed Westerner so what do I know? :D

I for one don't like it, and I don't really see why they should change it.


I don't see why they shouldnt

"Americans" need a big cup of STFU.

Don't be silly. They had a flag when they took Iwo Jima. They planted it in a big, slightly homoerotic, huddle and everything.

What's the point of carrying a flag all that way and then getting someone to take a picture of you planting it if it doesn't mean you get to make decisions about the place forever?

"Americans" need a big cup of STFU.

Just because British militaristic pride has gone down the toiliet doesn't mean ours has to.

Just because British militaristic pride has gone down the toiliet doesn't mean ours has to.

Why would I give a fuck about "British militaristic pride"?

Let's look at the facts:

Is Iwo Jima Japanese territory? No

Does the US have any authority over the island? No

Does the US have any claim on the island? No

Is it the wish of the (former) people of Iwo Jima, the people of the area that it's in, and the people of Japan that the name is changed? I believe the answer is yes.

Again, a big cup of STFU.

Fail.

Because your points were based on something much more accurate

Don't be silly. They had a flag when they took Iwo Jima. They planted it in a big, slightly homoerotic, huddle and everything.

What's the point of carrying a flag all that way and then getting someone to take a picture of you planting it if it doesn't mean you get to make decisions about the place forever?

Fail.

Fail.

Wow, I guess that told me.

I don't know how I'll manage to carry on dragging my sorry arse out of bed of a morning knowing a random stranger on the interwebs didn't think one of my posts was up to scratch.

Well then, I guess it's evident that you simply don't "give a fuck" about anything.

Not giving a fuck about one thing = Not giving a fuck about anything?

:rolleyes:

:confused:

Well then, I guess it's evident that you simply don't "give a fuck" about anything.

Logic clearly isn't your strong point.

Why would I give a fuck about "British militaristic pride"?

Let's look at the facts:

Is Iwo Jima Japanese territory? No

Does the US have any authority over the island? No

Does the US have any claim on the island? No

Is it the wish of the (former) people of Iwo Jima, the people of the area that it's in, and the people of Japan that the name is changed? I believe the answer is yes.

Again, a big cup of STFU.

Well then, I guess it's evident that you simply don't "give a fuck" about anything.

Wow, I guess that told me.

I don't know how I'll manage to carry on dragging my sorry arse out of bed of a morning knowing a random stranger on the interwebs didn't think one of my posts was up to scratch.

:rolleyes:

Aww...I thought that the Japanese had changed the name of their country, to something stupid like "Land of the technomidgets".

You disappoint me.

They'll always be Moonites to me.

People in different countries call other places by the 'wrong' names all the time. As far as I know only the most pathetic Wapanese anime-whores call Japan 'Nippon' in everyday conversation. Or rather, "Iiee supa supa baka-ningen, watashi nippon baka kawaiii desu!" or some other psuedo-Japanese gibberish.
Germany springs to mind. And the UK. Most Americans think of the United Kingdom as 'England' or 'Britain' rather than its 'proper' name. Or the United States itself. Everybody I know without a political shoulder-chip calls it "America" by default, generally only identifying it as the United States if they have to.
Basically, as was said earlier, nobody is MAKING anybody call it anything. Im sure the US marines will keep calling it Iwo Jima, considering the sheer arrogance and bull-headed idiocy of that particular branch of the US military.
Yeah, I did have to fend off a Marine recruiter for most of my senior year of High School. Apparently nobody told them 'No means no' at some point.

Don't be silly. They had a flag when they took Iwo Jima. They planted it in a big, slightly homoerotic, huddle and everything.

What's the point of carrying a flag all that way and then getting someone to take a picture of you planting it if it doesn't mean you get to make decisions about the place forever?

"homoerotic" ? thats great.

gives the reader good insight to your point of view.

"homoerotic" ? thats great.

gives the reader good insight to your point of view.

What insight is that?

I was simply implying that a group of young, virile, fit men crowding together and gripping a large pole after being bereft of female company for what may have been quite a while could be seen by some a vaguely homoerotic.

frankly i think americans can just shut the fuck up about this. it's not their call at all.

As an American I really don't give a hoot what they call it. to use a tired old Cliche a Rose by any other name still smells just as sweet.

Its still going to have the history, and that's the only important thing, preserving the knowledge of what happened there. General Haynes and the lot should be happy the islanders are able to get on and get passed this finally, instead if whining and complaining about things that don't really matter.

All that energy wasted on complaining could've been better spent on a real problem, like rising gas prices.

Just because British militaristic pride has gone down the toiliet doesn't mean ours has to.

Um... what?

*points to the Falklands War*
I know quite a few Britons who are proud of that.

:rolleyes:

What? It's the British spelling.

What insight is that?

I was simply implying that a group of young, virile, fit men crowding together and gripping a large pole after being bereft of female company for what may have been quite a while could be seen by some a vaguely homoerotic.

what you implied served more to diminish what those men faced and sacraficed,portraying it as something silly.
definately trying to direspect it.

what you implied served more to diminish what those men faced and sacraficed,portraying it as something silly.
definately trying to direspect it.

Saying that something is vaguely homoerotic means that I am insulting the people involved?

I think we have just been given a fairly good insight into your mind.

It seems more like they want to forget it than anything else. Changing the name of one of a historically significant site in order to redirect attention from it really doesn't make sense; if anything, it seems disrespectful to the soldiers on both sides who died in the battle.

But they can do it if they want to...not like anyone can stop them if they want to forget it.

It seems more like they want to forget it than anything else. Changing the name of one of a historically significant site in order to redirect attention from it really doesn't make sense; if anything, it seems disrespectful to the soldiers on both sides who died in the battle.

But they can do it if they want to...not like anyone can stop them if they want to forget it.

Wasn't their choice of name in the first place though to be fair

I wonder though, would the Japanese complain if the U.S. renamed Pearl Harbour?

I doubt it...there seems to be a pretty disturbing trend of downplaying WWII in Japan, especially all the atrocities they committed.

Someone already kind of mentioned, we don't call Japan Nippon or Germany Duetschland.

It also localizes Iwo Jima in history. When you talk about Iwo Jima you're talking about that point in history, but since the natives didn't call it that and the name was a mistake there is no real reason to keep the mistake just because it's a nifty bit of history. It doesn't erase the history of the battle, in fact it isolates it, specifies it.

And for "Americans" to be upset about it we'd have to know. It'd be more accurate to say "some American vets are upset about it." The rest of us are apparently too caught up in what heiress is doing who or some such nonsense, or worried about domestic issues to be slightly more kind.

Meh, it's their island.

I wonder though, would the Japanese complain if the U.S. renamed Pearl Harbour?

Saying that something is vaguely homoerotic means that I am insulting the people involved?

I think we have just been given a fairly good insight into your mind.

nice try.

No cigar,unforunately.

nice try.

No cigar,unforunately.

Ok, in all seriousness, by what authority do you think the US should have the slightest say in what the people of Iwo Jima choose to have their island called?

I have a feeling that a lot of the people who argue here that they should keep the name will be the ones who were in the NSG trenches last year demanding that we call them Americans not Usians.

It seems more like they want to forget it than anything else. Changing the name of one of a historically significant site in order to redirect attention from it really doesn't make sense; if anything, it seems disrespectful to the soldiers on both sides who died in the battle.

But they can do it if they want to...not like anyone can stop them if they want to forget it.
I'm kinda sharing this sentiment... but it's their choice.

Wasn't their choice of name in the first place though to be fair
Then who thought it up?
I wonder who changed the name to Iwo Jima from Iwo To?


Now for all of you saying that "Americans should STFU!"

America, nor Americans are NOT stopping or even attempting to stop the name change. it's happening and the new maps will be released on Sept. 1.

if anything it will be a double name thing. Like Japan is Japan to the rest of the world, but to the Japanese, it's Nippon. So reign in your Anti-Americanism on this one guys.

And for "Americans" to be upset about it we'd have to know. It'd be more accurate to say "some American vets are upset about it." The rest of us are apparently too caught up in what heiress is doing who or some such nonsense, or worried about domestic issues to be slightly more kind.

Tokyo Hil-To!

Oh, and my opinion in all this,...

No complaints... isn't Jima(Shima) and To both mean Island?

Then who thought it up?
I wonder who changed the name to Iwo Jima from Iwo To?



Its in the link. It was a mistake made by the visiting Japanese troops

Silly Americans need their fingers in everyone's pie. :p Ok, not all of them, but really, Japan can call thier islands whatever they like. If they wish to preserve the peaceful history of their island over the not so peaceful, then I don't see a problem with it.

Besides, it's not as though America or any other country for that matter doesn't have parts of its history it wouldn't rather have swept under the rug, so you can unruffle your feathers about that.

Ok, in all seriousness, by what authority do you think the US should have the slightest say in what the people of Iwo Jima choose to have their island called?

I have a feeling that a lot of the people who argue here that they should keep the name will be the ones who were in the NSG trenches last year demanding that we call them Americans not Usians.

Its none of America's business what Japan choses to mis-name or re-name one of it's territories.

I dont care what they call it.

I dont see any swell of Americans protesting it.

And for the men that fought there, it will always be Iwo Jima to them.

Its feels like someone is trying to make a big deal out of this.

Or-baiting those of an anti-American pesuasion to blurt out their feelings about us, as if there is some arrogant crusade to stop the name change.

Its none of America's business what Japan choses to mis-name or re-name one of it's territories.

I dont care what they call it.

I dont see any swell of Americans protesting it.

And for the men that fought there, it will always be Iwo Jima to them.

Its feels like someone is trying to make a big deal out of this.

Or-baiting those of an anti-American pesuasion to blurt out their feelings about us, as if there is some arrogant crusade to stop the name change.
Agreed.
Fred Haynes is a Troll.

Its none of America's business what Japan choses to mis-name or re-name one of it's territories.

I dont care what they call it.

I dont see any swell of Americans protesting it.

And for the men that fought there, it will always be Iwo Jima to them.

Its feels like someone is trying to make a big deal out of this.

Or-baiting those of an anti-American pesuasion to blurt out their feelings about us, as if there is some arrogant crusade to stop the name change.

That's true actually. There's only been one serious opponent of the change in this thread and even Haynes is quoted as saying that he'll respect whatever the locals decide to call the place.

Meh, it's their island.

I wonder though, would the Japanese complain if the U.S. renamed Pearl Harbour?

I doubt it. Some workers at Pear Harbour commented that they were told by Japanese Visitors that they were never taught about Pearl Harbour and what happened that morning.

The locals can call it Iwo To. We'll keep calling it Iwo Jima. I think everyone can live with that.

That's true actually. There's only been one serious opponent of the change in this thread and even Haynes is quoted as saying that he'll respect whatever the locals decide to call the place.

QFT
You have to do it at least once...

OMFG! A retired American Major General says he doesn't like it. Since he was once a member of the army, and the army is under the control of the Commander in Chief via the General of the Army, and the Commander in Chief is also the head of state, therefore the American government opposes the name change, therefore ALL Americans oppose the name change. Damn them Americans...

Wow. An elderly man complained about something trivial. Never heard of that happening before. :rolleyes:

It's not ours anymore (is it?) if they want to call its original name then let them, it will still be The Battle of Iwo Jima in our textbooks and in general reference over here...

personally i think Iwo To sounds better anyways

I for one don't like it, and I don't really see why they should change it.

It said that 1000 people lived there before the war, and I'm sure most if not all of them are dead by now.

Uh, if I'm not mistaken, the majority of Japanese people have pretty much blocked WW2 from their history, with the exception of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Okinawa.

Of course, I could just be a stupid round eyed Westerner so what do I know? :D
You are mistaken, but I really don't want to get into that, again. ;)

Tokyo Hil-To!

Oh, and my opinion in all this,...

No complaints... isn't Jima(Shima) and To both mean Island?
Yup. The kanji for island (島) can be pronounced as Shima, but when put next to other sounds will become Jima. But, thanks to the oddness that is Japan's writing system, 島 also can be said as Tou, hence the name for Iwoutou is still the same kanji as Iwoujima and has the same meaning (Sulfer Island), but the pronuciation is different.

by no means was my comment on p.1 intended to be anti-american. my use of the term 'americans' was parroting the article and i don't for a minute believe that most americans consider this a big deal. perhaps i should have used quotation marks.


/disclaimer

So what do you think of the change?

Well, the base I was living on changed the name of the street we lived on and the only ones who were upset about it was the postman and the drunks who couldn't find their way home. :p

Just goes to show we should have never given back any of the territory we seized during the war....

Really though, even the general is not making a big deal of it, he's just doing an interview to publicize his upcoming book.
"'It was Iwo Jima to us when we took it," said Haynes. "We'll recognize whatever the Japanese want to call it but we'll stick to Iwo Jima.'"

Wow. An elderly man complained about something trivial. Never heard of that happening before. :rolleyes:

HEY! Get off my lawn!

This incident once again proves that all it takes to correct a tiny military mistake is to...spend sixty years petitioning for a change, and spend tons of money in the process.

I wonder what it takes to correct large military mistakes.

Iwo who?

So, let's see if I have this straight.

During the war, and island called Iwo To was mis-designated as Iwo Jima. The name stuck for a bit, but the natives were rather fond of the CORRECT name, so they are changing it back.

To it's CORRECT name.

And some people from a country who think it's fine for a Texas town to rename itself Dish.com when there's money involved, in this case are annoyed because a battle was fought there and they'd hate to think that this name change might cause problems with history books or something. Like it invalidates the battle and their place in it or some dumb-assed notion.


In other news, whole parts of europe were briefly renamed "Germany" during that same period (annexation of Austria, Poland, etc.. Oddly enough, no-one seems to object to the renaming of those countries back to their proper names - even though equally epic battles were fought there.

In other, other news - it's their country. They can call bits of it whatever they want. Get over it.

So, let's see if I have this straight.

During the war, and island called Iwo To was mis-designated as Iwo Jima. The name stuck for a bit, but the natives were rather fond of the CORRECT name, so they are changing it back.

To it's CORRECT name.

And some people from a country who think it's fine for a Texas town to rename itself Dish.com when there's money involved, in this case are annoyed because a battle was fought there and they'd hate to think that this name change might cause problems with history books or something. Like it invalidates the battle and their place in it or some dumb-assed notion.


In other news, whole parts of europe were briefly renamed "Germany" during that same period (annexation of Austria, Poland, etc.. Oddly enough, no-one seems to object to the renaming of those countries back to their proper names - even though equally epic battles were fought there.

In other, other news - it's their country. They can call bits of it whatever they want. Get over it.
nah u don't have it straight

nah u don't have it straight

Well thanks for that most elucidating rejoinder. Indeed, it is hard to argue with such a cogent rebuttal

People in different countries call other places by the 'wrong' names all the time. As far as I know only the most pathetic Wapanese anime-whores call Japan 'Nippon' in everyday conversation. Or rather, "Iiee supa supa baka-ningen, watashi nippon baka kawaiii desu!" or some other psuedo-Japanese gibberish.
Germany springs to mind. And the UK. Most Americans think of the United Kingdom as 'England' or 'Britain' rather than its 'proper' name. Or the United States itself. Everybody I know without a political shoulder-chip calls it "America" by default, generally only identifying it as the United States if they have to.
Basically, as was said earlier, nobody is MAKING anybody call it anything. Im sure the US marines will keep calling it Iwo Jima, considering the sheer arrogance and bull-headed idiocy of that particular branch of the US military.
Yeah, I did have to fend off a Marine recruiter for most of my senior year of High School. Apparently nobody told them 'No means no' at some point.

For the record, my grandfather was both a marine and present at Iwo To during that battle in WWII. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea about marines. :)

...I was also going to take a sarcastic tone in this post and pretend to hate the name change and argue that it should remain Iwo Jima, but I don't know if its a good idea to mix serious and satire in the same post. 'S hard enough on teh interwebz already.

All of this because a stuttering Japanese Officer?

I fail to see the part where Americans are getting upset. Just seems like another cheap shot against a group of people who couldn't care less. (You think I'd be used to that by now, but no.)

All of this because a stuttering Japanese Officer?

I fail to see the part where Americans are getting upset. Just seems like another cheap shot against a group of people who couldn't care less. (You think I'd be used to that by now, but no.)

Well, in fairness it seems to be one American getting upset. And not very upset at that, more mildly miffed.

Well, in fairness it seems to be one American getting upset. And not very upset at that, more mildly miffed.

NSG Translator: One radical redneck American marine boycotts Iwo Two. America presses for invasion while giving nukes to Israel and Iraqi Insurgents. Also America is stupid.

I heard that the Japanese Iwo vets were mad also. Oh, wait.:eek:

The Japanese should tell the Chinese they intend to rename Nanjing 'ZOMG PWNED111!!!':eek:

Well we could always just take the damn thing again.

qft.

I heard that the Japanese Iwo vets were mad also. Oh, wait.:eek:

I admit it. I loled.

In case you didn't hear about this one:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_as/japan_iwo_jima

With respect to General Haynes, I'm kind of left wondering just why he's feeling upset that his tradition and legacy has been violated when the islanders were there long before the US Marines (Or the Imperial Army/Navy for that matter) and were calling it Iwoto?

So what do you think of the change?

Meh. The Battle of Long Island (in the American Revolution) has also been called (more accurately) the Battle of Brooklyn. And Civil War historians will tell you that the battle of Sharpsburg and the battle of Antietam are one and the same, depending on who you ask.

So the place name changed. Big deal. All any intelligent person needs to do in the history books is insert the phrase "Iwo To, formerly known as Iwo Jima during World War II...."

All any intelligent person needs to do in the history books is insert the phrase "Iwo To, formerly known as Iwo Jima during World War II...."

Exactly. After all, you don't read in the history books about the War of 1812 anything about the Battle of Toronto. It was the Battle of York then, and it's still the Battle of York.

The idea that anyone is going to whine that a country shouldn't change a place name because a battle was once fought there is assinine.

People in different countries call other places by the 'wrong' names all the time. As far as I know only the most pathetic Wapanese anime-whores call Japan 'Nippon' in everyday conversation. Or rather, "Iiee supa supa baka-ningen, watashi nippon baka kawaiii desu!" or some other psuedo-Japanese gibberish.
Germany springs to mind. And the UK. Most Americans think of the United Kingdom as 'England' or 'Britain' rather than its 'proper' name. Or the United States itself. Everybody I know without a political shoulder-chip calls it "America" by default, generally only identifying it as the United States if they have to.
Basically, as was said earlier, nobody is MAKING anybody call it anything. Im sure the US marines will keep calling it Iwo Jima, considering the sheer arrogance and bull-headed idiocy of that particular branch of the US military.
Yeah, I did have to fend off a Marine recruiter for most of my senior year of High School. Apparently nobody told them 'No means no' at some point.


good points you make,with exception to your typical stereotyping of us marines.forget that thousands upon thousands died to fight a maniacal and sadist regime,from hitler to the japanese..remember what the japanese did in asia..remember nanking?
marines did not do that,they fought against it,so if you need to disparage someone...place your disdain where it belongs,on the imperial army of japan.
i know marines and yes they are aggressive and prone to stereotyping for the aggressiveness,but they mostly are honorable men and women that are trained that way so they can survive and god forbid..win.
my point is that if you cant understand that men that fought sadistic motherfuckers and saw the horrors that the japanese visited upon their victims,and died trying to stop them...well then there is not much i can say to you.
i can understand men being upset that they fought and watched the last drop of life drain from their friends die there, that they would be slightly miffed.not that they are correct,japan should call it whatever they fucking want,and americans can call it what they want.
but to turn this into a slander of the men that died there to take a cheap jab at america is pathetic..
if you cant understand a guy that held his friend in his arms that was dying to take the island,is slightly taken aback by this then you dont know about much.it is pretty simple,i have lost friends,for example,they dozed a graveyard where a close frien was buried,i was pisse dbut i know they dont care,but i cared,just as these men do.
not a big stretch emotionally speaking.
also,this may not be relevant,but from my understanding most atc(air traffic) is internationally spoken in english(note..not american..lol)and could calling an island a different name cause some confusion?
i dont know,just asking.

good points you make,with exception to your typical stereotyping of us marines.forget that thousands upon thousands died to fight a maniacal and sadist regime,from hitler to the japanese..remember what the japanese did in asia..remember nanking?
marines did not do that,they fought against it,so if you need to disparage someone...place your disdain where it belongs,on the imperial army of japan.
i know marines and yes they are aggressive and prone to stereotyping for the aggressiveness,but they mostly are honorable men and women that are trained that way so they can survive and god forbid..win.
my point is that if you cant understand that men that fought sadistic motherfuckers and saw the horrors that the japanese visited upon their victims,and died trying to stop them...well then there is not much i can say to you.
i can understand men being upset that they fought and watched the last drop of life drain from their friends die there that they would be slightly miffed.not that are correct,japan should call it whatever they fucking want,and americans can call it what they want.
but to turn this into a slander of the men that died there to take a cheap jab at america is pathetic..

Sixty years ago.
I would hope that in sixty years this would not be the central issue in anyone's life.

In case you didn't hear about this one:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_as/japan_iwo_jima

With respect to General Haynes, I'm kind of left wondering just why he's feeling upset that his tradition and legacy has been violated when the islanders were there long before the US Marines (Or the Imperial Army/Navy for that matter) and were calling it Iwoto?

So what do you think of the change?

Hellos,

personally (25 year old, u.s.'ian) i wonder these days about the oddity of things like "custom", or "tradition", or the mentality of "it has been done this way for xyz number of years, we keep it going".

same with the name change; history was written there, history that cannot be "un-made".

at the same time, the elders; those who where there before the war, should be respected. I see our elders demoted to something like bags of carcass meat; unworthy of attention. With it i keep remembering the quote "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."...

so true, so very true.

i dunno.
-Rafe

Sixty years ago.
I would hope that in sixty years this would not be the central issue in anyone's life.



again a good point and i am not disputing your opinion,i am just saying that we have men in this country that cant look in the mirror cause of the horror show they got to enjoy,and i will allow them the fact that they are old and saw shit no one should ever see..and if it bothers them,then who am i to argue,i disagree,the japanese can call it fucking kilaminjaro for all i care,but to these men that fought and lost friends,i can understand why they feel why they feel why they do...i dont agree,but i can understand.

Sixty years ago.
I would hope that in sixty years this would not be the central issue in anyone's life.

Since the Rape of Nanking was mentioned,

Well, there's also the Holocaust,...

Since the Rape of Nanking was mentioned,

Well, there's also the Holocaust,...

You Islamo-Fascist Commie-Liberal! How are you say the Holocaust is ancient history!

[/Sarcastic pre-emptive gripe]

They can change the name to whatever they'd like, but it'll always be "Iwo Jima" to me.

Sixty years ago.
I would hope that in sixty years this would not be the central issue in anyone's life.

and the important thing... I hope that in Sixty Years from now, what happened there is still remembered and not forgotten because "Iwo Jima" no longer exists.

again a good point and i am not disputing your opinion,i am just saying that we have men in this country that cant look in the mirror cause of the horror show they got to enjoy,and i will allow them the fact that they are old and saw shit no one should ever see..and if it bothers them,then who am i to argue,i disagree,the japanese can call it fucking kilaminjaro for all i care,but to these men that fought and lost friends,i can understand why they feel why they feel why they do...i dont agree,but i can understand.

Not to dispute this, but my great uncle was over there as a kid; he's been gone some years now. You're talking about a very small number of people who might possibly be upset about this; I rather think that the people who live there have a right to call it what they will despite what others who don't think of their name for the place.

and the important thing... I hope that in Sixty Years from now, what happened there is still remembered and not forgotten because "Iwo Jima" no longer exists.

I don't think it should be forgotten by any means -- but saying OMG changing the name is an insult to those who fought there is hardly what I would consider a central issue.

Mark my words: Most of the people who complain about Japan changing the name of their territory because it's our army's "sacred ground" will be the same ones who bitch about immigrants waving Mexican flags. Apparently cultural preservation is necessary when we do it, but disrespectful when someone else does.

The Japanese should tell the Chinese they intend to rename Nanjing 'ZOMG PWNED111!!!':eek:

I like it!

Given that it's a Japanese island, they can call it what they like. The American military can like it, or lump it, but they don't have any rights over its name.

In case you didn't hear about this one:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_as/japan_iwo_jima

With respect to General Haynes, I'm kind of left wondering just why he's feeling upset that his tradition and legacy has been violated when the islanders were there long before the US Marines (Or the Imperial Army/Navy for that matter) and were calling it Iwoto?

So what do you think of the change?

Their nation, let them change it. Our history books will still call it the battle of Iwo Jima regardless of what the new name is.

Who the hell cares. Let them call it whatever the hell they want. It's their island. The Americans can shit in a hat over this and it still won't change a thing.

Agreed.

You Islamo-Fascist Commie-Liberal! How are you say the Holocaust is ancient history!

[/Sarcastic pre-emptive gripe]

Whoop, didn't expect that, ... I was expecting something more Godwin-ish.

Japanese doesnt call their country Japan anyway, they call it something completely diferent.

Same thing with the island: if the americans want to keep calling it Iwo Jima, and the japanese Iwo To, just use the two names.

Anyway, its stupid to change the name of the place in the first place, and even more stupid for the americans to bother. Its like they feel people are taking away their "prize".

The 'mericans should start by using the official names of european cities: it's Wien (not Vienna), Köln (not Cologne), Firenze (not Florence), München (and not Munich) etc

I'm assuming we'll just keep calling it Iwo Jima, 'cause that's basically the English-language name for it, sort of how Japan is the English-language name for Nippon.

perhaps i should have used quotation marks.

Nah, no need for scare quotes...

I see our elders demoted to something like bags of carcass meat

I'm sorry, I just liked this metaphor (well, simile). :D

I'm assuming we'll just keep calling it Iwo Jima, 'cause that's basically the English-language name for it, sort of how Japan is the English-language name for Nippon.
Nihon is more common I think, and you're right, this won't exactly feature much on the minds of your average person.

Why anyone would want to live on that nasty little rock though is beyond me. I guess one's really got to like the sea.

Well, at least they won't have to spend any cash replacing the signs. :D

The 'mericans should start by using the official names of european cities: it's Wien (not Vienna), Köln (not Cologne), Firenze (not Florence), München (and not Munich) etc

Except for the fact that many people in said nations call it by the names that 'mericans call it. I have a German friend who lives outside of Munich and he calls it that.