NationStates Jolt Archive

So I'm sitting here with a bottle of Diet Pepsi: MAX: The Invigorating Cola (oh, yes). It's kinda odd-tasting, but slightly better than Diet Coke Plus - The Diet Cola With Vitamins Added .

And I was thinking - between my vitamin-A-enriched rice, and my genetically modified corn, it seems like there's a trend of adding supposedly "healthful" ingredients (ginseng with Pepsi, vitamins with Coke, e.g.) to products we all consume and enjoy.

So the questions I had are: what products have you noticed added vitamins or health-ingredients being added to?

Do you like them, or altered foods generally? Do you think getting extra vitamins in your food is good, or do you see those things as unholy modifications that shouldn't be done? :p

Doesn't bother me. Malnutrition is a growing problem in the developed world despite soaring obesity rates because so much of our food has become unhealthy, nutritionally void crap. If through these kinds of changes we can slow or reverse that problem, we will reap untold benefits in healthcare savings and quality of life improvements.

Doesn't bother me. Malnutrition is a growing problem in the developed world despite soaring obesity rates because so much of our food has become unhealthy, nutritionally void crap. If through these kinds of changes we can slow or reverse that problem, we will reap untold benefits in healthcare savings and quality of life improvements.

Could be. Although I know plenty of obese-but-well-nourished people who won't be getting any thinner by increasing vitamin intake. I guess I'm on board with the adding vitamins thing, but am kinda dubious on whether it will improve the general health of our population.

Could be. Although I know plenty of obese-but-well-nourished people who won't be getting any thinner by increasing vitamin intake. I guess I'm on board with the adding vitamins thing, but am kinda dubious on whether it will improve the general health of our population.

I think it would, simply because it is easier to improve the things people are eating rather than to try to get them to change their habits. Plus, it attracts health-minded people to your product; they might be willing to buy Diet Coke with vitamins because of the nutritional benefits even if they wouldn't buy it without them.

These sodas are dangerous and must be stopped.
They do not offer a balanced amount of vitamins and are going to cause more health problems than they solve. For example Diet Coke Plus(tastes like burning btw) has too much zinc without any copper to balance it.

I have no problem with them.

I think it would, simply because it is easier to improve the things people are eating rather than to try to get them to change their habits. Plus, it attracts health-minded people to your product; they might be willing to buy Diet Coke with vitamins because of the nutritional benefits even if they wouldn't buy it without them.

Maybe - we'll have to wait and see if those Coke and Pepsi products last. :p Of course, other vitamin-enriched things don't make any mention of their modifications on the label, or only in small print if they do. I heard once that those products have been banned in some countries, and shipments of vitamin-fortified rice sent to the Third World have even been sent back. Odd world sometimes. :p

These sodas are dangerous and must be stopped.
They do not offer a balanced amount of vitamins and are going to cause more health problems than they solve. For example Diet Coke Plus(tastes like burning btw) has too much zinc without any copper to balance it.

Zinc need copper? Hah, looks like the government actually got something right when they made the penny out of both. Must explain why the penny tastes so good, too. :)

These sodas are dangerous and must be stopped.
They do not offer a balanced amount of vitamins and are going to cause more health problems than they solve. For example Diet Coke Plus(tastes like burning btw) has too much zinc without any copper to balance it.

Actually, now that I think of it, don't some vitamins tend to build up in your system, like too much calcium causing stones? That might be one thing to consider.

Kind of like that girl who died last week from using several drugs that all contained acetaminophen - all together, they added up to overdose level, which she wouldn't have known. :( However, the cola products are clearly labelled, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem.

Actually, now that I think of it, don't some vitamins tend to build up in your system, like too much calcium causing stones? That might be one thing to consider.

Kind of like that girl who died last week from using several drugs that all contained acetaminophen - all together, they added up to overdose level, which she wouldn't have known. :( However, the cola products are clearly labelled, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem.
It wasn't Acetaminophen. It was some type of skin cream, IIRC.

Actually, now that I think of it, don't some vitamins tend to build up in your system, like too much calcium causing stones? That might be one thing to consider.

Yup. Of course, like everything that affects our bodies, some of it is also genetic. In general I think it would be a very good idea to refrain from putting metals in to soft drinks; although essential to the body's health, those metals like zinc, copper, and iron can all have some pretty nasty effects if they are imbalanced or if there is too high a concentration.

Stick to the vitamins and calcium, IMO, if you're putting them in soft drinks. For everything else they can get it from meat, fruits and vegetables in safe quantities.

It wasn't Acetaminophen. It was some type of skin cream, IIRC.

It was an overdose of methyl salicylate, the active ingredient of most rubifacient creams (I think it was specifically Bengay).

It wasn't Acetaminophen. It was some type of skin cream, IIRC.

The ingredient that did the damage was acetaminophen - it was the active ingredient in the creme, and in some other stuff she was taking. That's what I remember, anyways.

Edit: Maybe not! Someone's memory seems better than mine. :p

*...*

Do you like them, or altered foods generally? Do you think getting extra vitamins in your food is good, or do you see those things as unholy modifications that shouldn't be done? :p

I think it's an awful idea. If people are stupid enough to try to live on Pepsi, let them die I say.

All the vitamins have specific effects, some of them quite noticable. Phenylalanine (an amino acid) for instance acts as a smart drug and stimulant, though the effect becomes indistinguishable by the second or third dose (within a few days.) Vitamin C is a preservative and adds a nice sharp taste to juices (well orange and tomato juices anyway.)

Junk food manufacturers aren't the people to trust when it comes to good nutrition. Most likely all their supplements will be addictive, and improve the taste and shelf-life of their product with no regard to its integrity as food. Which in the case of Pepsi, is nil anyway.

A supplementary vitamin regime is a personal thing. I (for instance) have a very low requirement of thiamine, it zonks me out if I have too much. I need vitamin B12 because I don't eat meat. My requirements of vitamin C varies up and down, zinc likewise.

I reject utterly the idea that a vitamin regime suitable for the average soda-consumer (a youth of indeterminate gender), modified to keep it cheap and biased towards "vitamins" with positive side-effects, should be imposed on me "for my own good" by consuming some junk food.

I think it's an awful idea. If people are stupid enough to try to live on Pepsi, let them die I say.

All the vitamins have specific effects, some of them quite noticable. Phenylalanine (an amino acid) for instance acts as a smart drug and stimulant, though the effect becomes indistinguishable by the second or third dose (within a few days.) Vitamin C is a preservative and adds a nice sharp taste to juices (well orange and tomato juices anyway.)

Junk food manufacturers aren't the people to trust when it comes to good nutrition. Most likely all their supplements will be addictive, and improve the taste and shelf-life of their product with no regard to its integrity as food. Which in the case of Pepsi, is nil anyway.

A supplementary vitamin regime is a personal thing. I (for instance) have a very low requirement of thiamine, it zonks me out if I have too much. I need vitamin B12 because I don't eat meat. My requirements of vitamin C varies up and down, zinc likewise.

I reject utterly the idea that a vitamin regime suitable for the average soda-consumer (a youth of indeterminate gender), modified to keep it cheap and biased towards "vitamins" with positive side-effects, should be imposed on me "for my own good" by consuming some junk food.

Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone's out there living on Pepsi, and addin vitamins genetically to corn and rice and the like has probably helped people in the third world get vitamins they might lack - but you're probably right about the junk food industry adding addictive substances. They already make good money on caffeine, after all. :p

Yay genetic modification!

If we survive the learning curve, it is the key to a better future for mankind!

I give us one chance in ten. :)

It was an overdose of methyl salicylate, the active ingredient of most rubifacient creams (I think it was specifically Bengay).

Ah. Thank you.
The ingredient that did the damage was acetaminophen - it was the active ingredient in the creme, and in some other stuff she was taking. That's what I remember, anyways.

Edit: Maybe not! Someone's memory seems better than mine. :p
:eek:

Ah. Thank you.

:eek:

Hey, I'm not completely nuts - lots of stuff contains acetaminophen that doesn't say it on the label. I always used to get warned by doctors that each of my different prescriptions had it in it, and taking too much could cause liver damage. I just mis-remembered a bit here. :p

Well, to be fair, I don't think anyone's out there living on Pepsi, and addin vitamins genetically to corn and rice and the like has probably helped people in the third world get vitamins they might lack - but you're probably right about the junk food industry adding addictive substances. They already make good money on caffeine, after all. :p

I ignored the sensible part of your OP. It just seemed easier like that :p

I'm very dubious about genetic modification of crops too. The only legitimate test of the effect of a new food is a human trial over at least one generation. We don't even test genetically modified food on rats, that is left to the corporations selling seed. And quite frankly, they put up a wall of motherhood bullshit about "feeding the starving" and "viable crops for disadvantaged farmers" instead of any solid research into the effects of their product ... yes, product ... when consumed as food.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Bottle on this one. May your thread be blessed ...

I don't mind enrichment or 'fortified with' as it's called here in the UK. The extra iron in my cereal certainly helps my health.

The addition of 'superfoods' is just another marketing gimic though. Nothing more.

There's virtually no food in the market that hasn't been genetically engineered in some way. For the most part this is good. If one can eat food without having it sprayed with toxic chemicals because it is genetically resistant, why not?

There's virtually no food in the market that hasn't been genetically engineered in some way. For the most part this is good. If one can eat food without having it sprayed with toxic chemicals because it is genetically resistant, why not?

Very true. I'd rather eat an ear of corn that's been altered a bit than an ear of corn with pesticide residue on it. Not too appetizing.

Actually, now that I think of it, don't some vitamins tend to build up in your system, like too much calcium causing stones? That might be one thing to consider.

Kind of like that girl who died last week from using several drugs that all contained acetaminophen - all together, they added up to overdose level, which she wouldn't have known. :( However, the cola products are clearly labelled, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem.

fat soluable vitamins (K, for example) can build up to toxic levels. Water-soluable ones (C, B) you will piss out (B vitamins make your urine look like highlighter fluid)

as for anything with acetaminophen, they all say not to combine with other drugs that contain it. It is highly toxic.

as for GM foods, we've been genetically modifying and selecting foods since the start of civilization. This new step is no different.

So I'm sitting here with a bottle of Diet Pepsi: MAX: The Invigorating Cola (oh, yes). It's kinda odd-tasting, but slightly better than Diet Coke Plus - The Diet Cola With Vitamins Added .

And I was thinking - between my vitamin-A-enriched rice, and my genetically modified corn, it seems like there's a trend of adding supposedly "healthful" ingredients (ginseng with Pepsi, vitamins with Coke, e.g.) to products we all consume and enjoy.

So the questions I had are: what products have you noticed added vitamins or health-ingredients being added to?

Do you like them, or altered foods generally? Do you think getting extra vitamins in your food is good, or do you see those things as unholy modifications that shouldn't be done? :p


I've been buying eggs with anti-oxidants. They feed the hens flax seeds which ups the anti-oxidants in the eggs. They taste better than the regular eggs and only cost a little more. So I'm good with it.

As for genetically modified foods, the only issues I have with them is what would happen if genetically modified plants and animals outcrossed with wild kin - would we then have weeds that were unkillable?

My view is that we've been messing with the genetics of plants and animals since we started agriculture - that's what hybridization is - we've just made it more efficient. I can't see the problem.

We've also been messing with food content for about as long. Iodized salt to prevent goiter, vitamin d enriched milk, vitamin enriched bread and so on. Processing food removes nutrients, we just put them back and, maybe add a little extra - no biggie.

Folate to be added to bread
By Peter Veness
June 22, 2007

BAKERS will be forced to add folic acid to bread following a decision today by the trans-Tasman food regulator.

Food Standards Australia New Zealand's (FSANZ) decision was made in a bid to stop spina bifida and other crippling defects in babies.

Mandatory fortification would deliver pregnant women half the dose of folic acid needed to avoid the neural tube defects, which affect 350 newborns a year.

"This level of fortification is expected to prevent between 14 and 49 neural tube defects in the 300-350 affected pregnancies in Australia each year when combined with existing voluntary fortification permissions and current levels of supplement usage," FSANZ said.

"In New Zealand, this level of fortification is expected to prevent between 4-14 neural tube defects each year.

"There is a transition period of two years for the new standard."

Organic bread will be exempt from the decision.

...

Source (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21949621-1702,00.html)

Now they just need to make it mandatory that bakers give me free eclairs!

as for GM foods, we've been genetically modifying and selecting foods since the start of civilization. This new step is no different.

It's good to hear that from someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about. ;) I've heard about protests over GM stuff, but even network news coverage supplies basically no information about *why* people are against it. Odd situation.

all i want in my food and soda is the good taste i get and expect vitamins are good but i wont whine if they arent put in the food and soda's.


BRING BACK MY TRANS FAT!!!!

I've been buying eggs with anti-oxidants. They feed the hens flax seeds which ups the anti-oxidants in the eggs. They taste better than the regular eggs and only cost a little more. So I'm good with it.

As for genetically modified foods, the only issues I have with them is what would happen if genetically modified plants and animals outcrossed with wild kin - would we then have weeds that were unkillable?

My view is that we've been messing with the genetics of plants and animals since we started agriculture - that's what hybridization is - we've just made it more efficient. I can't see the problem.

We've also been messing with food content for about as long. Iodized salt to prevent goiter, vitamin d enriched milk, vitamin enriched bread and so on. Processing food removes nutrients, we just put them back and, maybe add a little extra - no biggie.

Neat - I hadn't heard about those kind of eggs. I'll have to check that out next time I'm in the egg aisle. :) We've got D-enriched milk here, too, and probably a bunch of stuff I haven't even noticed. :p The concensus seems to be that it's okay to add some vitamins.

all i want in my food and soda is the good taste i get and expect vitamins are good but i wont whine if they arent put in the food and soda's.


BRING BACK MY TRANS FAT!!!!

Exactly! What's with the sunflower-oil potato chip? It can't possibly be as good as the old trans-fat-encrusted stuff. I haven't compared it yet, but I won't be a pushover on that issue once I do. :) Taste is always important.

Exactly! What's with the sunflower-oil potato chip? It can't possibly be as good as the old trans-fat-encrusted stuff. I haven't compared it yet, but I won't be a pushover on that issue once I do. :) Taste is always important.


omg do not eat that sh** it taste awful.

omg do not eat that sh** it taste awful.

Ugh. I figured as much. :(

It's good to hear that from someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about. ;) I've heard about protests over GM stuff, but even network news coverage supplies basically no information about *why* people are against it. Odd situation.

The definition of genetic modification is to change the genetics of something. That is, without question, domestication. Look at ears of corn from 2000 years ago to today. We have always modified plants and animals genetically. I fail to see what the issue is now.

As for genetically modified foods, the only issues I have with them is what would happen if genetically modified plants and animals outcrossed with wild kin - would we then have weeds that were unkillable?


This is a big problem we will have to face.

The problem comes when they are modified to resist herbicides. The prime example is "Roundup Ready" soybeans. Roundup will kill just about any plant. But soybeans are genetically engineered to resist it. So the farmer plants the beans, waits for both the beans and the weeds to come up, then sprays the field with Roundup. This kills everything but the beans.

Sounds good but there is a chance that the genes that have been modified can escape. This has happened once when they developed Roundup Ready grass for golf courses. The idea was to plant this grass then the golf course could spray Roundup and kill every weed without killing the grass. The rule was supposed to be that the grass would never go to seed. But someone didn't get it cut soon enough and it is still being fought because the seed was carried on the wind.

The definition of genetic modification is to change the genetics of something. That is, without question, domestication. Look at ears of corn from 2000 years ago to today. We have always modified plants and animals genetically. I fail to see what the issue is now.

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is, either. I do recall some protests and some efforts to win the PR war over GM goods in African relief shipments - I think the EU banned them at one point and we were under pressure to do the same. But like you said, it does seem like a continuation of our old farm policies - hybridization and selection and all that. It's a bit confusing.

This is a big problem we will have to face.

The problem comes when they are modified to resist herbicides. The prime example is "Roundup Ready" soybeans. Roundup will kill just about any plant. But soybeans are genetically engineered to resist it. So the farmer plants the beans, waits for both the beans and the weeds to come up, then sprays the field with Roundup. This kills everything but the beans.

Sounds good but there is a chance that the genes that have been modified can escape. This has happened once when they developed Roundup Ready grass for golf courses. The idea was to plant this grass then the golf course could spray Roundup and kill every weed without killing the grass. The rule was supposed to be that the grass would never go to seed. But someone didn't get it cut soon enough and it is still being fought because the seed was carried on the wind.

There is a book that addresses this - it's called Dangerous Liasons by Dr. Norman Ellstrand, a Botanist from the University of California, Riverside. It's a scholarly book that is, apparently, accessible to the lay person.

Norman Borlaug is probably the greatest man who ever lived and you've probably never heard of him. GE crops are the best damn thing that ever happened to argriculture.

OJ does not come with calcium. For those that can't drink milk this is a good thing because that's one less pill they have to take to stay alive and in good health.

Norman Borlaug is probably the greatest man who ever lived and you've probably never heard of him. GE crops are the best damn thing that ever happened to argriculture.

OJ does not come with calcium. For those that can't drink milk this is a good thing because that's one less pill they have to take to stay alive and in good health.

Those guys really do toil in obscurity. :p

I know a guy, a retired research-leader, who worked on many of the more recent horomone treatments for cattle - I think he patented a treatment, which was rare in his field at the time. Not too much news coverage there, despite the fact that we're all ingesting the stuff they work on. :p

Terminator genes are one of the threats while i dont belive it will cause a worldwide effect i do belive that if such a gene if it should spread beyond the seed it was intended for it could do alot of damage that noone would know about till the next growing season im sure you can guess how much of a panic it would cause if suddenly farmers all across a country found themselves at half or less there normal yeilds.
The media is run by humans and humans can be bribed or can be influaced by others thay veiw as haveing power that fact that thay dont give voice to what the Anti-GMO protesters say should at the minimum make them a dubius provider of information.

(the terminator gene is made so that the plant that has it will go one generation and then all its offspring will basically die before its started while the chance of it getting into other plants is small with that kind of gene in place i think it is still an absolutly braindead risk to take just so thay can make a little extra money on seeds)

Terminator genes are one of the threats while i dont belive it will cause a worldwide effect i do belive that if such a gene if it should spread beyond the seed it was intended for it could do alot of damage that noone would know about till the next growing season im sure you can guess how much of a panic it would cause if suddenly farmers all across a country found themselves at half or less there normal yeilds.
The media is run by humans and humans can be bribed or can be influaced by others thay veiw as haveing power that fact that thay dont give voice to what the Anti-GMO protesters say should at the minimum make them a dubius provider of information.

(the terminator gene is made so that the plant that has it will go one generation and then all its offspring will basically die before its started while the chance of it getting into other plants is small with that kind of gene in place i think it is still an absolutly braindead risk to take just so thay can make a little extra money on seeds)

Interesting. Sounds more like a problem with the seed industry, rather than the seeds. Sort of like, when I buy a seedless watermelon at the store, I can't plant the seeds that get left in, because even the black ones are sterile (or so I hear). Hopefully, the more unscrupulous merchants will be exposed before the vegetables themselves are put into ill repute.

Another one is some methods of gene modification used is by utilizing Viruses for both implantation of new traits aswell as for testing if the traits work, the first one means that given enough time the new traits will make it into another type of plant mebey even in other types of creatures the secound one means that the antibiotics used to confirm if a change works also means that the used antibiotic will become useless faster.

My potato just ate my carrots.:eek:

fat soluable vitamins (K, for example) can build up to toxic levels. Water-soluable ones (C, B) you will piss out (B vitamins make your urine look like highlighter fluid)

as for anything with acetaminophen, they all say not to combine with other drugs that contain it. It is highly toxic.

OK.

as for GM foods, we've been genetically modifying and selecting foods since the start of civilization. This new step is no different.

Cutting a gene out of one species and inserting it into the genome of another is different, very different, from selecting offspring according to inherited characteristics, when the parents were species-alike enough to reproduce together.

Good to see you, btw. Your name rings good bells for me.

I like my calcium fortified juice.

My potato just ate my carrots.:eek:

:eek: vegetables cannot give consent. So your spud should be doing porridge just about now!

:eek: vegetables cannot give consent. So your spud should be doing porridge just about now!

Not without an appeal from a hung jerky.

Not without an appeal from a hung jerky.

*stares in horror*

That is a really bad pun. And I didn't make it.

*shakes fist in impotent rage*

*stares in horror*

That is a really bad pun. And I didn't make it.

*shakes fist in impotent rage*

I usually avoid them, but you left me little recourse.

EDIT: Woo! 500 post!

It should be noted it's entirely possible to OD on vitamins.

Interesting. Sounds more like a problem with the seed industry, rather than the seeds. Sort of like, when I buy a seedless watermelon at the store, I can't plant the seeds that get left in, because even the black ones are sterile (or so I hear). Hopefully, the more unscrupulous merchants will be exposed before the vegetables themselves are put into ill repute.

The seedless watermelon isn't really a genetic engineering thing. It is really the creation of a "mule" from the crossing of two species of melon just as a mule is a cross between a horse and donkey.

Terminator genes are one of the threats while i dont belive it will cause a worldwide effect i do belive that if such a gene if it should spread beyond the seed it was intended for it could do alot of damage that noone would know about till the next growing season im sure you can guess how much of a panic it would cause if suddenly farmers all across a country found themselves at half or less there normal yeilds.
The media is run by humans and humans can be bribed or can be influaced by others thay veiw as haveing power that fact that thay dont give voice to what the Anti-GMO protesters say should at the minimum make them a dubius provider of information.

(the terminator gene is made so that the plant that has it will go one generation and then all its offspring will basically die before its started while the chance of it getting into other plants is small with that kind of gene in place i think it is still an absolutly braindead risk to take just so thay can make a little extra money on seeds)

I haven't heard of this but really don't see a need for it. Because of the way modern hybrids are produced a commercial grower buys seed every year anyway. "Saved" seed isn't an option when one is after high yields and built in resistance to disease. It is today only used to preserve genetic diversity in older varieties. And a few home gardeners.

Allowing natural reproduction gives a species vast genetic diversity but controlled reproduction guarantees results. No guessing what the baby will look or act like.

The seedless watermelon isn't really a genetic engineering thing. It is really the creation of a "mule" from the crossing of two species of melon just as a mule is a cross between a horse and donkey.

All genetic engineering is, is the manipulation of genes, whether you do it indirectly through hybridization (which you have just described) or directly. We've been doing it for millenia.

Hybridization is the earliest version of genetic engineering. It produced plants that were larger, more flavorful, had some resistance to insects and disease and were better adapted to certain environments. The downside was, and still is, that they weren't viable, i.e. you couldn't get seed from them that would breed true, if they bred, they would breed back to the parent stock (which is why grafting and budding in trees, vines and shrubs was developed). So you had to repeat the whole process from year to year with varying success.

Modern genetic engineering may get around this disadvantage because even if the traits aren't passed through breeding, you can still transmit them through direct manipulation of the genes with consistent success.

I like my calcium fortified juice.

The taste seemed a bit off - a bit grainy maybe - at first. But I tried a different brand, and now I'm a fan of calcium-enriched OJ. :)

It should be noted it's entirely possible to OD on vitamins.

Heh. I can already imagine the after-school specials.

"Johnny, I'm your friend - put down the apple, we can work this out."

"It's too late for me, man - I need it (bites apple)"

"Noooo!"

:p

The seedless watermelon isn't really a genetic engineering thing. It is really the creation of a "mule" from the crossing of two species of melon just as a mule is a cross between a horse and donkey.

Interesting. I still wish I could plant those seeds, but at least I don't have to worry about growing a third ear, it seems. :p