NationStates Jolt Archive

that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?

There's this thing going on on facebook called "teh great canadian wishlist" or some such. The #1 wish is to make abortion illegal and the arguments seem to be mostly "abortions make Jesus sad" sorts of reasons... but most of the support for this wish appears to be from people who don't exist. They don't have a profile picture, they don't belong to any networks, they don't even have any friends and I'm willing to bet that the only things they did was join this one group and add support to the fundamentalist religious type wishes.

Also, see Hovind, answersingenesis.com, the entire intelligent design movement, anti-choice groups who lie about embryonic development et c.

that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?

There's this thing going on on facebook called "teh great canadian wishlist" or some such. The #1 wish is to make abortion illegal and the arguments seem to be mostly "abortions make Jesus sad" sorts of reasons... but most of the support for this wish appears to be from people who don't exist. They don't have a profile picture, they don't belong to any networks, they don't even have any friends and I'm willing to bet that the only things they did was join this one group and add support to the fundamentalist religious type wishes.

Also, see Hovind, the entire intelligent design movement, anti-choice groups who lie about embryonic development et c.
and that is your observation? that people who are supporting that don't have a profile picture and seem not to exist outside of that little world thus they must be Fundies who are lying?

Do you think it could be people ridiculing them by saying "[whatever] makes Jesus sad." which would point to non-fundies?

I've seen people sign pettitions with false names before. usually it's by people who DON'T support whatever the pettition is about.

but puppet spaming pettitions and other such sites is nothing new. so rest assured, Lying and being Dishonest isn't reserved to any ONE particular group or type of people.

now, perhaps you can answer me what are you doing browsing those sites? Looking for NSG topics to post perhaps? ;)

that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?

There's this thing going on on facebook called "teh great canadian wishlist" or some such. The #1 wish is to make abortion illegal and the arguments seem to be mostly "abortions make Jesus sad" sorts of reasons... but most of the support for this wish appears to be from people who don't exist. They don't have a profile picture, they don't belong to any networks, they don't even have any friends and I'm willing to bet that the only things they did was join this one group and add support to the fundamentalist religious type wishes.

Also, see Hovind, answersingenesis.com, the entire intelligent design movement, anti-choice groups who lie about embryonic development et c.

because people who have bought into an agenda that is fundamentally illogical, nonsensical and downright silly can either come to grips with the fact that their entire life's philosophy has been a waste or go further and further down the road to nonsense rather than stare at that cold hard truth.

now, perhaps you can answer me what are you doing browsing those sites? Looking for NSG topics to post perhaps? ;)
I'm on facebook and I came accross this wish thingy and I was like "wtf?! people in Canada aren't such neanderthals, surely this must be a mistake" when I saw that this abolish abortion business was #1. Then I looked through their supporters and found that a large number of them didn't seem to exist except to vote for this thing.

It wouldn't be weird if it was just like one or two, but I looked at a significant number of people who seemed to be friendless, network-less and profile picture-less... it's a tad suspicious.

because people who have bought into an agenda that is fundamentally illogical, nonsensical and downright silly can either come to grips with the fact that their entire life's philosophy has been a waste or go further and further down the road to nonsense rather than stare at that cold hard truth.

Stop your atheist oppression of those with faith!

And all hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/)!

Isn't Facebook that site for college clubs and stuff? Wouldn't surprise me at all that there would be a bunch of nonsense there. :p

For the most part, fundies chase fringe small issues like gay marriage and abortion, which for the most part no one cares about, and at the end of the day their arguments come down to My Opinion > Your Opinion. For the most part people should stay clear of the unconsciousable pack mentality of fundamentalism, it's dangerous and socially divisive.

that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?
The very definition of a fundamentalist--of any religion--is a person who goes back to the ancient and sacred texts and tries to worship according to the fundamentals of the religion. Now with that in mind, that has to require taking those books at face value, and assuming that they are factual--so truly fundamentalist Christians have to believe in a young earth, like Hovind preaches, or they're not taking their sacred book at face value.

Now here's a semantic issue--are they lying or being dishonest? That's more difficult, because lying and dishonesty requires intent to deceive, and I can tell you from my time as a fundy, that intent isn't generally there. These people actually believe the stuff they say--the followers anyway. I don't give their leaders the benefit of the doubt; it's the cynic in me. But they are dishonest in the sense that they refuse to look at contrary evidence in a fair and open manner. They have the mindset that if there's a conflict between Holy Writ and observable phenomena, they go with the Holy Writ.

Because fundamentalism of any stripe is inherently politicized and intellectually dishonest.

that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?

There's this thing going on on facebook called "teh great canadian wishlist" or some such. The #1 wish is to make abortion illegal and the arguments seem to be mostly "abortions make Jesus sad" sorts of reasons... but most of the support for this wish appears to be from people who don't exist. They don't have a profile picture, they don't belong to any networks, they don't even have any friends and I'm willing to bet that the only things they did was join this one group and add support to the fundamentalist religious type wishes.

Also, see Hovind, answersingenesis.com, the entire intelligent design movement, anti-choice groups who lie about embryonic development et c.

a) It's the Dualism trip. That, and the concept of Sin.

b) It's Facebook. Who gives a shit?

Radicals and partisans of any stripe do that. Heck, for the longest time (and maybe even now) the GOP was using Astroturf letters to editors to try and make it seem as if there was grassroots support for President Bush's policies.

The DNC was caught doing the same in forums as well.

I think you have to check your brain at the door when you become a radical. ;)

that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?

Because others must be saved by seeing the light through any means necessary. Lie, deceit, neglect to tell certain things that contradict your teachings.. all is fair in deitylove and holy war.

No matter that liars serve Satan.

Why does it seem...that fundamentalist religious people are the most likely to lie and generally be dishonest when pushing their point of view?

Religious zealotry provides people with enough self-righteousness to have the ends justify their slimy means.

e.g.

"It's okay to lie if I'm saving a soul!"

I think that perhaps making a statement like 'religious fundamentalists' may be a bad first start.

The reasons are as follows:

It takes time to be indoctrinated.
There are no truths to reality except what you believe to be true.
It is all a bunch of cults - what is real, how do you define something as true?

I think that by force of arms oppression and perceived capacity to doctor reality we can start to say, yes this is more true, but at that same time you become blinded to your own indoctrination, your own faith, or atleast gods fullfillment to you.

It is just a matter if you see it or not.
Of course your likely to say Fundamentalist Jew, Christian, Muslim or Hindu etc.. The established 'major world religions' that have a historic institution to them. Take into account those 'major' world religions have organized structures and seperate 'sects' within them with radically different veiw points in some cases.

Everyone has the right to their opinion, whether it attacks someone or not is their business.

Of course any externalized statements ranging from the world is round to jesus is real or mohammad isn't just a fictionalized element is right up there with there is a giant tree of knowledge or giant turtle keeping all the water from draining to gaints got shorter over time, or there is a giant alien intelligence waging a perpetual war in a bid to collect all our souls or there is a giant computer at controlling everything or whatever.

lAll I know is that I have my own faith and for that I think I have that right because I'm alive, much like I think people have the right to express they think killing babies makes jesus upset.. just be glad when you have kids that they don't support the religion of killing your first born child as a sign of faithfulness etc.

Popularity is just one form of cult worship.

You can choose to be respectful or not. If you always have good intent you never need to be sorry.

a) It's the Dualism trip. That, and the concept of Sin.

b) It's Facebook. Who gives a shit?
b) The results of this thing are supposedly going on CBC on Canada day to demonstrate the attitudes of Canadian youth. I don't want to be grouped in with a bunch of falsely voting fascists.

ICCD-Intracircumcordei;12795014']You can choose to be respectful or not. If you always have good intent you never need to be sorry.

Even if the good intent results in behaviour your moral system condemns as evil ? You know the saying: The road to hell...

You know the saying: The road to hell...has churches on both sides of the street? :p

because people who have bought into an agenda that is fundamentally illogical, nonsensical and downright silly can either come to grips with the fact that their entire life's philosophy has been a waste or go further and further down the road to nonsense rather than stare at that cold hard truth.


Heh I love this argument coz it completley denies that we all do it. It assumes that non religious people are immune to this sort of thought process and demands that we belive rationality at all times is the norm for us humans.

All of this offered with not one shred of evidance other than subjective conjucture, something that apperntly we should not enage in.

Heh fookin' great.