NationStates Jolt Archive

There is proof to back the claim the "Aliens built the Pyrimids" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theory

The facts for this are amazing

The facts for this are amazing
What facts?
"Typically proponents of these theories put forward as evidence their interpretations of various archaeological artifacts"
How is an interpretation of artifacts fact?

lawlz. :p

Only 10 posts and this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen... I mean, facts on a Wiki page! OMG!!

I interpret these artifacts to demonstrate that ancient societies worshipped internet porn as a god.

There was a show on the HIstory Channel about the Pyramids once. They interviewed this guy who claimed that the Great Pyramid was 12,000 years old (apparently he CARBON DATED THE ROCKS, YAY SCIENCE!) and built by aliens because "Ancient people could not possibly have done anything on this scale."
And apparently the sun-disc above Ra's head is actually a flying saucer.

The neutrality or factuality of this [thread] may be compromised by weasel words.

You can help Wikipedia by improving these statements.

OMG stargate!

The word you're lookng for is not facts, but speculations.

While it is interesting to speculate that "aliens" helped humanity. I still have not seen concrete proof of this. It is purely a theory and an interesting one at that. However I still find it amazing that people do not think that humans could not have done all those things in the past. Human ingenuity is an amazing thing and I haven't seen one ancient wonder or find that I can honestly say that "it couldn't be humans". Until we can find proof I say it's pure fantasy to think aliens helped us.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8536/1182215697772pv9.jpg

How is an interpretation of artifacts fact?

all hypotheses are based on the interpretation of data. that doesn't count against the "magic space lizards did it" idea. what does is the fact that their interpretations are stupid and incoherent.

Jesus put those artifacts there!

Nahh... I prefer my pseudo-science on the Velikovskian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky) side.

I think we have a potential nation for the Bad Science Region (http://www.nationstates.net/56588/page=display_region/region=bad_science).

In other news history is a conspiracy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_%28Fomenko%29)

Nahh... I prefer my pseudo-science on the Velikovskian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky) side.

me, i'll take a dash of ed conrad (http://www.edconrad.com/), if you please

me, i'll take a dash of ed conrad (http://www.edconrad.com/), if you please

Goddamn, I feel like this is a TIME CUBE (http://www.timecube.com/) moment...

*edit: "Wikipedia claim that the Time Cube is non-science constitutes a Grave error by the half-brain bastard who can't think opposite of the lies he was taught."

Gene's been updating...

There is proof to back the claim the "Aliens built the Pyrimids" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theory

The facts for this are amazing

I find it hard to believe that a race of beings capable of interstellar travel and colonization would have fucked up as badly as they had with us.

...unless...

This is their idea of entertainment! :eek:

"Insane theories one, normal theories a billion!"

I find it hard to believe that a race of beings capable of interstellar travel and colonization would have fucked up as badly as they had with us.

...unless...

This is their idea of entertainment! :eek:

I'm sorry LG, but it's true...

You're the product of over a hundred generations of artificial selection for most comedic value.

I'm sorry LG, but it's true...

You're the product of over a hundred generations of artificial selection for most comedic value.

So did I go horribly right, or horribly wrong? :confused:

We-I mean, they're not actually sure.

Alien critics are polarized on the issue.

I'm sorry LG, but it's true...

You're the product of over a hundred generations of artificial selection for most comedic value.

I can see it now... Aliens are going to their movie stores and picking out "United States: The First Decade of the 21st Century."

Or "The Life and Times of Rush Limbaugh."

:D

So did I go horribly right, or horribly wrong? :confused:

We-I mean, they're not actually sure.

Well of course there's what the Dogons are claimed to believe... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon#Mythology)

According to Robert Temple, the central element of Dogon cosmogony and cosmology is the star Sirius, which they call Po Tolo. This star was the seed of the Milky Way galaxy and is the "navel" of the entire universe. The Dogon describe the universe as "infinite, but measurable", and filled with many yalu ulo, or spiral star systems, including the one containing the Earth's sun. According to the Dogon perception of the universe, most of the universe is part of the "external" star system, while nearer to Earth is the "internal" star system. The stars in the "internal" system include many that they claim affect the lives of people of Earth and play a part in human history, including not only the Sirius star system, but also Orion, Pleiades and others.

An ethnic group that lives near the Dogon, the Bozo, have a similar mythology about Sirius in the sky and refer to it as the "Eye Star".

Goddamn, I feel like this is a TIME CUBE (http://www.timecube.com/) moment...

Ummm...

WHAT THE FUCK?!

Seriously... That makes no sense on any level. Who or what is the queer Jew God he keeps going on about? Dear Lord I think reading that page has made me retarded. I am going out to shoot myself.

Ummm...

WHAT THE FUCK?!

Seriously... That makes no sense on any level. Who or what is the queer Jew God he keeps going on about? Dear Lord I think reading that page has made me retarded. I am going out to shoot myself.

Well, "Doctor" Gene Ray isn't much of a fan of God, it seems... or educators. And Santa Claus. And a few other people that don't immediately leap to mind.

Truth about Santa Claus debunks Santa God. God evolves from Santa.

I love you guys... Seriously - I could fucking kiss each and every one of you. My dad believes this pseudo-science bullshit and his favorite movie is 'What the Bleep do we know?'. It's impossible to convince him otherwise. Any attempt to argue with him devolves into him calling science religion and refusing to have an open mind 'unscientific'. I retort that I follow the scientific method, and when he presents me with evidence, we can develop a theory and work from there. Refusing to believe completely ungrounded fantasies is not unscientific. Repeat ad infinitum.

*something about selling our ancient ancestors short*

*something about a reminder that they did awesome things, like invent beer, in particular*

Alien: "Heave!"

Homosapien type thing: "I don't wanna build this dumb-shit pyramid anymore..."

Alien: "Move your ass or I'll Zap you!!!"

Alien Race in question:

\/
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Predator_face2.JPG

Well, "Doctor" Gene Ray isn't much of a fan of God, it seems... or educators. And Santa Claus. And a few other people that don't immediately leap to mind.

I was hoping you were going to say it is all a big joke, because if it isn't that guy needs a shit-load of medication.

My wisdom so antiquates known knowledge, that
a psychiatrist examining my behavior, eccentric
by his academic single corner knowledge, knows
no course other than to judge me schizoprenic. In
today's society of greed, men of word illusion are
elected to lead and wise men are condemned. You
must establish a Chair of Wisdom to empower
Wise Men over the stupid intelligentsia, or perish.

Okay- no way he is serious.

Bullshit rooted in racist bullshit.

The neutrality or factuality of this [thread] may be compromised by weasel words.

Weasels?
http://www.mtnvet.com/images/ferrets.gif

Bullshit rooted in racist bullshit.

Fertilizer, you mean?

So did I go horribly right, or horribly wrong? :confused:

Horrible x Pi ;) .

There is proof to back the claim the "Aliens built the Pyrimids" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theory

The facts for this are amazing

I feel difficult to accept ANY proof about ANYTHING from a person who doesn't even know how to write properly "develop" and "pyramid".

Back on topic, it's total bullshit. And I say that after reading most of Von Daeniken's and Kolosimo's books. Nice for a sci-fi screenplay, but nothing more.

Usually, these "proof that the aliens did that" are about these lines:
Take a egyptian pyramid.
Take its base side and inscribe it in a circle. Now, divide the circumference of this circle by the length of the diagonal of the base side.
Then, inscribe a circle in the base side. Divide by the lenght of the pyramid's side.
OMG! Both ratios are exactly pi! This is clearly a proof that the aliens gave the Egyptians advanced science!
:rolleyes:
Suckers.

Hmm, ancient astronauts...

I recall coming across "Chariots of the Gods" when I was a teenager, and being fascinated by the ideas in it. This was in the days before the Internet and so further research meant spending time in libraries but I was interested enough, so I did the time. I've since had reason to be thankful for all that reading, because this kind of subject does pop up from time to time (and makes for great drunken dinner table conversation).

I've read all of Von Daniken's stuff, as well as numerous other works by people who pursue similar 'alternative history' theories (velikovsky, Noorbergen, Baigent, Hancock, Bauval etc.) and I must say that I'm really not convinced. Specifically, I'm in no way convinced that aliens had anything to do with any of it. I'm not big on the whole Altantean thing either.

There are anomalous artifacts- that much I do not deny. However, the fact that the majority of these have not been subjected to objective examination and that they tend to disappear when people question them too closely speaks for itself (to this observer). Now the conspiracy nuts would have us believe that such disappearances are due to some attempt to cover up the Truth (ooo, it's nice to be using that capital 'T' in a non-religious discussion :)) but I just don't buy that. Like so many conspiracy theories it fails simply because of the sheer number of disparate minds that would need to be singing from the same hymnsheet, as it were. It seems far more likely to me that the holders of these items realise that they simply wouldn't stand up to rigorous investigation.

There have been some studies that provide some compelling bodies of evidence suggesting that what is widely accepted and taught may not be entirely accurate. One example would be Robert Schoch's geology-based examinations of the Sphinx, carried out in the early 90s, which conclude that erosion patterns seen on the statue must have been caused by rain and that the Sphinx must therefore be older than the surrounding pyramids on the plateau. I can live with that, and if the accepted date for its construction had to be shifted back a few millenia then all well and good - increasing the accuracy of our knowledge of history is a great thing. It's a giant and unwarranted leap to decide that having to revise our estimates of how human civilisation developed means that aliens are involved though.

I'd be quite prepared to believe that some of the currently accepted paradigms of early history are inaccurate, and I would love to see some kind of pan-disciplinary investigations funded and carried out- if only so that the world could be rid of ideas like pyramid 'energy'.

This, then, is the great boxing match of accepted history vs alternative history. In one corner we have the people who believe that mankind has been evolved and forming civilisations for hundreds of thousands (millions?) of years, and have left behind isolated artifacts that 'prove' this to be true. Standing with them are a niche group who believe that aliens were involved (this may even include Scientologists, now that I think of it). In the other corner stand the people who believe that our current civilisation represents the peak of the species thus far, and that human history-as-taught is wholly accurate (perhaps some of the Creationists are standing near this corner too). I find myself standing in the ring, nearer the second group than the first but not really part of either.

The problem with the analogy is that this match has no rules, and no referee.

There is proof to back the claim the "Aliens built the Pyrimids" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theory

The facts for this are amazing


NO! The only god, John Frum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum) built the pyramids! There is proof that they were enormous coka-cola storage units!

No coka-cola, camel cigs or chewing gum for you, you blasphemy-spouting heretic heathen you!

http://www.antiguosastronautas.com/articulos/img_REYES04_01.jpg

all hypotheses are based on the interpretation of data. that doesn't count against the "magic space lizards did it" idea. what does is the fact that their interpretations are stupid and incoherent.

Still doesn't make them fact.

i'm not too sure how much difference it makes at this late date, we've been so complicit in screwing things up ourselves. but certain factions of non-earthly origen, ARE in violation of certain pan galactic 'united nations' edicts.

i cannot of course, reveal the source of my certainty as doing so would also violate some of these same galactic laws.

certain condements, from a workers sandwidge, did polute a priordial mud pool rich in pre-life molecular activity and might have played a roll in the emergence of life on your world. though there is a chicken and egg problem here, as the same thing is widely believed to have happened on our own as well.

(some argue it was a chicken sandwedge while others favor egg salad)

as for 'civilization', the word itself has rather odd origens, and its use, its synonymic implications, bordering on somewhat highly humorous absurdity.

civilization in the sense usage seems, or for a time any way, seemed, to imply, is a thing that is not currently dominant on your earth. that has yet to emmerge in any sufficiently robust sense to withstand the ravages of your own social coerciveness while simutaniously finding compatability with natural diversity and self perpetuation on which your life, as life forms on your planet, depends.

so i cannot say we in any way aided in the emergence of any such thing as a true civilization that has yet to. as to ancient cities, again, the marks of our hand are minimal. though some of us, slumming among you, may have had fantasies of urban planning. making pretty shapes to be seen from space that were of little sense or utility to a majority of their occupants.

=^^=
.../\...

This idea is not only laughable, it's also offensive. The idea that ancient/non-European civilizations *must* have had help from extraterrestrials to do what they did smacks of racism and cultural imperialism.

Notice how it says purported evidence. For those of us who don't know what purported means, it means "appear or claim to be or do something, especially falsely".

I need to find that show where they proposed sand ramps were made to haul the blocks needed...

This idea is not only laughable, it's also offensive. The idea that ancient/non-European civilizations *must* have had help from extraterrestrials to do what they did smacks of racism and cultural imperialism.

what makes you think "european civilizations" are excluded?

the only thing more oxymoronic then "european civilizations" is "(modern, i.e. contemporary as of the last few hundred years) american civilization"

=^^=
../\...

Weasels?
http://www.mtnvet.com/images/ferrets.gif

Weasels FTW. ...they're harmless. And cute!

what makes you think "european civilizations" are excluded?
I place a bet on petty reverse racism.:p Also lack of knowledge about Von Daeniken et al. .

i love this pseudo-science stuff. funnily enough this sort of thing is what got me interested in archaeology in the first place. but honestly, that wiki page is full of lolz.

I place a bet on petty reverse racism.:p Also lack of knowledge about Von Daeniken et al. .

but where are you placing it? i've read von don'kin doughnuts and velokovski both, when the first came out, which was long enough ago to have forgotten most of what they said.

meh. what's good for getting goosed is good for getting gandered, or something.

modern civilizations came from ancient ones and even the greeks got all that curley hair from somewhere. nature abhores perfect repeatability and loves diversity.

and yes, the aliens did it, does beg the question, well then where, how, did THEY get it. were there aliens to the aleins that brought it to them, and to them and to them, ad infinitum too?

=^^=
.../\...

It's quite obvious that this is the work of The Master.

It's quite obvious that this is the work of The Master.

precisely! at least giving the etruscans the styrup had to have been.

=^^=
.../\...

Ah, you're all a bunch of screwheads, of course, I built the pyramids.:rolleyes:

Aliens.... ugh, this is once again bringing back that odd experience I had with that teacher I mentioned in the "worst teacher" thread. The stuff she spewed was completely screwball, nice that wiki has also jumped on the screwball bandwagon. :p

I think, though I'd have to look it up, that the pyramids have been shown to be mirror images of the night sky at something like the equinox, with the Nile being the Milky Way and the pyramids of Giza being Orion's Belt - there's other pyramids and they all match up - I think, though again not sure, that it's fairly conclusive.

Most ancient civilizations worshiped the moon and stars primarily...I think. It makes sense as the sun doesn't provide much in the way of navigation, time or seasons, at least not as much as the stars - which are far more wondrous anyway.

Ah, you're all a bunch of screwheads, of course, I built the pyramids.:rolleyes:

And you're all a bunch of pyramids. Together, we might be able to construct a human.

Still doesn't make them fact.

well, in so far as they are using actual artifacts to build their interpretations from, they are using facts.

Were they illegal aliens?

Were they illegal aliens?

yes. you think citizens were going to spend their time dragging huge-ass rocks all over the place?

So where did they all go?

I very highly doubt that aliens would look anything like humans, not mentioning their spacesuits... :rolleyes:

So where did they all go?

still here, secretly running the world. damn shape-shifting reptilian royal family...

You're all wrong, the pyramids were designed as sex toys for our giant alien overlords.

What does devolep mean?

still here, secretly running the world. damn shape-shifting reptilian royal family...

Don't forget about the cops, they're in on it too.

We should be teaching this theory in SCHOOLS! Forget about that "unproven" theory called evolution, and move over Intellegent Design, there is a new theory in town! Think of the children. ;)

You're all wrong, the pyramids were designed as sex toys for our giant alien overlords.

hence the variety of design features. like the mayan ones that are ribbed for our giant alien overlords' pleasure.

and just look at stonehenge...

hence the variety of design features. like the mayan ones that are ribbed for our giant alien overlords' pleasure.

and just look at stonehenge...

Stonehenge is for group use. *nods*

still here, secretly running the world. damn shape-shifting reptilian royal family...

I mean, in the theories of people less delusional than David Icke.

I mean, in the theories of people less delusional than David Icke.

oh

hmm, good question

Were they illegal aliens?

Of course. They had come from Atlantis, without passports.

I find it hard to believe that a race of beings capable of interstellar travel and colonization would have fucked up as badly as they had with us.

...unless...

This is their idea of entertainment! :eek:or worse... they were on drugs! :eek:

I like the Nazca lines (http://www.crystalinks.com/nazca.html) myself.

especially when a new one was discovered just last year.

There is proof to back the claim the "Aliens built the Pyrimids" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theory

The facts for this are amazing
Seems like nonsense.

hence the variety of design features. like the mayan ones that are ribbed for our giant alien overlords' pleasure.

and just look at stonehenge...

needle-ss to say (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk)

precisely! at least giving the etruscans the styrup had to have been.

=^^=
.../\...

It's part of his ingenious plan which is to.... um... I'm sure he has his reasons.

It's quite obvious that this is the work of The Master.

I wouldn't be surprised to find ancient Egyptian paintings depicting a blue police box.

There is proof to back the claim the "Aliens built the Pyrimids" idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronaut_theory

The facts for this are amazing

Hey!! That's sorta what is in my sig hehe. I just recently learned of the Black Sun, Thule Society, Vril Society, Shambhala and that dude Zechariah Sitchin. Not that I believe it, or can outright say it's impossible either. I just find some mysticism/occult stuff interesting. But what I find really interesting are the people that believe it and what the ones in the past have done (especially) and do because of or connected to that belief.

There was a show on the HIstory Channel about the Pyramids once. They interviewed this guy who claimed that the Great Pyramid was 12,000 years old (apparently he CARBON DATED THE ROCKS, YAY SCIENCE!) and built by aliens because "Ancient people could not possibly have done anything on this scale."
And apparently the sun-disc above Ra's head is actually a flying saucer.

Yeah, I've never understood that line of thinking. The people that actually believe sheer man power with a true will do it, all working toward a common goal couldn't have built them are seriously lacking imagination. IMO. As far as their technology goes. They don't know everything these people had. But I don't think it would've required the technology they think it must have taken.

Yeah, I've never understood that line of thinking. The people that actually believe sheer man power with a true will do it, all working toward a common goal couldn't have built them are seriously lacking imagination. IMO. As far as their technology goes. They don't know everything these people had. But I don't think it would've required the technology they think it must have taken.

Agreed. Just takes a whole shit-load of slaves, some whips, and a bit of time.

Agreed. Just takes a whole shit-load of slaves, some whips, and a bit of time.

Isn't the current theory that the pyramids were built by non-slaves?

Isn't the current theory that the pyramids were built by non-slaves?

I believe that the current theory is that the regular Egyptians built the pyramids when they were not tending crops. Maybe some slaves were thrown into the mix but the theory is that largely non-slave labor was used.

I believe that the current theory is that the regular Egyptians built the pyramids when they were not tending crops. Maybe some slaves were thrown into the mix but the theory is that largely non-slave labor was used.

Considering that the Pharoah was supposedly divine, they didn't have anything better to be doing at the time and got fed it makes the most sense.

I believe that the current theory is that the regular Egyptians built the pyramids when they were not tending crops. Maybe some slaves were thrown into the mix but the theory is that largely non-slave labor was used.

and iirc, they actually have some of the ancient egyptian equivalent of paystubs now.

You know, this reminds me of the Mound Builder Myths that surrounded the earthen mounds of North America. Early settlers and colonists to America just couldn't believe that the "primitive" natives could create these structures(Some were quite massive on scale, over a hundred feet tall on some, and others stretched for 50 miles!). So, they came up with the notion that early Europeans came over, and built the mounds(Among other nonsense). The truth, however, is that yes, Native Americans did build this amazing structures, and yes they were very capable of doing so.

Also, it seems when people think of "Indian Mounds", they think of small burial mounds. Not all were small. Like I said, there is one that stretched about 50 miles long, and was eight feet tall. What's more, it was actually two separate mounds, with each on the side of a road. Others were precise geometric shapes, and complexes.

People with their over active imaginations.

You serious? No slaves? That makes them all the more impressive.

You know, this reminds me of the Mound Builder Myths that surrounded the earthen mounds of North America. Early settlers and colonists to America just couldn't believe that the "primitive" natives could create these structures(Some were quite massive on scale, over a hundred feet tall on some, and others stretched for 50 miles!). So, they came up with the notion that early Europeans came over, and built the mounds(Among other nonsense). The truth, however, is that yes, Native Americans did build this amazing structures, and yes they were very capable of doing so.

Also, it seems when people think of "Indian Mounds", they think of small burial mounds. Not all were small. Like I said, there is one that stretched about 50 miles long, and was eight feet tall. What's more, it was actually two separate mounds, with each on the side of a road. Others were precise geometric shapes, and complexes.

People with their over active imaginations.


I think I know what mounds you are talking about. I saw something on the history channel about it too. They showed the way they think they were built and what they were for. Elevated bases, temples and the highest mound was where the ruler resided or something. There was a battle there with.. I want to say the Spaniards, but not certain. Tried a quick google search just now but all that turned up was stuff about Tenochtitlán in Central America.

lol, im thinking stargate so bad right now, i could easily believe that.

By now, you've all realized why the circumfrence of a circle circumcribed around a pyramid, divided by the length of a diagonal, equals the ratio of pi, right?

C = 2(pi)r

So, you divide the circumfrence by 2r (2 times the radius, ie one half of the diagonal) and you get C/2r = pi.

I know most of you got it, I'm just putting this up for those that might not have.

You serious? No slaves? That makes them all the more impressive.

I think the current theory is that the building of massive structures was an important way to reduce unemployment during non-farming times by hiring the farmers for menial work.

If that is true then it is pretty much the same as modern times, when massive public works were created using a large amount of then unemployed people.

I wonder if the pyramids and temples were considered as public works (due to Egypt following that particullar religion?

lol, im thinking stargate so bad right now, i could easily believe that.

*Eyes light up*

It's part of his ingenious plan which is to.... um... I'm sure he has his reasons.

not neccessarily an ingenious plan. more likely short sighted indifference. which itself seems to have since become the dominant, and quite possibly self dooming, if we don't get our heads out of it real soon, culture.

... alas poor adric, we knew him ...

=^^=
.../\...

now there are LOTs of ways the (egyptian and other) pyramids could have been constructed, and the real reason does seem to have been to give a priestly beaurocracy something to do. along with that trying to impress each other thing, like cow tipping and truck bowling.

it was a way of saying to people "look, this is what we can do togather that none of you could do working alone" and of course also "this is what can be done with a hierarchy that you're not ever going to be able to do without one, so keep kissing our, i mean keeping us in power, so we can go on to do more glorious and wonderful things", you see sort of things. of course what hierarchies went on to do, rather then 'wonderful things' was to draft their young citizens into armies and send them off to kill each other, which we all would be better off if they hadn't, though most of us still haven't seemed to have figgured that out yet either.

=^^=
.../\...

You wanted non-wikipedi facts

http://www.daeniken.com/
http://www.ufoarea.com/main_ancientastronauts.html
http://members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/vondaniken.html

I interpret these artifacts to demonstrate that ancient societies worshipped internet porn as a god.

Holy shit! I'm a modern day prophet and didn't even know it! :eek:

You wanted non-wikipedi facts

http://www.daeniken.com/
http://www.ufoarea.com/main_ancientastronauts.html
http://members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/vondaniken.html

Bah, I see nothing there of any interest whatsoever.

The Maoi, for instance, of Easter island aren't that convincing(I stopped looking through those after those were mentioned). Early maoi were very normal looking in shape and size. They were more or less accurate representations of people. However, the culture of the island was basically who ever had the bigger statue was better, more or less. So thus, the people continued to elongate the heads of the maoi to make them bigger and bigger, thus gaining more status on the island.

This has been known for some time, and there is no "mystery" involving the maoi at all. We know where they were quarried, we have found the tools they used to carve them, as well they were far more life like when they were made when they had sea-shell eyes in place. Honestly, if they don't even know this simple fact of the maoi, I give them zero credit, at all.

I wouldn't be surprised to find ancient Egyptian paintings depicting a blue police box.

Or mebbe a vengeful Dalek God.