NationStates Jolt Archive


Bush suffers court setbacks in war on terrorism

Maineiacs
17-06-2007, 19:09
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush's broad assertions of power in his war on terrorism are under assault by U.S. judges who have rejected his indefinite imprisonment of enemy combatants and the domestic spying program.

A pair of recent rulings, one from military judges and the other from a U.S. appeals court, delivered new legal setbacks for Bush's tactics in dealing with terrorism suspects held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, or in the United States.

"In case after case, this nation's judicial branch has told the administration that it may not trample on fundamental rights in the name of national security," said Hina Shamsi of the New York-based group Human Rights First.

A federal appeals court panel in Virginia ruled 2-1 on Monday that Bush could not declare civilians in this country to be enemy combatants and have the military hold them indefinitely.

The ruling said Bush overstepped his authority in the case of a Qatari national and suspected al-Qaeda operative, Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, who has been held in military custody for four years without any charges.

Human rights and civil liberties groups said the decision underscored the importance of judicial review as a check on Bush's executive power.

"Once again, the courts have stepped in to rein in the executive and restore the rule of law," said Jennifer Daskal, U.S. advocacy director of Human Rights Watch.

The ruling came a week after military judges dismissed all charges against the only two Guantanamo prisoners facing trial, saying they had been designated only as "enemy combatants," and not "unlawful enemy combatants" as required by a 2006 law.

The decisions added to a number of earlier rulings that went against the Bush administration over the past three years.

Last August, a federal judge in Detroit ruled that Bush's domestic spying program, adopted after the September 11 attacks, violated free-speech rights, protections against unreasonable searches and the constitutional check on the power of the presidency.

Five months later, the administration abandoned the program and agreed to get court approval for the electronic surveillance. It still has appealed the ruling to a U.S. appeals court, which has yet to decide.

The U.S. Supreme Court in three rulings since 2004 has rejected Bush's position in terrorism cases, including the most recent one a year ago that struck down as illegal his initial system of military trials for Guantanamo prisoners.

Bush administration officials predicted the al-Marri decision would be overturned by the full appeals court, which is controlled by conservative judges and has ruled for the administration in at least two other terrorism cases.

'LAW IS ON OUR SIDE'

"We think the law is on our side in this one," one U.S. official said. The official and others said al-Marri trained at an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan during the 1990s and entered the United States just before the September 11 attacks as a "sleeper agent."

The officials also expressed confidence the two Guantanamo trials ultimately would go forward.

The Pentagon has asked the military judges to reconsider their decisions. If the judges refuse, the administration next could appeal to a military court, they said.

The officials point to some significant wins for Bush's terrorism policies.

A U.S. appeals court in February upheld the law that Bush pushed through the then-Republican-led Congress last year that took away the right of the Guantanamo prisoners to challenge their confinement before U.S. federal judges.

That law also created the new system of military trials for Guantanamo prisoners to replace the one struck down by the Supreme Court.

With Democrats now in control of Congress, legislation is moving forward that would restore the rights of the approximately 380 prisoners now at Guantanamo to challenge their imprisonment.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070617/pl_nm/bush_security_court_dc_1;_ylt=Akt4XFj_aKabzHMFl5TJ7PUE1vAI

So, is another branch of the government finally asserting itself, since the Dems in Congress have failed to do so? And what about Habeus Corpus? Do we get that back? Will the Administration just ignore these rulings, or trot out the "judges legislating from the bench" excuse that has served them so well the last six years? What say you all?
Ifreann
17-06-2007, 19:13
The Official White House Response: "Lalalalalawecanthearyoulalalalala"

<snip>
I can't believe you actually put that in your sig.
Zilam
17-06-2007, 19:15
Yay for freedom!

However, do you think that bush will obey the courts? He had the gall to disobey the law in the first place, so who's to saw that he will start obeying them now?
Zilam
17-06-2007, 19:25
I can't believe you actually put that in your sig.


eh, someone gave me the idea for it :-p
Ifreann
17-06-2007, 19:27
eh, someone gave me the idea for it :-p

Yeah, I know. I was there. I'm pretty sure the general consensus was that it was a crappy idea.

But less threadjacking and more speculating about whether this is going to make any difference to the people in Guantanamo. I suspect that as long as Bush is in power they'll be staying put, unfortunately. Let's hope the next president will actually do something about that whole big clusterfuck.
Maineiacs
17-06-2007, 19:44
I suspect that as long as Bush is in power they'll be staying put, unfortunately. Let's hope the next president will actually do something about that whole big clusterfuck.

I imagine you're right. Has any candidate even addressed this yet?
The Brevious
17-06-2007, 19:48
Let's hope the next president will actually do something about that whole big clusterfuck.
Oh great, ANOTHER faith-based initiative with painful, expensive results.
:mad:
The Brevious
17-06-2007, 19:52
huh?

I underlined/bolded it.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12780857&postcount=7

Looks like i got choice warpage on this thread!
Desperate Measures
17-06-2007, 19:52
Oh great, ANOTHER faith-based initiative with painful, expensive results.
:mad:

huh?
Desperate Measures
17-06-2007, 20:00
I underlined/bolded it.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12780857&postcount=7

Looks like i got choice warpage on this thread!

Yeah, I saw that you underlined and bolded it... then I said, "huh?" and thought that maybe you'd expand your post a little. But you just referred me back to something that makes me say, "huh?".


huh?
The Brevious
17-06-2007, 20:03
Yeah, I saw that you underlined and bolded it... then I said, "huh?" and thought that maybe you'd expand your post a little. But you just referred me back to something that makes me say, "huh?".


huh?

Roger. (Huh?)
What's our vector, Victor?

As in, it's too far in to just hope that the next guy is gonna do something good.
We all know it's gonna be bad, so it's gonna take someone who
pays attention
listens to experts on the actual situation and considers their advice, following up with according accommodations in strategy
isn't gonna be shooting this huge shit out on the *hopes* that we'll be greeted as liberators and everything's gonna work out hunky-dory in a great big democracy cake-walk

It isn't hope for the best time anymore. We need to be seriously more discriminating in our leaders of the free world, other than "he'd be a good guy to have a drink with".
Allemonde
17-06-2007, 20:05
Bout time someone reign in Bushes uncontrollable desire for power. Now we need to get them Dems to put impeachment back on the table which seems impossible with what a bunch of p-----s the democrats are.


http://www.worldcantwait.org/
Utracia
17-06-2007, 20:05
Considering the Bush administration response to things like courts restoring civil rights for suspected terrorists is often " go fuck yourself!" I don't see if this will help very much.
The Brevious
17-06-2007, 20:06
It was his failed attempt at a joke, i believe.


Brevvy, you gotta try harder to be funny next time :p

I was chewing on tinfoil at the time.
So your sig - does it have Dobbsworld's pic link on it?

Two cool warps in one morning. Interesting.
Zilam
17-06-2007, 20:07
Yeah, I saw that you underlined and bolded it... then I said, "huh?" and thought that maybe you'd expand your post a little. But you just referred me back to something that makes me say, "huh?".


huh?


It was his failed attempt at a joke, i believe.


Brevvy, you gotta try harder to be funny next time :p
Desperate Measures
17-06-2007, 20:07
Roger. (Huh?)
What's our vector, Victor?

As in, it's too far in to just hope that the next guy is gonna do something good.
We all know it's gonna be bad, so it's gonna take someone who
pays attention
listens to experts on the actual situation and considers their advice, following up with according accomodations in strategy
isn't gonna be shooting this huge shit out on the *hopes* that we'll be greeted as liberators and everything's gonna work out hunky-dory in a great big democracy cake-walk

It isn't hope for the best time anymore. We need to be seriously more discriminating in our leaders of the free world, other than "he'd be a good guy to have a drink with".

Ah!

Thank-you.

Yes.
Muravyets
18-06-2007, 01:25
Yay for freedom!

However, do you think that bush will obey the courts? He had the gall to disobey the law in the first place, so who's to saw that he will start obeying them now?

He's not going to obey them. He's going to stall, lie, and if push comes to shove, start thumping his chest and screaming about how he's the president, the way he usually does. And those poor bastards in GITMO will stay there until the next president takes office.

But what this does show is increasing obstruction of the actions of the Bush admin, which in the absence of a way to force them out of power before the general election, seems to be the best we can hope for. It may also give support to administration officials who do not want to carry out Bush's policies but also do not want to get treated the way Joe Wilson and General Shinseki did. It will be marginally more difficult for Bush/Cheney to blackball a staffer for refusing to do something that the courts have already declared illegal.
The Brevious
18-06-2007, 01:27
It will be marginally more difficult for Bush/Cheney to blackball a staffer for refusing to do something that the courts have already declared illegal.
Appealappealappeaappealappealappealappealappealchangelawappeal
Muravyets
18-06-2007, 01:43
Appealappealappeaappealappealappealappealappealchangelawappeal

Hey, fine, let them go for it. Nobody can eat up time better than a bunch of lawyers arguing minute points of law in endless rounds of appeals. As long as the matter is in question, people who don't want to be King George's torturers and "disappearers" will have a way to weasel out of taking any action.

If we can't take postive action against Bush, then we can at least prevent negative actions by Bush, and if we can't do it directly, we can at least do it indirectly.
Maineiacs
18-06-2007, 01:45
I only hope the next President does undo the absues of the Bush administration, and doesn't decide that this stuff might be useful to him/her.
Gauthier
18-06-2007, 02:12
I only hope the next President does undo the absues of the Bush administration, and doesn't decide that this stuff might be useful to him/her.

And if it's a Republican, I want to hear him or her make a public Khruschev-style speech laying the smack down on Beloved Dear Leader's quarter-assed handling of this great country.
Maineiacs
18-06-2007, 02:22
So far, most of the GOP candidates seem to be distancing themselves from our beloved Commander-in-Chimp.
Raistlins Apprentice
18-06-2007, 03:23
Bush clearly won't care, and our legislative branch isn't going to actually do anything to stop him. Solution? Time to blow up Parliament!

.....wait.
We don't have a parliament to blow up....
:p
The Nazz
18-06-2007, 03:25
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070617/pl_nm/bush_security_court_dc_1;_ylt=Akt4XFj_aKabzHMFl5TJ7PUE1vAI

So, is another branch of the government finally asserting itself, since the Dems in Congress have failed to do so? And what about Habeus Corpus? Do we get that back? Will the Administration just ignore these rulings, or trot out the "judges legislating from the bench" excuse that has served them so well the last six years? What say you all?
I'm tired of this crap. The Dems don't have enough of a majority in either house to override a veto and they don't have enough in the Senate to beat a filibuster. If you want to give a party some shit for not keeping Bush in check, talk to the fucking Republicans. They put party over country for the last 6 years, and still refuse to change.
Maineiacs
18-06-2007, 03:34
I'm tired of this crap. The Dems don't have enough of a majority in either house to override a veto and they don't have enough in the Senate to beat a filibuster. If you want to give a party some shit for not keeping Bush in check, talk to the fucking Republicans. They put party over country for the last 6 years, and still refuse to change.

OK, point taken.
The Brevious
18-06-2007, 03:35
Bush clearly won't care, and our legislative branch isn't going to actually do anything to stop him. Solution?
Focus Groups!
Study Groups!
New Positions in Government!
Czars!
New Departments in Government!
Speeches!
Photo opportunities!
Talking points!
Radio announcements!
...
...

Memorandum.
The Nazz
18-06-2007, 03:57
OK, point taken.

Sorry for jumping on you like that, but it's an important point. I'm as activist as they come, and wish the Congress could do more--and that's not to say that the leadership has been perfect--but they've dome damn well, I think, in getting some legislation out there and forcing Republicans to take difficult stands where it becomes even more clear that they're putting party over country.
Maineiacs
18-06-2007, 05:13
True enough, and I suppose it's the best we can do at least until 2009.