NationStates Jolt Archive

It's got 509,000 names on it (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/fbi_terror_watc.html). That's nearly the population of Wyoming.
A spokesman for the interagency National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), which maintains the government's list of all suspected terrorists with links to international organizations, said they had 465,000 names covering 350,000 individuals. Many names are different versions of the same identity -- "Usama bin Laden" and "Osama bin Laden" for the al Qaeda chief, for example.

In addition to the NCTC list, the FBI keeps a list of U.S. persons who are believed to be domestic terrorists -- abortion clinic bombers, for example, or firebombing environmental extremists, who have no known tie to an international terrorist group.

Combined, the NCTC and FBI compendia comprise the watch list used by federal security screening personnel on the lookout for terrorists.
And this is going to keep us safe? :rolleyes:

The solution is simple.
Move everybody out of Wyoming and re-populate the state with terrorists. Then we build a huge wall around it.
Its not like anybody cares about Wyoming anyway.

It's got 509,000 names on it (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/fbi_terror_watc.html). That's nearly the population of Wyoming.

And this is going to keep us safe? :rolleyes:

You could probably do a better job of maintaining an accurate list. But that would probably take more people and time than they can bother with.

On the other hand, it's probably better than doing nothing at all.

The solution is simple.
Move everybody out of Wyoming and re-populate the state with terrorists. Then we build a huge wall around it.
Its not like anybody cares about Wyoming anyway.

Isn't that the state with more cows than people?

Isn't that the state with more cows than people?

Oh? We can move the Hindu population there as well!
Oh...wait...Muslim + Hindu = Bad
...nevermind. We can put the Muslims in North Dakota. Or Utah >_>

I wonder if my name is on there :)

And yet an agent let our modern Typhoid Mary into the country even though he was flagged.

They want to extend the uses of this list to remove even more rights.

So do we get to ego-search it? Not even for genealogical purposes?

So do we get to ego-search it? Not even for genealogical purposes?

don't be silly, lists of groups the government has branded as terrorists is top secret! :p

You could probably do a better job of maintaining an accurate list. But that would probably take more people and time than they can bother with.

On the other hand, it's probably better than doing nothing at all.

When there are common names, innocents get caught up in the web and their lives are heavily affected by bureaucratic nonsense. Sure it creates the illusion of safety but at what cost?

There are people who probably have similar names to those on the watch list and are likely innocent but won't be treated as such because their name is too close to someone else's.

How would you feel if there was a wanted criminal (and the details about him at this point are vague) who had a name VERY similar to yours and while you were getting your license updated someone thought something was fishy and pulled you aside and after the names matched they arrested you to question you further. That would affect your dignity wouldn't it? After all, you're innocent and your only crime is having a name like the criminal.

They question you and you maintain you're innocent but they think that just to be safe, they're going to put you in jail over night.

That's the same thing with any of these lists.

Sure in theory it may be a good idea but in practice it's terrible because you need to have the right information in order for it to work.

When there are common names, innocents get caught up in the web and their lives are heavily affected by bureaucratic nonsense. Sure it creates the illusion of safety but at what cost?

There are people who probably have similar names to those on the watch list and are likely innocent but won't be treated as such because their name is too close to someone else's.

Google the name "Hasan Elahi" for a frightening story along those lines. It doesn't involve torture or anything--it involves a man whose response to being on that watch list was to divest himself of all his privacy.

It is just the regular bureaucracy in any government organization. I was watching an interview earlier this week with one of the agents that initially comprised the list following 9/11. He has since retired. Needless to say, instead of combing through the various lists of each part of the agency, they just stacked them on top of one another. So, names on the list include 14 of the terrorists from 9/11. As well as Saddam Hussein, Zaccarias Mossoui, and a bunch of other “big” names.

Basically, the guy was talking about how at the time the list was made, they had no idea who to put on it so they just took lists upon lists and stuck them together.

John Lydon - Bin Laden? Close enough? It was in 2004 when John Lydon was placed on the Dept of Homeland Security's no-fly list.

John Lydon - Bin Laden? Close enough? It was in 2004 when John Lydon was placed on the Dept of Homeland Security's no-fly list.

John Lydon. As in Johnny Rotten, leader of the famous idiotic punk band the Sex Pistols?

http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20050427.html

The solution is simple.
Move everybody out of Wyoming and re-populate the state with terrorists. Then we build a huge wall around it.
Its not like anybody cares about Wyoming anyway.

I liked George Carlin's idea of what to do with all the drug addicts and violent criminals and stuff. Put them all in the four square states that are close together, build a fence around each one, every once in a while open a gate so some violent criminals can get into the drug addict state, or whatever, drop in all the guns, drugs, etc, they want, then broadcast it on live TV.

That's just stupid. And what's even worse, is that this list is only going to get longer. This really makes me feel safe :rolleyes:.

John Lydon. As in Johnny Rotten, leader of the famous idiotic punk band the Sex Pistols?
The very same.

When there are common names, innocents get caught up in the web and their lives are heavily affected by bureaucratic nonsense. Sure it creates the illusion of safety but at what cost?

There are people who probably have similar names to those on the watch list and are likely innocent but won't be treated as such because their name is too close to someone else's.

How would you feel if there was a wanted criminal (and the details about him at this point are vague) who had a name VERY similar to yours and while you were getting your license updated someone thought something was fishy and pulled you aside and after the names matched they arrested you to question you further. That would affect your dignity wouldn't it? After all, you're innocent and your only crime is having a name like the criminal.

They question you and you maintain you're innocent but they think that just to be safe, they're going to put you in jail over night.

That's the same thing with any of these lists.

Sure in theory it may be a good idea but in practice it's terrible because you need to have the right information in order for it to work.


Like when my sister-in-law took her two kids (son aged 10 and daughter aged 6) to Disneyworld, only to be held up for several hours while Homeland Security sent photos of her daughter to Washington because her name (or one similar to it) had turned up on the terror lists (with all the attendant stress & uncertainty on the part of the kids as to whether they were going to get to go at all).

Fucking nuts.

It's got 509,000 names on it (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/fbi_terror_watc.html). That's nearly the population of Wyoming.

And this is going to keep us safe? :rolleyes:

Wow, THAT really narrows things down! Since it's so few people, I don't see why you guys don't just go and have them all assassinated. Problem solved!

Like when my sister-in-law took her two kids (son aged 10 and daughter aged 6) to Disneyworld, only to be held up for several hours while Homeland Security sent photos of her daughter to Washington because her name (or one similar to it) had turned up on the terror lists (with all the attendant stress & uncertainty on the part of the kids as to whether they were going to get to go at all).

Fucking nuts.

Well, we refuse to fly through the US, because my husband shares the same name with a militant reconquista advocate. I could just see it, 'Ah, Mr. So and So! Time to deport you back to Mexico!'.

'Um, you idiot, I'm a Canadian citizen, born in Chile.'

'Sure, sure, just like that guy who claimed he was born in East LA...'

John Lydon - Bin Laden? Close enough? It was in 2004 when John Lydon was placed on the Dept of Homeland Security's no-fly list.

Remember when U.S. authorities wouldn't let Yusaf Islam (Cat Stevens) into the U.S. for concerns he might be connected with suspected terrorists? He wasn't.

Wow, THAT really narrows things down! Since it's so few people, I don't see why you guys don't just go and have them all assassinated. Problem solved!

Don't give them any ideas.

Don't give them any ideas.

Ha. True.

Then again, there's a difference between knowing someone by name, or even having a photo of them...and finding them.

Well, we refuse to fly through the US, because my husband shares the same name with a militant reconquista advocate. I could just see it, 'Ah, Mr. So and So! Time to deport you back to Mexico!'.

'Um, you idiot, I'm a Canadian citizen, born in Chile.'

'Sure, sure, just like that guy who claimed he was born in East LA...'

Yeah I don't see people falling all over themselves to become "Canada's Next Maher Arar" anytime soon. But a six-year old? C'mon - surely that can't be the droid they're looking for. Look out, she might do her impression of Gollum at you.

Yeah I don't see people falling all over themselves to become "Canada's Next Maher Arar" anytime soon. But a six-year old? C'mon - surely that can't be the droid they're looking for. Look out, she might do her impression of Gollum at you.

That's just insane. But hey, as long as a few, very foolish people, feel safe because of it, then hey! Who cares how ridiculous it is!

Don't give them any ideas.

Hey Nazz, was it the old poster 'The Red Arrow' who used to go on at length about Halliburton building regional concentration camp facilities all throughout the U.S. (but of course never referred to as 'concentration camps', instead as something like 'multi-purpose temporary shelter centers' or somesuch)?

I was wondering about those the other day, whether they were real or not. Thought you might recall more clearly.

Hey Nazz, was it the old poster 'The Red Arrow' who used to go on at length about Halliburton building regional concentration camp facilities all throughout the U.S. (but of course never referred to as 'concentration camps', instead as something like 'multi-purpose temporary shelter centers' or somesuch)?

I was wondering about those the other day, whether they were real or not. Thought you might recall more clearly.

I vaguely remember the story and I remember not putting much stock in it. But if the last six years has taught me anything, it's that you can't be too cynical when it comes to the people in charge right now.

Like when my sister-in-law took her two kids (son aged 10 and daughter aged 6) to Disneyworld, only to be held up for several hours while Homeland Security sent photos of her daughter to Washington because her name (or one similar to it) had turned up on the terror lists (with all the attendant stress & uncertainty on the part of the kids as to whether they were going to get to go at all).

Fucking nuts.

Well, we refuse to fly through the US, because my husband shares the same name with a militant reconquista advocate. I could just see it, 'Ah, Mr. So and So! Time to deport you back to Mexico!'.

'Um, you idiot, I'm a Canadian citizen, born in Chile.'

'Sure, sure, just like that guy who claimed he was born in East LA...'

If there was any proof that no-fly lists, watch lists and variations thereof should be thoroughly scrutinised and re-evaluated, this is it.

It's one thing to have extensive information that can correctly link the person to the profile and make the searched based on relevant intelligence. That is what your typical police force must do. It's another to simply have a list and use it to try and snare anyone and everyone in the name of 'national security' to make the public feel it's safer when it's really no safer than it was before 9/11.

The only thing that has change is that we are faced with greater inconveniences designed into making people believe we're safer than we once were. Some people are willing to believe it and that is truly the saddest thing of all.

sounds about right

I remember when I traveled with a friend whose name was on a watchlist.

Apparently the excuse given by the government was that his last name is fairly common in Iran. His boarding pass had an extra stamp on it , which signified that he must ALWAYS have his luggage searched, no exceptions (I compared it to the Stars of David the Nazis made Jews wear). He was so used to it that he didn't bother to bring very much with him on flights. When I flew with him he was detained for about half an hour and released with just enough time to board the plane.

Oh, and he is a 17-year old fourth generation Jewish-American who has supported the war in Iraq from the beginning and will be attending the Citadel (a military academy) next year.

This isn't supposed to make anyone feel safe. It's supposed to make everyone afraid. Think about it.

This isn't supposed to make anyone feel safe. It's supposed to make everyone afraid. Think about it.

I thought maybe what they planned was to put together a list with so many names on it, that they'd be guaranteed to go out of their way to unnecessarily hassle at least one person per flight, thus giving the illusion to the other (voting) passengers that - by being a bunch of nosey officious dicks, the apes at the airport (the security guards on the front lines) are helping to 'win' someone's spurious 'war' on 'terror' (or at least on people with names on someone's list).

It is to laugh oneself unconscious.

I highly doubt Osama would use his real name, let alone come here. Even if he did use his real name, no one would believe him.

I highly doubt Osama would use his real name, let alone come here. Even if he did use his real name, no one would believe him.

What a kick for him that'd be if he managed to pull it off, though.

"My name? Osama - Osama Lib Naden. *chuckles* Yeah, I get that all the time. Oh, c'mon... you think I'd be that dumb if I were Bin Laden?"

I could almost see it happening.

I thought maybe what they planned was to put together a list with so many names on it, that they'd be guaranteed to go out of their way to unnecessarily hassle at least one person per flight, thus giving the illusion to the other (voting) passengers that - by being a bunch of nosey officious dicks, the apes at the airport (the security guards on the front lines) are helping to 'win' someone's spurious 'war' on 'terror' (or at least on people with names on someone's list).

It is to laugh oneself unconscious.

That's part of it. But in feeling so "safe" with this process, those voting passengers are actually reinforcing their underlying fear about everywhere else. "Ah, I can relax. No terrorists are gonna get on THIS flight. BUT WHAT ABOUT AT THE MALL!?"

Fear sells, it's what this is all about.

There are more than 509,000 people in Wyoming? Doesn't that gigantic state only have one area code?

Oh, and he is a 17-year old fourth generation Jewish-American who has supported the war in Iraq from the beginning and will be attending the Citadel (a military academy) next year.
What an idiot.

What an idiot.

I agree. Poor kid is going to continually get a lot of trouble at the military academy.
"And who are you?"
"<insert name here>, Sir!"
"...his name is on the no-fly lists! He is a suspected terrorist! Seize him! Put him in the brig!"
*kid groans* "See you tomorrow, Sir."

Hey Nazz, was it the old poster 'The Red Arrow' who used to go on at length about Halliburton building regional concentration camp facilities all throughout the U.S. (but of course never referred to as 'concentration camps', instead as something like 'multi-purpose temporary shelter centers' or somesuch)?

I was wondering about those the other day, whether they were real or not. Thought you might recall more clearly.

FEMA camps. Yeah, they exist.