NationStates Jolt Archive

WASHINGTON, June 11, 2007 – A senior defense official expressed hope today that a provision in the stalled immigration bill that would have allowed some undocumented aliens to join the military won’t fall off the radar screen.

The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors, or DREAM, provision in the immigration bill was expected to help boost military recruiting, Bill Carr, acting deputy undersecretary of defense for military personnel policy, said today during a telephone conference with veterans’ group representatives.

While President Bush returns to Washington to help revive the stalled immigration reform package, Carr said talk is already taking place to see if at least the DREAM provision of the stalled bill can proceed.

Sources: US Department of Defense /American Forces Press Service/OccNEWS

To all the little Jose and Marias in School:
from now on, -If you want to become a Good American- your DREAM should be to kill and die in Iraq.

I always figured that illegals could join the military and then become citizens. Would solve the recruitment problem and allow them to "earn" their citizenship which seems to be important to some people.

They already use every underhanded trick in the book from implying you're not a real man if you don't join to trolling Best Buy for teenagers to improve enlistment numbers, is this really a surprise?

I respect our soldiers, but everytime I see one wandering around a Best Buy or the mall, I want to throw up.

In the end, though, if illegals want to join as a path to citizenship, let 'em, because I sure as hell won't enlist.

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

[/thread]

There have been "illegal" immigrats in the Army for years. We had a couple in my basic training unit in 2000.

hmmm "illegal" citizens fighting an "illegal" war

I wonder how they came up with this idea...

edit: oh and I must laugh again at the US military

Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

FTW!

I was gonna say the same thing...

I respect our soldiers, but everytime I see one wandering around a Best Buy or the mall, I want to throw up.

Actually, you should feel really sorry for that guy. He has to resort to that sort of thing because he has monthly quotas, and not filling them can be very detrimental to his career. Recruiting is a shit job, and the vast majority of recruiters don't choose to be them, they get a PERSGRAM in the mail one day saying they have orders to attend recruiting school. The vast majority of recruiters would be back doing whatever job they enlisted to do, not doing the unenviable job of selling the Army to kids during this ridiculous war.

Actually, you should feel really sorry for that guy. He has to resort to that sort of thing because he has monthly quotas, and not filling them can be very detrimental to his career. Recruiting is a shit job, and the vast majority of recruiters don't choose to be them, they get a PERSGRAM in the mail one day saying they have orders to attend recruiting school. The vast majority of recruiters would be back doing whatever job they enlisted to do, not doing the unenviable job of selling the Army to kids during this ridiculous war.

I know, I did door-to-door sales before. I empathize with the guy, but the fact that the military constantly resorts to it is sickening. Especially when you run into the handful that actually enjoy it.

I know, I did door-to-door sales before. I empathize with the guy, but the fact that the military constantly resorts to it is sickening. Especially when you run into the handful that actually enjoy it.

They resort to it because they're short on other options these days. Back in the late 90s (I enlisted in 99) recruiting wasn't all that hard so they didn't have to do that sort of thing. Nowadays no one wants to touch the military with a 20 foot pole, so they do what they have to.

Except, of course, for those very few individuals who utilize and enjoy bullying tactics. That they are recruiters is another sign of the sad state of the Army.

They resort to it because they're short on other options these days. Back in the late 90s (I enlisted in 99) recruiting wasn't all that hard so they didn't have to do that sort of thing. Nowadays no one wants to touch the military with a 20 foot pole, so they do what they have to.

Yeah, things are different when you might actually have to, you know, fight. All those pre-war, "see the world" commercials are coming back to bite them in the ass.

Direct Marketing, everyone hates it, but for some reason it actually works...


Except, of course, for those very few individuals who utilize and enjoy bullying tactics. That they are recruiters is another sign of the sad state of the Army.

Don't I know it...

Nothing like having two soldiers insult your masculinity in various ways in front of your girlfriend to solidify a bad opinion of the military.

That was the first time I ever wanted to punch a soldier.

Nothing like having two soldiers insult your masculinity in various ways in front of your girlfriend to solidify a bad opinion of the military.

That was the first time I ever wanted to punch a soldier.

Next time it happens ask them for the contact information for their commander. I'm sure he'd be quite interested to hear about such unprofessional behavior from his NCO's.

This isn't all that new, they just gave it a new name.

I always figured that illegals could join the military and then become citizens. Would solve the recruitment problem and allow them to "earn" their citizenship which seems to be important to some people.

Yeah, I sort of figured something like this had been in place for some time already.

In the end, though, if illegals want to join as a path to citizenship, let 'em, because I sure as hell won't enlist.

Agreed!

edit: oh and I must laugh again at the US military

Why? Do Mexicans make bad soldiers or something? :rolleyes:

I wonder how many Americans wouldn't mind joining the military of another nation to earn citizenship there?

I can think of a few I'd serve a term to move to. :p

Nothing like having two soldiers insult your masculinity in various ways in front of your girlfriend to solidify a bad opinion of the military.

That was the first time I ever wanted to punch a soldier.

If I ever lost my girlfriend because of a soldier, I'd simply take note of his name and claim to be his boyfriend, therefore ending his career.

Why? Do Mexicans make bad soldiers or something? :rolleyes:

you have to laugh at the American armies faults thy R teh n00bz!!!1

I wonder how many Americans wouldn't mind joining the military of another nation to earn citizenship there?

French foreign legion doesn't look too hard...

If I ever lost my girlfriend because of a soldier, I'd simply take note of his name and claim to be his boyfriend, therefore ending his career.

I don't think carving there initial into a tree will help much...

I don't think carving there initial into a tree will help much...

The e-mails, showing up at his barracks and pretending to be his bf, and so on, though, would. I see an attack on me as a clear attempt to destroy me, and I would stop at nothing to return the favor.

you have to laugh at the American armies faults thy R teh n00bz!!!1

I fault the government for it's idiotic foreign policy...not the military which has simply been ordered to do a job.

I'm sure your average Mexican has heard about the Iraq War, and knows that by joining the US Military he may be sent there. If he's fine with that, then I couldn't care less...it doesn't speak badly of him or the military, as far as I'm concerned.

French foreign legion doesn't look too hard...

I was thinking New Zealand...maybe Tuvalu. :p

If I ever lost my girlfriend because of a soldier, I'd simply take note of his name and claim to be his boyfriend, therefore ending his career.

Actually, I married her 2 years later. :)

He got what was coming to him, he should've realized exactly where in that mall we were standing. There was a recruitment center within earshot, and the officer there didn't take to kindly to that pair's "tactics."

I should clarify, he was saying things like "Don't you want to protect your girlfriend? Step up, be a man?" as opposed to being an outright ass. But I'm the type to be offended by that tripe. YMMV

"earn" their citizenship

what, like we earned it by being born here? the concept of citizenship as something you earn is entirely beyond me. most american citizens put more effort into taking a shit than they did becoming a citizen.

Too bad they have no allegence to America.

Foreign Mercenaries in the army, and taking over laborous jobs? Where does this sound familiar? *coughromecough*

To all the little Jose and Marias in School:
from now on, -If you want to become a Good American- your DREAM should be to kill and die in Iraq.

:rolleyes:

I see an attack on me as a clear attempt to destroy me, and I would stop at nothing to return the favor.

surely the fair return would be to screw his girlfriend:confused:

I fault the government for it's idiotic foreign policy...not the military which has simply been ordered to do a job.

American troops being noob-ish has little to do with the Iraq war :p

I'm sure your average Mexican has heard about the Iraq War, and knows that by joining the US Military he may be sent there. If he's fine with that, then I couldn't care less...it doesn't speak badly of him or the military, as far as I'm concerned.

does reek rather badly of exploitation though as does the idea of serving overseas without the right to vote (and all the other problems foreign legions have)

I was thinking New Zealand...maybe Tuvalu. :p

well you do have Israel and Spain as well :)

Actually, I married her 2 years later. :)

He got what was coming to him, he should've realized exactly where in that mall we were standing. There was a recruitment center within earshot, and the officer there didn't take to kindly to that pair's "tactics."

I should clarify, he was saying things like "Don't you want to protect your girlfriend? Step up, be a man?" as opposed to being an outright ass. But I'm the type to be offended by that tripe. YMMV

Ahhh. Well, okay then. :)

I never had a girlfriend that would balk at me for not serving or be influenced like that by an outside force. If I did have, the outside force would be dealt with as if it had made an attempt on my life.

what, like we earned it by being born here? the concept of citizenship as something you earn is entirely beyond me. most american citizens put more effort into taking a shit than they did becoming a citizen.

Some think for whatever reason that these immigrants have to prove something to be made citizens, I hardly agree but then I have a touch of common sense.

Once again proving we need immigrants so that they can do the jobs that americans don't want to do.

Before anyone has a heart attack, remember that, in times of peace, with a responsible commander in cheif, the military is a wonderful opportunity for people from underprivaleged families to receive education. The pay sucks (and that needs to be fixed), but the chance to receive an education that you might not otherwise receive is an amazing gift.

Too bad they have no allegence to America.

Foreign Mercenaries in the army, and taking over laborous jobs? Where does this sound familiar? *coughromecough*

Auxillia, ftw?

To all the little Jose and Marias in School:
from now on, -If you want to become a Good American- your DREAM should be to kill and die in Iraq.

Don't use that "Jose and Maria" stereotype, it is not pleasant.

you have to laugh at the American armies faults thy R teh n00bz!!!1

Are the higher echelons of your army mexicans? Because they are the ones that should be responsible for said faults, don't you think?

Actually, I married her 2 years later. :)

He got what was coming to him, he should've realized exactly where in that mall we were standing. There was a recruitment center within earshot, and the officer there didn't take to kindly to that pair's "tactics."

I should clarify, he was saying things like "Don't you want to protect your girlfriend? Step up, be a man?" as opposed to being an outright ass. But I'm the type to be offended by that tripe. YMMV

Well, should someone ever tries to make a move such as that on me while I am being with my boyfriend, I would start to verbally bully them badly. Something along the lines of "Yeah, you're protecting your girlfriend pretty well, being here playing the toy soldier role while she plays mom and dad with your friends, who are also better hung than you", or "Well, I know you need to pay your girlfriend with something to convince her to stay with such a useless turd, but I hope you like your pimp role, and satisfies you". Many lines come to mind, but as most spanish offensive content, it doesn't translate properly.

Before anyone has a heart attack, remember that, in times of peace, with a responsible commander in cheif, the military is a wonderful opportunity for people from underprivaleged families to receive education. The pay sucks (and that needs to be fixed), but the chance to receive an education that you might not otherwise receive is an amazing gift.

Another reason I think opening up the military to potential immigrants would be a good idea.

Have them take a limited contract (say, 2 year term), they get the benefits the military offers, job training, and a way to support their families.

Language barrier might be difficult, though.

Are the higher echelons of your army mexicans? Because they are the ones that should be responsible for said faults, don't you think?

I find it amusing how laughing at the American army struggling to find recruits labels me anti-Mexican

:rolleyes:this is just another example of the military doing anything and i do mean anything so that they don't have to enlist openly gay americans.:cool::p

Schwullunde;12773338']:rolleyes:this is just another example of the military doing anything and i do mean anything so that they don't have to enlist openly gay americans.:cool::p

I read that the military has convinced latino parents that if their children don't enlist they'll be deported. and see the other thread for republicans trying to get gays to enlist.

Another reason I think opening up the military to immigrants would be a good idea.

Have them take a limited contract (say, 2 year term), they get the benefits the military offers, job training, and a way to support their families.

Language barrier might be difficult, though.

There are already plenty of immigrants in the military. By immigrants I mean people who do not have citizenship yet.

Another reason I think opening up the military to immigrants would be a good idea.

Have them take a limited contract (say, 2 year term), they get the benefits the military offers, job training, and a way to support their families.

Language barrier might be difficult, though.

For one, there are quite a few immigrants in the military, as I said before.

Also, those who don't speak English are sent to the Presidio of Monterrey in California to learn it prior to basic training.

I find it amusing how laughing at the American army struggling to find recruits labels me anti-Mexican

Any country would have difficulty recruiting enough troops to maintain a military of almost 3 million when you take the reserves and gaurd into account. And the anti-Mexican angle is from your apparent view that if we look towards Mexicans for recruits we have hit a new low. And the only way that you would think that is if you were anti-Mexican.

There are already plenty of immigrants in the military. By immigrants I mean people who do not have citizenship yet.

Amended.

I wasn't going to take the bait and say "illegal immigrants." I've had enough of the open border/closed border pissing contest that goes on here anytime someone brings up Mexico to last a lifetime.

Suffice to say, I think that if a potential immigrant wants to join the military as a route to citizenship, I think we should let them for the reasons I posted above.

There are already plenty of immigrants in the military. Yes there is plenty of Mexican citizens fighting this US war.


Once again proving we need immigrants so that they can do the jobs that americans don't want to do.QFT

I think this is a good idea. Immigrants are already willing to risk their lives to come to America... why not let them do that in a way that helps America?

They get citizenship, we get more soldiers, everyone wins... except the poor terrorists who get shot by immigrant-soldiers.

Any country would have difficulty recruiting enough troops to maintain a military of almost 3 million when you take the reserves and gaurd into account.

which is silly then no?

And the anti-Mexican angle is from your apparent view that if we look towards Mexicans for recruits we have hit a new low. And the only way that you would think that is if you were anti-Mexican.

no I think the new low is the fact that the US is actually desperate for these new recruits not even tiny little MOD UK tries to recruit from Poland

surely the fair return would be to screw his girlfriend:confused:

And what better way to get his girlfriend to sleep with me than getting her soon-to-be former boyfriend out of his job first THEN steal his girl?

And what better way to get his girlfriend to sleep with me than getting her soon-to-be former boyfriend out of his job first THEN steal his girl?

like you need any planning to steal a soldiers girlfriend :p

like you need any planning to steal a soldiers girlfriend :p

Well, I do need some to steal his girlfriend AFTER ruining his life.

no I think the new low is the fact that the US is actually desperate for these new recruits not even tiny little MOD UK tries to recruit from Poland

I think you may have misunderstood what's going on here. It's not talking about recruiting from Mexico, it's talking about recruiting undocumented Mexicans that are already in the United States. It would be comparable if the French army were to go on a recruiting drive in the banlieus.

hey Vegan Nuts
kool thinks i will look it up. though i serriously doubt it. but we will see

I've never understood why the US doesn't operate a foreign legion.

I've never understood why the US doesn't operate a foreign legion.

Given the number of immigrants and refugees we bring in, it would probably make sense. :)

To all the little Jose and Marias in School:
from now on, -If you want to become a Good American- your DREAM should be to kill and die in Iraq.

My brother's girlfriend's son is named Jose.

Given the number of immigrants and refugees we bring in, it would probably make sense. :)

I think it is a totally fine idea. Join the US foreign legion, do six years, and we'll give you citizenship and a whole new identity. We could prolly get some UBAR awesome army lickety split that way.

Did you know that towards the end of the Roman hegemony most of the battles and military work of the Roman Empire was done by ill-trained foreign mercenaries, and that Roman citizenship was easily given away as long as the person would join the Legions. In the end the proved methods of Roman military tactics, training and discipline was lost.

Did you know that towards the end of the Roman hegemony most of the battles and military work of the Roman Empire was done by ill-trained foreign mercenaries, and that Roman citizenship was easily given away as long as the person would join the Legions. In the end the proved methods of Roman military tactics, training and discipline was lost.

That and they enlisted from the Germanic tribes that ended up sacking Rome.

That and they enlisted from the Germanic tribes that ended up sacking Rome.

Well we'd better not let too many Mexicans in the Army then - we don't want D.C. sacked by renegade ex-military banditos! :p

I got a problem with trying to get kids onboard, you should teach them to care about their country and to help out and all that good shit but it has to be a choice on their part. If it's done by draft they'll run off to Canada and become a new generation of whiney leftard bitchers and moaners and we really don't need that.

I think that any illegal immigrant who is willing to serve and defend the nation he's trying to get into ought to get an automatic citizenship because he clearly cares more about that land than the whiners (Democrats) and excuse makers (Republicans)that constitute the bulk of the population. If you're willing to put it all on the line like that then you've more than earned your ticket.

My brother's girlfriend's son is named Jose.

Papers, please.

isn't it nice we can sit here on the boards and make snide remarks about the military;) Honestly though, if it wasn't for the military I wouldn't have been able to go to college. Then again I enlisted prior to 9-11. Back when Clinton wasn't using the military. Mexicans aren't the only ones in our military some Canucks also serve..I don't think they want citizenship though...I think that service in the military should allow for citizenship if the servicemember wants it. We actually have recruitment stations in Mexico...just in case anyone cares.