NationStates Jolt Archive

This is what happens when I stay up late on a Thursday drinking bourbon and reading blogs I don't read often enough. I come across this kind of stuff. (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/06/atheism_is_what_you_do_when_yo.php#more) Here's the short version--college doesn't make people into atheists. In fact, the largest percentage of people who either decline in attending services, decline in the importance of religion, or disaffiliate from religions entirely are--wait for it--people who never go to college.

PZ thinks it's because colleges have lots of institutional groups that help students stay active, while those horrible atheist professors don't bring it up in class, and there's certainly something to that. Religion and belief certainly come up in my classes--you can't teach poetry more than a hundred years old and not deal with the subject, and I'm certainly not going to stand up in front of the class and proclaim said beliefs as stupid. It's not smart and it's not right to do that to your students--I'm teaching the poems, not proselytizing. I'm slightly subversive--I mention similar belief systems from other religions when it's appropriate, but I'm just as likely to quote scripture.

But I have a different take on it, probably because I came from a working class background and was a working class guy myself before I went to college. I think it's more a matter of time and energy. If you finished high school, but didn't go to college, you're probably busting your ass just to make ends meet. Even if you're the kind of guy, like my ex-wife's ex-brother-in-law (don't try to figure it out--you'll hurt yourself) who's fairly successful, it's because you're in something like construction, and you've spent many a day in the sun toting lumber and such and you've made it to the point where you're overseeing the jobs now. If you're working 6 10-hour-days a week, you're probably not going to church on Sunday, especially if you went out on Saturday night because that's your only chance to release some tension. I served those guys a lot of beer, and they weren't exactly atheist--it was more that they were too concerned with other stuff to be religious. There would be a time for church, and that time was later, when they'd paid off their land or their truck and didn't have to work six days a week anymore. But when that happened, then it was time to enjoy what they'd worked for, so Sundays were football and the 31-inch tv and a barbeque.

At least, that's the people I knew, and that's in part why I left my church all those years ago. It wasn't so much because I stopped believing one day; it was more because I was just tired all the time. The lack of belief came later.

I don't really know what to comment on. Atheism, or at least non-religiosity, is presumed here... especially at universities, so... uhm, I don't why I'm commenting at all. I just felt like it. Deal.

Sounds like a good explanation - the four-hour runtime of my last church's Sunday services were a bit discouraging when that alarm clock was buzzing away.

I don't really know what to comment on. Atheism, or at least non-religiosity, is presumed here... especially at universities, so... uhm, I don't why I'm commenting at all. I just felt like it. Deal.

If only all my students were like you, Fass. I had to slap one down for proselytizing in an essay a couple of weeks ago, after I'd specifically said not to do that.

I don't really know what to comment on. Atheism, or at least non-religiosity, is presumed here... especially at universities, so... uhm, I don't why I'm commenting at all. I just felt like it. Deal.

Similarly, amongst University go-ers (if not the general population), in Scotland, it's a surprise when someone under 25 is not atheist.

My take on it is: It's just like philosophy. It's hard to sit around and ponder the universe on an empty stomach, or on the job. Not to mention that most colleges, even totally secular ones, have plenty of organizations on campus that are geared towards getting you active and keeping you active, and you've got more time for it between studying and boozing than you normally would working.
Which is why people with college educations end up on Thursday nights drinking bourbon (eww), reading blogs, and posting about religion.

On the other hand, I came into this thread armed to the teeth, expecting another religious debate, and then realized that you were the OP. I'm still not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I've got a few debate-weapons I need to pawn off now. Reductio ad absurdum doesn't come cheap, you know...

I don't really know what to comment on. Atheism, or at least non-religiosity, is presumed here... especially at universities, so... uhm, I don't why I'm commenting at all. I just felt like it. Deal.

Not your most scathing post to date. Come on, damnit, work up some ire.

Which is why people with college educations end up on Thursday nights drinking bourbon (eww), reading blogs, and posting about religion.

And I'm drinking it neat, too, which makes posting more difficult than normal. Lots of backspacing. ;)

If only all my students were like you, Fass. I had to slap one down for proselytizing in an essay a couple of weeks ago, after I'd specifically said not to do that.

Bringing up religion - and even the atheist lack of such - is seen as being in very poor taste and a sign of deficient rearing. I could only pick one or two religionists in my course, and that's mostly because I saw them praying before an exam once.

Not your most scathing post to date. Come on, damnit, work up some ire.

But I'm sort of... happy... at the moment, having passed my exams with results I thought I could only dream of, and it's summer, and I have a great summer job, and I've met someone, and apart from financial woes, life is... good. So, shut the fuck up and don't you dare rain on my parade, bitch.

And I'm drinking it neat, too, which makes posting more difficult than normal. Lots of backspacing. ;)

Well at least it's not a garbled mess. Thank you for trying ;)

And you're typing pretty fast too. About a year ago I got totally trashed and decided to send an email to an old friend. It took me an hour and a half of concentrating and backspacing to churn out an email that would've normally taken me 5 minutes, tops.

Bringing up religion - and even the atheist lack of such - is seen as being in very poor taste and a sign of deficient rearing. I could only pick one or two religionists in my course, and that's mostly because I saw them praying before an exam once.That must be nice. I bring up religious stuff in class because I have to in order to do my job worth a damn, but I generally do it in the context of other ancient beliefs, just to let the atheists know I'm on their side, and to try to make the religious types think a bit.



But I'm sort of... happy... at the moment, having passed my exams with results I thought I could only dream of, and it's summer, and I have a great summer job, and I've met someone, and apart from financial woes, life is... good. So, shut the fuck up and don't you dare rain on my parade, bitch.
Good on you. Glad to hear it.

But I'm sort of... happy... at the moment, having passed my exams with results I thought I could only dream of, and it's summer, and I have a great summer job, and I've met someone, and apart from financial woes, life is... good. So, shut the fuck up and don't you dare rain on my parade, bitch.

Glad to hear it...fucker :)

*gets popcorn*

Hey, it's better then anything on TV right now.

Now, fight to the death!

On Topic: Yep. In most professions, one does not have the time or energy to wonder about religion.

Bringing up religion - and even the atheist lack of such - is seen as being in very poor taste and a sign of deficient rearing. I could only pick one or two religionists in my course, and that's mostly because I saw them praying before an exam once.
How odd...I'm confused by this. I wouldn't have thought a country that had only recently rid themselves of an official state religion would have so few religious people, especially in academic fields.

But then I am seeing things from my perspective as an American, so I suppose it's a matter of what you're familiar with.


But I'm sort of... happy... at the moment, having passed my exams with results I thought I could only dream of, and it's summer, and I have a great summer job, and I've met someone, and apart from financial woes, life is... good. So, shut the fuck up and don't you dare rain on my parade, bitch.
Okay. You are basically making a wonderful life for yourself. Fantastic.

I saw them praying before an exam once.


Alas, in my university we got a fundie catholic group (named "Comunione e Liberazione", born in the late '60s as a right-wing answer to left-wing students' protests, and now the most powerful catholic lobby in Italy).

Praying before exams? THEY PRAY ABOUT 2 HOURS A DAY! In the university. SINGING AND PLAYING GUITARS while the other students are trying to ... study. Then they procede destroying any left-wing post on the bulletin boards. They were also suspected of trying to fix the ballots in the last university elections for the students' representatives (internal inquiry isn't over yet).

Does the university do anything to stop them - or at least to limit their arrogance? NO. Many teachers are linked to CL in some way. Some others don't want to get CL upset because they fear that their friends "in alto loco" (like in the local administration) might cut some research funding if they protest.

So, the catholic fundies have a free rein here. This is perhaps the main reason because I hate them bloody fundies. I'm not against religion, albeit I'm atheist - my fiancee is catholic (not a fundie, of course). I just hate the arrogant fundie idiots, be they religious or not.

Bringing up religion - and even the atheist lack of such - is seen as being in very poor taste and a sign of deficient rearing. I could only pick one or two religionists in my course, and that's mostly because I saw them praying before an exam once.
I can see where that might be the case in matters of celebrity or public office, but just in conversation? Something seems very odd there. You wouldn't get worked up about talking about the old Viking Gods, would you? So why should discussing active religious mythology be any different?

How odd...I'm confused by this. I wouldn't have thought a country that had only recently rid themselves of an official state religion would have so few religious people, especially in academic fields.

The UK still has an official state religion, and not many people here could really be considered religious. *Shrugs*

I don't know what to say, should I be upset the fundies don't give me any time?

Yay and congratulations! Being in such a good mood that not even praying coursemates can put you off must be dandy. What about the guy you met? Or maybe you're not one to kiss and tell...




But I'm sort of... happy... at the moment, having passed my exams with results I thought I could only dream of, and it's summer, and I have a great summer job, and I've met someone, and apart from financial woes, life is... good. So, shut the fuck up and don't you dare rain on my parade, bitch.

The UK still has an official state religion, and not many people here could really be considered religious. *Shrugs*

I think there's only two reasons why: one, we have the monarchy, and two, we're too polite to remove it since it doesn't really play into politics here at all (unlike in America).

I think there's only two reasons why: one, we have the monarchy, and two, we're too polite to remove it since it doesn't really play into politics here at all (unlike in America).

And it means we can keep an eye on them.
They do have places in the Lords, though. I reckon they should be got rid of, but ho-hum.

Out of all my years in school the only religion brought up in a course was by a religious teachers

The non religious ones had better things to do, like talk about course material

Bringing up religion - and even the atheist lack of such - is seen as being in very poor taste and a sign of deficient rearing. I could only pick one or two religionists in my course, and that's mostly because I saw them praying before an exam once.



But I'm sort of... happy... at the moment, having passed my exams with results I thought I could only dream of, and it's summer, and I have a great summer job, and I've met someone, and apart from financial woes, life is... good. So, shut the fuck up and don't you dare rain on my parade, bitch.

Always thought you really needed to get laid. Good for you.

This is what happens when I stay up late on a Thursday drinking bourbon and reading blogs I don't read often enough. I come across this kind of stuff. (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/06/atheism_is_what_you_do_when_yo.php#more) Here's the short version--college doesn't make people into atheists. In fact, the largest percentage of people who either decline in attending services, decline in the importance of religion, or disaffiliate from religions entirely are--wait for it--people who never go to college.

PZ thinks it's because colleges have lots of institutional groups that help students stay active, while those horrible atheist professors don't bring it up in class, and there's certainly something to that. Religion and belief certainly come up in my classes--you can't teach poetry more than a hundred years old and not deal with the subject, and I'm certainly not going to stand up in front of the class and proclaim said beliefs as stupid. It's not smart and it's not right to do that to your students--I'm teaching the poems, not proselytizing. I'm slightly subversive--I mention similar belief systems from other religions when it's appropriate, but I'm just as likely to quote scripture.

But I have a different take on it, probably because I came from a working class background and was a working class guy myself before I went to college. I think it's more a matter of time and energy. If you finished high school, but didn't go to college, you're probably busting your ass just to make ends meet. Even if you're the kind of guy, like my ex-wife's ex-brother-in-law (don't try to figure it out--you'll hurt yourself) who's fairly successful, it's because you're in something like construction, and you've spent many a day in the sun toting lumber and such and you've made it to the point where you're overseeing the jobs now. If you're working 6 10-hour-days a week, you're probably not going to church on Sunday, especially if you went out on Saturday night because that's your only chance to release some tension. I served those guys a lot of beer, and they weren't exactly atheist--it was more that they were too concerned with other stuff to be religious. There would be a time for church, and that time was later, when they'd paid off their land or their truck and didn't have to work six days a week anymore. But when that happened, then it was time to enjoy what they'd worked for, so Sundays were football and the 31-inch tv and a barbeque.

At least, that's the people I knew, and that's in part why I left my church all those years ago. It wasn't so much because I stopped believing one day; it was more because I was just tired all the time. The lack of belief came later.

My parents were what I call "lukewarm Christmas and Easter Christians" - that is, they only went for appearances, and only on the major holidays - otherwise they didn't believe it.

I was pretty much an atheist all through high school and college.

I didn't acquire religious belief until I was an adult. I've met a lot of people with a similar pattern.

I've also seen the opposite - people who had religion crammed down their throats by their parents, who became atheists as soon as they left home.

And I've seen everything in between.

If college consistently made people atheists, then there wouldn't be any of those college religious groups.

The UK still has an official state religion, and not many people here could really be considered religious. *Shrugs*

I think only England does, iirc the UK as a whole and the other countries have no established church.

Hmm... That is interesting, if true. I guess it is a bit of a stereotype-breaker. Seeing as though atheists are more intelligent in general than religious people (source (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-thinkingchristians.htm)) one might assume they would be more likely to attend university. Certainly something to think about.

Out of all my years in school the only religion brought up in a course was by a religious teachers

The non religious ones had better things to do, like talk about course material

And yet to hear the fundies tell it, every class in a college has a section on "atheism indoctrination" and students must struggle to keep their faith. I heard the speech more than once myself when I started--and it didn't do one bit of good. I came out of college fairly atheist.

This is what happens when I stay up late on a Thursday drinking bourbon and reading blogs I don't read often enough. I come across this kind of stuff. (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/06/atheism_is_what_you_do_when_yo.php#more) Here's the short version--college doesn't make people into atheists. In fact, the largest percentage of people who either decline in attending services, decline in the importance of religion, or disaffiliate from religions entirely are--wait for it--people who never go to college.

PZ thinks it's because colleges have lots of institutional groups that help students stay active, while those horrible atheist professors don't bring it up in class, and there's certainly something to that. Religion and belief certainly come up in my classes--you can't teach poetry more than a hundred years old and not deal with the subject, and I'm certainly not going to stand up in front of the class and proclaim said beliefs as stupid. It's not smart and it's not right to do that to your students--I'm teaching the poems, not proselytizing. I'm slightly subversive--I mention similar belief systems from other religions when it's appropriate, but I'm just as likely to quote scripture.

But I have a different take on it, probably because I came from a working class background and was a working class guy myself before I went to college. I think it's more a matter of time and energy. If you finished high school, but didn't go to college, you're probably busting your ass just to make ends meet. Even if you're the kind of guy, like my ex-wife's ex-brother-in-law (don't try to figure it out--you'll hurt yourself) who's fairly successful, it's because you're in something like construction, and you've spent many a day in the sun toting lumber and such and you've made it to the point where you're overseeing the jobs now. If you're working 6 10-hour-days a week, you're probably not going to church on Sunday, especially if you went out on Saturday night because that's your only chance to release some tension. I served those guys a lot of beer, and they weren't exactly atheist--it was more that they were too concerned with other stuff to be religious. There would be a time for church, and that time was later, when they'd paid off their land or their truck and didn't have to work six days a week anymore. But when that happened, then it was time to enjoy what they'd worked for, so Sundays were football and the 31-inch tv and a barbeque.

At least, that's the people I knew, and that's in part why I left my church all those years ago. It wasn't so much because I stopped believing one day; it was more because I was just tired all the time. The lack of belief came later.

After what I've been through in the past month, I can't believe in God. As far as I'm concerned, God is dead.

And yet to hear the fundies tell it, every class in a college has a section on "atheism indoctrination" and students must struggle to keep their faith. I heard the speech more than once myself when I started--and it didn't do one bit of good. I came out of college fairly atheist.

Funny, I'm a "fundie" and I don't see college that way.

I do wonder if those numbers are skewed by religious colleges. Even the ones that are merely affiliated in name, such as several Catholic schools, do maintain a religious presence of some sort. However, with the exception of Oral Roberts University and places like that, I think most colleges do a good job accomodating all faiths represented in their student bodies.

Funny, I'm a "fundie" and I don't see college that way.

I thought that other fundamentalists would have that viewpoint before I went to college, but after four years I can say that many are so worried about students that they've taken to preaching on the sidewalks. Only in spring and fall when it's still warm, of course, you could walk through certain places on campus and hear all about how the faculty are telling lies to the students about evolution and creation, or convincing them that they don't need God. To listen to those guys (never a female preacher on the sidewalks, for some reason), you'd think college was full of atheist professors from Jack Chick pamphlets trying to turn good Christian students away from God. Of course, those same preachers also had the idea that the average college student lived a hedonistic lifestyle full of alcohol, sex, and drugs, but they represent the kind of fundamentalists that Nazz is talking about. They never actually went into a classroom and listened to lectures or asked professors what they taught because they were so certain that college was an evil influence that they had to come and preach to the "lost sheep" (students) in between classes.

Funny, I'm a "fundie" and I don't see college that way.

You're also about as trustworthy as the current administration.

I do wonder if those numbers are skewed by religious colleges. Even the ones that are merely affiliated in name, such as several Catholic schools, do maintain a religious presence of some sort. However, with the exception of Oral Roberts University and places like that, I think most colleges do a good job accomodating all faiths represented in their student bodies.

I don't think so. My university has numerous faith based student groups, many with offices in the main student area for high visibility. There are regularly sponsored activities for various religions--even the Jehovah's Witnesses set up a table in the breezeway most days during the regular semester. And this is a state university in a not particularly religious part of the country. I'm not complaining about this, by the way--I think religion is silly, but I'm not out to impose my feelings on the matter on others. The closest I come to that is when students try to preach in their essays on religious poetry--that's a no-no.

How odd...I'm confused by this. I wouldn't have thought a country that had only recently rid themselves of an official state religion would have so few religious people, especially in academic fields.

Secularism has been a central "value" in this country for most of the 20th century, with a preponderance in the last 60 years. The reasons we even had the state church left for so long was basically that we had had it for 500 years and thus it took time to agree what the reform would be like, and the fact that the "state church" didn't actually get involved in government policy - it was very much a "the government controls the church" type of thing that for the non-religious/seculars (most people here, that is) didn't really matter so it never became all that of an issue, and for the religious started being a nuisance as the church was legally a public authority and as such had all sorts of laws and regulations that the "free" congregations weren't affected by. So, the split was a meandering sort of affairs that in the end wasn't all that important to one side, and the other saw benefits from it. It was quite uneventful, really. Laws were passed and one day the state church was no more. I noticed nothing different in my life, and I doubt most others did either.

But then I am seeing things from my perspective as an American, so I suppose it's a matter of what you're familiar with.

Western Europe, with a few exceptions, tends to be quite secular.

Alas, in my university we got a fundie catholic group

Well, you do live in Italy, and the Vatican has been shockingly interventionist lately.

I can see where that might be the case in matters of celebrity or public office, but just in conversation?

It's seen as a very private matter that most conversations aren't going to touch upon (I have close friends that I've never talked religion with, since it's completely irrelevant, but then again most of my friends are secular even if they sort of have a religion in the sense of "I'd like to think there's something more, but that's got nothing to do with anyone else"), and religious "arguments" for anything outside the theological department are simply not going to fly or even be entertained (they're a sure-fire way of making people think you're a dolt) so they're simply not presented, because they are, again, irrelevant.

Something seems very odd there. You wouldn't get worked up about talking about the old Viking Gods, would you? So why should discussing active religious mythology be any different?

There is a difference between matter-of-factly discussing Balder's fate, or the hubris-centred themes in Greek mythology in an intellectual fashion as part of a discussion that deals with cultural influences during the ages or some such, and bringing up one's personal, very private religious convictions as a topic.


Yay and congratulations! Being in such a good mood that not even praying coursemates can put you off must be dandy. What about the guy you met? Or maybe you're not one to kiss and tell...


Hah, nä, det känns inte särskilt koscher (ursäkta vitsen) att vädra hans detaljer här, men låt duga säga att han är en trevlig, snygg prick med nördtendenser som gör att vi kan snacka om saker jag vanligtivis inte kan snacka med andra om, och att vårt "förhållande" är extremt nytt och efter överrenskommelse långsamt trevande... men det hjälper förstås inte mot att jag ändå får det där fjortisaktiga pirret i magen när jag tänker på honom.

Always thought you really needed to get laid. Good for you.

Not to be blunt or vulgar, but getting laid is not that difficult at all when you're a gay man. Getting laid is easy, getting beyond that is the tricky bit.

Imagine if straight women wanted to have sex as much as straight men do.

I thought that other fundamentalists would have that viewpoint before I went to college, but after four years I can say that many are so worried about students that they've taken to preaching on the sidewalks. Only in spring and fall when it's still warm, of course, you could walk through certain places on campus and hear all about how the faculty are telling lies to the students about evolution and creation, or convincing them that they don't need God. To listen to those guys (never a female preacher on the sidewalks, for some reason), you'd think college was full of atheist professors from Jack Chick pamphlets trying to turn good Christian students away from God. Of course, those same preachers also had the idea that the average college student lived a hedonistic lifestyle full of alcohol, sex, and drugs, but they represent the kind of fundamentalists that Nazz is talking about. They never actually went into a classroom and listened to lectures or asked professors what they taught because they were so certain that college was an evil influence that they had to come and preach to the "lost sheep" (students) in between classes.


We had a group of militant pro-lifers that would go on tour every year that were like that. My last year at college I decided enough was enough, made up a huge sign that said "White Power," and made a point to always stand next to the ringleader.

I spent the next several days apologizing and explaining myself, but it was worth it.

I don't know about how people generally react, but I can say that I don't personally know any atheists who aren't college-educated. Then again, I don't personally know many atheists, so that isn't a good measure. =)

I had both a crisis and a strengthening of faith due to my college education. The first religion course I took startled me and, along with experiences in high school that had already begun to make me question, seemed to push me away from religion. I remained interested, however, and the 2nd and 3rd classes had me reevaluating my initial reaction to the 1st class. My reaction wasn't really a problem with religion itself, but it made me realize that no single religion had all the answers - and that made me wonder what the point was at all. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that religion had to be a personal journey, not one in which I could expect someone else to show me where to go.

Really, college has actually led me to believe in a God; not one of the organized religions, but Gods nonetheless. If anything, the increased responsibility for my own actions and decisions played a huge role in my rediscovered faith; it is a mature faith, really, not one imposed on me by parents or others, so that may have a role in why I am far more accommodating to it than if I were born and raised in it.

Well, my brother became a devout Catholic during University- he met some friends who were part of the Catholic group at York University and I believe he got caught up in their zeal and became devout because of it (he also said he had a calling during Mass, and I believe him). I think University is where you develop anything you've held previously, be it atheism, religiosity, liberalism, conservatism, etc. because at University you're required to think. It's in University where I decided I was a non-denominational Christian- I determined to myself that I fundamentally disagreed with the institutions (in particular Catholicism, which I was brought up as) but I still believed in God and Jesus simply because I think the message is still relevant but humans have screwed it up- humans have turned Christ's Words into a hardline "rules"-based doctrine when they're missing the point, because Jesus was never about "rules" but about being "good" in your life- and that doesn't necessarily have to be stringent on a strict set of rules. Before University I was certain I wasn't Catholic, but I wasn't sure where in the Faith I was- and now I know.

I am a bit surprised that atheists tend to be more the "straight to work" people than college-educated, because from my understanding, it's the poor that gravitate towards religion seeing as how they have "nothing else"; but I suppose it makes sense, given that a lot of atheists are those who "gave up" on religion and it's easy to give up on religion if you're destitute. However, I do believe atheism arises more because of rearing conditions than anything else- if you've got parents, schooling (or both) that's highly religious and is simply insistent on stressing "the rules of the religion" then you're more likely to become atheist because of a natural human tendency to question. I can say that, after 14½ years of Catholic "indoctrination" (my school, especially my principal was a hardline Catholic so insistent that every one us were little Devils that had to be corrected. One example- the dress code came to ban everything sleeveless because girls were wearing too many low-cut blouses, not realizing that many of those blouses are sleeved), I was no longer a devout Catholic. So fundamentalists are wrong to think that "correcting us" is the answer, because they just turn everyone away.

I'm an atheist now, as a rising sophomore in high school. Does this mean I'll become religious in college, or what?

Sorry... my brain is tired right now and I dont' htink i'm making any sense. I'll post later when my brain is more alert.

True devotion, and intellectualization of spirituality and belief are tasks which consume time and energy, time and energy that college grads tend to have far more of, as compared to those without degrees.

At my college, there were plenty of religious clubs-- a Catholic group, a Jewish group, an Islamic group...

There were courses such as The Bible as Literature to sample as well. (Did I ever get into arguments in that one!)

The truth of the matter is that college, above all else, introduces you to new ideas and new ways of thinking. I'd be shocked if people who never really gave their belief system much thought DIDN'T start comparing, and reevaluating what they perhaps had accepted without critical thought before.

Do some people grow stronger in faith? Absolutely.
Do some people modify their outlook? Absolutely.
Do some people completely reject what they had accepted before? Absolutely.

It's a process called growing up, and everyone does it differently. :)

And yeah... unless your coursework involves interpreting a holy text or comparative religions or discussing the culture of a time period/region.... bringing religion into the discussion except as a literary allusion is generally not appropriate.

I'm an atheist now, as a rising sophomore in high school. Does this mean I'll become religious in college, or what?

I have, but that's no guarantee you'll turn out the same way.

I don't really know what to comment on. Atheism, or at least non-religiosity, is presumed here... especially at universities, so... uhm, I don't why I'm commenting at all. I just felt like it. Deal.

I'd like to comment on your absence from MSN. Deal.

I'd like to comment on your absence from MSN. Deal.

You shall see that my coping strategy is one of continued desertion.

Well, in my case, I am a 'religionist' (specifically, Jewish), and I intend to get involved in religious activities at college. And by 'get involved' I mean 'found a Jewish student organization'. I already have an idea for an event on Yom Kippur - do a joint fast-breaking with the Muslim Student Union.

However, Jews have a long tradition of NOT evangelizing. We really only target other Jews. And we use positive incentments, ie food. Basically, show up at a Jewish event, and unless it is a fast day, we will feed you. You do not have a choice in the matter.

After what I've been through in the past month, I can't believe in God. As far as I'm concerned, God is dead.

:(
<3 & huggles.
Hope things turn out better soon.

After what I've been through in the past month, I can't believe in God. As far as I'm concerned, God is dead.

What happened?

Well, in my case, I am a 'religionist' (specifically, Jewish), and I intend to get involved in religious activities at college. And by 'get involved' I mean 'found a Jewish student organization'. I already have an idea for an event on Yom Kippur - do a joint fast-breaking with the Muslim Student Union.

However, Jews have a long tradition of NOT evangelizing. We really only target other Jews. And we use positive incentments, ie food. Basically, show up at a Jewish event, and unless it is a fast day, we will feed you. You do not have a choice in the matter.

Is the food only open to Jews? This is making me jealous... :(