NationStates Jolt Archive

it was the 3bil joooz...

As you all know, Hamas and Fatah are killing each other with some vigor, and everyone can see it.

We have this interesting story from the Middle East:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070613/ts_afp/mideastgaza

GAZA CITY (AFP) - A major Fatah post was levelled by a huge blast in southern Gaza on Wednesday as Hamas pushed an offensive against its rival amid warnings the vicious battles could lead to a Gaza collapse.


Hmmm... I wonder who could have blown up Fatah? Who is fighting Fatah right now, throwing people from office buildings and shooting people in hospital beds?

The headquarters of the pro-Fatah preventive security force in Khan Yunis was “totally destroyed” after a bomb exploded in a tunnel underneath, said the chief of the force Yussef Eissa, blaming Hamas for the attack.

Once again, who in this fight would want to blow up Fatah by placing a bomb in a tunnel under the security headquarters (and not by dropping a bomb from an airplane)?


At least three people were killed, medics said. Hamas denied that it placed explosives in a tunnel.

Ah, I see. It must have been the 3bil joooz.

Yay obfuscation and ignoring reality, secterian groups, families and clans not aligned to either side, and chaos!

In other words... What's your point?

well considering israeli forces have already involved themselves in the conflict between fatah and hamas it's not such a wild suggestion. not saying it's true, just it's not worthy of instant dismissal.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17542561.htm

Yay obfuscation and ignoring reality, secterian groups, families and clans not aligned to either side, and chaos!

In other words... What's your point?

Hamas and Fatah have a long history of denying such things, even when everyone knows they did it.

It's just funny to see them do it to each other, rather than to the Israelis.

It's all they know how to do.:D

Hamas and Fatah have a long history of denying such things, even when everyone knows they did it.

It's just funny to see them do it to each other, rather than to the Israelis.

It's all they know how to do.:D

Finally, after being here for 3 years, someone who shares a similar viewpoint on the Palestinians!

Hamas and Fatah have a long history of denying such things, even when everyone knows they did it.

It's just funny to see them do it to each other, rather than to the Israelis.

It's all they know how to do.:D

If they were only killing other millitants then it might be funny. As it is, civilians are being caught in the crossfire, homes are being destroyed, and hospitals are being forced to close because of the violence. Forgive me if I don't laugh.

If they were only killing other millitants then it might be funny. As it is, civilians are being caught in the crossfire, homes are being destroyed, and hospitals are being forced to close because of the violence. Forgive me if I don't laugh.

Those civilians elected those armed clowns.

I don't feel sorry for the civilians, either.

Those civilians elected those armed clowns.

I don't feel sorry for the civilians, either.

No because that would require compassion, which I've never seen you display the tiniest bit of.

Those civilians elected those armed clowns.

I don't feel sorry for the civilians, either.

I guess then you didn't feel sorry for the people who died in those towers on 11/9. After all, they did elect the governments whose blowback 11/9 was...

No because that would require compassion, which I've never seen you display the tiniest bit of.

I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...


you make me laugh...

I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...

The bullshitometer went off the charts right there. I know at least one Palestinian who was raised to think killing was wrong. Thus your "no exception" is yet another lie, like the one you told about Christians.

you make me laugh...

No, you make us laugh.

I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...


you make me laugh...
without exception eh? go prove that and you might have a point. in fact i would venture to suggest that the ones being taught to kill civilians to achieve political goals are the exceptions.

The bullshitometer went off the charts right there. I know at least one Palestinian who was raised to think killing was wrong. Thus your "no exception" is yet another lie, like the one you told about Christians.



No, you make us laugh.

Maybe you should see their schoolbooks. Their videotapes for children.

It's unavoidable from the official schools there. Maybe the parents of the child you mention were different, but they sent their kid to school, and he watched the local TV.

Those civilians elected those armed clowns.

I don't feel sorry for the civilians, either.

I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...

you make me laugh...


"an entire people"? "with no exception"?
ethnicity pre-defines ideology?
bigoted much?

I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...


you make me laugh...



You aren't supposed to do anything. You can throw your hate and misguided blame around all you want. You find it funny that innocent people are dying at the hands of radical militants. At least someone can gain some enjoyment out of this tragedy. You are such a good Christian. Praise Jesus!

Maybe you should see their schoolbooks. Their videotapes for children.

And, maybe you should stop lying? The few (and they are few) examples of such you can produce - like the rest of the Youtube idiots - are the exception. I know several Palestinians who were appalled to see those videos and would never let their children view anything of the sort. Actually, every Palestinian I know... So, stop with the lies, already.

It's unavoidable from the official schools there. Maybe the parents of the child you mention were different, but they sent their kid to school, and he watched the local TV.

Oh, I guess you just can't stop inventing untruths.

I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...


you make me laugh...

If they were really taught that since childhood then that's all the more reason to feel compassion for them: they've been brainwashed and never had a choice.

And, maybe you should stop lying? The few (and they are few) examples of such you can produce - like the rest of the Youtube idiots - are the exception. I know several Palestinians who were appalled to see those videos and would never let their children view anything of the sort. Actually, every Palestinian I know... So, stop with the lies, already.



Oh, I guess you just can't stop inventing untruths.

You and your anecdotes, vs. me and every textbook the Palestinians have made and used to spread hate. The recent "Mickey Mouse Suicide Bomber" video their school system and TV stations pushed.

If they were really taught that since childhood then that's all the more reason to feel compassion for them: they've been brainwashed and never had a choice.

Exactly.

You and your anecdotes, vs. me and every textbook the Palestinians have made and used to spread hate. The recent "Mickey Mouse Suicide Bomber" video their school system and TV stations pushed.

oh dear...
night all

You and your anecdotes, vs. me and every textbook the Palestinians have made and used to spread hate. The recent "Mickey Mouse Suicide Bomber" video their school system and TV stations pushed.

I smell Thunderdome! :D

You and your anecdotes, vs. me and every textbook the Palestinians have made and used to spread hate. The recent "Mickey Mouse Suicide Bomber" video their school system and TV stations pushed.

do you have one of these text books to quote from? you are aware also that that mickey mouse thing was subtitled by an extremely partisan organisation don't you? so unless you speak their language you are trusting a translation that could well have been designed to make them look bad.

You and your anecdotes,

Which prove your absolute lies wrong, yes.

vs. me and every textbook the Palestinians have made and used to spread hate.

And those textbooks - again the exception - are not anecdotes?

The recent "Mickey Mouse Suicide Bomber" video their school system and TV stations pushed.

Oh, look, another anecdote! And it also doesn't in the least bit corroborate your lies of "no exceptions" and "entire people".

You really do make me laugh. Out loud, actually.

do you have one of these text books to quote from? you are aware also that that mickey mouse thing was subtitled by an extremely partisan organisation don't you? so unless you speak their language you are trusting a translation that could well have been designed to make them look bad.

I speak Arabic. The translation is 100% correct. If it weren't, someone would have pointed that out by now.

Yes, I have several of the textbooks. Some from as recent as 2004.

Hamas and Fatah have a long history of denying such things, even when everyone knows they did it.

It's just funny to see them do it to each other, rather than to the Israelis.

It's all they know how to do.:D
Not really. Quite the opposite. They actually take credit gladly. In some cases, they take credit for things they haven't done.

Are you the one who haven't ever been to or heard of the middle east?
"an entire people"? "with no exception"?
ethnicity pre-defines ideology?
bigoted much?
Yes, yes he is. No surprise from someone who advocates genocide of all muslims though, is it?
I'm supposed to show compassion for an entire people, who, with no exception, are taught since childhood that the one and only way to achieve political goals is to kill civilians (men, women, and children) and blow things up and riddle people with machinegun bullets in their hospital beds...


you make me laugh...
No exception eh?

You make me sick. But that's ok. I've gotten used to it :)
The recent "Mickey Mouse Suicide Bomber" video their school system and TV stations pushed.
...which was condemned by the palestinians and forced off the air - by the palestinians?

You and your anecdotes, vs. me and every textbook the Palestinians have made and used to spread hate.

His anecdote alone disproves your "without exception" statement.

And your "every textbook" phrase is obviously loaded with bullshit. Especially as you yourself only have "several" textbooks. Ya know, I have "several" textbooks from American education systems. Obviously, I'm an expert on defining what each and every textbook in the US says. I'm that good, just like you.

RO, why do you even bother to try justifying your hatred? Just hate. Be proud of your hate. It's what makes you ... what... you are.

RO, why do you even bother to try justifying your hatred? Just hate. Be proud of your hate. It's what makes you ... what... you are.

That and chronic halitosis. :)

His anecdote alone disproves your "without exception" statement.

And your "every textbook" phrase is obviously loaded with bullshit. Especially as you yourself only have "several" textbooks. Ya know, I have "several" textbooks from American education systems. Obviously, I'm an expert on defining what each and every textbook in the US says. I'm that good, just like you.

RO, why do you even bother to try justifying your hatred? Just hate. Be proud of your hate. It's what makes you ... what... you are.

It's acknowledged by the Palestinians themselves that they teach their kids to kill Jews.

Anecdotes, especially when claimed by someone who isn't a Palestinian, are crap.

I don't have to hate them - they seem pretty good at throwing each other off of office buildings, blowing each other up, and killing people in hospital beds, and dragging fathers out of houses and shooting them in front of their wives and children. All in the last few days.

I just don't have to sympathize with them.

That and chronic halitosis. :)

...well there's nothing wrong with that.

I speak Arabic. The translation is 100% correct. If it weren't, someone would have pointed that out by now.

Yes, I have several of the textbooks. Some from as recent as 2004.

It's been pointed out several times in several places that it was mistranslated... :rolleyes:

Here's one: http://www.factsontheground.co.uk/?p=120

some examples of what was really said by the child vs the translation:

child: I’m going to draw a picture.
mistranslation: I will shoot

child: We are going to resist.
mistranslation: We want to fight.

child: The Jews will shoot us.
mistranslation:We will annihilate the Jews.

...well there's nothing wrong with that.

Damn swiss people!

*Shakes fist at swiss people*

That and chronic halitosis. :)

wrong - he just needs to shove a mint up his ass when he talks out of it.

wrong - he just needs to shove a mint up his ass when he talks out of it.

Ah, so I'm talking out of my ass when I say that Palestinians see armed struggle as the ONLY means of achieving their political goals.

As proof, I offer the current power struggle between Hamas and Fatah.

I couldn't have thought up something more heinous myself.

Ah, so I'm talking out of my ass when I say that Palestinians see armed struggle as the ONLY means of achieving their political goals.
Yes.

I present to you the proof that you're wrong.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/palestine/images/erekat1.jpg

Hamas and Fatah have a long history of denying such things, even when everyone knows they did it.

It's just funny to see them do it to each other, rather than to the Israelis.

It's all they know how to do.:D


It must be great to keep in touch with your inner teenage troll. It must certainly be a great comfort when you turn tail at the sight of anything resembling a hard question and run for cover.

Yes.

I present to you the proof that you're wrong.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/palestine/images/erekat1.jpg

See my signature for your answer. Erekat is an irrelevancy in the larger picture of Palestinian politics.

Yes, when you speak of all Palestinians as a hive mind that only see one way of dealing with things.

There are groups in Palestine that are dedicated to peaceful resolutions. There are politicians in Palestine that want to bring peace through negotiations.

And are you now claiming that you didn't come up with an idea of a virus that would wipe out Arabs? Thats about as heinous as it gets.

I also recall you saying that you like killign people ad you joined the armed forces so that you could do it legally.

You are a monster in my eyes.

See the Palestinians.

See them kill each other.

See them throw unarmed men from the tops of office buildings.

See them shoot a wounded man in the hospital 41 times with an AK at close range (that means they reloaded)

See them shoot a man as many times or more in front of his wife and children in the street.

See them blow up each other.

Do you see me doing this? No!

They are doing it to themselves.

Ah, so I'm talking out of my ass when I say that Palestinians see armed struggle as the ONLY means of achieving their political goals.

As proof, I offer the current power struggle between Hamas and Fatah.

I couldn't have thought up something more heinous myself.

Yes, when you speak of all Palestinians as a hive mind that only see one way of dealing with things.

There are groups in Palestine that are dedicated to peaceful resolutions. There are politicians in Palestine that want to bring peace through negotiations.

And are you now claiming that you didn't come up with an idea of a virus that would wipe out Arabs? Thats about as heinous as it gets.

I also recall you saying that you like killing people ad you joined the armed forces so that you could do it legally.

You are a monster in my eyes.

Ah, so I'm talking out of my ass when I say that Palestinians see armed struggle as the ONLY means of achieving their political goals..

Indeed you are, as well as oversimplifying. Tell me, why do you think they (Hamas and elements of Fatah) don't have faith in say.....UN sanctions...?



As proof, I offer the current power struggle between Hamas and Fatah.
.

And those are the only two Palestinian factions?

By the way - Isn't it true that the Americans wanted Abbas to take armed action against Hamas before now, even though they are elected etc, and that they have provided funds, arms and training for that purpose?

See my signature for your answer. Erekat is an irrelevancy in the larger picture of Palestinian politics.

Ah. So:

"Palestinians see armed struggle as the ONLY means of achieving their political goals."

"No, see, at least some don't."

"Well, the ones who don't are irrelevant. So I'm right - Palestinians [except the irrelevant ones who believe in negotiations] see armed struggle as the ONLY means of achieving their political goals."

You do have a clever way of making yourself right by changing the goal posts, don't you ;)

And are you now claiming that you didn't come up with an idea of a virus that would wipe out Arabs? Thats about as heinous as it gets.
Muslims, not arabs, wasn't it?

See the Palestinians.

See them kill each other.

See them throw unarmed men from the tops of office buildings.

See them shoot a wounded man in the hospital 41 times with an AK at close range (that means they reloaded)

See them shoot a man as many times or more in front of his wife and children in the street.

See them blow up each other.

Do you see me doing this? No!

They are doing it to themselves.


I see attrocities happening all over the globe. My own country is full of wife beaters, child molesters, murderers, rapists and politicians. US Americans are doing this to each other!!!! We have so many low lifes in our country that we have the highest incarceration rate of anyone. That doesn't make ALL US Americans low lives and culpable for all bad things that happen within our borders. That belongs only to the people who do such things.

Muslims, not arabs, wasn't it?

mmm perhaps you are right.

By the way - Isn't it true that the Americans wanted Abbas to take armed action against Hamas before now, even though they are elected etc, and that they have provided funds, arms and training for that purpose?

Ah, so that explains why Hamas shot a man in front of his wife and kids in the street over 40 times, and why Hamas shot a man 41 times in his hospital bed.

I see. That explains why Hamas is so vitriolic and violent. :rolleyes:

Ah, so that explains why Hamas shot a man in front of his wife and kids in the street over 40 times, and why Hamas shot a man 41 times in his hospital bed.

I see. That explains why Hamas is so vitriolic and violent. :rolleyes:

And what has that got to do with the questions I asked?

Why do you think they (Hamas and elements of Fatah) don't have faith in say.....UN sanctions...?

Are Hamas and Fatah the only two Palestinian factions?

Isn't it true that the Americans wanted Abbas to take armed action against Hamas before now, even though they are elected etc, and that they have provided funds, arms and training for that purpose?

"an entire people"? "with no exception"?
ethnicity pre-defines ideology?
bigoted much?

Ain't that the truth.

Ah, so that explains why Hamas shot a man in front of his wife and kids in the street over 40 times, and why Hamas shot a man 41 times in his hospital bed.
Your fake outrage at this confuses me...

Fatah = :mad:


Hamas = :upyours:

I WILL show compassion for the Palestinians. Even if they are taught to hate the Jews, it isn't their fault, and I doubt most of them believe it anyway.

That said, I hope that this conflict ends soon with a decisive Fatah victory. With Hamas out of the way, we have a chance for peace.

I WILL show compassion for the Palestinians. Even if they are taught to hate the Jews, it isn't their fault, and I doubt most of them believe it anyway.

That said, I hope that this conflict ends soon with a decisive Fatah victory. With Hamas out of the way, we have a chance for peace.
...if Israel steps up to the plate, along with the rest of the international community.

...if Israel steps up to the plate, along with the rest of the international community.

Hamas is winning the fight.

I wouldn't care to lay odds on peace breaking out.

Hamas is winning the fight.

I wouldn't care to lay odds on peace breaking out.

So no need to even pretend that Israel would step up to the plate should Hamas not destroy Fatah, that's what you're saying now?

So no need to even pretend that Israel would step up to the plate should Hamas not destroy Fatah, that's what you're saying now?

If Hamas wins (and I'm laying odds that they will), they will seize complete control of the PA, such as it is.

Israel probably will not go in. They will probably not negotiate. The embargo will continue, and the people in Gaza will be reduced even further in their misery.

Since the majority don't have the means to overthrow Hamas, and Hamas will have the weapons to control the population, this could go on for as long as the Cuban embargo did.

So no need to even pretend that Israel would step up to the plate should Hamas not destroy Fatah, that's what you're saying now?

If Fatah wins, and Hamas is destroyed, you could see Israel stepping up to the plate.

Otherwise, Hamas WILL destroy Fatah, and that will be the end of it. No pretense needed.

If Hamas wins (and I'm laying odds that they will), they will seize complete control of the PA, such as it is.

Israel probably will not go in. They will probably not negotiate. The embargo will continue, and the people in Gaza will be reduced even further in their misery.

Since the majority don't have the means to overthrow Hamas, and Hamas will have the weapons to control the population, this could go on for as long as the Cuban embargo did.
So no need to even pretend that Israel would step up to the plate should Hamas not destroy Fatah, that's what you're saying now?

Israel probably will not go in. They will probably not negotiate. The embargo will continue, and the people in Gaza will be reduced even further in their misery..

So no change there then, either way.

Since the majority don't have the means to overthrow Hamas, and Hamas will have the weapons to control the population, this could go on for as long as the Cuban embargo did.


"the majority"...like the majority that voted for them so they'd be in control?

If Fatah wins, and Hamas is destroyed, you could see Israel stepping up to the plate.

Operative word is indeed "could". I wouldn't bet on it, though it's not impossible.

It's a conflict. Of course rival protagonists will lie, and frankly, I'd be terribly disappointed if they didn't.