NationStates Jolt Archive

While I'm in favor of relaxing citizenship requirements so that more people can come into the US legally (and in turn, pay taxes, get benefits, work jobs), what about some other cases?

Malta springs to mind. It's a tiny place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6746013.stm

The smallest country in the EU, Malta has received at least 3,500 migrants over the past two years.

That's a lot, for a place that's as small as Malta.

Honestly, the other EU countries should be required to take any further immigrants that Malta has to pick up (they've recently refused to rescue 24 people clinging to a fishing net at sea). But, it appears there's no agreement, and the other EU countries seem to be saying Malta did something wrong by not picking them up.

I see - we should force Malta to take refugees who manage to float or swim that far, until the place is packed with refugees stacked like cordwood from one end of the island to the other.

What do you see as a viable solution? Having the Maltese immediately send them back to Libya? Having the rest of the EU agree to take any further immigrants? Any ideas?

Well its a tough question to answer (since both sides are entrenched in the issue and seem unwilling to meet in the center about these sorts of things) and its also human lives were talking about. Being from the US and the demand for cheap labor becoming very high in demand lately it would seem that life in general has become very cheap as a resolute. Its a shame really that Malta left those people strained like that, but then for such a small country it probably can't sustain the amount of refugees coming in and the EU needs to relieve some of the strain in that country. Or if thats too much to ask start pouring more money into a coastal border patrol to deter that sort of thing and deter immigrants from risking their lives to come over there.

It's a shame that Malta heroically resisted Nazi invasion during WWII only to be overwhelmed by a onrush of illegal immigrants. Did it brave the German onslaught and refuse to fly the swastika only to find a crescent on their flag?

It's a shame that Malta heroically resisted Nazi invasion during WWII only to be overwhelmed by a onrush of illegal immigrants. Did it brave the German onslaught and refuse to fly the swastika only to find a crescent on their flag?

Somehow, Nazism and Islam seem different to me...

It's a shame that Malta heroically resisted Nazi invasion during WWII only to be overwhelmed by a onrush of illegal immigrants. Did it brave the German onslaught and refuse to fly the swastika only to find a crescent on their flag? lol not to sound like an idiot (though you've probably have already made up your mind about me) but are you being sarcastic?

Somehow, Nazism and Islam seem different to me...

Nonsense, they're both pan-germanic fascist racist political organisations.

It's a shame that Malta heroically resisted Nazi invasion during WWII only to be overwhelmed by a onrush of illegal immigrants. Did it brave the German onslaught and refuse to fly the swastika only to find a crescent on their flag?

Oh yeah, cause I'm sure those immigrants came to conquer them...:rolleyes:

Nonsense, they're both pan-germanic fascist racist political organisations.

Oh, yes, of course. :p

It's a shame that Malta heroically resisted Nazi invasion during WWII only to be overwhelmed by a onrush of illegal immigrants. Did it brave the German onslaught and refuse to fly the swastika only to find a crescent on their flag?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Well, I could...but I'd get banned for trolling.

Nonsense, they're both pan-germanic fascist racist political organisations.

Last time I checked, Islam was a religion...:p

Last time I checked, Islam was a religion...:p

Last time I checked, a patently ridiculous statement could be taken as a joke.

Well if we're looking at future uprising of the poor to overthrow the rich it wouldn't be the first time (The French Revolution is the example I can come up with though).

These people are not trying to reach Malta, per se. They are trying to reach the EU. Therefore, they are the EU's problem from a legal standpoint. I am ignoring the logistical aspect which makes the migrants Malta's problems.

So the next question I need answered is this: what is the legal status of people who simply show up at the border demanding asylum in the EU? Is this the case here?

Oh yeah, cause I'm sure those immigrants came to conquer them...:rolleyes:

No, but they are imposing their own cultural values upon Malta.

Well borders on countries are what put a strain on nations who take in these kinds of people. To answer you question gift-of-god I'm assuming it depends on their situation (running from a dictator or a poor economic situation). But, the sad truth is we can't take in everyone which is why we have immigration laws in the first place to handle them on a case by case basis.

No, but they are imposing their own cultural values upon Malta. That could be true, but we haven't seen that yet.

No, but they are imposing their own cultural values upon Malta.

Are they? I suppose you have an example of how the immigrants have been doing this in Malta then?

Oh yeah, cause I'm sure those immigrants came to conquer them...:rolleyes:

Maybe not politically or militarily, but I could imagine a Maltese citizen fearing for their culture. Muslims (and Latin Americans for that matter) tend to have strong family networks, and thus never need to assimilate into the local culture, preferring to associate with people they know and who are culturally similar. As a result as the population of immigrants grow, so does their power as a cultural group and instead of simply mixing the cultures to make a European-Islamic swirl, they seek to change the local culture to fit their own wants and needs.

No, but they are imposing their own cultural values upon Malta.

Where does it say that in the article?

Did you even read it? Of course not, you just assumed since they were immigrants (and muslim ones to boot) they must be trying to impose there 'evil cutural doctrines' on the peoples of Malta.

Now these are immigrants, not soldiers: They didn't come to conquer the Maltese nor are they trying to impose their 'evil culture'. They are most likely trying to find a better place to live.

Go away, FAG.

Where does it say that in the article?

Did you even read it? Of course not, you just assumed since they were immigrants (and muslim ones to boot) they must be trying to impose there 'evil cutural doctrines' on the peoples of Malta.

Now these are immigrants, not soldiers: They didn't come to conquer the Maltese nor are they trying to impose their 'evil culture'. They are most likely trying to find a better place to live.

Go away, FAG.

Why do you need to scare him away, we can't really get anywhere in this conversation without a devils advocate being a part of it.

Maybe not politically or militarily, but I could imagine a Maltese citizen fearing for their culture. Muslims (and Latin Americans for that matter) tend to have strong family networks, and thus never need to assimilate into the local culture, preferring to associate with people they know and who are culturally similar. As a result as the population of immigrants grow, so does their power as a cultural group and instead of simply mixing the cultures to make a European-Islamic swirl, they seek to change the local culture to fit their own wants and needs.

It said nothing about anyone imposing cultural beliefs in the article.
Must be nice to just assume that every muslim seeks to change European culture to their own.

Maybe not politically or militarily, but I could imagine a Maltese citizen fearing for their culture. Muslims (and Latin Americans for that matter) tend to have strong family networks, and thus never need to assimilate into the local culture, preferring to associate with people they know and who are culturally similar. As a result as the population of immigrants grow, so does their power as a cultural group and instead of simply mixing the cultures to make a European-Islamic swirl, they seek to change the local culture to fit their own wants and needs.

That could also be valid but I think those immigrants are more worried about running from whatever it was in their homeland to try to enact some new social revolution.

Why do you need to scare him away, we can't really get anywhere in this conversation without a devils advocate being a part of it.

I'd take Parkus, Remote Observer, and Drunk Commies Deleted over FAG to play Devil's Advocate.

Where does it say that in the article?

Do you think that the Muslims will drop their antiquated traditions when making the voyage to Malta? Don't be ridiculous; we've seen the perils of unrestricted cultural infiltration in many European nations, where Muslims are imposing their own viewpoints on the country while the petrified citizens dare not do anything to offend the followers of Islam. The Muslims refuse to be integrated into society; this is true for Europe and Malta. While the Muslims may not be actively seeking to turn Malta into an Islamic state, if they emigrate in sufficient numbers and the population becomes predominantly Muslim, Malta may go down the path of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and virtually every other Arab nation: towards authoritarianism, economic stagnation, and despair.

I'd take Parkus, Remote Observer, and Drunk Commies Deleted over FAG to play Devil's Advocate.

Then your already closing your eyes and ears to issues that matter to you the most :).

Then your already closing your eyes and ears to issues that matter to you the most :).

I don't think that preferring to argue with people who can construct a coherent point rather than an angry ape someone has mistakenly taught to type is closing your mind to opposing view points.

Do you think that the Muslims will drop their antiquated traditions when making the voyage to Malta? Don't be ridiculous; we've seen the perils of unrestricted cultural infiltration in many European nations, where Muslims are imposing their own viewpoints on the country while the petrified citizens dare not do anything to offend the followers of Islam. The Muslims refuse to be integrated into society; this is true for Europe and Malta. While the Muslims may not be actively seeking to turn Malta into an Islamic state, if they emigrate in sufficient numbers and the population becomes predominantly Muslim, Malta may go down the path of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and virtually every other Arab nation: towards authoritarianism, economic stagnation, and despair.

Well hopefully they're moderate Muslims.

I don't think that preferring to argue with people who can construct a coherent point rather than an angry ape someone has mistakenly taught to type is closing your mind to opposing view points.

Say what you want but there's a human being still running that user name and they have a say (no matter how incoherent). Would you rather talk to me instead ;).

Do you think that the Muslims will drop their antiquated traditions when making the voyage to Malta? Don't be ridiculous; we've seen the perils of unrestricted cultural infiltration in many European nations, where Muslims are imposing their own viewpoints on the country while the petrified citizens dare not do anything to offend the followers of Islam. The Muslims refuse to be integrated into society; this is true for Europe and Malta. While the Muslims may not be actively seeking to turn Malta into an Islamic state, if they emigrate in sufficient numbers and the population becomes predominantly Muslim, Malta may go down the path of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and virtually every other Arab nation: towards authoritarianism, economic stagnation, and despair.

Come off it: These are refugees. They don't care about imposing Islam or there viewpoints on Europe. They care about getting away from whatever it was that caused them to leave Libya.

And lets not pretend that Europe is just bending over to invasion by 'Teh Ebil Muslims'. Lets not pretend that every European is some innocent, helpless, peaceful person and the muslims are brutal conquerers. Not every muslim seeks to destroy Euro Culture.

Come off it: These are refugees. They don't care about imposing Islam or there viewpoints on Europe. They care about getting away from whatever it was that caused them to leave Libya.

And lets not pretend that Europe is just bending over to invasion by 'Teh Ebil Muslims'. Lets not pretend that every European is some innocent, helpless, peaceful person and the muslims are brutal conquerers. Not every muslim seeks to destroy Euro Culture.

However, there are Muslims who want to destroy us and its Europe's job to tell those people apart.

Do you think that the Muslims will drop their antiquated traditions when making the voyage to Malta? Don't be ridiculous; we've seen the perils of unrestricted cultural infiltration in many European nations, where Muslims are imposing their own viewpoints on the country while the petrified citizens dare not do anything to offend the followers of Islam. The Muslims refuse to be integrated into society; this is true for Europe and Malta. While the Muslims may not be actively seeking to turn Malta into an Islamic state, if they emigrate in sufficient numbers and the population becomes predominantly Muslim, Malta may go down the path of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and virtually every other Arab nation: towards authoritarianism, economic stagnation, and despair.
*Yawn*

*Yawn*

If you want excitement, look at The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or whatever other action-packed movies you watch. If, on the other hand, you want cold, hard, realism, you'd do well to pay attention.

However, there are Muslims who want to destroy us and its Europe's job to tell those people apart.

Exactly! There are Muslims who are quite evil(the leader of Iran comes to mind), but these are refugees. And you can't say "All Islamic People Are Evil" anymore than you can say "All Christians & Euros are Evil". It depends on the person.

It's a shame that Malta heroically resisted Nazi invasion during WWII only to be overwhelmed by a onrush of illegal immigrants. Did it brave the German onslaught and refuse to fly the swastika only to find a crescent on their flag?

Of Course FAG, you wouldn't see any difference between Nazism and Islam...:rolleyes:

Hey, If Refugees are swimming just to get to Malta, the UN Should implement what We did with the Lost Boys of Africa. If No one's heard of that, it was a trek that many men and boys made, for over a span of YEARS. When they reached a refugee camp, the US Set up a plan to bring in planes every week to take so many of them back to the US and spread them out, all over the country. I'm not exactly sure the number, but I like to think of it as pouring a cup of water into a half full gallon of water. Make sense to anyone?

If you want excitement, look at The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or whatever other action-packed movies you watch. If, on the other hand, you want cold, hard, realism, you'd do well to pay attention.

You're not dealing out cold, hard realism though. Your dealing out crap.

Exactly! There are Muslims who are quite evil(the leader of Iran comes to mind), but these are refugees. And you can't say "All Islamic People Are Evil" anymore than you can say "All Christians & Euros are Evil". It depends on the person.

Well they should do some kind of back round check on all those refugees that are coming in. You can't just have illegal immigrants running around with no papers. Also stop using FAG if you want to talk about human dignity here thats a word you can avoid using in this conversation (unless your 5 years old in which go ahead, you don't know any better :rolleyes:).

If you want excitement, look at The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or whatever other action-packed movies you watch. If, on the other hand, you want cold, hard, realism, you'd do well to pay attention.
What, in order to see you spouting another unsubstantiated anti-liberal/Chinese/Muslims/Immigrant tirade, and to remind myself of what reality doesn't involve?

Well they should do some kind of back round check on all those refugees that are coming in. You can't just have illegal immigrants running around with no papers. Also stop using FAG if you want to talk about human dignity here thats a word you can avoid using in this conversation (unless your 5 years old in which go ahead, you don't know any better :rolleyes:).

FAG is short for Freedom And Glory...:p:rolleyes:

lol well I under-estimated you there :D (sorry I'm new) but I still stand behind my last post.

FAG is short for Freedom And Glory...:p:rolleyes:

I prefer the abbreviation F&G (or, alternatively, FG; after all, the United States of America is not generally referred to as the USOA).

If you want excitement, look at The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, or whatever other action-packed movies you watch. If, on the other hand, you want cold, hard, realism, you'd do well to pay attention.

The Little Mermaid? An action film? I must disagree with you good sir I didn't see any bullet time occur during that film :D.

I prefer the abbreviation F&G (or, alternatively, FG; after all, the United States of America is not generally referred to as the USOA).

Hey, I didn't come up with it, but sure. From now on, I'll use the abbreviation F&G when speaking of you.

Do you think that the Muslims will drop their antiquated traditions when making the voyage to Malta? Don't be ridiculous; we've seen the perils of unrestricted cultural infiltration in many European nations, where Muslims are imposing their own viewpoints on the country while the petrified citizens dare not do anything to offend the followers of Islam. The Muslims refuse to be integrated into society; this is true for Europe and Malta. While the Muslims may not be actively seeking to turn Malta into an Islamic state, if they emigrate in sufficient numbers and the population becomes predominantly Muslim, Malta may go down the path of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and virtually every other Arab nation: towards authoritarianism, economic stagnation, and despair.

ummm....I don't think so....by the time most of those immigrants have children who are exposed to Western Culture they will be assimilated...that's what happened to my family and several of my Afghan-Muslim friends...

1 Do you think that the Muslims will drop their antiquated traditions when making the voyage to Malta? Don't be ridiculous; 2 we've seen the perils of unrestricted cultural infiltration in many European nations, where Muslims are imposing their own viewpoints on the country while the petrified citizens dare not do anything to offend the followers of Islam. 3 The Muslims refuse to be integrated into society; this is true for Europe and Malta. 4 While the Muslims may not be actively seeking to turn Malta into an Islamic state, if they emigrate in sufficient numbers and the population becomes predominantly Muslim, Malta may go down the path of Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and virtually every other Arab nation: towards authoritarianism, economic stagnation, and despair.

1 Not all muslims have "antiquated traditions", some can even drive cars you know.

2 And exactly where would that be? Sorry to disappoint you but there are no hordes of petrified European citizens taking to the streets, the reason being that they recognise islamic extremism for what it is - extremeism, not the norm, not the majority, not even a sizable minority.

3/B] Again in which countries would this be? Here in Britain there are certain enclaves where muslims have become ghettoised through economic means, but the vast majority are fully integrated into society. They attend British schools, speak english, eat english food.

[B]4 To imagine that any European nation could become the next Iran is, frankly, pure fantasy. There is absolutely no chance of Sharia or authoritarian islamic law taking hold in any European country. Why? Firstly, the native population don't want it, secondly, the immigrants are usually fleeing those regimes and don't want it either

As usual FAG you have made several false statements without knowing anything about the situation and without [B]one shred[B] of evidence to back up what you have said. Back it up with some evidence. I dare you.

[B]3/B] Again in which countries would this be? Here in Britain there are certain enclaves where muslims have become ghettoised through economic means, but the vast majority are fully integrated into society. They attend British schools, speak english, eat english food.
Hell, we even eat their food too. Gosh, I feel so culturally advanced.:p

Hell, we even eat their food too. Gosh, I feel so culturally advanced.:p

Tell me about it. I ate a falafel the other day and thought "my word how multi cultural am I" :p

While I'm in favor of relaxing citizenship requirements so that more people can come into the US legally (and in turn, pay taxes, get benefits, work jobs), what about some other cases?

Malta springs to mind. It's a tiny place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6746013.stm

That's a lot, for a place that's as small as Malta.

Honestly, the other EU countries should be required to take any further immigrants that Malta has to pick up (they've recently refused to rescue 24 people clinging to a fishing net at sea). But, it appears there's no agreement, and the other EU countries seem to be saying Malta did something wrong by not picking them up.

I see - we should force Malta to take refugees who manage to float or swim that far, until the place is packed with refugees stacked like cordwood from one end of the island to the other.

What do you see as a viable solution? Having the Maltese immediately send them back to Libya? Having the rest of the EU agree to take any further immigrants? Any ideas?
:rolleyes:

Step one: Save anyone and everyone who is in need of help on the ocean. NO EXCEPTIONS. You don't leave them to drown.

Step two: Take in the refugees and the immigrants. Let the asylum seekers get asylum, the refugees find a safe haven, and return the immigrants that don't qualify according to the immigration law.

And no, you don't return them to Libya, you send them home.