NationStates Jolt Archive

US Interrogates Terror Suspects in Ethiopian Jails

Terror suspects have been questioned by US officials in Ethiopia after being transferred from Somalia and Kenya. The captives included Europeans who were detained, interrogated and then released without charge.

The CIA's system of unlawful kidnappings of terrorist suspects known as "extraordinary renditions" appears to have been extended to the Horn of Africa. New cases have emerged of the transfer of terror suspects to prisons in third countries, where they have been questioned and allegedly mistreated -- this time in East Africa. In total more than 100 terror suspects are thought to have been arrested in Somalia and Kenya and transferred to Ethiopia to face interrogation by US officials.
(...)
The government in Washington confirmed to DER SPIEGEL that "in the past few months a number of prisoners have been questioned in Ethiopia." Up to 200 agents of the CIA and FBI are thought to be currently based in Addis Ababa.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487893,00.html

Will you U.S.-American citizens please get a hold of your damn government and make them stop behaving like fucking fascists all over the world?
This is really pissing me off to no end. I'm so sick and tired of this bullshit you wouldn't believe it!
Make them follow the damn laws your country has. Accept that there is a world outside of the borders of your precious country and that its population only makes up a fraction of humans on this world. And make them stop behaving like assholes, all in the name of "democracy" and "freedom". Fuck that! If that is what you consider freedom, I want none of it.

That in combination with this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,488026,00.html

Judges Say US Can't Hold Man as 'Combatant'
A federal appeals court ruled that the president may not declare civilians in this country "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely.
Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, 37, seen in a May 2003 handout photo from the Peoria, Ill., County Sheriff's Department.
The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., ruled yesterday that the president may not declare civilians in this country to be "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely. The ruling was a stinging rejection of one of the Bush administration's central assertions about the scope of executive authority to combat terrorism.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487813,00.html

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH AMERICA'S SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
US Plans New Travel Restrictions for Europeans
Michael Chertoff, 53, discusses the dispute between US terror investigators and EU privacy regulators about the use of passenger data and an extremely controversial proposal that would require Europeans to register online two days before traveling to America.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487325,00.html

NEW REPORT CITES PROOF OF CIA BLACK SITES
'Massive and Systematic Violations' of Human Rights'
In his second report for the Council of Europe, special investigator Dick Marty will say that he has "enough evidence to state" that the CIA operated secret prisons in Poland and Romania. SPIEGEL ONLINE has obtained a copy of the report, which is due for release this afternoon. It documents a "series of illegal acts" on the part of the CIA.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486182,00.html

MARINES ON TRIAL FOR HADITHA MURDERS
Massacre for a Fallen Comrade?
The first verdicts are expected to be handed down soon in a trial that has shocked the United States. The defendants are seven Marines, three of them charged with executing 24 civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha. The massacre was one of the greatest setbacks in the Americans' battle for hearts and minds in Iraq.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486135,00.html
OPINION
The Emperor's Green Clothes
In presenting his own proposal to deal with greenhouse gas emissions just days before next week's G-8 summit, Bush is trying to look like a leader on climate change in the hope of outmaneuvering Europe and his critics. But his plan is purposely vague and his ideas stale.

Go ask yourself what your country has come to and whether this is really the path you want to be travelling in the future. I really expected more from the United States, although, looking back, I don't really know why anymore.

And some still wonder why the U.S. has such a bad repuation on this here our little blue planet? Hah!

They would except that the government once elected just does whatever the fuck it wants. Sure the average American express moral outrage but will really change anything unless it's the all-mighty election time? They will simply say it's in the name of the war on terror and in the interest of national security and bring up the name of today's sacred boogy man.

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.

Diddums.

I'm sure they don't get their heads put in vices or body parts drilled do they?

Probably not.. but thats what happens to us if we're caught by them. Or just beheaded...

Stop ragging on America because this world doesn't have the balls to do whats needed, the extremists are far worse in what they do. Go bitch to them.:fluffle:

Diddums.

I'm sure they don't get their heads put in vices or body parts drilled do they?

Probably not.. but thats what happens to us if we're caught by them. Or just beheaded...

Stop ragging on America because this world doesn't have the balls to do whats needed, the extremists are far worse in what they do. Go bitch to them.:fluffle:

Exactly. In a world where the alternatives are the People's Republic of "Burn the midnight oil" China, the Islamic Republic of "I die for Allah!" Iran, the Republic of "How may I redirect your call?" India, and the Russian "Have another Smirnoff" Federation, I'm fully behind the United States.

Diddums.

I'm sure they don't get their heads put in vices or body parts drilled do they?

Probably not.. but thats what happens to us if we're caught by them. Or just beheaded...

Stop ragging on America because this world doesn't have the balls to do whats needed, the extremists are far worse in what they do. Go bitch to them.:fluffle:

Well some evidence suggests that one of the techniques carried out on "special rendition" prisoners is repeated cutting of their penis with razor blades, so pretty much yes they do. The extremists make no pretence of being about freedom, democracy and defending human rights - the US does.

Exactly. In a world where the alternatives are the People's Republic of "Burn the midnight oil" China, the Islamic Republic of "I die for Allah!" Iran, the Republic of "How may I redirect your call?" India, and the Russian "Have another Smirnoff" Federation, I'm fully behind the United States.

What's scary is I think you're serious.

We can't get control of our government. The reason being the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform bill. After it was passed, there were caps on individual contributions and corporations. Which was great, for about 1 whole election cycle. Now, you have special interest groups who can donate unlimited amounts of money.

One example would be the Project for a New American Century. To get money from this group, you have to be pro-CIA prisons, pro-torture, pro-war. There are various other groups like it. Since Politicians need money to get elected (because voters vote for whoever spams their TV more.....im not kidding....I am for voter literacy tests for said reason..) they need the unlimited money from these "Special Interests".

We are fucked. And if the two main candidates for 08 are Giuliani and Clinton, I will flee to Australia or NZ.

It is kind of an endless cycle right now. Party A fucks up, so we go to party B. Party B also screws up, so we go back to A. And for some reason the public never catches on that maybe, just maybe, these parties are basically the same and thats why problems never get fixed.

Now I am getting pissed....:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

What's scary is I think you're serious.

Of course I'm serious. What country would you honestly prefer leading the world?

Of course I'm serious. What country would you honestly prefer leading the world?

Canada, UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden....


I could go on.

Of course I'm serious. What country would you honestly prefer leading the world?

One of the Scandinavian ones

They would except that the government once elected just does whatever the fuck it wants. Sure the average American express moral outrage but will really change anything unless it's the all-mighty election time? They will simply say it's in the name of the war on terror and in the interest of national security and bring up the name of today's sacred boogy man.

Even then it doesn't change. The Democrats were elected on the promise that they get us out of Iraq immediately.

Did they do it?

Hell no. In fact, some of them voted against leaving.

Like you said, the government does what it wants once elected.

As for boogeyman, terrorists exist. While they may not be as great of a threat as they are made out to be, they still exist, and still are a threat.

What most people have a problem with is fighting existential threats. We did it during the Cold War, and it turned out to have been real, and we won.

Point of fact, something has to be done to fight radical Islam. Whether or not what we're doing is the right way to do it is another question.

But going with plans like Edwards' 10,000 more Peace Corps people sent to terrorist lands is only going to get 10,000 dead Peace Corps people having their heads cut off by Taliban on the Internet.

[B][I][COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"][SIZE="3"]Will you U.S.-American citizens please get a hold of your damn government and make them stop behaving like fucking fascists all over the world?

The government is broke. If we, as citizens, had any control of this monster, we'd be able to get passports issued in less than a year, we'd be able to control the spending, and we'd be able to control immigration. We'd do a lot of things. Maybe even some that you Europeans would approve of... But, the government is broke and isn't going to be fixed any time soon.

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.

Because everybody else knows how futile it is to stoop to their level in order to fight them.

That or they still value their core belief more than projecting the illusion of being better than those they fight.

Because everybody else knows how futile it is to stoop to their level in order to fight them.

That or they still value their core belief more than projecting the illusion of being better than those they fight.

It's not futile if the interrogations get results.

Apparently, given the number of terrorists we've been able to find and kill, or find and capture, it must be working.

You don't get those kinds of results by being nice.

Canada, UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden....


I could go on.

Now, which of those countries has the resources and power to do that?

Even then it doesn't change. The Democrats were elected on the promise that they get us out of Iraq immediately.

Did they do it?

Hell no. In fact, some of them voted against leaving.

Like you said, the government does what it wants once elected.

As for boogeyman, terrorists exist. While they may not be as great of a threat as they are made out to be, they still exist, and still are a threat.

What most people have a problem with is fighting existential threats. We did it during the Cold War, and it turned out to have been real, and we won.

Point of fact, something has to be done to fight radical Islam. Whether or not what we're doing is the right way to do it is another question.

But going with plans like Edwards' 10,000 more Peace Corps people sent to terrorist lands is only going to get 10,000 dead Peace Corps people having their heads cut off by Taliban on the Internet.

Edwards plan would be funny. 10,000 dead hippies.

The dems will get us out, but the senate plan says 3 days before the election (I wonder why they would pick that date.......) while the house plan says this time next year.

The government is all douchebags. I want to round up and execute all the politicians from both parties. Treason would probably be easy enough to get most of them on.

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.
And this mindset is why I can't take any of what you say serious.
Stop ragging on America because this world doesn't have the balls to do whats needed, the extremists are far worse in what they do.
At least they don't pretend to be the shiny beacon of freedom and democracy.
And it's okay because the others are worse? That's a really bad way to argue.
The extremists make no pretence of being about freedom, democracy and defending human rights - the US does.
Yup.
Now I am getting pissed....:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:
Welcome aboard.
Of course I'm serious. What country would you honestly prefer leading the world?
Honestly, I'd prefer no single country leading the world - especially not the US in how they are going about it right now.

Even then it doesn't change. The Democrats were elected on the promise that they get us out of Iraq immediately.

Did they do it?

Hell no. In fact, some of them voted against leaving.

Like you said, the government does what it wants once elected.

As for boogeyman, terrorists exist. While they may not be as great of a threat as they are made out to be, they still exist, and still are a threat.

What most people have a problem with is fighting existential threats. We did it during the Cold War, and it turned out to have been real, and we won.

Point of fact, something has to be done to fight radical Islam. Whether or not what we're doing is the right way to do it is another question.

But going with plans like Edwards' 10,000 more Peace Corps people sent to terrorist lands is only going to get 10,000 dead Peace Corps people having their heads cut off by Taliban on the Internet.


The bolded statements are so false, it's not even funny anymore.

It's not futile if the interrogations get results.
Apparently, given the number of terrorists we've been able to find and kill, or find and capture, it must be working.
You don't get those kinds of results by being nice.
And given the number of innocents you've incarcerated wrongly and tortured without obtaining any results whatsoever, I wonder how many new terrorists you've created.
Now, which of those countries has the resources and power to do that?
Combined, they all do.

Now, which of those countries has the resources and power to do that?

Well gee if they pool their resources, all of them. Go figure. I think there's an organization to do that. League of nations maybe? Nah that name is silly, what is that place called? Their HQ is in New York, shiny building, lots of flags. Hmmm.... Oh yes, the UNITED NATIONS.

Because everybody else knows how futile it is to stoop to their level in order to fight them.

That or they still value their core belief more than projecting the illusion of being better than those they fight.
Yeah, but try and tell that to our American friends and they will resort to the old "might makes right" whereas they should be heeding to "two wrongs don't make one right".

Honestly, I'd prefer no single country leading the world - especially not the US in how they are going about it right now.

Well, too bad! If the US goes, it's going to be fucking CHINA running the world. And they won't pretend to be nice. They'll just do whatever the fuck they want when they want.

It's not futile if the interrogations get results.

And by results, you mean coerced results that are sometimes correct and sometimes just a way to stop the hurting. Of course troture yields results, look at how much witches we found last time we used it.

Apparently, given the number of terrorists we've been able to find and kill, or find and capture, it must be working.

Just because you say he is a terrorist and torture him until he says so doesn't make him a terrorist. Besides, how many of those terrorist were created by the very policy you are using to stop them?

You don't get those kinds of results by being nice.
And yet, here I sit comfortably delighted that the last terrorist act in my country was a dispute over language and happened 30 years ago. By your logic, being nice must be working: they haven't targetted us yet.

What the U.S. needs is another Superpower rival. That way, we wouldn't do this stuff.

Well gee if they pool their resources, all of them. Go figure. I think there's an organization to do that. League of nations maybe? Nah that name is silly, what is that place called? Their HQ is in New York, shiny building, lots of flags. Hmmm.... Oh yes, the UNITED NATIONS.

The day the United Nations actually takes control of the planet is the day Hitler, Tojo and Roosevelt all rise from their graves and have a pizza party.

Besides, you just fucked your own argument. The United Nations is just the League of Nations. Except, much, much more redundant.

The other countries need to stand up to Bush and make him see sense

*note to Blair/Brown - stop denying existance of rendition flights and grow some stones*

And by results, you mean coerced results that are sometimes correct and sometimes just a way to stop the hurting. Of course troture yields results, look at how much witches we found last time we used it.

Just because you say he is a terrorist and torture him until he says so doesn't make him a terrorist. Besides, how many of those terrorist were created by the very policy you are using to stop them?

And yet, here I sit comfortably delighted that the last terrorist act in my country was a dispute over language and happened 30 years ago. By your logic, being nice must be working: they haven't targetted us yet.

Being nice doesn't get answers out of Khalid Sheik Mohammed.

Waterboarding him certainly did, inside of two minutes.

He gave up his entire network, most of whom were subsequently assassinated.

It worked.

Hasn't been a repeat of 9/11 in the US - even though Khalid had many plans to do exactly that.

Well gee if they pool their resources, all of them. Go figure. I think there's an organization to do that. League of nations maybe? Nah that name is silly, what is that place called? Their HQ is in New York, shiny building, lots of flags. Hmmm.... Oh yes, the UNITED NATIONS.

Too bad the US and the others who have veto power have rendered the UN obsolete by vetoing resolutions that might have otherwise helped put the world back on the right track.

If the US treated the UN right they might actually be able to get something done to make the world safer. But they chose to at unilaterally so... they reap what they have sown.

It's not futile if the interrogations get results.

Apparently, given the number of terrorists we've been able to find and kill, or find and capture, it must be working.

You don't get those kinds of results by being nice.

The question is does it get reliable results. If people are tortured and asked to name accomplices they will pretty much name anyone they can think of. This is neither desirable or useful. You just end up with lots of innocent people detained and still no clue as to who is dangerous and who isn't. Intelligence is only useful if it is accurate.

The question is does it get reliable results. If people are tortured and asked to name accomplices they will pretty much name anyone they can think of. This is neither desirable or useful. You just end up with lots of innocent people detained and still no clue as to who is dangerous and who isn't. Intelligence is only useful if it is accurate.

Apparently, they didn't use Khalid's confessions as a sole source.

The results were extremely accurate.

Too bad the US and the others who have veto power have rendered the UN obsolete by vetoing resolutions that might have otherwise helped put the world back on the right track.

If the US treated the UN right they might actually be able to get something done to make the world safer. But they chose to at unilaterally so... they reap what they have sown.

The US is all about democracy, until you let other people participate.

Apparently, they didn't use Khalid's confessions as a sole source.

The results were extremely accurate.

If they had other sources why the need for torture?

If they had other sources why the need for torture?

It's called verification. You don't use only one source, you use every tool in the shed.

They had his laptop. It's one thing to read the hard drive - it's another to know what code words he used, etc.

It turns a supposedly meaningless document or email into pure gold.

The US is all about democracy, until you let other people participate.

Elitist democracy; good enough for us and screw you assholes, I'm taking it and going home! :)

It's called verification. You don't use only one source, you use every tool in the shed.

They had his laptop. It's one thing to read the hard drive - it's another to know what code words he used, etc.

It turns a supposedly meaningless document or email into pure gold.

"We know you did X. We'll torture you until you say you did X because we know you did X."

That it happened to be on the right person once doesn't make the method any more reliable. He said what they wanted to hear nonetheless. But you get your jollies seeing people being tortured, so you don't care about a justification anyways.

Elitist democracy; good enough for us and screw you assholes, I'm taking it and going home! :)

The people who agree with us are allowed to vote, everyone else can fuck off.

The people who agree with us are allowed to vote, everyone else can fuck off.

Gosh, I thought the US system was:

You're a rich person, probably a lawyer.

You get together with some rich friends, possibly taking money from special interests who are really fronts for other rich people, and get rich celebs to say nice things about you. You become either a Republican or Democrat, and run for office saying things you don't mean, or don't care to really do, and stupid people who aren't rich elect you to office, where you do whatever you damn well please, including voting against what you said you would do, raping interns, and in some cases, strangling them and dumping their bodies in Rock Creek Park and denying it later.

If you're stupid, you get caught when your friends give you money under the table (Cunningham, Jefferson), but most of the time, no one notices.

They only problem I see with this is the fact its making the news.

Gosh, I thought the US system was:

You're a rich person, probably a lawyer.

You get together with some rich friends, possibly taking money from special interests who are really fronts for other rich people, and get rich celebs to say nice things about you. You become either a Republican or Democrat, and run for office saying things you don't mean, or don't care to really do, and stupid people who aren't rich elect you to office, where you do whatever you damn well please, including voting against what you said you would do, raping interns, and in some cases, strangling them and dumping their bodies in Rock Creek Park and denying it later.

If you're stupid, you get caught when your friends give you money under the table (Cunningham, Jefferson), but most of the time, no one notices.

Best part is if you do get caught no one seems to be surprised or care, because it's "politics as usual"! Though we were referring to the UN and not the US "democracy".

That OP is by far the greatest format I have ever seen.

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.

Or we're the only paranoid ones around?

They only problem I see with this is the fact its making the news.

Is Milita a spelling mistake?

Exactly. In a world where the alternatives are the People's Republic of "Burn the midnight oil" China, the Islamic Republic of "I die for Allah!" Iran, the Republic of "How may I redirect your call?" India, and the Russian "Have another Smirnoff" Federation, I'm fully behind the United States.

Amen!

Why don't you whiners go live in Venezuela, Cuba, Iran and North Korea.

Terrorist suspects aren't particularly worried about my human rights (i.e. living) so until they do, I'll extend them the same courtesy: FCUK 'EM!

Amazing that Europeans sat back andwatched the Balkans tear itself apart and then profess our outrage that the US annoys the folks the EU are trying to sell weapons etc. to and buy fuel etc. from.
Boohoo, we sat on our hands because Russia vetoed the UN efforts to do something...big suprise!
Then Russia obliterates Chechnya...Ever see many anti-G8 protestors complain about that???

For example, Spain has recently negotiated a $1bn arms deal with Hugo Chavez...and we know what lovely guy he is! Yet their lefty socialist government were repulsed by Bush?

Just a whiff of double standards there...no?

Well, too bad! If the US goes, it's going to be fucking CHINA running the world. And they won't pretend to be nice. They'll just do whatever the fuck they want when they want.
And? It's not like the U.S. isn't doing exactly that already.
Being nice doesn't get answers out of Khalid Sheik Mohammed.
Waterboarding him certainly did, inside of two minutes.
He gave up his entire network, most of whom were subsequently assassinated.
It worked.
Hasn't been a repeat of 9/11 in the US - even though Khalid had many plans to do exactly that.
In which way does that justify torturing innocents?
Or kidnapping people from all over the world and mistreating them?

It doesn't.
Not quite as bad as some of this then is it:

[LINK NOT ACCEPTABLE ACCORDING TO NATIONSTATES' PG-13 RULE]

No I didn't think so.

Oh and, they are supposed to love all followers of Islam like their sisters, yet look who they have tortured at the end... Muslims. GG.
Right. And because your enemy is using terrible methods it's not only acceptable to sink to the same level, but using that as an excuse.
That's one way of justifying ones actions... NOT!
That OP is by far the greatest format I have ever seen.
Why, thank you, Ruffy.

Feel free to use it if you like. :)

*Snip*
Indeed.

You could also have included things like alienating the friendlies in Afghanistan...
He described how it was only after the villagers were angered by culturally insensitive house searches that they picked up guns and took on the American military machine.

"When the Americans came the people started fighting them back, and then the planes came and started bombing us.

"Even under the Russians we haven't witnessed bombardments like it before."

The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC) investigated the accounts and identified that at least 25 of those killed in Shindand were women and children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6705607.stm
Canada, UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden....

I could go on.
Not the Swiss! :eek:

Damn swiss... *Mumbles*
The government is broke. If we, as citizens, had any control of this monster, we'd be able to get passports issued in less than a year, we'd be able to control the spending, and we'd be able to control immigration. We'd do a lot of things. Maybe even some that you Europeans would approve of... But, the government is broke and isn't going to be fixed any time soon.
Can I quote this post in the next gun thread when someone claims thet they need guns to protect themself from an unworking and unfair government? Thanks.

What the U.S. needs is another Superpower rival. That way, we wouldn't do this stuff.

Yes we would.

We'd go back to playing "I've got more nukes, ha! But I have more tanks, ha!" and spy games.

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.

And if they do it without the host countries permission I fully support the arrest trial and punishment (assuming the punishment fits the crime) of ANY external forces that break the countries laws

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.

No one else is doing it because it's wrong.

Not a difficult concept to grasp.

Exactly. In a world where the alternatives are the People's Republic of "Burn the midnight oil" China, the Islamic Republic of "I die for Allah!" Iran, the Republic of "How may I redirect your call?" India, and the Russian "Have another Smirnoff" Federation, I'm fully behind the United States.


Well I'm glad you've gone through all the alternatives (that occur to you), though you'll pardon me pointing out that somebody who thinks threatening to burn a mosque down is a good thing will not be most peoples first stop on the search for different forms of society.

No one else is doing it because it's wrong.

Not a difficult concept to grasp.


You'll find that the difficulty lies with the 'graspee's command of grasping....

You'll find that the difficulty lies with the 'graspee's command of grasping....

I'm hoping people too stupid to grasp the concept will also forget to breath.

I'm hoping people too stupid to grasp the concept will also forget to breath.

We can but hope. I'd settle for them forgetting how to type though.

Terrorist suspects aren't particularly worried about my human rights (i.e. living) so until they do, I'll extend them the same courtesy: FCUK 'EM!

Terrorist suspect =/= Terrorist.

There's a difference, chief.

Of course I'm serious. What country would you honestly prefer leading the world?

hmmm, firstly, I'm not convinced you do "lead the world". The US may be dominant in the West, but to my reckoning Russia, the Middle East and China think you a prick, and tend to do the opposite to what you seek.

Secondly, I've always felt Denmark would be good. Ireland, Italy and Spain would make good world leaders as well. Just not you. Or Britain, or France, or Germany.

I for one await the day the rest of the world has enough of America acting like the schoolyard bully and stand up to it, no doubt revealing it to be as much a coward as any other bully.

Couple of points to consider...

1. Those of us here in the states that oppose this administration are handicapped by our belief in the rule of law in that we are bound by that belief to work within the law to expose and punish the crimes of this administration. Unfortunately, this administration does not have to abide by the law since it considers itself above the law and lies, bribes and takes whatever it deems necessary to further it's own ends. We have seen this over and over again; 'Scooter' Libby is convicted while the man (Dick Cheney) who was behind the whole Plame exposure goes free, Ken Lay is slapped on the wrist for the grossest corporate malfeisance ever recorded while Martha Stewart is thrown in jail after the speediest trial in history for insider trading (she just didn't have Kenny-boy's connections) and now the same thing is going on with Alberto "I can't hear you because my head is too far up Dubya's ass" Gonzalez.

2. Torture is not effective. This has been shown repeatedly during the course of history from the Inquisition to the Salem witch trials to Franco's regime and Stalin's dictatorship. Hurt someone enough and s/he will say whatever you want said. No trustworthy information can be gathered through the use of torture. Even the CIA and FBI agree on this.

3. Do you seriously think the American public likes what this administration has done to our reputation overseas? Bush and his cronies have taken a nation of people who have never, in recorded history, attacked another country without provocation and emboiled us in a war of choice with a country that, not only did not attack us, represented no possible threat to us. We realize this has destroyed our credibility and fueled world hostility against us. The general American public sees America as the knight in shining armour and knowing that we have become actively hated by those who used to be our friends saddens and sickens us. We are trying to put things to rights but our very beliefs hamper us. (Please refer to point #1)

That OP is by far the greatest format I have ever seen.
My thoughts exactly.

You could also have included things like alienating the friendlies in Afghanistan...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6705607.stm
God, I read a huge article in a March issue of the New Yorker today about how the Iraqis working with and for the Americans inside Iraq are treated - and it really soured my mood today. The willful and arrogant ignorance in the top levels of the American government is simply breathtaking.

Diddums.

I'm sure they don't get their heads put in vices or body parts drilled do they?

Probably not.. but thats what happens to us if we're caught by them. Or just beheaded...

Stop ragging on America because this world doesn't have the balls to do whats needed, the extremists are far worse in what they do. Go bitch to them.:fluffle:
If Al Queda jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?


Or a slightly lower bridge, cause you know, you're not as bad...

And by results, you mean coerced results that are sometimes correct and sometimes just a way to stop the hurting. Of course troture yields results, look at how much witches we found last time we used it.

Zing!

The other countries need to stand up to Bush and make him see sense

*note to Blair/Brown - stop denying existance of rendition flights and grow some stones*

I for one await the day the rest of the world has enough of America acting like the schoolyard bully and stand up to it, no doubt revealing it to be as much a coward as any other bully.
No time like the present. Honestly, they're not listening to us. They didn't listen to us when we staged the largest protest in history, they didn't listen to us when we changed the make up of the legislature, they're not listening to us. It's time for the rest of the reasoned world to turn their backs on the US. Certainly a hard blow for me since I'm in the US, but I don't know that there is any other way to let it sink in. If any other nation with less influence was behaving this way there'd be ships outside its borders preventing trade.

I'm not saying that could be possible in this case, but it's time to start severing ties and finding alternatives to dealing with us. And that's happening because we've of late proven unreliable, but now it has to happen in a more dramatic fashion so it's known that the world is not our plaything and that we live in a global community and need to act accordingly.

We slept too long, we're sorry. Do what you have to do.

Good! The United States does it, because nobody else will.

I think it's about time I started randomly kidnapping US citizens then, and stuffing them in holes in some backwater 3rd world country. Why? Because I can. Seems to be about the same reason why the US does what it does.

I for one await the day the rest of the world has enough of America acting like the schoolyard bully and stand up to it, no doubt revealing it to be as much a coward as any other bully.

pfft like Blaire, Sarkozy and Merkel will get the tongues out of bushes ass :(

Thats fine, as long as you ignore the admittedly biased sources such as spiegel, and the new york times. You're just giving one side of the story. If you want to post new york times, you might as well post fox news for the equally biased opposite side.

Of course I'm serious. What country would you honestly prefer leading the world?

The world did not have a "leader" for most of its human history.

Get used to the coming multi-polar world. One not monopolized (if that's a word) by the "west".

But, the government is broke and isn't going to be fixed any time soon.

What do you do with broken things, which you need to function, but can't repair anytime soon? You junk them, and replace it.

Well, too bad! If the US goes, it's going to be fucking CHINA running the world. And they won't pretend to be nice. They'll just do whatever the fuck they want when they want.

F.A.G. is that you? I could swear I'm getting vibes of him from you.

3. Do you seriously think the American public likes what this administration has done to our reputation overseas?Majority of those who care must like as last I checked America touts itself as freedom loving democracy. If the people don't like what the government is doing they can vote differently, go to politics themselves or even found a new party to drive a new political line.

It must be the political deadness - I don't give a damn about politics as all the politicians are corrupt/liers/self righteous/etc.. - of average American that's the cause....the alternative would be that USA is something else than a democracy, let alone free.

Therefore I seriously think that majority of American public - those who cared and voted the ruling politicians and those who didn't care or vote - likes what the administration does.

US Interrogates Terror Suspects in Ethiopian Jails

Terror suspects have been questioned by US officials in Ethiopia after being transferred from Somalia and Kenya. The captives included Europeans who were detained, interrogated and then released without charge.

The CIA's system of unlawful kidnappings of terrorist suspects known as "extraordinary renditions" appears to have been extended to the Horn of Africa. New cases have emerged of the transfer of terror suspects to prisons in third countries, where they have been questioned and allegedly mistreated -- this time in East Africa. In total more than 100 terror suspects are thought to have been arrested in Somalia and Kenya and transferred to Ethiopia to face interrogation by US officials.
(...)
The government in Washington confirmed to DER SPIEGEL that "in the past few months a number of prisoners have been questioned in Ethiopia." Up to 200 agents of the CIA and FBI are thought to be currently based in Addis Ababa.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487893,00.html

Will you U.S.-American citizens please get a hold of your damn government and make them stop behaving like fucking fascists all over the world?
This is really pissing me off to no end. I'm so sick and tired of this bullshit you wouldn't believe it!
Make them follow the damn laws your country has. Accept that there is a world outside of the borders of your precious country and that its population only makes up a fraction of humans on this world. And make them stop behaving like assholes, all in the name of "democracy" and "freedom". Fuck that! If that is what you consider freedom, I want none of it.

That in combination with this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,488026,00.html

Judges Say US Can't Hold Man as 'Combatant'
A federal appeals court ruled that the president may not declare civilians in this country "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely.
Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, 37, seen in a May 2003 handout photo from the Peoria, Ill., County Sheriff's Department.
The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., ruled yesterday that the president may not declare civilians in this country to be "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely. The ruling was a stinging rejection of one of the Bush administration's central assertions about the scope of executive authority to combat terrorism.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487813,00.html

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH AMERICA'S SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
US Plans New Travel Restrictions for Europeans
Michael Chertoff, 53, discusses the dispute between US terror investigators and EU privacy regulators about the use of passenger data and an extremely controversial proposal that would require Europeans to register online two days before traveling to America.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487325,00.html

NEW REPORT CITES PROOF OF CIA BLACK SITES
'Massive and Systematic Violations' of Human Rights'
In his second report for the Council of Europe, special investigator Dick Marty will say that he has "enough evidence to state" that the CIA operated secret prisons in Poland and Romania. SPIEGEL ONLINE has obtained a copy of the report, which is due for release this afternoon. It documents a "series of illegal acts" on the part of the CIA.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486182,00.html

MARINES ON TRIAL FOR HADITHA MURDERS
Massacre for a Fallen Comrade?
The first verdicts are expected to be handed down soon in a trial that has shocked the United States. The defendants are seven Marines, three of them charged with executing 24 civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha. The massacre was one of the greatest setbacks in the Americans' battle for hearts and minds in Iraq.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486135,00.html
OPINION
The Emperor's Green Clothes
In presenting his own proposal to deal with greenhouse gas emissions just days before next week's G-8 summit, Bush is trying to look like a leader on climate change in the hope of outmaneuvering Europe and his critics. But his plan is purposely vague and his ideas stale.

Go ask yourself what your country has come to and whether this is really the path you want to be travelling in the future. I really expected more from the United States, although, looking back, I don't really know why anymore.

And some still wonder why the U.S. has such a bad repuation on this here our little blue planet? Hah!

just as soon as you tell the fucking crazies to stop cuffing people and tossing them off roofs...or flying planes into buildings full of innocents and stop them from blowing up delis full of children...you cant have it both ways..villafy the u.s. and ignore the even more heinous acts of the fanatics.
i know you took the hate the us drug this morning,but take off the beer goggles and look at the shit the other side does..in what name..in the name of god...you have to admit if you have a brain,killing innocents for the cause..no matter how much you hate the us,is not relevant here...
jeez...wtf..so you dont like bush...boohoo..neither do i..but wtf man,these people are not people..they are despicable animals,and asshats like you justifying there atrocities is not going to stop the violence...only increase it twit,
the us is a big bad demon..ok...so what do you do...kill innocents to justify our responce..we will respond like any rational person would to the innocent deaths of people.
this makes me think about something,say al quida sets off a nuke in america...ok...made there point...i feel sorry for the millions,and i mean millions of innocent arabs and mis identified indians...they will be butchered by an angry populace...quite possibly deranged from anger.does that help the fellow muslims?
no i t does not..but it does help their cause..it grows recruits....get the bigger picture about terrorism..it has nothing to do with the cause..it is like a political party getting more voters.
i myself wont kill kids to get votes...but they do...have your disdain for america all you want..but dont be fooled into the idea these fuckers are freedom fighters..they aint..same old song with a few new lines

but dont be fooled into the idea these fuckers are freedom fighters..they aint..same old song with a few new lines

Where did someone on this thread say that?

The world did not have a "leader" for most of its human history.

Get used to the coming multi-polar world. One not monopolized (if that's a word) by the "west".

I'd rather die than be a slave to China or the Muslims.

I'd rather die than be a slave to China or the Muslims.

Nobody's stopping you from offing yourself. And the world might be better without jingoists like you anyway. So toodles.

Summery: Yeah, so?



Long answer:

Truly upsetting that only now does the American public realize that their government's been slowly shifted to the same fanaticism and borderline theocracy that mirrors their enemies almost identically.

Its honestly sad what a little incited patriotism, smoke and mirrors, and a bit of psychology can do. But, once the lies are exposed... there it is. Now, let's see if people actually do something about it.

... No, actually, they won't. Too many people in the world are ignorant, too consumed by the illusion that what they are doing is actually right and just, when the reality is anything but. Oh well, such is politics.

Nobody's stopping you from offing yourself. And the world might be better without jingoists like you anyway. So toodles.

I'll die fighting.

I'll die fighting.

Well, then you get to die in prison then when law enforcement catches you. Or in a hail of lead in a similar situation. Either way, you'll stop polluting people with your noxious notions.

I for one await the day the rest of the world has enough of America acting like the schoolyard bully and stand up to it, no doubt revealing it to be as much a coward as any other bully.

Very true. If America thinks it is justified in using torture to promote its idea of freedom then it is just another tyranny the world would be better off without.

PS. Could whoever took Mr Potato's medication away please give it back.

http://www.catfocused.com/images/imgCCpllling-cat-meds.jpg

I took ur medicinz

I is srry

Well, then you get to die in prison then when law enforcement catches you. Or in a hail of lead in a similar situation. Either way, you'll stop polluting people with your noxious notions.

I'll die fighting the Chinese or the Muslims. Whichever comes first.

I'll die fighting the Chinese or the Muslims. Whichever comes first.

Don't you just live the bravery of the Internet.

You portary yourself as a macho fighting machine, ridding the US of A of all it's enemies. I see you more of someone who sits in a room and posts crud on NS all day. Sad really:(

Don't you just live the bravery of the Internet.

You portary yourself as a macho fighting machine, ridding the US of A of all it's enemies. I see you more of someone who sits in a room and posts crud on NS all day. Sad really:(

How am I going to fight the Chinese or the Muslims now?

I'm no "macho fighting machine". I'm just going to a spear shoved through me in some sort of pointless resistance.

I'll die fighting.

And what a tragedy that would be. Of course that would presume that your Mother lets you out on the day in question.

How am I going to fight the Chinese or the Muslims now?

I'm no "macho fighting machine". I'm just going to a spear shoved through me in some sort of pointless resistance.

"Pointless" being the pivotal word here.

"Pointless" being the pivotal word here.

We are the World, lower your tariffs and prepare for competition

Your economic and cultural distinctiveness will be added to the collective.

Resistance is futile, you will be globalized.

:p

We are the World, lower your tariffs and prepare for competition

Your economic and political distinctiveness will be added to the collective.

Resistance is futile, you will be globalized.

:p

:)

US Interrogates Terror Suspects in Ethiopian Jails

Terror suspects have been questioned by US officials in Ethiopia after being transferred from Somalia and Kenya. The captives included Europeans who were detained, interrogated and then released without charge.

The CIA's system of unlawful kidnappings of terrorist suspects known as "extraordinary renditions" appears to have been extended to the Horn of Africa. New cases have emerged of the transfer of terror suspects to prisons in third countries, where they have been questioned and allegedly mistreated -- this time in East Africa. In total more than 100 terror suspects are thought to have been arrested in Somalia and Kenya and transferred to Ethiopia to face interrogation by US officials.
(...)
The government in Washington confirmed to DER SPIEGEL that "in the past few months a number of prisoners have been questioned in Ethiopia." Up to 200 agents of the CIA and FBI are thought to be currently based in Addis Ababa.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487893,00.html

Will you U.S.-American citizens please get a hold of your damn government and make them stop behaving like fucking fascists all over the world?
This is really pissing me off to no end. I'm so sick and tired of this bullshit you wouldn't believe it!
Make them follow the damn laws your country has. Accept that there is a world outside of the borders of your precious country and that its population only makes up a fraction of humans on this world. And make them stop behaving like assholes, all in the name of "democracy" and "freedom". Fuck that! If that is what you consider freedom, I want none of it.

That in combination with this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,488026,00.html

Judges Say US Can't Hold Man as 'Combatant'
A federal appeals court ruled that the president may not declare civilians in this country "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely.
Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, 37, seen in a May 2003 handout photo from the Peoria, Ill., County Sheriff's Department.
The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., ruled yesterday that the president may not declare civilians in this country to be "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely. The ruling was a stinging rejection of one of the Bush administration's central assertions about the scope of executive authority to combat terrorism.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487813,00.html

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH AMERICA'S SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
US Plans New Travel Restrictions for Europeans
Michael Chertoff, 53, discusses the dispute between US terror investigators and EU privacy regulators about the use of passenger data and an extremely controversial proposal that would require Europeans to register online two days before traveling to America.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487325,00.html

NEW REPORT CITES PROOF OF CIA BLACK SITES
'Massive and Systematic Violations' of Human Rights'
In his second report for the Council of Europe, special investigator Dick Marty will say that he has "enough evidence to state" that the CIA operated secret prisons in Poland and Romania. SPIEGEL ONLINE has obtained a copy of the report, which is due for release this afternoon. It documents a "series of illegal acts" on the part of the CIA.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486182,00.html

MARINES ON TRIAL FOR HADITHA MURDERS
Massacre for a Fallen Comrade?
The first verdicts are expected to be handed down soon in a trial that has shocked the United States. The defendants are seven Marines, three of them charged with executing 24 civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha. The massacre was one of the greatest setbacks in the Americans' battle for hearts and minds in Iraq.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486135,00.html
OPINION
The Emperor's Green Clothes
In presenting his own proposal to deal with greenhouse gas emissions just days before next week's G-8 summit, Bush is trying to look like a leader on climate change in the hope of outmaneuvering Europe and his critics. But his plan is purposely vague and his ideas stale.

Go ask yourself what your country has come to and whether this is really the path you want to be travelling in the future. I really expected more from the United States, although, looking back, I don't really know why anymore.

And some still wonder why the U.S. has such a bad repuation on this here our little blue planet? Hah!

well anyone who stands up to the government in one way or another,will be ignored or arrested.people from other countries seem to think that because our shitty government does something that you don't like we can change it.sorry pal the big wigs are the ones that make the decisions not us.the only thing we vote on is who goes into office.ya know not all americans are the monsters that the rest of the world see us as.it's the government & all the people you see on tv.not the common citizen,who mostly are having their freedoms trampled by the patriot act.yea i'd love to be president & change shit,but i have 9 years before i could even try.the biggest thing that pisses me off is that we send all kinds of aid (food,etc) to other countries that are ingrates & talk all kinds of shit about us. i think the us should say fuck the rest of the world & take care of the problems at home.if everyone hates us,who cares.countries are always asking for help but as soon as they get it ,they are all anti-american.yea i really wish we would just let everyone else to rot.when all these other countries are having civil wars & all kinds of other problems ,they should take care of it themselves.everyone has their own government,economy & law enforcement.so instead of asking for help maybe they should learn how to run their own country.the us needs to forget about the rest of the world & worry about it's own.

We are the World, lower your tariffs and prepare for competition

Your economic and cultural distinctiveness will be added to the collective.

Resistance is futile, you will be globalized.

:p

Exactly! I don't want to be globalised! I want to be left alone!

Exactly! I don't want to be globalised! I want to be left alone!Ah yes. Nothing says "globalisation critic" quite like unquestioningly supporting the US...

I'll die fighting the Chinese or the Muslims. Whichever comes first.

Sssshhhh - nobody tell Mr Potato that there are some Chinese who are Muslim...

And what a tragedy that would be. Of course that would presume that your Mother lets you out on the day in question.

He'd have to do his homework first.

Sssshhhh - nobody tell Mr Potato that there are some Chinese who are Muslim...

I am aware of the Hui and the like.

I'd rather die than be a slave to China or the Muslims.

errrr...whut ?:confused:

Do you understand multipolar? Meaning MANY poles?

Like the US, EU, Russia, China, India, Brazil, ASEAN, etc ?

errrr...whut ?:confused:

Do you understand multipolar? Meaning MANY poles?

Like the US, EU, Russia, China, India, Brazil, ASEAN, etc ?

The world won't be multipolar. It'll be China and India bullying around everyone else. Like the Cold War, except with two bad guys.

The world won't be multipolar. It'll be China and India bullying around everyone else. Like the Cold War, except with two bad guys.

So, the difference to now is that there just will be one more bully on the playground?

The world won't be multipolar. It'll be China and India bullying around everyone else. Like the Cold War, except with two bad guys.

lol...

Be scared everybody....us Indians are going to take over the world with our fearsome call centre army. Throw away your cellphones while you can still do it...

lol...

Be scared everybody....us Indians are going to take over the world with our fearsome call centre army. Throw away your cellphones while you can still do it...

Well, at least there'll be a future for us call centre admins :D

So, the difference to now is that there just will be one more bully on the playground?

If you think the US is a bully, you ain't seen anything yet.

If you think the US is a bully, you ain't seen anything yet.

Seeing as the 'infinite number of monkeys and typrewriters' theory is apparently not valid, theres every chance you can go on making observations and comments of no value whatsover without any risk of fluking out of your losing streak. Of course sooner or later you may fall off the high chair, or go out to stick your tongue out at girls......

If you think the US is a bully, you ain't seen anything yet.

Oh, but you have, then? In your decades in the labour market, in your intense study of economic, cultural and social developments of the global marketplace?

Oh, but you have, then? In your decades in the labour market, in your intense study of economic, cultural and social developments of the global marketplace?

Believe me, China will be a much, much worse bully than the United States ever was or ever will be.

Believe me, China will be a much, much worse bully than the United States ever was or ever will be.

Ah, right, your OTHER kind of racism. Just like the one against Muslims: baseless, tasteless, hapless, clueless and pointless.

Ah, right, your OTHER kind of racism. Just like the one against Muslims: baseless, tasteless, hapless, clueless and pointless.

I have no problem with Chinese people. It's their government that's insane.

Exactly! I don't want to be globalised! I want to be left alone!

Liar. You just stated you wanted American dominance throughout the world. That's not "Want to be left alone".

Obviously, Italy would make the best world leader. You need a country that's modest, and not full of itself. Sure, there'd be a bit of internal chaos (they are not known for their impeccable organization), but I could care less if it gets us world peace.

Liar. You just stated you wanted American dominance throughout the world. That's not "Want to be left alone".

No, I said I'm backing the United States to do what they're doing now. As an Australian, that results in countries like China and Iran leaving me alone.

*Pokes The Potato Factory with a pointy stick just for the hell of it*

No, I said I'm backing the United States to do what they're doing now. As an Australian, that results in countries like China and Iran leaving me alone.

Okay, you can keep your hate to yourself, I'll keep Zhang Ziyi pictures to myself.

No, I said I'm backing the United States to do what they're doing now. As an Australian, that results in countries like China and Iran leaving me alone.

Then you're dumber than you think.

Unless Australia's producing everything locally, China has a hand in things with Australia, just not a fist like American dictates.

And why the heck are you on an international forum if you want to be left alone?

The world won't be multipolar. It'll be China and India bullying around everyone else. Like the Cold War, except with two bad guys.

The bolded statement contradict the underscored statement.

If China AND India dominate, it WILL BE multipolar.

Look, the government wont catch terrorists, who dont play by the rules, by playing by the rules. Confused? Well counter terrorism units have to get down and dirty (Not in a sexual way;)) to catch these pigs. The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this.

Look, the government wont catch terrorists, who dont play by the rules, by playing by the rules. Confused? Well counter terrorism units have to get down and dirty (Not in a sexual way;)) to catch these pigs. The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this, as long as it may have some effect on national security.

Look, the government wont catch terrorists, who dont play by the rules, by playing by the rules. Confused? Well counter terrorism units have to get down and dirty (Not in a sexual way;)) to catch these pigs. The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this, as long as it may have some effect on national security.

How can we say that we're better then them if we sink to their level?

How can we say that we're better then them if we sink to their level?
No human being is truly better than another. But really can we catch these people by playing nice?

No human being is truly better than another. But really can we catch these people by playing nice?

But we can hold ourselves to higher standards.

Look, the government wont catch terrorists, who dont play by the rules, by playing by the rules. Confused? Well counter terrorism units have to get down and dirty (Not in a sexual way;)) to catch these pigs. The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this, as long as it may have some effect on national security.
So, two wrongs make a right then?

I'll die fighting the Chinese or the Muslims. Whichever comes first.

If you are saying that India and China would take over if America wasn't a superpower anymore, why would you be fighting the MUSLIMS and chinese as India is predominantly Hindi? I mean I know it's a small drop in the sea of insanity that you have created so far but would it not be easier to refer to them as the INDIANS and Chinese?

Look, the government wont catch terrorists, who dont play by the rules, by playing by the rules. Confused? Well counter terrorism units have to get down and dirty (Not in a sexual way;)) to catch these pigs. The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this, as long as it may have some effect on national security.

Actually playing dirty doesnt help. It might help you capture of kill some more terroist or prehaps divert an attack but that's it. You can only divert attacks for so long, eventually one will get through your net. You can't defeat terroism by killing terroists, you have to kill the ideology, terroism exsists only because it has support. Dirty tactics will only increase that support, not decrease it.
The British tried dirty attacks to break the IRA, the bloody sundays are evidence of that brutal approach, but in the end we are approaching a peace deal because both sides ended up talking, because the two communities stopped supporting the violence.There is an awful lot of secterianism in the estates and the paramilitaires have a lot of control but the IRA has decomisioned and the UDA is on the brink of decomisioning. Both communites no longer support a campaign of terroism to acheive their ends . I believe that peace is the only way forward now, it might take a while, but I dont think we will (and truely hope we wont) go back to violence.

US Interrogates Terror Suspects in Ethiopian Jails

Terror suspects have been questioned by US officials in Ethiopia after being transferred from Somalia and Kenya. The captives included Europeans who were detained, interrogated and then released without charge.

The CIA's system of unlawful kidnappings of terrorist suspects known as "extraordinary renditions" appears to have been extended to the Horn of Africa. New cases have emerged of the transfer of terror suspects to prisons in third countries, where they have been questioned and allegedly mistreated -- this time in East Africa. In total more than 100 terror suspects are thought to have been arrested in Somalia and Kenya and transferred to Ethiopia to face interrogation by US officials.
(...)
The government in Washington confirmed to DER SPIEGEL that "in the past few months a number of prisoners have been questioned in Ethiopia." Up to 200 agents of the CIA and FBI are thought to be currently based in Addis Ababa.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487893,00.html

Will you U.S.-American citizens please get a hold of your damn government and make them stop behaving like fucking fascists all over the world?
This is really pissing me off to no end. I'm so sick and tired of this bullshit you wouldn't believe it!
Make them follow the damn laws your country has. Accept that there is a world outside of the borders of your precious country and that its population only makes up a fraction of humans on this world. And make them stop behaving like assholes, all in the name of "democracy" and "freedom". Fuck that! If that is what you consider freedom, I want none of it.

That in combination with this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,488026,00.html

Judges Say US Can't Hold Man as 'Combatant'
A federal appeals court ruled that the president may not declare civilians in this country "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely.
Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, 37, seen in a May 2003 handout photo from the Peoria, Ill., County Sheriff's Department.
The federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., ruled yesterday that the president may not declare civilians in this country to be "enemy combatants" and have the military hold them indefinitely. The ruling was a stinging rejection of one of the Bush administration's central assertions about the scope of executive authority to combat terrorism.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487813,00.html

SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH AMERICA'S SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
US Plans New Travel Restrictions for Europeans
Michael Chertoff, 53, discusses the dispute between US terror investigators and EU privacy regulators about the use of passenger data and an extremely controversial proposal that would require Europeans to register online two days before traveling to America.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,487325,00.html

NEW REPORT CITES PROOF OF CIA BLACK SITES
'Massive and Systematic Violations' of Human Rights'
In his second report for the Council of Europe, special investigator Dick Marty will say that he has "enough evidence to state" that the CIA operated secret prisons in Poland and Romania. SPIEGEL ONLINE has obtained a copy of the report, which is due for release this afternoon. It documents a "series of illegal acts" on the part of the CIA.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486182,00.html

MARINES ON TRIAL FOR HADITHA MURDERS
Massacre for a Fallen Comrade?
The first verdicts are expected to be handed down soon in a trial that has shocked the United States. The defendants are seven Marines, three of them charged with executing 24 civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha. The massacre was one of the greatest setbacks in the Americans' battle for hearts and minds in Iraq.

and this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,486135,00.html
OPINION
The Emperor's Green Clothes
In presenting his own proposal to deal with greenhouse gas emissions just days before next week's G-8 summit, Bush is trying to look like a leader on climate change in the hope of outmaneuvering Europe and his critics. But his plan is purposely vague and his ideas stale.

Go ask yourself what your country has come to and whether this is really the path you want to be travelling in the future. I really expected more from the United States, although, looking back, I don't really know why anymore.

And some still wonder why the U.S. has such a bad repuation on this here our little blue planet? Hah!

Whoa...

(Checks advisory system)

HE'S GONNA BLOW! TAKE COVER!

I've gotten that feeling all too often lately...

I pray for a quick regime change inside the US :)

Dream on. I seriously doubt that much will change under a Democratic President, other than the words.

God, I read a huge article in a March issue of the New Yorker today about how the Iraqis working with and for the Americans inside Iraq are treated - and it really soured my mood today. The willful and arrogant ignorance in the top levels of the American government is simply breathtaking.
I've gotten that feeling all too often lately...

I pray for a quick regime change inside the US :)

The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this.

Make it.

Dream on. I seriously doubt that much will change under a Democratic President, other than the words.

Regime change doesn't have to mean a Democratic President ;) If you get Really lucky, you'll get a communist :o Then we will know you have changed.

For sure.

For my part as an American,

sorry, guys.

If you are saying that India and China would take over if America wasn't a superpower anymore, why would you be fighting the MUSLIMS and chinese as India is predominantly Hindi? I mean I know it's a small drop in the sea of insanity that you have created so far but would it not be easier to refer to them as the INDIANS and Chinese?

In his pecking order of xenophobia, Indians are in the bottom. ;)

It goes like

muslims
chinese
..
..
indians

Indeed.
You could also have included things like alienating the friendlies in Afghanistan...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6705607.stm
Yeah. Sadly, all too true.
No one else is doing it because it's wrong.
Not a difficult concept to grasp.
With some people, apparently it is. :(
Terrorist suspect =/= Terrorist.

There's a difference, chief.
I might add: Terrorist suspect =/= Terrorist =/= Tourist

Don't treat me like a damn criminal when I'm on vacation.:mad:
I for one await the day the rest of the world has enough of America acting like the schoolyard bully and stand up to it, no doubt revealing it to be as much a coward as any other bully.
I doubt that day will come. The sad part is, the bully is far from graduating and reaching maturity...
Couple of points to consider...

1. Those of us here in the states that oppose this administration are handicapped by our belief in the rule of law in that we are bound by that belief to work within the law to expose and punish the crimes of this administration. Unfortunately, this administration does not have to abide by the law since it considers itself above the law and lies, bribes and takes whatever it deems necessary to further it's own ends. We have seen this over and over again; 'Scooter' Libby is convicted while the man (Dick Cheney) who was behind the whole Plame exposure goes free, Ken Lay is slapped on the wrist for the grossest corporate malfeisance ever recorded while Martha Stewart is thrown in jail after the speediest trial in history for insider trading (she just didn't have Kenny-boy's connections) and now the same thing is going on with Alberto "I can't hear you because my head is too far up Dubya's ass" Gonzalez.

2. Torture is not effective. This has been shown repeatedly during the course of history from the Inquisition to the Salem witch trials to Franco's regime and Stalin's dictatorship. Hurt someone enough and s/he will say whatever you want said. No trustworthy information can be gathered through the use of torture. Even the CIA and FBI agree on this.

3. Do you seriously think the American public likes what this administration has done to our reputation overseas? Bush and his cronies have taken a nation of people who have never, in recorded history, attacked another country without provocation and emboiled us in a war of choice with a country that, not only did not attack us, represented no possible threat to us. We realize this has destroyed our credibility and fueled world hostility against us. The general American public sees America as the knight in shining armour and knowing that we have become actively hated by those who used to be our friends saddens and sickens us. We are trying to put things to rights but our very beliefs hamper us. (Please refer to point #1)
Thank you for that contribution. ;)
My thoughts exactly.
Cool. Then I need to remember that. :D
God, I read a huge article in a March issue of the New Yorker today about how the Iraqis working with and for the Americans inside Iraq are treated - and it really soured my mood today. The willful and arrogant ignorance in the top levels of the American government is simply breathtaking.
If you see how they treat their own soldiers - and their prisoners... I sadly enough didn't expect much else.
Look at how they've treated the Vietnamese people.
If Al Queda jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?
Or a slightly lower bridge, cause you know, you're not as bad...
Nice imagery you've used there.
Zing!
Burn the witch! (No? Aw...)
No time like the present. Honestly, they're not listening to us. They didn't listen to us when we staged the largest protest in history, they didn't listen to us when we changed the make up of the legislature, they're not listening to us. It's time for the rest of the reasoned world to turn their backs on the US. Certainly a hard blow for me since I'm in the US, but I don't know that there is any other way to let it sink in. If any other nation with less influence was behaving this way there'd be ships outside its borders preventing trade. I'm not saying that could be possible in this case, but it's time to start severing ties and finding alternatives to dealing with us. And that's happening because we've of late proven unreliable, but now it has to happen in a more dramatic fashion so it's known that the world is not our plaything and that we live in a global community and need to act accordingly.

We slept too long, we're sorry. Do what you have to do.
General strike. It always works.
Thats fine, as long as you ignore the admittedly biased sources such as spiegel, and the new york times. You're just giving one side of the story. If you want to post new york times, you might as well post fox news for the equally biased opposite side.
I you honestly believe that you can post a valuable faux news article that contradicts them... Feel free to contribute.
just as soon as you tell the fucking crazies to stop cuffing people and tossing them off roofs...or flying planes into buildings full of innocents and stop them from blowing up delis full of children...you cant have it both ways..villafy the u.s. and ignore the even more heinous acts of the fanatics.
Last time I checked the crazy people cuffing people and kidnapping them were the US, all in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". And don't you tell me that because one side commits hideous acts it's okay to do likewise?
And I do recall the US having a history of throwing people out of helicopters over the jungles of Vietnam, no?
Or bombing civilian targets in Afghanistan and killing innocent children?
i know you took the hate the us drug this morning,but take off the beer goggles and look at the shit the other side does..in what name..in the name of god...you have to admit if you have a brain,killing innocents for the cause..no matter how much you hate the us,is not relevant here... jeez...wtf..so you dont like bush...boohoo..neither do i..but wtf man,these people are not people..they are despicable animals,and asshats like you justifying there atrocities is not going to stop the violence...only increase it twit, the us is a big bad demon..ok...so what do you do...kill innocents to justify our responce..we will respond like any rational person would to the innocent deaths of people. this makes me think about something,say al quida sets off a nuke in america...ok...made there point...i feel sorry for the millions,and i mean millions of innocent arabs and mis identified indians...they will be butchered by an angry populace...quite possibly deranged from anger.does that help the fellow muslims? no i t does not..but it does help their cause..it grows recruits....get the bigger picture about terrorism..it has nothing to do with the cause..it is like a political party getting more voters. i myself wont kill kids to get votes...but they do...have your disdain for america all you want..but dont be fooled into the idea these fuckers are freedom fighters..they aint..same old song with a few new lines
I don't know what kind of drugs you took this morning, but they sure make you babble a lot of noncoherent stuff. Nice rant!

Ever wonder why those guys are so pissed off at you, huh?

And it's really sad what kind of picture you're painting of the American public.

And you're saying I hate America? I like you guys, but you're really heading in the wrong direction, and as a concerned friend and citizen of an allied nation it is my duty to tell you so and remind you that what you guys are doing is wrong on many, many levels!
http://www.catfocused.com/images/imgCCpllling-cat-meds.jpg

I took ur medicinz

I is srry
Hey. Where is my cat picture?
We are the World, lower your tariffs and prepare for competition
Your economic and cultural distinctiveness will be added to the collective.
Resistance is futile, you will be globalized.
:p
Too bad that the US won't even open their borders for what would be the real globalization process.
well anyone who stands up to the government in one way or another,will be ignored or arrested.people from other countries seem to think that because our shitty government does something that you don't like we can change it.sorry pal the big wigs are the ones that make the decisions not us.the only thing we vote on is who goes into office.ya know not all americans are the monsters that the rest of the world see us as.it's the government & all the people you see on tv.not the common citizen,who mostly are having their freedoms trampled by the patriot act.yea i'd love to be president & change shit,but i have 9 years before i could even try.the biggest thing that pisses me off is that we send all kinds of aid (food,etc) to other countries that are ingrates & talk all kinds of shit about us. i think the us should say fuck the rest of the world & take care of the problems at home.if everyone hates us,who cares.countries are always asking for help but as soon as they get it ,they are all anti-american.yea i really wish we would just let everyone else to rot.when all these other countries are having civil wars & all kinds of other problems ,they should take care of it themselves.everyone has their own government,economy & law enforcement.so instead of asking for help maybe they should learn how to run their own country.the us needs to forget about the rest of the world & worry about it's own.
Paragraphs might really help make that readable. And I expected more from the true son of Russ. By the Emperor!
Whoa...

(Checks advisory system)

HE'S GONNA BLOW! TAKE COVER!
It might be too late for that now.

Remember, kids, when you see the flash: Duck and cover!
For my part as an American,
sorry, guys.
Okily dokily!

It might be too late for that now.

Remember, kids, when you see the flash: Duck and cover!

Having an idiot problem must suck. There are a lot of idiots out there.

In his pecking order of xenophobia, Indians are in the bottom. ;)

It goes like

muslims
chinese
..
..
indians

Ahh. Even following his flawed Logic of America being the best country as a world leader I dont quite get his understanding of why he would be so against India become a world power. I thought the one of the reason they gained nuclear weapons was down to America supporting or at least not being concerned about them gaining them. Surely it follows than that if America is the best nation to be the main superpower, then a nation that the US supports is the next best option?

Look, the government wont catch terrorists, who dont play by the rules, by playing by the rules. Confused? Well counter terrorism units have to get down and dirty (Not in a sexual way;)) to catch these pigs. The media should keep its liberal mouth shut when it comes to stuff like this, as long as it may have some effect on national security.

TORTURE DOESN'T WORK!!!!!!!!!11!! Number one, most people would say anything to make pain stop. Anything. Why the hell do you think so many people confessed to being witches or heretics during the Inquisition? hint: It's not because they actually were witches or heretics. They just said so to make the rack stop dislocationg their shoulders!

Number two, if we start torturing terror suspects, it's just going to make real terrorists feel justified torturing our people! How the hell can we claim the moral high ground if we do the same things we tell others not to do?

Having an idiot problem must suck. There are a lot of idiots out there.
It's a lot better than an anger problem, though. Blame the idiots. ;)

And it's way better for my blood pressure, too!
TORTURE DOESN'T WORK!!!!!!!!!11!! Number one, most people would say anything to make pain stop. Anything. Why the hell do you think so many people confessed to being witches or heretics during the Inquisition? hint: It's not because they actually were witches or heretics. They just said so to make the rack stop dislocationg their shoulders!

Number two, if we start torturing terror suspects, it's just going to make real terrorists feel justified torturing our people! How the hell can we claim the moral high ground if we do the same things we tell others not to do?
I can only agree and find it sad really that some people have not left the Dark Ages although they should know better.

I can only agree and find it sad really that some people have not left the Dark Ages although they should know better.

Torturing someone does give you a feeling of power. People will always assume as well that pain will make you talkative. Also that they "deserve it".

It's a lot better than an anger problem, though. Blame the idiots. ;)

And it's way better for my blood pressure, too!

You'll have to face it more often, though.

Thumbs up, Nachtmar.