NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi folks, what is your idea how to treat citizens with extreme political opinions?
Just a definition. Think of your nation has a constitution where the civil rights are manifested. Unfortunately there are some guys (and girls) that do not accept the constitution but make war on it either by political programmes (e.g. in a political party) or by violence in public. These are extremists. Everyone may imagine having some neo-nazi groups in a nation.
And here is the question: Do you think these groups should have the same rights like others that do accept constitution?

They should kill all extremists.


BOOM BOOM!

Hi folks, what is your idea how to treat citizens with extreme political opinions?
Just a definition. Think of your nation has a constitution where the civil rights are manifested. Unfortunately there are some guys (and girls) that do not accept the constitution but make war on it either by political programmes (e.g. in a political party) or by violence in public. These are extremists. Everyone may imagine having some neo-nazi groups in a nation.
And here is the question: Do you think these groups should have the same rights like others that do accept constitution?
Human rights, yes. Rights guaranteed in the constitution they themselves reject, no.

Yes, I see. I have my problems with applying all rights to them as they do not to others. But here is the philosophic question again: Is a nation free and equal if it gives the same rights to anyone or are there conditions to get some rights?

But would that way not lead to the question: If they only reject some of the human rights or civil rights, do they will get at least the others?

Hi folks, what is your idea how to treat citizens with extreme political opinions?
Just a definition. Think of your nation has a constitution where the civil rights are manifested. Unfortunately there are some guys (and girls) that do not accept the constitution but make war on it either by political programmes (e.g. in a political party) or by violence in public. These are extremists. Everyone may imagine having some neo-nazi groups in a nation.
And here is the question: Do you think these groups should have the same rights like others that do accept constitution?

I don't see the problem with people questioning and disagreeing with a countries laws, etc even if they disagree with the civil rights laid down

And here is the question: Do you think these groups should have the same rights like others that do accept constitution?
All citizens should be entitled to equal treatment under the law.

If an individual breaks the law, their personal ideology does not excuse their behavior. For instance, if a neo-Nazi burns a cross, gets busted, and then claims they don't recognize the Constitution, then that's just TS for them. They don't have any "Constitutional right" to break the laws that we all live under. They get to play by the same rules as everybody else.

if they don't use violence and don't do anything illegal they shouldn't be stopped. It shouldn't be a crime to have extreme opinions and it only works counterproductive, extremists love to be the underdog.

and if they do use violence or illegal stuff, use it to the full effect, not only to put them in jail, but also use it as propaganda against their ideas.

All citizens should be entitled to equal treatment under the law.

If an individual breaks the law, their personal ideology does not excuse their behavior. For instance, if a neo-Nazi burns a cross, gets busted, and then claims they don't recognize the Constitution, then that's just TS for them. They don't have any "Constitutional right" to break the laws that we all live under. They get to play by the same rules as everybody else.
What's TS?

What's TS?

Tough Shit

They can hold extreme opinions, that's one of the rights of free speech, but they can't use those opinions to harm others or violate the law. Once they do that, they are nothing more than common criminals and should be treated accordingly.

sometimes the only way to deal with extreme people is through extreme means.

I kind of hate them and want to beat them up with my nunchuks.

Deport them all in a global programme to isolate extremists. We would ship them to a place where they could run their own little nation. The only catch is, they'd have to get rid of the other extremist first... battle royale style!

The same thing you do with anyone else you don't agree with.




Nothing.

Karlsson på taket = Karlsson-on-the-roof.

Deport them all in a global programme to isolate extremists. We would ship them to a place where they could run their own little nation. The only catch is, they'd have to get rid of the other extremist first... battle royale style!

Wouldn't that just create a nation of extremist combat veterans? That just seems like a really bad idea...

If that doesnt work, revoke their civil rights and shoot them, along with their family.

It would be a bit extreme to do anything too extreme to extremists... :p

you deal with extremists by having clear laws about what is and is not allowed.

its FINE to think that the government should be overthrown and replaced with some kind of anarchic system, for example. its FINE to write books about it, give speeches, and do whatever might convince others that its the right way to think

its NOT fine to plot to overthrow the government, incite riots, conspire to kill public officials or anything else one might think of to acheive these goals non-democratically.

its NOT fine to plot to overthrow the government, incite riots, conspire to kill public officials or anything else one might think of to acheive these goals non-democratically.

Except on the NS roleplaying forum. ;)

Hi folks, what is your idea how to treat citizens with extreme political opinions?
Just a definition. Think of your nation has a constitution where the civil rights are manifested. Unfortunately there are some guys (and girls) that do not accept the constitution but make war on it either by political programmes (e.g. in a political party) or by violence in public. These are extremists. Everyone may imagine having some neo-nazi groups in a nation.
And here is the question: Do you think these groups should have the same rights like others that do accept constitution?

As long as they are not acting on their violent screeds, they should be legal.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep an eye on them, but they should be allowed to stand on street corners and be obnoxious.

One thing I think a lot of Europeans don't understand about the American First Amendment is that it gives the extreme idiots a chance to be publicly discredited on their own. Most Americans aren't so stupid as to believe what the street corner neo-Nazi says.

Take them to school.

If that doesnt work, revoke their civil rights and shoot them, along with their family.

cover their feet in dog food and let the dogs lick them until they surrender theyre belief..... or put them on a boat and send them on a round the world voyage so they can open theyre narrow minds to the rest of the world.

peace.

Take them to school.

If that doesnt work, revoke their civil rights and shoot them, along with their family.

How extreme of you.


*takes to school*

Except on the NS roleplaying forum. ;)

surely even there it has negative reprocussions.

If the extremists reach the point of actually acting out in a violent manner to deny legal rights to others, then the state has every right to slap them down.

To put it another way, the American Nazi Party can print leaflets, make web pages, and have all the rallies they want. Physically assault someone, and they have crossed the line.

Deport them all in a global programme to isolate extremists. We would ship them to a place where they could run their own little nation. The only catch is, they'd have to get rid of the other extremist first... battle royale style!

Of course, given their own nation, either the various extremists would fight each other to the death, with one extreme group reigning supreme, or they would band together and combat the system that tossed them out. Probably the former, and my money right now is on the Islamic extremists. And frankly, we can just give them the Middle East once we shake our ludicrous dependence on foreign oil...

Frankly, as for extremists, those who would lash out at the system but have not yet done so should be subjected to treatment that forcibly alters their mindset...I'm picturing what they did in "A Clockwork Orange." These days, they can do that woth lobotomies, which now don't leave people in vegetative states. Those who actually commit crimes should be dealt with according to the law, but those who are simply very likely to do something like this should get "the treatment."

That or be abandoned on an island somewhere and filmed as a reality show. I'll settle for either.

In my slightly druken state, i find it amusing you give neo-nazis as an idea, when communism is far worse ;p

But in any case, all should fall under equal values under the law, anyone messes up.. they all get the same punishment regardless.

Deport them all in a global programme to isolate extremists. We would ship them to a place where they could run their own little nation. The only catch is, they'd have to get rid of the other extremist first... battle royale style!

Sealand?

Of course, given their own nation, either the various extremists would fight each other to the death, with one extreme group reigning supreme, or they would band together and combat the system that tossed them out. Probably the former, and my money right now is on the Islamic extremists. And frankly, we can just give them the Middle East once we shake our ludicrous dependence on foreign oil...

Frankly, as for extremists, those who would lash out at the system but have not yet done so should be subjected to treatment that forcibly alters their mindset...I'm picturing what they did in "A Clockwork Orange." These days, they can do that woth lobotomies, which now don't leave people in vegetative states. Those who actually commit crimes should be dealt with according to the law, but those who are simply very likely to do something like this should get "the treatment."

That or be abandoned on an island somewhere and filmed as a reality show. I'll settle for either.

Some pretty extreme ideas there. I take it you're volunteering for a lobotomy.

That or be abandoned on an island somewhere and filmed as a reality show. I'll settle for either.

OH GOD NOT THAT! You sick twisted individual. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment! That sort of punishment is reserved for attention whores only!

Depends on their legal status. If they're citizens then there's not much we can do about them if they haven't committed criminal acts. Otherwise I think it would go too much against the principle of free speech (Though there are always limits, such as the incitement of violence). If they're not legal citizens then I think the government shouldn't hesitate to deport them, regardless of the treatment they face at home. That's one thing I think this country does wrong, we protect a lot of foreign extremists by not deporting them because they may face torture.

One thing I think a lot of Europeans don't understand about the American First Amendment is that it gives the extreme idiots a chance to be publicly discredited on their own. Most Americans aren't so stupid as to believe what the street corner neo-Nazi says.
Legalizing Nazi symbols would be useful since it would make it easier to recognize who the idiots are and make fun of their stupidity. But defamation and threats which is a major part of their politics should never be legalized.

That or be abandoned on an island somewhere and filmed as a reality show. I'll settle for either.
Even though I despise "reality" TV it would be cool with a show where they paint racists in the skin color they hate and follow how they and their racist friends adjust to that situation.

All citizens should be entitled to equal treatment under the law.

If an individual breaks the law, their personal ideology does not excuse their behavior. For instance, if a neo-Nazi burns a cross, gets busted, and then claims they don't recognize the Constitution, then that's just TS for them. They don't have any "Constitutional right" to break the laws that we all live under. They get to play by the same rules as everybody else.
Indeed. I second this post.

One thing I think a lot of Europeans don't understand about the American First Amendment is that it gives the extreme idiots a chance to be publicly discredited on their own. Most Americans aren't so stupid as to believe what the street corner neo-Nazi says.

Oh? How do you figure?

Even though I despise "reality" TV it would be cool with a show where they paint racists in the skin color they hate and follow how they and their racist friends adjust to that situation.

What if the racist is anti-semitic, do we circumcise them?

What if the racist is anti-semitic, do we circumcise them?What if the racist is a Jew?

What if the racist is anti-semitic, do we circumcise them?

Better to make them go to yeshiva. Make them learn about the culture they hate. Maybe they will die from apoplexy. We could only hope.

Better to make them go to yeshiva. Make them learn about the culture they hate. Maybe they will die from apoplexy. We could only hope.Encountering Jewishness causes apoplexy?

Encountering Jewishness causes apoplexy?

If they hate it so much then being thrown into sheer Jewishness will maybe leave them twitching on the floor in a bad way...

If they hate it so much then being thrown into sheer Jewishness will maybe leave them twitching on the floor in a bad way...Then shouldn't rather Jews be twitching on the floor in a bad way with all the Jewishness?

Then shouldn't rather Jews be twitching on the floor in a bad way with all the Jewishness?

They'd be twitching because they hate them so much that having to live among the group they despise might make them that way. I don't know if any Jews hate themselves that much so I doubt that would happen.

They'd be twitching because they hate them so much that having to live among the group they despise might make them that way. I don't know if any Jews hate themselves that much so I doubt that would happen.And I thought some of the twitching could already be seen in Jews at the Wailing Wall. Now that's quite extreme.

Extremists are like trolls - if enough people ignore them, hopefully they go away.

They should kill all extremists.


BOOM BOOM!

Too extreme.

An extremist who breaks the law is no different than anyone else who breaks the law.
An extremist who seeks to change the constitution is no different than anyone else who seeks to change the constitution.
Are European constitutions set in stone and unalterable? If not, why should it matter if someone wants to change them?

As an extremist with all of the correct and irrefutable ideas, I believe all moderates should be convinced through rational discourse, and if they remain unconvinced they should be convinced with more stern methods.