NationStates Jolt Archive

So says an independent study group in the UK.

Apparently, the people who go to state sponsored schools, are having their heads filled with ignorant raw tripe, instead of the basics such as math, science, etc.

I've seen the same thing happen here in America. What state you live in, and whether or not you live in an urban, suburban, or rural area has a great effect on your schooling.

If you live in Kansas, the public education will include politically motivated crap like creationism.

If you live in Maryland, the public education will include a great deal of politically motivated crap, and very little of the basics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/11/ncivitas111.xml

And of course, the Education people in the UK are denying it is crap.


The curriculum in state schools in England has been stripped of its content and corrupted by political interference, according to a damning report by an influential, independent think-tank.

It warns of the educational apartheid opening up between the experience of pupils in the state sector and those at independent schools, which have refused to reduce academic content to make way for fashionable causes.


Critics of the ‘21st century’ science GCSEs argue that pupils learn more through practical lab work rather than science based on opinion

No major subject area has escaped the blight of political interference, according to the report published by Civitas.

"The traditional subject areas have been hijacked to promote fashionable causes such as gender awareness, the environment and anti-racism, while teachers are expected to help to achieve the Government's social goals instead of imparting a body of academic knowledge to their students," it says.

The report, The Corruption of the Curriculum, comes as the General Teaching Council, representing the teaching profession in England, calls for the scrapping of all national curriculum tests.

Testing at the ages of seven, 11 and 14 places stress on pupils, teachers and parents, says the council, which wants a return to the previous system under which children did not sit any national exams until the end of compulsory schooling at the age of 16.

Civitas casts doubt on the value of much of what children are now "taught". History has become so divorced from facts and chronology that pupils might learn the new "skills and perspectives" through a work of fiction, such as Lord of the Rings, it says.
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Teenagers studying for GCSEs are being asked to write about the September 11 atrocities using Arab media reports and speeches from Osama bin Laden as sources without balancing material from America, it reveals.

In English, the drive for gender and race equality has led an exam board to produce a list of modern poems from around the world without a single poet from England or Wales being represented.

The new 21st-century science curriculum introduced last September substitutes debates on abortion, genetic engineering and the use of nuclear power for lab work and scientific inquiry, it says.

Designed to make science more popular, the results of a study show it has had the opposite effect, with pupils less interested in the subject and less keen to pursue it in the sixth form than they were under the previous, more fact-based lessons.

Isn't the purpose of public education the political control of childrens' minds? If so, then perhaps this is a success - making mindless drones who believe only what they're told, and are too ignorant of any real science or math or literature to know the difference - not only that, but permanently disinterested in any further study.

Future scientists will be even more likely to come from independent schools because the new GCSE courses will leave state pupils ill-quipped for further study, it says.

Well, I guess the rich won't have their brains washed clean by tripe.

Most comprehensive schools are teaching the new science for examination next year but the vast majority of independent and grammar schools have seized the opportunity to continue to teach biology, chemistry and physics as separate subjects.

Martin Stephen, the High Master of St Paul's, a leading boys' independent school in London, warned of the "terrifying absence of proper science" in the new courses and said his pupils would be taking the International GCSE in the three separate sciences.

Well over half of independent schools have switched to the IGCSE in at least one subject, usually maths or English, because of the more traditional content and absence of coursework. But the schools were punished in last year's league tables because it was not recognised by the Government for use in state schools and passes were counted as failures

Oh yes - punish schools for teaching basic science...

Political correctness ruins EVERYTHING. Humor, education, love, happiness, life, etc.

Political correctness murders puppies. And bunnies. And kittens.

Political correctness ruins EVERYTHING. Humor, education, love, happiness, life, etc.

Political correctness murders puppies. And bunnies. And kittens.

Especially the little bunnies.

And remember, every time you teach creationism, a baby is aborted!

My daughter is at a perfectly well run state school. I would rather her learn skills that are going to be useful when she leaves than some of the stuff I was taught

I can count on one hand the times when calculus has helped me out in the real world:rolleyes:

PS the Telegraph is like the Daily Mail but with longer words in it - a bit too right wing and scaremongering for my liking

So, who would you rather have running the powerplant:

Someone who really knew calculus (and thus had a firm grasp of the equations behind the operation of the plant), or:

some numbskull who never took calculus (let alone any nuclear engineering), but was well versed in anti-nuclear propaganda?

My daughter is at a perfectly well run state school. I would rather her learn skills that are going to be useful when she leaves than some of the stuff I was taught

I can count on one hand the times when calculus has helped me out in the real world:rolleyes:

PS the Telegraph is like the Daily Mail but with longer words in it - a bit too right wing and scaremongering for my liking

The think-tank's Civitas.

Case closed.

So, who would you rather have running the powerplant:

Someone who really knew calculus (and thus had a firm grasp of the equations behind the operation of the plant), or:

some numbskull who never took calculus (let alone any nuclear engineering), but was well versed in anti-nuclear propaganda?

Point taken, but we really were taught some useless stuff.

School should be a good brounding for life - college and university for learning how to run powerplants

My daughter is at a perfectly well run state school. I would rather her learn skills that are going to be useful when she leaves than some of the stuff I was taught

I can count on one hand the times when calculus has helped me out in the real world:rolleyes:

PS the Telegraph is like the Daily Mail but with longer words in it - a bit too right wing and scaremongering for my liking

Well if you remembered your calculus you wouldn't still be needing to use your fingers to count...

So, who would you rather have running the powerplant:

Someone who really knew calculus (and thus had a firm grasp of the equations behind the operation of the plant), or:

some numbskull who never took calculus (let alone any nuclear engineering), but was well versed in anti-nuclear propaganda?
...

You are such an uninformed idiot I can't believe it.

For starters, to get into university to do nuclear engineering, you'd need to take AS and A2 Physics, Chemistry, Maths, Further Maths and preferably Advanced / Advanced Further Maths, too, before getting a degree.

At this point, with several years' experience under your belt, you might be able to work in a nuclear power station. That's how it works.

Going to a comprehensive and then to a college or sixth form at a selective school absolutely does not forbid you from undertaking and succeeding at such a thing, and I sure as hell wasn't fed anti-nuclear propaganda when I did my GCSEs, and unless they're been an amazingly fucking large change in that time, that's how it is now.

You get the pros and cons. Like you should be.

Point taken, but we really were taught some useless stuff.

School should be a good brounding for life - college and university for learning how to run powerplants

I would have said childhood should be a good grounding for life, not school

Well if you remembered your calculus you wouldn't still be needing to use your fingers to count...
Dammit, you should be integrating the curve your fingers make when your palm's outstretched!

Well in its defense... political correctness doesn't ruin humor at least. There are so many great things making fun of politically correct people!

Ever heard the Kung Pow Buckaroo Holiday Song? Its politically correct....

what has "giving more practical science classes instead of theoretical science classes" to do with PC? And our schools, which are almost all publicly funded are perfectly ok.

Well if you remembered your calculus you wouldn't still be needing to use your fingers to count...

*raps Rambhutan over the knuckles with my slide rule for being cheeky*

So says an independent study group in the UK.

Apparently, the people who go to state sponsored schools, are having their heads filled with ignorant raw tripe, instead of the basics such as math, science, etc.

*snip for length*

I don't know about the UK, but in the US the people who are most dedicated to removing learning in favor of teaching bogus "debates" are the anti-PC crowd.

They're the ones who want health class to be a non-stop list of lies and misinformation designed to scare kids instead of informing them about anything whatsoever.

They want science class to include the Creationism "debate," even though there is absolutely no scientific debate on the subject at all.

They want social studies classes to include "debates" about whether or not the US should totally be a Christian theocracy because then there would be no crime and stuff.

And so on.

People who claim to be "anti-PC" are usually just jerks who are annoyed that they can't use the n-word whenever they like.

Political correctness is really just about not being a jackass in public spaces, and some extremely entitled white males get bitchy about it because they liked it better back when the women and the non-whites and the poor people knew their place and kept quiet about it.

Teaching children to be respectful is an essential part of education. Teaching kids to knock it off with the racist, sexist, homophobic slurs is important, because they will need social skills if they are going to get anywhere in life.

Well, unless they want to advance through the right-wing political machine, in which case they should be getting home-school brain-washed anyhow and shouldn't be sitting in Ebil Librul Public Schools in the first place.

what has "giving more practical science classes instead of theoretical science classes" to do with PC? And our schools, which are almost all publicly funded are perfectly ok.

Everything the daily mail and telegraph criticise has to do with PC. Cos they say so.

None of that bears any relation to my experiences when I took my GCSEs two years ago, with the exception of science. I don't see how the dumbing down of science counts as 'political correctness'.

*raps Rambhutan over the knuckles with my slide rule for being cheeky*

*ouch*

Point taken, but we really were taught some useless stuff.

School should be a good brounding for life - college and university for learning how to run powerplants You think you were taught some useless stuff? Try taking Geography, all about population graphs and different cultures, we are taught nothing about where things are anymore.
And he is right about science, were made to think about issues more suited to a citizenship or R.E lesson. And on top of all that schools are quite biased and left-leaning. For example in R.E we had to draw a poster about how bad the arms trade is, even those of us that believe there is nothing wrong with the arms trade had to draw the poster.

Everything the daily mail and telegraph criticise has to do with PC. Cos they say so.
Of course, when they say flag burning should be banned, because they find it offensive, it's not PC. It's their right not to be offended. It's the Evil Commie Muslim Liberals who can only be PC.

Well, unless they want to advance through the right-wing political machine, in which case they should be getting home-school brain-washed anyhow and shouldn't be sitting in Ebil Librul Public Schools in the first place.
that's kinda harsh.

People who claim to be "anti-PC" are usually just jerks who are annoyed that they can't use the n-word whenever they like.

Political correctness is really just about not being a jackass in public spaces, and some extremely entitled white males get bitchy about it because they liked it better back when the women and the non-whites and the poor people knew their place and kept quiet about it.


That is a huge, precision-guided load of bullshit. I'm "anti-PC", and I don't particularly feel any desire to say the n-word. The point is, I think it's stupid when we're supposed to treat every different view as valid. I'm sorry, but some views (Global warming is t3h ebil liberal conspiracy! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING TO GET US! THEY'RE TRYING TO TAKE OUR GUNS! ETC!) are just total bullshit. Like, for example, that all anti-political correctness people are overentitled rich racists.

Strawman arguments are frowned upon here. Which you should know by now.

Of course, when they say flag burning should be banned, because they find it offensive, it's not PC. It's their right not to be offended. It's the Evil Commie Muslim Liberals who can only be PC.

Evil Commie Baby-Eating Muslim Liberals.

that's kinda harsh.
How so? There are a lot of people who do this.

I didn't say ALL homeschooling worked that way. It's just that if you want to have total control over what your kids learn, it makes the most sense to home-school them and be in total control of what they're learning.

Some people use that power for good. Some use it for not-so-good.

That is a huge, precision-guided load of bullshit. I'm "anti-PC", and I don't particularly feel any desire to say the n-word. The point is, I think it's stupid when we're supposed to treat every different view as valid. I'm sorry, but some views (Global warming is t3h ebil liberal conspiracy! THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING TO GET US! THEY'RE TRYING TO TAKE OUR GUNS! ETC!) are just total bullshit. Like, for example, that all anti-political correctness people are overentitled rich racists.

None of what you say has anything to do with political correctness. But have fun with that.


Strawman arguments are frowned upon here. Which you should know by now.
You know, if I had a nickel for every time a person around here misused "strawman," I would totally have retired and moved to a private island in the South Pacific.

Everything the daily mail and telegraph criticise has to do with PC. Cos they say so.

I've just been reading the comments thread and I found this gem:

Who the hell is in charge of the classroom shown in the picture - the girls have their long hair loose and there is a lighted Bunsen burner on the bench! None of the students is wearing a lab coat, and one of them has a loose tie ready to catch in the flame. This sort of sloppiness is likely to lead to an accident, but of course it probably isn't politically correct to instruct pupils with long hair to tie it back for safety's sake.

emphasis mine

Evil Commie Baby-Eating Muslim Liberals.
Evil commie Baby-Eating Muslim Liberal Paedophile Liberals.

Evil commie Baby-Eating Muslim Liberal Paedophile Liberals.

Who vote Labour.

How so? There are a lot of people who do this.

I didn't say ALL homeschooling worked that way. It's just that if you want to have total control over what your kids learn, it makes the most sense to home-school them and be in total control of what they're learning.

Some people use that power for good. Some use it for not-so-good.

I don't know any homeschoolers who set out to brainwash their children, you make it sound like some insidious plot. All of the homeschoolers I know do so because they believe it's the very best education their kids can get. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are brainwashed, and just because someone does something outside the "norm" doesn't mean they are evil.

I don't know any homeschoolers who set out to brainwash their children, you make it sound like some insidious plot. All of the homeschoolers I know do so because they believe it's the very best education their kids can get. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are brainwashed, and just because someone does something outside the "norm" doesn't mean they are evil.
I'm glad the people you personally know aren't evil.

However, there is a solid movement in the US that encourages parents to homeschool their children SPECIFICALLY so they can be fed anti-factual lessons. They make no bones about this. They don't even pretend to hide it. Extremely powerful leaders like James Dobson have encouraged their followers to home school their children so that they can be "protected" against science education and accurate historical education. There's at least three well-funded national organizations with "exodus" in their names, all of which advocate removing all kids from public school so they can be taught strictly Biblical information (like that the world is 6000 years old, the USA is a "Christian nation," etc).

Please, folks, read my posts carefully, and keep something in mind: I've got a very good friend who was home-schooled all the way until college. He's an MD/PhD candidate right now. I'm not a flaming moron, and I know it's perfectly possible to home-school kids with great success. So don't derail a thread by accusing me of hating on home-schooling. Read what I actually wrote, and don't try to read between the lines and insert your assumptions about what I must really have meant. I meant what I said. That's it.

None of what you say has anything to do with political correctness. But have fun with that.

Political correctness is supposed to offend no one, so the respect of everyone else's views is included in there. And last time I checked, you do not define words by yourself.


You know, if I had a nickel for every time a person around here misused "strawman," I would totally have retired and moved to a private island in the South Pacific.

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

Wikipedia says you'd be in the poor house.

You're 0 for 2 here.

I'm glad the people you personally know aren't evil.

However, there is a solid movement in the US that encourages parents to homeschool their children SPECIFICALLY so they can be fed anti-factual lessons. They make no bones about this. They don't even pretend to hide it. Extremely powerful leaders like James Dobson have encouraged their followers to home school their children so that they can be "protected" against science education and accurate historical education. There's at least three well-funded national organizations with "exodus" in their names, all of which advocate removing all kids from public school so they can be taught strictly Biblical information (like that the world is 6000 years old, the USA is a "Christian nation," etc).

Please, folks, read my posts carefully, and keep something in mind: I've got a very good friend who was home-schooled all the way until college. He's an MD/PhD candidate right now. I'm not a flaming moron, and I know it's perfectly possible to home-school kids with great success. So don't derail a thread by accusing me of hating on home-schooling. Read what I actually wrote, and don't try to read between the lines and insert your assumptions about what I must really have meant. I meant what I said. That's it.

exodus-a journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment

meh. I don't really care to respond to the rest of it.

exodus-a journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment

meh. I don't really care to respond to the rest of it.

That's about the right way to feel about it. It probably wasn't worth responding to at all, actually.

The environment is a fashionable cause?

exodus-a journey by a large group to escape from a hostile environment

Yes, and completely devoid of any religious connotation what so ever :rolleyes:

Yes, and completely devoid of any religious connotation what so ever :rolleyes:

only if you want it to. Does being a name of a book of the bible make a word "religious"?

genesis?

Anagenesis, also known as "phyletic change," is the evolution of species involving a change in gene frequency in an entire population rather than a cladogenetic branching event. When enough mutations reach fixation in a population to significantly differentiate from an ancestral population, a new species name may be assigned.

hmm.......

numbers?

judges?

kings?

hmm........

only if you want it to.

and are you suggesting that several organizations advocating home schooling for children that contain the word "exodus" in their organization name didn't want it to?

Which is really the point. Yes I know many words in the bible have meanings other than religious connotation. The question is did they intend to have that meaning.

your statement that the word "exodus" can have a different meaning, and thus somehow suggesting that these organizations did not directly and specifically intend to create the implication is quite disingenuous.

Really, it's kind of weak to try and suggest that because words in the bible can have non biblical meanings that organizations specifically advocating home school for religious reasons were not using exodus to invoke religious sentiment. That's Remote Observer level of arguing.

Yes, and completely devoid of any religious connotation what so ever :rolleyes:

It's not just a matter of religion.

My daughter knew calculus by the end of the third grade - no thanks to the school system.
My middle son is on the same track - he's just finishing third grade, and knows calculus.
My youngest son is in first grade - and is on the same track.

The pace of learning is appallingly slow, even in so-called advanced classes here (which compared to the national offerings, are exceptionally good).

Why should I dumb down my kids if I can teach them something? Why should I wait for the school to teach them?

I send mine to public school - and I teach them anything I care to teach them after hours.

I started this because my daughter complained of being incredibly bored at school - and after consulting teachers, they said they could do nothing to make it more interesting.

I'm not homeschooling - but I would if I could afford to stay home.

I get it - you guys are against homeschooling because you don't want anyone to get an "unfair" advantage - you want to find new and creative ways to celebrate mediocrity in our society.

and are you suggesting that several organizations advocating home schooling for children that contain the word "exodus" in their organization name didn't want it to?

Which is really the point. Yes I know many words in the bible have meanings other than religious connotation. The question is did they intend to have that meaning.

your statement that the word "exodus" can have a different meaning, and thus somehow suggesting that these organizations did not directly and specifically intend to create the implication is quite disingenuous.

Really, it's kind of weak to try and suggest that because words in the bible can have non biblical meanings that organizations specifically advocating home school for religious reasons were not using exodus to invoke religious sentiment. That's Remote Observer level of arguing.

that was mean. I didn't say any of that stuff that you said

all I said was what exodus means.

that's all.

you are mean today.

*steals your chocolate*

every time you teach creationism, a baby is aborted!

Can I make this into a T-Shirt?

that was mean. I didn't say any of that stuff that you said

all I said was what exodus means.

that's all.

Actually you gave one of the meanings. The other is obviously of religions implication. It's the question of which meaning they were trying to utilize.

You think you were taught some useless stuff? Try taking Geography, all about population graphs and different cultures, we are taught nothing about where things are anymore.
I took Geography. I did.

And he is right about science, were made to think about issues more suited to a citizenship or R.E lesson.
Apart from GM ethics at A-Level, I can't say that's happened to me this year or the last.

And on top of all that schools are quite biased and left-leaning. For example in R.E we had to draw a poster about how bad the arms trade is, even those of us that believe there is nothing wrong with the arms trade had to draw the poster.
Nor this.

Just to put anecdotes in perspective.

It's not just a matter of religion.

My daughter knew calculus by the end of the third grade - no thanks to the school system.
My middle son is on the same track - he's just finishing third grade, and knows calculus.
My youngest son is in first grade - and is on the same track.

uh huh, and you did this all while being a lawyer, in the military, and wife swapping.

Can I make this into a T-Shirt?

Go to CafePress, and get a t-shirt, coffee mug, and poster...

Actually you gave one of the meanings. The other is obviously of religions implication. It's the question of which meaning they were trying to utilize.

I was trying to be half assed. Can't a girl put forth an entirely lazy argument without being called out?

didn't you see my "meh"?!

*gives you back a portion of your chocolate*

uh huh, and you did this all while being a lawyer, in the military, and wife swapping.

Sure did. I can't help it if you can't teach what I consider to be basic math to your children.

I was trying to be half assed. Can't a girl put forth an entirely lazy argument without being called out?

didn't you see my "meh"?!

*gives you back a portion of your chocolate*

well......ok

*eats chocolate*

The closest thing I have to a child is a cat. If you want to try and teach it math, be my guess.

Of course this is you we're talking about, so after a week you'll probably be on here saying that you not only taught it math, but advanced physics as well, and built a rocket ship which you flew to the moon in your spare time, all while finishing a new translation of Beowulf

I neutered my own cats - that's about the extent of what I can do with a cat.

Sure did. I can't help it if you can't teach what I consider to be basic math to your children.

The closest thing I have to a child is a cat. If you want to try and teach it math, be my guess.

Of course this is you we're talking about, so after a week you'll probably be on here saying that you not only taught it math, but advanced physics as well, and built a rocket ship which you flew to the moon in your spare time, all while finishing a new translation of Beowulf

hey you know what's even more useful to the general population (kids inclusive) than calculus?

recognizing logical fallacies and learning to think critically.
Maybe you need a lesson in strawman then.

I didn't make a strawman in that thread, despite your insistence.

Sure did. I can't help it if you can't teach what I consider to be basic math to your children.

hey you know what's even more useful to the general population (kids inclusive) than calculus?

recognizing logical fallacies and learning to think critically.

Maybe you need a lesson in strawman then.

I didn't make a strawman in that thread, despite your insistence.

Yay more "Yes you did" "No I didn't"


:rolleyes:

Political correctness pretty much ruins everything. No good has ever come of it or from the liberals who speak it.

Yay more "Yes you did" "No I didn't"


:rolleyes:
Which is an even more childish form of argument... :fluffle:

I think the real thing that ruins public schools is the way they are funded according to land values/tax brackets (I've seen the difference first hand - the difference is night and day).

Oh, and taking control away from local schools and giving it to school boards that aren't closely associated with the school and its challenges.

Parental apathy could be equally as bad but a well run school could make up for that.

Schools should not be political they should teach our children to be good citizens by giving them a solid grounding in history, the electoral process, the way that laws are made, a basic understanding of nature through mathematics and science, an appreciation for public service and volunteerism, an appreciation of and instruction in acheiving self sufficiency through wealth building, scorn for the wicked, lessons of morality, respect for people of different faiths and races so long as they are civilized races and faiths, a healthy respect for beauty through music and art, and improved vocabulary and grammar. We should not be teaching them liberal psychobabble or political correctness.

I neutered my own cats - that's about the extent of what I can do with a cat.

Wait...Personally?

I think the real thing that ruins public schools is the way they are funded according to land values/tax brackets (I've seen the difference first hand - the difference is night and day).

Oh, and taking control away from local schools and giving it to school boards that aren't closely associated with the school and its challenges.

Parental apathy could be equally as bad but a well run school could make up for that.

DC public schools are better funded than Fairfax County Public schools.

Teachers are paid better in DC. Each school received more funds per pupil.

But DC public schools are at the bottom of the list in terms of performance across the US - and Fairfax County Public schools are near the top.

It has less to do with the money spent on schools, and more to do with the parents.

If the parents are losers, then the children are screwed, no matter how much money you spend on their schooling.

And remember, every time you teach creationism, a baby is aborted!

Sucks to be a born again Christian right now.

[QUOTE=Bottle;12756985]
Teaching children to be respectful is an essential part of education. Teaching kids to knock it off with the racist, sexist, homophobic slurs is important, because they will need social skills if they are going to get anywhere in life. QUOTE]

You don't teach a child to be respectful of someone else's cultural background by telling him what is "okay" and what is "not okay" to say around "those people".

In NYC public schools kids are gonna get paid, like $$$ cash money paid, to take standerdized tests!!!!!! For once political corectness didn't ruin it for everyone.

Political correctness is supposed to offend no one


What about racists?Are they not people too?Answering NO would defeat the point of political corectness.Answering YES would defeat the point of political corectness. :headbang:

DC public schools are better funded than Fairfax County Public schools.

Teachers are paid better in DC. Each school received more funds per pupil.

But DC public schools are at the bottom of the list in terms of performance across the US - and Fairfax County Public schools are near the top.

It has less to do with the money spent on schools, and more to do with the parents.

If the parents are losers, then the children are screwed, no matter how much money you spend on their schooling.


nope - it has to do with everything I have said, not just one single thing.

I've been to a public school in a rich area and the quality was way above that of the poor schools I went to (it was like I skipped several grades). You need first hand experience to talk about this stuff. You said your parents were rich so I'm pretty sure you are talking out of your ass.

Hi,
I am a teacher and I know how often a curriculum is changed just to obey either political correctness or (and much often) a modern trend. And, what complicates the whole story, the state gets out of control by introducing some new features into the curriculum. These are (i) each school should have more to decide, especially what will be still in the curricula and what will be excluded, and (ii) the curricula talk about more and more competences instead of themes and facts.
O.k. that sounds nice, doesn't it? But by the way, the state employed hundreds of intelligent persons that were given money for loooking and looking through the curricula just to fix which material is strongly required and which is not that important. Now they are fired and each scholl should do their work with less experience and much fewer time.
And second, the curriculum in maths says: At the end of the ... grade the pupils should be able to think maths logically (!). O.k. I'll take some 90 minutes and teach my pupils thinking logically and then the year is all made up. Great! Filling this nice purpose (thinking logically) with good and interesting stuff where the pupils could learn how to analyze a problem logically is the point of real life. And here is where my experience is needed. I say: this chapter is important to think logically. But why should we teachers re-invent the wheel every year? I would prefer much more time to work with the kids on their problems.

So says an independent study group in the UK.


Civitas. A right wing Rant-tank with 0 credibility. Its main subjects used to be immigration and whinging about Europe. Its trying to run its own school now and attract investors, hence the slagging off of the educational system.
It gets fuck all mention elsewhere but does in there, because laughing boy in charge of Civitas is a regular EU/Immigrant basher for the Telegraph.

Testing at the ages of seven, 11 and 14 places stress on pupils, teachers and parents, says the council, which wants a return to the previous system under which children did not sit any national exams until the end of compulsory schooling at the age of 16.


O NOES!!!!! What the fuck that has to do with "political meddling".

You only sit two public exams here and we do fine thanks very fucking much.....

nope - it has to do with everything I have said, not just one single thing.

I've been to a public school in a rich area and the quality was way above that of the poor schools I went to (it was like I skipped several grades). You need first hand experience to talk about this stuff. You said your parents were rich so I'm pretty sure you are talking out of your ass.

Sorry, I'm not talking out of my ass about the funding difference between DC Public Schools and Fairfax County Public Schools on a per pupil basis or a teacher's pay basis.

What about racists?Are they not people too?Answering NO would defeat the point of political corectness.Answering YES would defeat the point of political corectness. :headbang:

How is it offensive to racists to not like to hear them spout racial slurs?

Political correctness is a paradoxon by definition. There are no correct politics, no reliable polticians and especially no-one who may decide which sight is correct and which is not.
Political correctness is a phrase to emphasize any sentence containing warm air to a nice hot summer night. Of course it is not correct when you change a decision or a law. Because you have only 100% (money, tax ...) and a change is giving to some and taking from others. That is allowed, but saying I like you more than others is incorrect. Was this invented by the British (as they are polite - is that true?) - no - they do have the best humor. Who was it? (Perhaps the Bush-clan. That's because no one may hurt George W any more...)

Sorry, I'm not talking out of my ass about the funding difference between DC Public Schools and Fairfax County Public Schools on a per pupil basis or a teacher's pay basis.

You are either very short-sighted, trolling, or just plain unwilling to look at a problem in a way that will challenge your preconceived notions.

The world isn't so black and white as that DK. Of course the amount of money a school gets can make a huge difference in the quality of schooling. Can the money be there but not do any good with poor management? Yes.

Your arguments are way too shallow DK. After all this time on here, one would think that you'd learn a bit of critical thinking to bolster your arguments. Too bad the better schooling you got never took you in that direction.

You are either very short-sighted, trolling, or just plain unwilling to look at a problem in a way that will challenge your preconceived notions.

The world isn't so black and white as that DK. Of course the amount of money a school gets can make a huge difference in the quality of schooling. Can the money be there but not do any good with poor management? Yes.

Your arguments are way too shallow DK. After all this time on here, one would think that you'd learn a bit of critical thinking to bolster your arguments. Too bad the better schooling you got never took you in that direction.

You said I was talking out of my ass about the school funds.

I wasn't.

The problem in DC is the parents. That's it.

You said I was talking out of my ass about the school funds.

I wasn't.

The problem in DC is the parents. That's it.


Believe what you want. Fail at reading comprehension when it suits you. That is all well and good for your little world view, but the bigger picture is far beyond your grasp it seems.

Believe what you want. Fail at reading comprehension when it suits you. That is all well and good for your little world view, but the bigger picture is far beyond your grasp it seems.

It's now the belief of most of the experts in this area, including a delegation of Fairfax County School administrators who were paid for their advice.

In NYC public schools kids are gonna get paid, like $$$ cash money paid, to take standerdized tests!!!!!! For once political corectness didn't ruin it for everyone.

I got perfect scores on those tests, and I got nothing! :mad:

Civitas. A right wing Rant-tank with 0 credibility. Its main subjects used to be immigration and whinging about Europe. Its trying to run its own school now and attract investors, hence the slagging off of the educational system.
It gets fuck all mention elsewhere but does in there, because laughing boy in charge of Civitas is a regular EU/Immigrant basher for the Telegraph.


The only reason I'd heard of it was because my parents used to read the Telegraph. They thought it 'unbiased'.

It's now the belief of most of the experts in this area, including a delegation of Fairfax County School administrators who were paid for their advice.



Good for them.

Evil Homosexual Commie Baby-Eating Muslim Liberals.

Fixed.

I took Geography. I did.


Apart from GM ethics at A-Level, I can't say that's happened to me this year or the last.


Nor this.

Just to put anecdotes in perspective.

Well it happens in my school, and I'm in year 10 doing my GCSE's.

P.S What the hell is calculus

Well it happens in my school, and I'm in year 10 doing my GCSE's.
Shocker. Didn't really happen in mine.
P.S What the hell is calculus
Maths for people in a higher set than you ;)

Maths for people in a higher set than you As far as im aware set one, the top set the school has had for 3 years, is a high set. I’m going to guess calculus is a group of mathematics. Like algebra, proportion, percentage, number etc

Schools should not be political they should teach our children to be good citizens by giving them a solid grounding in history, the electoral process, the way that laws are made, a basic understanding of nature through mathematics and science, an appreciation for public service and volunteerism, an appreciation of and instruction in acheiving self sufficiency through wealth building, scorn for the wicked, lessons of morality, respect for people of different faiths and races so long as they are civilized races and faiths, a healthy respect for beauty through music and art, and improved vocabulary and grammar. We should not be teaching them liberal psychobabble or political correctness.

Political correctness is in the eye of the beholder, apparently.

You say schools should not be political, but you endorse teaching kids "to be good citizens," "an appreciation for public service," "wealth building," "scorn for the wicked," "lessons of morality," "respect for people of [civilized] faiths and races," and a "healthy respect for beauty."

Your problem isn't that certain subjects shouldn't be taught, but merely that what is being taught doesn't conform 100% to your biases.

So says an independent study group in the UK.

Apparently, the people who go to state sponsored schools, are having their heads filled with ignorant raw tripe, instead of the basics such as math, science, etc.

I've seen the same thing happen here in America. What state you live in, and whether or not you live in an urban, suburban, or rural area has a great effect on your schooling.

If you live in Kansas, the public education will include politically motivated crap like creationism.

If you live in Maryland, the public education will include a great deal of politically motivated crap, and very little of the basics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/11/ncivitas111.xml

And of course, the Education people in the UK are denying it is crap.



Isn't the purpose of public education the political control of childrens' minds? If so, then perhaps this is a success - making mindless drones who believe only what they're told, and are too ignorant of any real science or math or literature to know the difference - not only that, but permanently disinterested in any further study.



Well, I guess the rich won't have their brains washed clean by tripe.



Oh yes - punish schools for teaching basic science...

*yawn*

A group with a political agenda complains that its agenda isn't being fostered in schools.

Political correctness is being used as a label for anything one doesn't like.

No surprises here.

To be perfectly honest - in the UK it's got a pretty decent mix.

University has taught me far more than high school and college did granted - life lessons + educationally.

High school for me was just work work work /sleep etc.

I thank my parents for giving birth to me here, instead of some place such as america.

Though of course, there needs to be improvement in all aspects - but thats the case with life i guess.

Well it happens in my school, and I'm in year 10 doing my GCSE's.

P.S What the hell is calculus
Well, I'm in year 13, doing my A-Levels, and no, it didn't happen to me through GCSEs or A-Levels.

As far as im aware set one, the top set the school has had for 3 years, is a high set. I’m going to guess calculus is a group of mathematics. Like algebra, proportion, percentage, number etc
It's a part of A-Level maths, apparently. I don't do it, thank god.

My daughter is at a perfectly well run state school. I would rather her learn skills that are going to be useful when she leaves than some of the stuff I was taught

I can count on one hand the times when calculus has helped me out in the real world:rolleyes:
I am doing Economics now and I wish I had been given a more thorough grounding in Calculus.

Sure did. I can't help it if you can't teach what I consider to be basic math to your children.

An admission that you are Whispering Legs/Sierra BTHP/Deep Kimchi/Eve Online? WHAT a shocker this is! I just...wow. I'm speechless.

IMO, schools should all be privatized and education should be voluntary.

*braces self for flames*

IMO, schools should all be privatized and education should be voluntary.

*braces self for flames*

What a great idea!

Political Correctness is what is turning western society into one of weakness and frankly, one of womenly men. Manlyness is shunned now, and from what I have seen from my experiances its almost expected that all men be "Sensitive" or compassionate about all things. There are times where sensitivity and compassion are appropriate, but jesus, men should act like men.

So says an independent study group in the UK.

Apparently, the people who go to state sponsored schools, are having their heads filled with ignorant raw tripe, instead of the basics such as math, science, etc.

I've seen the same thing happen here in America. What state you live in, and whether or not you live in an urban, suburban, or rural area has a great effect on your schooling.

If you live in Kansas, the public education will include politically motivated crap like creationism.

If you live in Maryland, the public education will include a great deal of politically motivated crap, and very little of the basics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/11/ncivitas111.xml

And of course, the Education people in the UK are denying it is crap.



Isn't the purpose of public education the political control of childrens' minds? If so, then perhaps this is a success - making mindless drones who believe only what they're told, and are too ignorant of any real science or math or literature to know the difference - not only that, but permanently disinterested in any further study.



Well, I guess the rich won't have their brains washed clean by tripe.



Oh yes - punish schools for teaching basic science...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Political correctness is EVIL. It has no redeeming qualities; it is simply evil stuff.

Political correctness ruins EVERYTHING. Humor, education, love, happiness, life, etc.

Agreed. It should be done away with.

People who claim to be "anti-PC" are usually just jerks who are annoyed that they can't use the n-word whenever they like.

Teaching children to be respectful is an essential part of education. Teaching kids to knock it off with the racist, sexist, homophobic slurs is important, because they will need social skills if they are going to get anywhere in life.

We anti-PC folks are NOT all "jerks who are annoyed that we can't use the n-word whenever we like". We are annoyed about our lives, speech, and THOUGHTS and OPINIONS being dictated, micro-managed, and constantly monitored. We believe in freedom of opinion and thought, and in not being told what to think or what opinions to have. We insist on thinking for ourselves and don't need nor want PC people to do it for us.

We "white males" only get "bitchy" because no matter what we say, how/what we think, how we act, what we do for a living, or what we joke about, we are always called "sexist", "racist", "bigoted", "homophobic", and other uncharitable adjectives by politically correct a--holes who are just obsessed with hating WASP males, we get blamed for all the world's problems when any person capable of thought knows it is NOT all our fault, and we're sick and tired of it and have had all we can stand of it!

Political correctness is really just about not being a jackass in public spaces, and some extremely entitled white males get bitchy about it because they liked it better back when the women and the non-whites and the poor people knew their place and kept quiet about it.

No, political correctness is about vilification, disenfranchisement, and enslavement of white heterosexual males, but the news media doublespeak terms for it are "social justice", "empowerment of women", and "affirmative action". We liked it better back when we weren't vilified by the news media for being white heterosexual males.

Well, unless they want to advance through the right-wing political machine, in which case they should be getting home-school brain-washed anyhow and shouldn't be sitting in Ebil Librul Public Schools in the first place.

Home schooling does NOT equal "brainwashing". The REAL brainwashing is political correctness in the public schools.

Political Correctness is what is turning western society into one of weakness and frankly, one of womenly men. Manlyness is shunned now, and from what I have seen from my experiances its almost expected that all men be "Sensitive" or compassionate about all things. There are times where sensitivity and compassion are appropriate, but jesus, men should act like men.

Yes! Manly men good! Womenly men, bad! *beats chest and howls*

Thank you for your enlightened, and insightful comment.

Yes! Manly men good! Womenly men, bad! *beats chest and howls*

Thank you for your enlightened, and insightful comment.

Yes! I got one! ;)

Nah, I don't believe a bloody word of what I wrote, I was just curious to see if I could flame bait someone. :D


Cheers mate

Yes! I got one! ;)

Nah, I don't believe a bloody word of what I wrote, I was just curious to see if I could flame bait someone. :D


Cheers mate

Christ, and here I thought I'd found a kindred spirit.

Fairy.

What a great idea!

Yes, I agree.

Political Correctness is what is turning western society into one of weakness and frankly, one of womenly men. Manlyness is shunned now, and from what I have seen from my experiances its almost expected that all men be "Sensitive" or compassionate about all things. There are times where sensitivity and compassion are appropriate, but jesus, men should act like men.

Exactly. Men should act like MEN and women should act like WOMEN, not vice versa.

There is nothing wrong with maleness, masculinity, or manliness in men.

Nor with femininity or womanliness in women.

Exactly. Men should act like MEN and women should act like WOMEN, not vice versa.

There is nothing wrong with maleness, masculinity, or manliness.

Exactly. Men should act like MEN and women should act like WOMEN, not vice versa.

There is nothing wrong with maleness, masculinity, or manliness in men.

Nor with femininity or womanliness in women.

Huh? Wha-?

Which is the real Ohshucksiforgotourname??

AAHH!!!! *Runs*

[/POKING_FUN]

Huh? Wha-?

Which is the real Ohshucksiforgotourname??

AAHH!!!! *Runs*

[/POKING_FUN]

Sorry! Double post there!

Exactly. Men should act like MEN and women should act like WOMEN, not vice versa.

There is nothing wrong with maleness, masculinity, or manliness in men.

Nor with femininity or womanliness in women.
I agreed with you, up to a point. This I do not agree with though. Why should men not act more feminine should they be so inclined, or vice-versa for females? Do you think gender roles are carved in stone?

What is "acting feminine" anyhow -- when it comes to being a woman? I never understood that... what is it? Wearing ridiculous shoes? Restrictive clothing? Needing a man in your life to take care of you? Crying at the drop of a hat? What?

That's why when I hear someone saying some man is acting "feminine", I'm confused, cause half the time he isn't acting in any way that I act.

I know I'm pretty late in saying this, but...


This is why the Scottish education system is better.

Exactly. Men should act like MEN and women should act like WOMEN, not vice versa.

There is nothing wrong with maleness, masculinity, or manliness in men.

Nor with femininity or womanliness in women.

And I can't be masculine while also showing sensitivity and compassion?

So, who would you rather have running the powerplant:

Someone who really knew calculus (and thus had a firm grasp of the equations behind the operation of the plant), or:

some numbskull who never took calculus (let alone any nuclear engineering), but was well versed in anti-nuclear propaganda?

You mean just like how you'd rather have a government run by a war-hero (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~nlb/pics/politicians/john-kerry.jpg) or someone who ran a very successful humanitarian project, won a nobel peace, prize, and was so far ahead of the conservation movement that he made Al Gore look out of date (http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,683840,00.jpg), than by someone well versed in anti-government (http://www.senorcafe.com/archives/RWR.jpg) propaganda? (http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/images/George%20W%20Bush.jpg)

Well if you remembered your calculus you wouldn't still be needing to use your fingers to count...

That's not true. Most mathematicians I know can't do simple arithmetic in their heads. Sure they could tell you how to find the inflation adjusted value of that tip if the waitress takes as long to get back with the check as she did with the entree, but he won't be able to tell you what 15% of the bill is now.

And I can't be masculine while also showing sensitivity and compassion?

It has been the experience of the whole human race for thousands of years that you can't simply be one or the other. You have to be both or you end up being neither.

Most of the great tragedies were about men who initially possessed great strength, discipline, and courage, but because they lacked sensitivity and compassion were turned into powerless, craven, desperate outcasts, and eventually corpses.

This lack of understanding is why conservatives in the US picked Bush, the college cheerleader who turned draft-dodger, as the most manly candidate when compared to John McCain and John Kerry. Because being real men those guys also had understanding and compassion as well as assloads of courage and discipline.

Bush has the courage, discipline, strength, and character of a diseased rat. Yet because he has almost as much compassion as the same, people think he is manly. Because they themselves lack any masculinity.

What is "acting feminine" anyhow -- when it comes to being a woman? I never understood that... what is it? Wearing ridiculous shoes? Restrictive clothing? Needing a man in your life to take care of you? Crying at the drop of a hat? What?

That's why when I hear someone saying some man is acting "feminine", I'm confused, cause half the time he isn't acting in any way that I act.
Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

I used to be completely baffled by the "masculine" and "feminine" thing, because I thought that "feminine" meant "acting like a girl/woman." Problem was, as a girl I never really conformed to our culture's stated definition of "feminine."

Then I figured out that it's all just made-up excuses that people use as justification for acting like jerks. Most of it is self-contradictory, too.

For instance, somebody is considered "feminine" if they are overly emotional. However, uncontrolled rage and lust (which, if you'll note, are EMOTIONS) are considered "masculine." Real men can't help but be horny, violent beasts, remember? But it's "feminine" to be "emotional" and "irrational." Except if you're being emotional and irrational due to manly rage or lust. In which case it's feminine to NOT be emotional, you faggot!

Point taken, but we really were taught some useless stuff.

School should be a good brounding for life - college and university for learning how to run powerplants

Heh maybe I'm outaline here, but I always thought perants where responsable for giving their kids a good grounding for life, and school was for education?

I know I'm pretty late in saying this, but...


This is why the Scottish education system is better.
Yeah, ours is pretty good... not perfect, by any means, but it seems to have done a reasonable job on me.

The problem with the curriculum as I see it is not so much that it is being corrupted by political correctness but that it is being continually diluted.

It's senseless to try and look at education in any specific subject as a snapshot of what is being taught there and then. The fact is that our knowledge in all areas (especially in the sciences) has been expanding so fast that the schools simply cannot keep up.

Consider this: 50 years ago most British schools would have taught Science as a subject. That was all well and good, until it got to the point where it was no longer possible to provide a proper grounding in the subjects covered. The solution was to split Science up into Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Again, all well and good but we are now reaching the stage where even these demarcations are too broad.

Another example would be Geography.

You think you were taught some useless stuff? Try taking Geography, all about population graphs and different cultures, we are taught nothing about where things are anymore.
Again, 50 years ago or so Geography lessons would have entailed learning about maps and seasons, about where the equator lies and about how glaciation sculpts landscapes... and then little things like plate tectonics started getting discovered.

Nowadays, 'Geography' is a catch-all category covering Physical Geography, Political Geography, Climatology, Geology, Ecology, Meteorology, Anthropology, Demography and many others. How any kind of meaningful measure of competence in this 'Geography' is supposed to be reached in a 2-year GCSE is beyond me!

The entire concept of the national curriculum needs to be reassessed. The comfortable little labels that have been used as subject demarcations need some tweaking and, until this is done, all that we will see is a procession of people coming out of our schools who think that they know what they are talking about, but don't.