NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes yes, this will probably be a thread consisting of beating down on vista and telling me not to install it.

But I do so want to play Halo 2 and I really don't wanna buy an xbox just to try it out. Halo 2 for PC only works with vista.

I've looked around at nvidias homepage and found no drivers for my 7900gs card and from what I've heard, the driver issue is kind of shitty when it comes to vista.

Thoughts? Should I wait for a fix/patch for XP or suck it up and install vista and just forget some other games? My laptop is well capable of running vista except for the apparent lack of drivers.

Do not install vista. If you don, you are baisically giving away your computer to microsoft.

Do not install vista. If you don, you are baisically giving away your computer to microsoft.

How so? Still this Palladium DRM-stuff? Except for slightly worse preformance and lack of drivers, I haven't heard much bad talk about vista. Care to fill me in? :)

I've heard Halo 2, on PC particularly, is mediocre.

How so? Still this Palladium DRM-stuff? Except for slightly worse preformance and lack of drivers, I haven't heard much bad talk about vista. Care to fill me in? :)

Here is just a few if the things wrong with Vista. (http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista)

I've heard Halo 2, on PC particularly, is mediocre.

Well, the first Halo was great on the xbox and pretty shitty on PC, but I still wanna know what happens, ya know? :)

Don't get an entirely new operating system just for Halo 2. It's the least skill based game I've ever played. The first time I played was at a LAN and I won the second round (a 14 player death-match) I played.

How so? Still this Palladium DRM-stuff? Except for slightly worse preformance and lack of drivers, I haven't heard much bad talk about vista. Care to fill me in? :)

Annoying DRM, it breaks DirectSound completely (thanks to the DRM), performance is worse.

Also OEM licence issues (you have to call them if you change your mainboard, and persuade them you're not being naughty), and DirectX 10 not being ported to XP/2K; having to buy a new OS just for an API? When I don't want the OS for itself? Hmph. And it will just encourage Microsoft to do the same in the future. Oh, and I only "upgraded" to XP last year, because Crossfire didn't work on 2K.

*grumbles*

Edit:
Well, the first Halo was great on the xbox and pretty shitty on PC, but I still wanna know what happens, ya know? :)

I preferred it on PC, actually... Mouse/keyboard, I guess, I'm not good with gamepads. Too many buttons ;p

Here is just a few if the things wrong with Vista. (http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista)

All well and good reasons not to use vista. However, XP got the microsoft genuine advantage-shit and no one I know who run vista has had any complaints about programs not running or such... From what I've heard, and this is heresay only I must admit, the user can manually mark applications as safe and run them without hazzle. Is that incorrect?

Annoying DRM, it breaks DirectSound completely (thanks to the DRM), performance is worse.

Also OEM licence issues (you have to call them if you change your mainboard, and persuade them you're not being naughty), and DirectX 10 not being ported to XP/2K; having to buy a new OS just for an API? When I don't want the OS for itself? Hmph. And it will just encourage Microsoft to do the same in the future. Oh, and I only "upgraded" to XP last year, because Crossfire didn't work on 2K.

*grumbles*

Well, I got a laptop, changing motherboard won't be an issue ;)
I agree that DX10 being only for vista is a really shitty move by MS, won't try to defend that one... Maybe I should just wait for some future fix to run around the vista-only crap with Halo 2...


Edit:


I preferred it on PC, actually... Mouse/keyboard, I guess, I'm not good with gamepads. Too many buttons ;p

Hehe... and you're telling me that keyboards got fewer buttons? ;)

Now go finds sites saying whats bad with linux, whats bad with osx and what was bad with xp.

Sadly, vista IS the future, I bet you hung back on 98 when 2000/xp were about because of "bugs".

My experiance with vista is this:

Installed in half the time of xp.
Loads up and shuts down faster than xp.
I actually get better performance in games such as rainbow six vegas.
Overall pc performance is improved.
And ive had one crash in a month - due to azureus killing vegas.

None of the major DRM features get activated till 2010 anyway... so wheres the problem? Considering nothing on vista has held me back from anything I do yet.

The only problem is the removal of HAL, hence why I cant use my lovely surround sound.

Try buying a new computer with decent hardware if you want to get vista though, otherwise im sure it might be a pain.

And yes i run ubuntu linux to... but frankly vista is alot nicer.

Try buying a new computer with decent hardware if you want to get vista though, otherwise im sure it might be a pain.


I figure a Dell(Don't yell at me for having a Dell, I got it from work!) 9400 with 2.0ghz C2D and 2 gigs of RAM will suffice for vista :)

Annoying DRM, it breaks DirectSound completely (thanks to the DRM), performance is worse.

Also OEM licence issues (you have to call them if you change your mainboard, and persuade them you're not being naughty), and DirectX 10 not being ported to XP/2K; having to buy a new OS just for an API? When I don't want the OS for itself? Hmph. And it will just encourage Microsoft to do the same in the future. Oh, and I only "upgraded" to XP last year, because Crossfire didn't work on 2K.

*grumbles*


DirectSound isnt broken due to DRM... it was the removal of HAL. HAL is what caused alot of BSOD in older versions of windows. Look to sound card vendors for solutions (or the new radeon cards).

Your case example of someone going against vista for no informed reason, windows 2000 was terrible to game on if you had even a remotely decent computer (which im guessing you do, due to crossfire). And im sure you dont have any form of issues such as lack of ram or old hardware?

Sure, i do agree the ways they have licensed it and the fact DRM exists (when even bill gates has now called for it to be managed better.. bit hypocritical no?), is a giant pain in the ass. But if you used the operating system for a good amount of time on not just a few hours, you'd probably see where im coming from.

I hated the idea of vista, everything it stood for and I sure as hell hate microsoft, but now I have it... I'd never dream of going back to XP/2000.

I figure a Dell(Don't yell at me for having a Dell, I got it from work!) 9400 with 2.0ghz C2D and 2 gigs of RAM will suffice for vista :)

Yes, thats lovely... no issues and vista will run better than the sexiest car you have ever owned.

DirectSound isnt broken due to DRM... it was the removal of HAL. HAL is what caused alot of BSOD in older versions of windows. Look to sound card vendors for solutions (or the new radeon cards).

Your case example of someone going against vista for no informed reason, windows 2000 was terrible to game on if you had even a remotely decent computer (which im guessing you do, due to crossfire). And im sure you dont have any form of issues such as lack of ram or old hardware?

Sure, i do agree the ways they have licensed it and the fact DRM exists (when even bill gates has now called for it to be managed better.. bit hypocritical no?), is a giant pain in the ass. But if you used the operating system for a good amount of time on not just a few hours, you'd probably see where im coming from.

I hated the idea of vista, everything it stood for and I sure as hell hate microsoft, but now I have it... I'd never dream of going back to XP/2000.

What's the deal with drivers though? I can't find the right ones for my gfx card and that's a pain in the ass...

What's the deal with drivers though? I can't find the right ones for my gfx card and that's a pain in the ass...

What graphics card?

To my knowledge the Nvidia ones are pretty nice, I can't say anything about ATI though.

You don't have to get rid of XP to run Vista. You can dual boot and then use Vista to play Halo 2 and XP to play whatever else if you find that it doesn't play well in Vista.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it, too!

You don't have to get rid of XP to run Vista. You can dual boot and then use Vista to play Halo 2 and XP to play whatever else if you find that it doesn't play well in Vista.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it, too!

Very feasible, just remember to do the research if you don't know how.

I heard alot of people getting trouble with duel booting and vista

What graphics card?

To my knowledge the Nvidia ones are pretty nice, I can't say anything about ATI though.

I have a Nvidia Geforce 7900gs for laptops. No vista drivers there, although I guess the 7-series might work... not something I wanna try out on a hunch though.

I have a Nvidia Geforce 7900gs for laptops. No vista drivers there, although I guess the 7-series might work... not something I wanna try out on a hunch though.

Yea.. laptop cards.. ALWAYS a pain in the butt :headbang:
I guess your going to have to wait there, silly companies..

You don't have to get rid of XP to run Vista. You can dual boot and then use Vista to play Halo 2 and XP to play whatever else if you find that it doesn't play well in Vista.

Yes, you can have your cake and eat it, too!

Yeah, I've thought about that... the biggest disadvantage I got with a laptop is the HDD though, like a submarine or space shuttle, every bit counts :) and sadly, I got no porn to delete to make space either... oh, and I got an external HDD for files and other crap, but the main drive is cramped anyway...

I have a Nvidia Geforce 7900gs for laptops. No vista drivers there, although I guess the 7-series might work... not something I wanna try out on a hunch though.

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12558-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=32995&messageID=606965&start=-1

Apparently the v158.18, dated Apr 17, 2007 driver works with 7900gs under Vista, but there is a newer driver available and you could try that one first.

Yeah, I've thought about that... the biggest disadvantage I got with a laptop is the HDD though, like a submarine or space shuttle, every bit counts :) and sadly, I got no porn to delete to make space either... oh, and I got an external HDD for files and other crap, but the main drive is cramped anyway...

Buy a new HDD? Or backup, try, if sad -> revert, if happy -> say yay.

Very feasible, just remember to do the research if you don't know how.

I heard alot of people getting trouble with duel booting and vista

I haven't found it more difficult than multi-booting any other OS.

Here is just a few if the things wrong with Vista. (http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista)

Every single thing on that website is utter, complete tosh, obviously written by someone with an irrational vendetta against Microsoft because it's not Linux.

http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12558-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=32995&messageID=606965&start=-1

Apparently the v158.18, dated Apr 17, 2007 driver works with 7900gs under Vista, but there is a newer driver available and you could try that one first.


You're my personal hero Fass, you know that, right? I'd fluffle you if you wouldn't smite me for it.

Yes yes, this will probably be a thread consisting of beating down on vista and telling me not to install it.

But I do so want to play Halo 2 and I really don't wanna buy an xbox just to try it out. Halo 2 for PC only works with vista.

I've looked around at nvidias homepage and found no drivers for my 7900gs card and from what I've heard, the driver issue is kind of shitty when it comes to vista.

Thoughts? Should I wait for a fix/patch for XP or suck it up and install vista and just forget some other games? My laptop is well capable of running vista except for the apparent lack of drivers.
I have not had any problems gaming on vista, as a matter of fact changing to vista did not effect things much at all

DirectSound isnt broken due to DRM... it was the removal of HAL. HAL is what caused alot of BSOD in older versions of windows. Look to sound card vendors for solutions (or the new radeon cards).
They replaced DirectSound with the Universal Audio Architecture, partly to remove drivers from kernel space, and partly (you can bet) because it gives them more control over audio for DRM purposes. Either way, UAA prevents audio hardware acceleration (eg. more than stereo, EAX or similar effects) in games using DirectSound; ie. the overwhelming majority of them. The only manufacturer so far to get around that is Creative with their X-Fi boards (which won't help my poor Audigy 2 much).

Your case example of someone going against vista for no informed reason, windows 2000 was terrible to game on if you had even a remotely decent computer (which im guessing you do, due to crossfire). And im sure you dont have any form of issues such as lack of ram or old hardware?
Win2K worked perfectly for gaming. The only reason I moved (to XP x64; I wanted more "benefit" than an ugly UI to turn off after upgrading) was because I'd just spent £300 on a second X1900XT and didn't want it sitting there doing nothing. Before then I'd had exactly no problems with 2K. The much-maligned XP x64 has also been fine for over a year.
Oh, just because I have two gigs of RAM doesn't mean I want the OS to use it all. I'm not particularly happy with XP's memory footprint (even after you've disabled themes and similar crap), and by being even fatter Vista's not enamouring me.

I hated the idea of vista, everything it stood for and I sure as hell hate microsoft, but now I have it... I'd never dream of going back to XP/2000.
I've actually got Vista Beta 2 installed on this machine (although it might've ran out now). Aero looked vaguely pretty, but not pretty enough to dump £100 on an OEM version that might need re-purchasing when I get a new mainboard (that happens quite frequently), and eventually I'd just turn Aero off to free up memory anyway, so why bother?
Also, the DirectX 10 thing; they could port it, if they really wanted to. They're just trying to strong-arm people into upgrading to an OS with no other advantage. And as my X1900XTs aren't DX10 capable, no point.

I might be forced to pirate Vista when DirectX 10 becomes necessary, but in the meantime, no. And I'm not going to buy it.

Had Vista pre-installed on the laptop I bought (AMD Turion64 X2 @ 1.6GHz, 2Gb RAM, up to 400Mb Graphics Mem.), and I have not had a single problem, period. Quicker to start than XP, quicker to shut down than XP. Games work fine on it, some take a little tweaking or compatitability mode to sort out, but nothing that takes more than 30 seconds.

I don't see what the fuss is about...

Here is just a few if the things wrong with Vista. (http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista)
Just because I'm a dick, I'm going to refute that article.
DRM gives power to Microsoft and Big Media.
It does, but that has nothing to do with Vista. My pirated software and music work just fine.
Even when you legally buy Vista, you don't own it.
Wow, just like every other EULA except the GPL.
You give Microsoft the right, through programs like Windows Defender, to delete programs from your system that it decides are spyware.
You can turn that off easily. Same with user account control, which is another thing people like to whine about.

Here are the actual problems with Vista:
It's new, so there is a lot of hardware without good or even any Vista drivers. It's only a few weeks ago that nVidia released Vista drivers that managed to beat my 3dMark05 score under Windows2000.
The other thing that you might see as a problem is that it hogs a lot of RAM. On the other hand, unlike other OSs, it doesn't have any problems with leaky memory. Some programs do because the developers decided not to test it under Vista, but that's not Vista's fault.
My main complain with Vista is that a lot of the advanced features that were so easy to find in Windows 2000 are hidden. I hate having a "user friendly" control panel. Fortunately, the good ones are still there, you just have to access them manually.
Old user manager: type "control userpasswords2" at the command line
Advanced user manager: "lusrmgr.msc"
One more thing, when you do a search, always do an advanced search or it will only check indexed files. In advanced search, you can check a box so it checks non-indexed files.

Advantages to Vista:
DirectX10
The window-flip thing, though I'm sure there are tool you can get to that in other systems. I actually thought it was dumb at first, but now I like it.
You will be able to use Vista-only software, there isn't much of it at the moment but games will be headed in that direction. I believe that Hellgate will be Vista only, but I could be wrong.

Every single thing on that website is utter, complete tosh, obviously written by someone with an irrational vendetta against Microsoft because it's not Linux.

I think you summed it up quite nicely, but I hadn't got that far yet when I wrote my rant.

I run a eval version of Vista Business on a Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 (no Aero, emulated video card is a Trio 32/64 ...) and the base OS is actually Windows XP SP2.

Apart from it using about 14Gb of disk space ... it's not bad at all. It's got really annoying features but I wouldn't complain if my next PC has Vista installed. I love the new networking features!

Thought I'd jump in since I just bought a computer with Vista on it over a week ago. As far as the OS goes its pretty good. Nothing to bad to say about it except that every time you load a program you have to go through three windows to convince the security software that its safe. Gaming: very smooth. I can play the original Starcraft, Brood Wars and Red Alert without a hint of slowdown (though performance may vary). As far as Halo 2 goes I'm with you on just buying it for windows (I don't want to spend money on an Xbox either :)) just be prepared to upgrade your drivers and graphics card and make sure you have at least Intel's Core 2 Duo processor. I tried loading Halo 2 on my computer with an AMD chip and the game ran at a snails pace.

Thought I'd jump in since I just bought a computer with Vista on it over a week ago. As far as the OS goes its pretty good. Nothing to bad to say about it except that every time you load a program you have to go through three windows to convince the security software that its safe. Gaming: very smooth. I can play the original Starcraft, Brood Wars and Red Alert without a hint of slowdown (though performance may vary). As far as Halo 2 goes I'm with you on just buying it for windows (I don't want to spend money on an Xbox either :)) just be prepared to upgrade your drivers and graphics card and make sure you have at least Intel's Core 2 Duo processor. I tried loading Halo 2 on my computer with an AMD chip and the game ran at a snails pace.

That annoying security crap is UAC - can be turned off.

yes i run ubuntu linux to... but frankly vista is alot nicer.My next PC is going to be a Dell with ubuntu linux (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dell_to_offer_Ubuntu_Linux_on_some_computers).

:)

Right... sorry vista haters, I'm givin' it a go :)
Aslong as my p2p works and games don't suffer too much, it's cool with me.
Steam supports vista, right?

That annoying security crap is UAC - can be turned off.
Apparently you canNOT turn DRM off...

DRM gives power to Microsoft and Big Media. (http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista)

* They decide which programs you can and can't use on your computer
* They decide which features of your computer or software you can use at any given moment
* They force you to install new programs even when you don't want to (and, of course, pay for the privilege)
* They restrict your access to certain programs and even to your own data files

DRM is enforced by technological barriers. You try to do something, and your computer tells you that you can't. To make this effective, your computer has to be constantly monitoring what you are doing. This constant monitoring uses computing power and memory, and is a large part of the reason why Microsoft is telling you that you have to buy new and more powerful hardware in order to run Vista. They want you to buy new hardware not because you need it, but because your computer needs it in order to be more effective at restricting what you do.

Microsoft and other computer companies sometimes refer to these restrictions as “Trusted Computing.” Given that they are designed to make it so that your computer stops trusting you and starts trusting Microsoft, these restrictions are more appropriately called “Treacherous Computing”.

Right... sorry vista haters, I'm givin' it a go :)
Aslong as my p2p works and games don't suffer too much, it's cool with me.
Steam supports vista, right?good luck..
BTW.. what is the price tag for the Vista retail box?

wait did you say P2P?
LOL.. good luck with that, let us know when you get your first letter from your ISP :D

good luck..
BTW.. what is the price tag for the Vista retail box?

wait did you say P2P?
LOL.. good luck with that, let us know when you get your first letter from your ISP :D

I got letters from my ISP when I was using ME and 98 years ago. Now I'm on closed networks mainly looking for tutorials and K-1, I'm not too frightened.
Besides, my previous ISP was a ****, my current got a good user privacy policy and havn't bowed down to the bitches at RIAA or the likes... yet. :D

Edit: And I dunno about the price tag, I got an OEM version from Dell with ma new 'puter. Sucks but it's free and I ain't changing no motherboard on a laptop anytime soon.

Yeah, I've thought about that... the biggest disadvantage I got with a laptop is the HDD though, like a submarine or space shuttle, every bit counts :) and sadly, I got no porn to delete to make space either... oh, and I got an external HDD for files and other crap, but the main drive is cramped anyway...

External caddies and 500GB HDDs for all your non-program needs.

Vista came with my new PC and I was not entirely suprised about the complete lack of backwards compatibility. I can't run the GTA classics. Or any games from the late 90's. Yes, I've tried the compatibility mode but it doesn't work. Still quite a few bugs to be worked out for it. And did I mention how much I hate the new Office applications?

If you have to use Vista, then partition your hardrive and dusl boot with Ubuntu.

... privacy policy and havn't bowed down to the bitches at RIAA or the likes... yet. :DUser privacy cannot coexist with Vista.

Hollywood Execs and The RIAA are extremely happy about Microsoft new baby (Vista)

Here is a word of advice about gaming with Vista...

Don't

Vista eats up a lot of RAM which makes my games lag.