NationStates Jolt Archive

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".

Because western society still thinks that women are weak, frail and brainless -and as the bearers of life need protection against the vastly superior males.

Can we have some more feminism here please ?

I know im american, they have concuis(sp) they are aware, but why would someone go to jail for having intercourse with only two years difference a 15 year old girl and a 17 year old male, but if it was the other way around no one would say anything. That's a load of crap:mad:

I know im american, they have concuis(sp) they are aware, but why would someone go to jail for having intercourse with only two years difference a 15 year old girl and a 17 year old male, but if it was the other way around no one would say anything. That's a load of crap:mad:

I seem to recall speculation that that case was actually a race issue, and that the agedifference was merely a pretext to punish the black boy to have fun with a white girl.
Not even knowing if the boy in question was black or not I cannot say if such speculation has a grain of truth in it. But I think it possible..

it wouldnt matter, if they were both white, or the same color, the same result would have came out, you have seen the crap on tv, when the women has had no problems with the man and all of a sudden says he raped her?

You're going to have a hard time backing up that we suffer more than women in todays society. It should be entertaining to watch.

But for what brought this on, you're actually not reading that right. It's not that she was a girl and as a woman not responsible for her actions, but the key issue was that she was a minor, she was 15. While I agree that the situation is damn ridiculous, the sticking point (no pun intended) is that she is younger than the guy in question, not that she's a woman. That and some sort of puritanical law that somehow held fellatio as a more severe crime than vaginal penetration.

ya i know im going to take fire.

but what if it was a 15 year old boy and a 17 year old women? i think you would singing a differnt tune.

Men suffer more because the political system tends to victimize the female population.

Men are seen to be the stronger of the two.


It isn't quite fair.

ya i know im going to take fire.

but what if it was a 15 year old boy and a 17 year old women? i think you would singing a differnt tune.
Not gonna play that game, champ. Find an instance where the genders where reversed and we'll talk about about the apparent mis justice in the situation. This whole "If it was reversed you'd" whatever. Doesn't fly.

okay, there have been multiple cases here in the US, that state that the female teacher had sexual intercourse with her male student(definalty minors) and when she was couaght(guess what) she was free as a bird, find a case the opposite that the man didnt get in trouble.

okay, there have been multiple cases here in the US, that state that the female teacher had sexual intercourse with her male student(definalty minors) and when she was couaght(guess what) she was free as a bird, find a case the opposite that the man didnt get in trouble.

Exactly.

It's all about perception of power.

Not gonna play that game, champ. Find an instance where the genders where reversed and we'll talk about about the apparent mis justice in the situation. This whole "If it was reversed you'd" whatever. Doesn't fly.

Cases where a 17 year old girl pleased a 15 year old boy and noone pressed charges? How many thousand do you want ?

okay, there have been multiple cases here in the US, that state that the female teacher had sexual intercourse with her male student(definalty minors) and when she was couaght(guess what) she was free as a bird, find a case the opposite that the man didnt get in trouble.
But I also seem to recall a case quite recently where that female teacher got several years in prison. Not to mention national press coverage and general outrage.

there will all ways be those few.

But I also seem to recall a case quite recently where that female teacher got several years in prison. Not to mention national press coverage and general outrage.

Well, duh. I see a distinct difference between a teacher-student relationship and two minors who are not in a dependency relation having intercourse.

Well, duh. I see a distinct difference between a teacher-student relationship and two minors who are not in a dependency relation having intercourse.

Of course. Any time you violate certain trust positions (doctors, teachers, lawyers, etc) it's different. I was just making a point based on the comment.

What frustrates me about the whole thing is just the age of consent laws. They are there to protect minors. Most are smart enough to realize what they are getting into, but at 15? Come on. You can't really expect someone that age to understand the implications of their actions. Now granted it was just fellatio, but still.

theres still the reverse side buddy.

Cases where a 17 year old girl pleased a 15 year old boy and noone pressed charges? How many thousand do you want ?

okay, there have been multiple cases here in the US, that state that the female teacher had sexual intercourse with her male student(definalty minors) and when she was couaght(guess what) she was free as a bird, find a case the opposite that the man didnt get in trouble.

Lets see them. I'm not going to argue on what you think is 'conventional wisdom.' Claiming a pattern or bias doesn't make it true, demonstrate it. This is your claim, you have to lay the groundwork before I'm going to argue your thesis.

Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do.

How?

Lets see them.

I myself fit the profile at that age. So did at least 3 of my classmates, one of them 15 with a woman 21 years of age. I do however agree that it was more common for girls to pick an older man.

I could do a survey at a few highschools if you want ?

I myself fit the profile at that age. So did at least 3 of my classmates, one of them 15 with a woman 21 years of age. I do however agree that it was more common for girls to pick an older man.

I could do a survey at a few highschools if you want ?

It wouldn't accomplish the goal set out. You can't argue imbalanced prosecution of things that aren't actually reported. I'm not asking you to prove teenagers have sex, I was a teenager once, too.

The premise is about difference in prosecution. So unless you where caught by a prosecuting authority, your sexual exploits are meaningless no matter how proud of them you are.

The premise is about difference in prosecution. So unless you where caught by a prosecuting authority, your sexual exploits are meaningless no matter how proud of them you are.

The point is that the girl in question weren't prosecuted. It was not even considered.
Which is exactly the type of example you wanted us to provide you with.

sure, there are double standards, because the anti-women sexism thing is still there, and they are seen as weak, but when guys dont press charges when theyre youger that could just be a difference in mindset. Males have a much more sex-driven personality, as in we think about it all the time :P, i dont know if you girls are liek that too, but i would assume not or wed be at it all the time.... anyway, we need to chill out a bit and take each case as it comes (no pun intended) and individually etc etc, you cant apply blanket rules to relationships.

The point is that the girl in question weren't prosecuted. It was not even considered.
Which is exactly the type of example you wanted us to provide you with.

In this instance the girl was the minor, younger than the guy. Go back, reread, try again.

What frustrates me about the whole thing is just the age of consent laws. They are there to protect minors. Most are smart enough to realize what they are getting into, but at 15? Come on. You can't really expect someone that age to understand the implications of their actions. Now granted it was just fellatio, but still.Why not? I did.
Furthermore, the age of consent in some states is 16. Is 15 really much worse?

In this instance the girl was the minor, younger than the guy. Go back, reread, try again.

A request was made for evidence that a reversal of the situation - older girl has sex with younger boy - occurs without subsequent prosecution.

So..Go back, reread, try again ;)

A request was made for evidence that a reversal of the situation - older girl has sex with younger boy - occurs without subsequent prosecution.

So..Go back, reread, try again ;)

Where is this citation, champ? You reference the original story, which is hardly a reversal. Where is this older girl younger boy caught by a prosecuting authority that you seem to think has trumped? Do you have an invisible post somewhere, or we back to your pointless braggin' about you gettin' some senior head?

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".

You take my period cramps for one months, and go through labour once, and then tell me again who suffers more.

okay, there have been multiple cases here in the US, that state that the female teacher had sexual intercourse with her male student(definalty minors) and when she was couaght(guess what) she was free as a bird, find a case the opposite that the man didnt get in trouble.

Quote, please?

You take my period cramps for one months, and go through labour once, and then tell me again who suffers more.

I can see this degenerating into a comparison between your example and getting kicked repeatedly in the balls

I can see this degenerating into a comparison between your example and getting kicked repeatedly in the balls

I haven't been kicked in the sack in years and years.

I haven't been kicked in the sack in years and years.

Damn lucky people :p

I can see this degenerating into a comparison between your example and getting kicked repeatedly in the balls

Well, LG seems to be doing well enough with that...

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".

Ok, you've laid down the accusations, allegations and generalisation, now how about you try and so something radical, like substantiate these baseless opinions of yours about how men suffer just as much if not more than women in today's world.

Ah but you can't.

Maybe in the western/developed world it is a probable that men are suffering too because women can abuse power but in the majority of places in the world, the woman is still a mere second class citizen and treated as inferior to her male counterpart.

When was the last time you heard of a man suffering in a place like Saudi Arabia, or any of the other male-dominated Islamic nations? The women are treated as second class citizens and regardless of what the man does, the woman is the one who suffers the consequences of the actions.

Or in Africa? The highest rates of HIV and AIDS is amongst women. Are they not suffering?

Many 'third world' nations have women suffering from untold violence, forced marriage, being sold into prostitution, FGM and a plethora of other inhuman conditions that men typically don't face because they're the ones causing the suffering.

I'm not saying that men don't suffer, I'm just saying you're not providing enough evidence to support your asinine statements.

I don't need to provide proof because we can see it easily in the world without going into the pain of giving birth to a child or the cramps that come from menstruation.

A 17 year odl black guy gets jail time for letting a 15 year old white girl go down on him.

Therefore men suffer more than women in society?

Look out people, we have a penguin on the loose.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/humor-penguins.gif

-- SNIP --
http://weaselhut.net/cheezweas.gif

http://weaselhut.net/cheezweas.gif

Woo!
*does Happy Smile Super Nekkid Thread Win Dance*

Because society at large is full of shit. Just look at the other direction, Saudi Arabia, where it's always considered to be the woman's fault in such cases. Societies seems to have trouble with common sense.

I haven't been kicked in the sack in years and years.

it's probably because you are like the anti-jerk.

laid back, treats people how you wanna be treated, has a van.....etc.

Note to self : Buy a van

A 17 year odl black guy gets jail time for letting a 15 year old white girl go down on him.

Therefore men suffer more than women in society?

Look out people, we have a penguin on the loose.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/humor-penguins.gif

I believe you have been...OWNED!

While I'm not going to agree with you fully, I am going to say that in some situations, not legal but more so societal and cultural, men are treated differently than women, for the worse.

One instance that comes to mind is in terms of rape. It is a fact that a woman CAN rape a man, however due to social stigma, most men will *not* report a rape of such. Infact, even when one does, society may deem it simply as a man regretting he had sex the day after(The same idea is placed on many female victims, however I would venture guess that it would be a more prevalent thought towards male victims). As well, there are some out there who believe that men cannot be raped by women. I'm fairly certain the the law recognizes it, however, it is mostly a cultural stigma towards it.

Males have a much more sex-driven personality, as in we think about it all the time :P, i dont know if you girls are liek that too, but i would assume not or wed be at it all the time....

Men are not more sex driven, they are just more assertive so it appears as if they were. Males and females have the same level of sexual desire, they think about it just as much and they engage in sexual activities at a similar rate.

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".
You actually labelled this thread 'anti-sexism'?? And then followed up with this?:

"We deal with a lot of your shit"

"Woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad?"

"Men suffer a lot more than you do"

NOT a good way to start a dialogue. In fact, I have to surmise from your confrontational tone that you don't actually care what we 'women' have to say in reply, because you are too busy sitting there on your high horse, feeling all oppressed by the matriarchy.

You know what? When women start being the victims of woman on woman crime anywhere NEAR the rate of victims of man on woman crime...when men stop BLAMING WOMEN for being the victims of man on woman crime...well, then maybe you can talk shit.

Until then, eat it instead.

I know im american, they have concuis(sp) they are aware, but why would someone go to jail for having intercourse with only two years difference a 15 year old girl and a 17 year old male, but if it was the other way around no one would say anything. That's a load of crap:mad:

The law itself is the issue. NOT 'oh my god men are such pigs and should be thrown in jail' as your OP tried to posit.

Edit: Oh, I see you already got your ass kicked for not providing a single source to back yourself up.

ya i know im going to take fire.

but what if it was a 15 year old boy and a 17 year old women? i think you would singing a differnt tune.

I actually do know of a few situations like this, personally speaking, but I live in a place thats too tolerant to really care either way.

I think topics such as gender relations should only be attempted by those actually old enough to have had sex. Which, judging by the content of the OPs posts, he isn't.

it wouldnt matter, if they were both white, or the same color, the same result would have came out, you have seen the crap on tv, when the women has had no problems with the man and all of a sudden says he raped her?

Show us a clear cut case

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us..

Ya know..I'm still trying to figure out where you came up with that she had cried rape. A guy gets made example of by the courts and now it's the women's fault?

Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do.

examples please...

So... a guy is made an example of by the courts, so that means the girl he got oral sex from cried rape, and that men suffer more.

Ya know..I'm still trying to figure out where you came up with that she had cried rape. A guy gets made example of by the courts and now it's the women's fault?

Well, SOMEONE had to notify the cops...

Well, SOMEONE had to notify the cops...

If it was consensual, then her parents must have caught them and called the cops...

If it was consensual, then her parents must have caught them and called the cops...

That's a possibility...

If this is true, I won't make a comment at this time about the parents, since it would not end good.

That's a possibility...

If this is true, I won't make a comment at this time about the parents, since it would not end good.

Yeah.... let's not derail the thread.

Yeah.... let's not derail the thread.

I was thinking more along the lines of a flame festival, but...

Back on topic.

I was thinking more along the lines of a flame festival, but...

Back on topic.

Well once we derail the thread it would become a flame festival.

...

Anyway, let's stop derailing it. *puts it back on the tracks*

If it was consensual, then her parents must have caught them and called the cops...

It was

Everyone, including the girl and the prosecution, agreed she initiated the act.

Police had found the videotape after searching the hotel room after another girl had said that she was raped that night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson

It was



Police had found the videotape after searching the hotel room after another girl had said that she was raped that night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson

Oh geeze. From what I understood, nobody was raped. Not even the 15 year old. I thought it was the 15 year old who cried rape...

Bah. I officially hate the state of Georgia.

Oh geeze. From what I understood, nobody was raped. Not even the 15 year old. I thought it was the 15 year old who cried rape...

Bah. I officially hate the state of Georgia.

I think the legal view is that she was too young to give consent so it therefore does count as rape. Not that I like it or anything

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".


Speaking as a man, your sexist rant isn't doing us any favors.

And I love how people with no clue about the Genarlow Wilson case are willing to get all worked up about "facts" that aren't true.

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/hitlove.jpg

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/pictures/hitlove.jpg

Hey you know, sometimes that's true.

But then again, some of us are freaks :D

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".

When you push something the size of a small melon, through a body opening the size of a small lemon, you might have something to say.

Until then, you're just whining.

Speaking as a man, your sexist rant isn't doing us any favors.

And I love how people with no clue about the Genarlow Wilson case are willing to get all worked up about "facts" that aren't true.

Oh come on Cat, anyone with half a brain is qualified to make legal commentary on decisions they've read about in the newspaper! It's the same principle that allows me, a totally inept physicist, to comment on string theory.

Oh wait. Shit.

But hey, this is no different than the wonderful opinions on the so called 'MacDonald case' better known as the 'that stupid git who spilled coffee on herself and sued for no reason, and isn't the legal system insane' case.

Speaking as a man, your sexist rant isn't doing us any favors.

Don't you hate when the people who chose to speak for mankind in general are often really embararssing to be associated with?

Hey you know, sometimes that's true.

But then again, some of us are freaks :D

:) I know my GF is into it though I personally refuse to take part in it :) I dont mind that she is into it its just with my past not something I am comfortable with

But anyways :)

:) I know my GF is into it though I personally refuse to take part in it :) I dont mind that she is into it its just with my past not something I am comfortable with

But anyways :)

Neesika might spank her for you, if you ask nicely. You know... just because you're a friend and all... :D

:) I know my GF is into it though I personally refuse to take part in it :) I dont mind that she is into it its just with my past not something I am comfortable with

But anyways.

Then clearly you don't love her enough to be GGG. Bad UT! BAD!!!!:p



(just kidding, in your situation that's entirely understandable)

Neesika might spank her for you, if you ask nicely. You know... just because you're a friend and all... :D

You know, I'm not totally adverse to trying out Domming a female...hook me up UT:)

(don't you love where this thread has suddenly gone?)

You know, I'm not totally adverse to trying out Domming a female...hook me up UT:)

(don't you love where this thread has suddenly gone?)

Got to be an improvement on the start....

She is bi ... she would be all over that :)

Isn't there an internet meme that runs something along the lines of 'this thread is useless without pics?'...

Then clearly you don't love her enough to be GGG. Bad UT! BAD!!!!:p



(just kidding, in your situation that's entirely understandable)
No worries I understand :) her past is worse then mine ever could be anyways:fluffle: we just have taken it different directions lol

*snip picture*

That would be considered a totally idiotic way of defending a man....

You know, I'm not totally adverse to trying out Domming a female...hook me up UT:)

(don't you love where this thread has suddenly gone?)
She is bi ... she would be all over that :)

Neesika might spank her for you, if you ask nicely. You know... just because you're a friend and all... :D

:-D we will call it a birth day present lol

She is bi ... she would be all over that :)

Damn you people for living so far away! Where are the Edmonton bis who are into kinky sex? WHERE!!!!???

Damn you people for living so far away! Where are the Edmonton bis who are into kinky sex? WHERE!!!!???

YOU're complaining??? Try living in Ireland and finding open-minded bis... :(

YOU're complaining??? Try living in Ireland and finding open-minded bis... :(

You're complaining? Try living in Georgia WITH an open-minded kinky bi, and being just a 'man'. :( What a waste.

You're complaining? Try living in Georgia WITH an open-minded kinky bi, and being just a 'man'. :( What a waste.

Know the feeling lol

Men suffer more because the political system tends to victimize the female population.

Men are seen to be the stronger of the two.


It isn't quite fair.

Exactly, just look at the DuKe incident, the names of those athelets are forever tarnished because one girl wanted to try to get rich. is that fair? thats why men have it tougher in this world. scream rape and it all goes to hell

Exactly, just look at the DuKe incident, the names of those athelets are forever tarnished because one girl wanted to try to get rich. is that fair? thats why men have it tougher in this world. scream rape and it all goes to hell

Far more often then not they dont say anything when they get raped

Come back with an informed opinion

Far more often then not they dont say anything when they get raped

Come back with an informed opinion

im not talking about the ones who dont say anything, im talkin about the ones who take advantage of your reaction just know to get either monetary compensation or just time in the spotlight, JUST LIKE THE DUKE CASE:headbang:

im not talking about the ones who dont say anything, im talkin about the ones who take advantage of your reaction just know to get either monetary compensation or just time in the spotlight, JUST LIKE THE DUKE CASE:headbang:

I'm bored, so I challenge you to prove your assertion.

so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit

Try having the internal lining of one of your important inner organs being stripped away each month by painful muscle cramps and a flood of arterial blood, between ages 13 and 50 (if you're lucky), and THEN I give you the right to complain, little boy.
:upyours:

im not talking about the ones who dont say anything, im talkin about the ones who take advantage of your reaction just know to get either monetary compensation or just time in the spotlight, JUST LIKE THE DUKE CASE:headbang:

How many are there? Care to prove how many times that happens

You are asserting that this is enough of a problem to make men "oppressed", back it up

Damn you people for living so far away! Where are the Edmonton bis who are into kinky sex? WHERE!!!!???

I'm in Calgary.

How many are there? Care to prove how many times that happens

You are asserting that this is enough of a problem to make men "oppressed", back it up

you have duke, the kobe bryant case. even after he was cleared, she stilltried to get money from him, this case http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=405074, and this article all prove my point, http://www.dancewithshadows.com/society/rape.asp

I'm bored, so I challenge you to prove your assertion.

Why do I get the feeling this will be one of those people who posts a bit and then never returns?

Exactly, just look at the DuKe incident, the names of those athelets are forever tarnished because one girl wanted to try to get rich. is that fair? thats why men have it tougher in this world. scream rape and it all goes to hell

From http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html

An estimated 91% of victims of rape are female, 9% are male and 99% of offenders are male. (Bureau of Justice Statistics 1999)

Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned. (US Senate Judiciary Committee 1993)

In a study of 6,000 students at 32 colleges in the US, 1 in 4 women had been the victims of rape or attempted rape. (Warshaw 1994)

In a study of 6,000 students at 32 colleges in the US, 42% of rape victims told no-one and only 5% reported it to the police. (Warshaw 1994)

In a survey of college males who committed rape, 84% said what they did was definitely not rape. (Warshaw, Robin 1994 "I Never Called It Rape")

Yup, those poor men. They have it so rough when it comes to rape-related issues.

How many are there? Care to prove how many times that happens

You are asserting that this is enough of a problem to make men "oppressed", back it up

is it fair for men to be suspicious of all women, because they might sue you? is it fair that we are held responsible if a woman gets pregnant (how could you get me pregnant, ETC.)? hmmm? if you do a google search for fake rape cases, you will see what im talking about.

From http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html



Yup, those poor men. They have it so rough when it comes to rape-related issues.

once again, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REAL RAPE. I AM DISGUSTED BY IT. BEING A MALE, I KNOW I COULD NOT BRING MYSELF TO DO THAT, AND THOSE THAT DO ARE SICK. I AM TALKING ABOUT FAKE RAPE CASES FOR MONETARY GAIN OR PERSONAL FAME, AND HOW RESPECTABLE MALE'S LIVES CAN BE RUINED BY THOS TYPES OF WOMEN

is it fair for men to be suspicious of all women, because they might sue you?

I've never met a man that feels this way. Out of curiosity, would you say it's "fair" that one in three women will be raped during her life?

is it fair that we are held responsible if a woman gets pregnant (how could you get me pregnant, ETC.)?

Yes. Both parties should obviously be held responsible for their choices. What sort of jerk thinks women should necessarily bear the sole responsibility for birth control?

hmmm? if you do a google search for fake rape cases, you will see what im talking about.

So, basically, you want other people to find your evidence for you. Cute.

is it fair for men to be suspicious of all women, because they might sue you?
You live in America, yes? EVERYONE might sue you.
is it fair that we are held responsible if a woman gets pregnant (how could you get me pregnant, ETC.)?
We are only in the sense that it takes two to tango.
hmmm? if you do a google search for fake rape cases, you will see what im talking about.

No. Find your own evidence like the rest of us.

I've never met a man that feels this way. Out of curiosity, would you say it's "fair" that one in three women will be raped during her life?



Yes. Both parties should obviously be held responsible for their choices. What sort of jerk thinks women should necessarily bear the sole responsibility for birth control?



So, basically, you want other people to find your evidence for you. Cute.

OK, HERE YOU GO AGAIN.
1. no, i dont think thats is fair. some men in this country are sick and disturbed

2. both parties should be held responsible for birth control, not the male or female.

3. and here is your evidence. Pakistan's President General Musharraf was quoted in a Washington Post interview, saying that many women in his country have reportedly faked rape as a device to earn sympathy and perhaps get a visa to Canada.
In a recent case in a Mumbai suburb, a former bar girl filed a petition that a policeman had raped and extorted money from her. Mumbai Police, forever plagued with charges of rape and corruption lost no time in arresting the cop and securing his police custody. Senior police officials went on record that none of the guilty will be spared. The day this rape case filed, a similar incident took place in another Mumbai suburb, where another drunk cop took a beggar girl away and raped her. The criminals in uniform, we felt, had become the biggest threats to civil society.

It did not take long for the case to change colours, with the accused and the victim swapping roles. The "rape victim" confessed later, that "rapist" "Qazi Saab bekasoor hain." The woman claimed that in fact, she had participated in a sting operation to discredit the policeman. The cops in the suburb were out on a drive to flush out illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

OK, HERE YOU GO AGAIN.
1. no, i dont think thats is fair. some men in this country are sick and disturbed

2. both parties should be held responsible for birth control, not the male or female.

3. and here is your evidence. Pakistan's President General Musharraf was quoted in a Washington Post interview, saying that many women in his country have reportedly faked rape as a device to earn sympathy and perhaps get a visa to Canada.
In a recent case in a Mumbai suburb, a former bar girl filed a petition that a policeman had raped and extorted money from her. Mumbai Police, forever plagued with charges of rape and corruption lost no time in arresting the cop and securing his police custody. Senior police officials went on record that none of the guilty will be spared. The day this rape case filed, a similar incident took place in another Mumbai suburb, where another drunk cop took a beggar girl away and raped her. The criminals in uniform, we felt, had become the biggest threats to civil society.

It did not take long for the case to change colours, with the accused and the victim swapping roles. The "rape victim" confessed later, that "rapist" "Qazi Saab bekasoor hain." The woman claimed that in fact, she had participated in a sting operation to discredit the policeman. The cops in the suburb were out on a drive to flush out illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

You're kidding me. Your brilliant evidence that men as a whole have it much worse than women is that in PAKISTAN, of all places, one man was allegedly falsely accused of rape? Seriously?

...I'm speechless.

and here is your evidence. Pakistan's President General Musharraf was quoted in a Washington Post interview, saying that many women in his country have reportedly faked rape as a device to earn sympathy and perhaps get a visa to Canada.
In a recent case in a Mumbai suburb, a former bar girl filed a petition that a policeman had raped and extorted money from her. Mumbai Police, forever plagued with charges of rape and corruption lost no time in arresting the cop and securing his police custody. Senior police officials went on record that none of the guilty will be spared. The day this rape case filed, a similar incident took place in another Mumbai suburb, where another drunk cop took a beggar girl away and raped her. The criminals in uniform, we felt, had become the biggest threats to civil society.

It did not take long for the case to change colours, with the accused and the victim swapping roles. The "rape victim" confessed later, that "rapist" "Qazi Saab bekasoor hain." The woman claimed that in fact, she had participated in a sting operation to discredit the policeman. The cops in the suburb were out on a drive to flush out illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

You quote two examples, one from a man who took power in a military coup, and neither from this country and are, in fact, from fucking Pakistan as evidence that women have it better than men?

Fail.

You're kidding me. Your brilliant evidence that men as a whole have it much worse than women is that in PAKISTAN, of all places, one man was allegedly falsely accused of rape? Seriously?

...I'm speechless.

do you want me to find every incident of false rape. ok, in america, the Duke case, which im sure you are familar with. and the Kobe Bryant case, in which even after the woman was found to be lying, she still tried to extort money from him in a civil suit

OK, HERE YOU GO AGAIN.
1. no, i dont think thats is fair. some men in this country are sick and disturbed

2. both parties should be held responsible for birth control, not the male or female.

3. and here is your evidence. Pakistan's President General Musharraf was quoted in a Washington Post interview, saying that many women in his country have reportedly faked rape as a device to earn sympathy and perhaps get a visa to Canada.
In a recent case in a Mumbai suburb, a former bar girl filed a petition that a policeman had raped and extorted money from her. Mumbai Police, forever plagued with charges of rape and corruption lost no time in arresting the cop and securing his police custody. Senior police officials went on record that none of the guilty will be spared. The day this rape case filed, a similar incident took place in another Mumbai suburb, where another drunk cop took a beggar girl away and raped her. The criminals in uniform, we felt, had become the biggest threats to civil society.

It did not take long for the case to change colours, with the accused and the victim swapping roles. The "rape victim" confessed later, that "rapist" "Qazi Saab bekasoor hain." The woman claimed that in fact, she had participated in a sting operation to discredit the policeman. The cops in the suburb were out on a drive to flush out illegal immigrants from Bangladesh.

One case in Pakistan doesn't prove anything.

do you want me to find every incident of false rape. ok, in america, the Duke case, which im sure you are familar with.

and let me ask this, can you prove the woman lied? In fact, has it ever been proven that she lied?

No?

Fail.

You're kidding me. Your brilliant evidence that men as a whole have it much worse than women is that in PAKISTAN, of all places, one man was allegedly falsely accused of rape? Seriously?

...I'm speechless.

you are missing the point. the women there take advantage of the protection system found in all civilized counries to get sympathy and to leave the country. and ONCE MORE. I THINK THAT THOSE WHO COMMIT RAPE SHOULD BE CASTRATED SO THEY NEVER DO IT AGAIN, I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I DONT LIKE WHEN WOMEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOR THEIR OWN GAIN

do you want me to find every incident of false rape. ok, in america, the Duke case, which im sure you are familar with. and the Kobe Bryant case, in which even after the woman was found to be lying, she still tried to extort money from him in a civil suit

Prove she lied.


And that's two cases. Out of thousands of rape cases. Oh yeah, women everywhere a screaming rape just so they can get some quick cash :rolleyes:

and let me ask this, can you prove the woman lied? In fact, has it ever been proven that she lied?

No?

Fail.

yes, they found that the women had sex with up to three men that night, including kobe

you are missing the point. the women there take advantage of the protection system found in all civilized counries to get sympathy and to leave the country. and ONCE MORE. I THINK THAT THOSE WHO COMMIT RAPE SHOULD BE CASTRATED SO THEY NEVER DO IT AGAIN, I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I DONT LIKE WHEN WOMEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOR THEIR OWN GAIN

No, you're missing the point. Three cases is insufficient evidence to say that women in general falsely accuse men of rape for fame or fortune. Some do, but this is only the case in a tiny proportion of rape trials.

Prove she lied.


And that's two cases. Out of thousands of rape cases. Oh yeah, women everywhere a screaming rape just so they can get some quick cash :rolleyes:

they proved she had sex with at least three other men that night. and these women who fake rape are not the majority, they try to be. and thats the point i am trying to make

No, you're missing the point. Three cases is insufficient evidence to say that women in general falsely accuse men of rape for fame or fortune. Some do, but this is only the case in a tiny proportion of rape trials.

i did not say in general, i never said in general. these women are small nuber, but sufficient enough to make it into the public eye, as evidenced by this thread

you are missing the point. the women there take advantage of the protection system found in all civilized counries to get sympathy and to leave the country. and ONCE MORE. I THINK THAT THOSE WHO COMMIT RAPE SHOULD BE CASTRATED SO THEY NEVER DO IT AGAIN, I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I DONT LIKE WHEN WOMEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOR THEIR OWN GAIN

Oh, yes, that great protection system for rape victims found in PAKISTAN.

Seriously, do you have any idea what the hell you're talking about?

you are missing the point. the women there take advantage of the protection system found in all civilized counries to get sympathy and to leave the country. and ONCE MORE. I THINK THAT THOSE WHO COMMIT RAPE SHOULD BE CASTRATED SO THEY NEVER DO IT AGAIN, I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I DONT LIKE WHEN WOMEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOR THEIR OWN GAIN

your point is that sometimes a woman makes a false complaint of rape.

yes that does happen.

at about the same rate as any other crime being falsly reported.

so how important is your point?

your point is that sometimes a woman makes a false complaint of rape.

yes that does happen.

at about the same rate as any other crime being falsly reported.

so how important is your point?


the point is that we need to rethink our position on rape in this country. the knee jerk reaction to rape (arresting the man and charging him and leaking his name and photo) has to stop. rape trials need to be just like any others, innocent until proven guilty

you are missing the point. the women there take advantage of the protection system found in all civilized counries to get sympathy and to leave the country. and ONCE MORE. I THINK THAT THOSE WHO COMMIT RAPE SHOULD BE CASTRATED SO THEY NEVER DO IT AGAIN, I AM NOT DEFENDING THEM. I DONT LIKE WHEN WOMEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT FOR THEIR OWN GAIN
Everybody takes advantages of the law for their own gain. Lawyers get paid millions to do that. Since when do only women do that?

i did not say in general, i never said in general.

Yes you did..you made the claim that men are in fear of ALL women because of a few false rape charges.

Let me make this easy for you..
is it fair for men to be suspicious of all women, because they might sue you?

is it fair for men to be suspicious of all women, because they might sue you? is it fair that we are held responsible if a woman gets pregnant (how could you get me pregnant, ETC.)? hmmm? if you do a google search for fake rape cases, you will see what im talking about.
http://files.samhart.net/humor/fail.jpg

once again, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REAL RAPE. I AM DISGUSTED BY IT. BEING A MALE, I KNOW I COULD NOT BRING MYSELF TO DO THAT, AND THOSE THAT DO ARE SICK. I AM TALKING ABOUT FAKE RAPE CASES FOR MONETARY GAIN OR PERSONAL FAME, AND HOW RESPECTABLE MALE'S LIVES CAN BE RUINED BY THOS TYPES OF WOMEN

I missed this post the first time around, it seems.

I get that you are not talking about rape when comparing how rape affects men's lives versus women's. I'm pointing out that ignoring rape in order to say that men are more adversely affected by rape cases than women is more than a little silly.

they proved she had sex with at least three other men that night.
So? That doesn't prove she only accused them of rape for fame or material gain. and these women who fake rape are not the majority, they try to be. and thats the point i am trying to make
Your point is that there are some women who try to game the system?


No shit Sherlock, there are men who try to abuse the law to their advantage too(we call em lawyers :p)
i did not say in general, i never said in general. these women are small nuber, but sufficient enough to make it into the public eye, as evidenced by this thread
See above.
the point is that we need to rethink our position on rape in this country. the knee jerk reaction to rape (arresting the man and charging him and leaking his name and photo) has to stop. rape trials need to be just like any others, innocent until proven guilty
Indeed. Rape trials should be conducted as fairly as possible, like any other trial.
http://files.samhart.net/humor/fail.jpg
Win!

the point is that we need to rethink our position on rape in this country. the knee jerk reaction to rape (arresting the man and charging him and leaking his name and photo) has to stop. rape trials need to be just like any others, innocent until proven guilty

I have the feeling you don't know how the legal system in this country works what so ever. Rape is not any procedurally different than any other crime.

(the point is that we need to rethink our position on rape in this country. the knee jerk reaction to rape (arresting the man and charging him and leaking his name and photo) has to stop. rape trials need to be just like any others, innocent until proven guilty)

YES WE NEED TO!

(the point is that we need to rethink our position on rape in this country. the knee jerk reaction to rape (arresting the man and charging him and leaking his name and photo) has to stop. rape trials need to be just like any others, innocent until proven guilty)

YES WE NEED TO!

another one who doesn't know how the legal system works.

What are you two, like...12?

Ok guys. You have effectively ganged up on this Lord Bucas character and basically shouted him down. You have demanded evidence, and then when an example is given you say - we don't accept that.

Bullshit.

Try a little less gut reaction and a little more reasoning in your responses. As far as I can see there is some truth in what Lord Bucas is claiming. He has gone over the top in his assertions, but there is still something there that his assertions are based on.

The situation is this:

Rape is a horrendous crime that traumatizes the victim.
People who commit rape are amongst the lowest of all forms of human life.
People in general prejudge events, and decide for themselves what happened in any given event prior to the evidence being available.
Anyone accused of rape is likely to be presumed to be guilty (independent of the facts)
There are some unethical individuals who take advantage of this set of circumstances.

Now, where the sexism comes in here is that this type of false accusation appears to be exclusively the work of women. There are plenty of documented cases, particularly ones involving public figures, where false accusations of rape have been made. None of these relate to a man making a false accusation, be it against a man or a woman. They have al been false accusations made by women.

NOTE: This does not relate to the majority of cases where the accusation is a genuine complaint against a, normally male, aggressor. It only relates to false accusations.

Now it may be that most of you have been lucky with the people you have met, but I for one, have heard various girls (in their late teens/ early twenties) discussing whether they were going to make a false accusation of rape to get some kind of return. In some cases I could sympathize with them as they were trying to get rid of a jerk that simply would not leave them alone. In other cases it was a pure financial business deal for them. (This was in the UK - Leeds to be exact) In this latter case I consider them to belong in that same lowest possible category of human as the rapist. Not because their act is as violent or intrusive, but because it takes this violence and uses it as a business tool.

Ok guys. You have effectively ganged up on this Lord Bucas character and basically shouted him down. You have demanded evidence, and then when an example is given you say - we don't accept that.

Bullshit.

Try a little less gut reaction and a little more reasoning in your responses. As far as I can see there is some truth in what Lord Bucas is claiming. He has gone over the top in his assertions, but there is still something there that his assertions are based on.

The situation is this:

Rape is a horrendous crime that traumatizes the victim.
People who commit rape are amongst the lowest of all forms of human life.
People in general prejudge events, and decide for themselves what happened in any given event prior to the evidence being available.
Anyone accused of rape is likely to be presumed to be guilty (independent of the facts)
There are some unethical individuals who take advantage of this set of circumstances.

Now, where the sexism comes in here is that this type of false accusation appears to be exclusively the work of women. There are plenty of documented cases, particularly ones involving public figures, where false accusations of rape have been made. None of these relate to a man making a false accusation, be it against a man or a woman. They have al been false accusations made by women.

NOTE: This does not relate to the majority of cases where the accusation is a genuine complaint against a, normally male, aggressor. It only relates to false accusations.

Now it may be that most of you have been lucky with the people you have met, but I for one, have heard various girls (in their late teens/ early twenties) discussing whether they were going to make a false accusation of rape to get some kind of return. In some cases I could sympathize with them as they were trying to get rid of a jerk that simply would not leave them alone. In other cases it was a pure financial business deal for them. (This was in the UK - Leeds to be exact) In this latter case I consider them to belong in that same lowest possible category of human as the rapist. Not because their act is as violent or intrusive, but because it takes this violence and uses it as a business tool.


YES! :)

Ok guys. You have effectively ganged up on this Lord Bucas character and basically shouted him down. You have demanded evidence, and then when an example is given you say - we don't accept that.

Bullshit.

Try a little less gut reaction and a little more reasoning in your responses. As far as I can see there is some truth in what Lord Bucas is claiming. He has gone over the top in his assertions, but there is still something there that his assertions are based on.

The situation is this:

Rape is a horrendous crime that traumatizes the victim.
People who commit rape are amongst the lowest of all forms of human life.
People in general prejudge events, and decide for themselves what happened in any given event prior to the evidence being available.
Anyone accused of rape is likely to be presumed to be guilty (independent of the facts)
There are some unethical individuals who take advantage of this set of circumstances.

Now, where the sexism comes in here is that this type of false accusation appears to be exclusively the work of women. There are plenty of documented cases, particularly ones involving public figures, where false accusations of rape have been made. None of these relate to a man making a false accusation, be it against a man or a woman. They have al been false accusations made by women.

NOTE: This does not relate to the majority of cases where the accusation is a genuine complaint against a, normally male, aggressor. It only relates to false accusations.

Now it may be that most of you have been lucky with the people you have met, but I for one, have heard various girls (in their late teens/ early twenties) discussing whether they were going to make a false accusation of rape to get some kind of return. In some cases I could sympathize with them as they were trying to get rid of a jerk that simply would not leave them alone. In other cases it was a pure financial business deal for them. (This was in the UK - Leeds to be exact) In this latter case I consider them to belong in that same lowest possible category of human as the rapist. Not because their act is as violent or intrusive, but because it takes this violence and uses it as a business tool.


If a crime is predominantly (not entirely however) male on female, is it any surprise that the number of false reports are predominantly females falsely reporting rape by men?

Is this sexism or merely statistics? The question I think needs to be asked is twofold:

1) proportionately are the women who falsely report rape by men disproproportionate to the ratio of women raped by men, versus the number of men falsely reporting rape versus men being raped

2) are the number of false reports of rape disproportionate to the victims of rape versus false reports of other crimes.

Without demonstrating those two points, the entire accusation is bullshit. And until he provides evidence that reports of false rape are somehow not part in parcel of the concept of "people will occassionally lie" then it's worthless.

Yes, women do sometimes falsely report rape. we know this. Is it any more common than any other false reports proportionatly? Who knows, and until the OP demonstrates that, his points are worthless. And THAT is why he was shouted down, and THAT is why he was mocked. NOt because we doubt women falsely report rape, but rather because we all know that, and he has totally failed to demonstrate it is any way disproportionate

another one who doesn't know how the legal system works.

What are you two, like...12?

as a sophmore in high school taking a college level US government and politics, i think i know a little more about our judicial system than you give me credit for. anyone with a Tv can watch the news and see how the country reacts when there is rape involved. the entire media handling of the trial is different, and you know it

very true

the FBI has been saying since 1991 that the annual rate for the false reporting of forcible sexual assault across the country has been a consistent 8 percent (through 1995, the most recent year available). That's four times higher than the average of the false-reporting rates of the other crimes tracked by the FBI in its Uniform Crime Report. The agency's guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred. A complainant's failure or refusal to cooperate in the investigation does not, by itself, lead to a finding of false report.


there is your statistic from
http://backissues.cjrarchives.org/year/97/6/rape.asp

as a sophmore in high school taking a college level US government and politics, i think i know a little more about our judicial system than you give me credit for.

If anything I gave you too much credit...


[/QUOTE]anyone with a Tv can watch the news and see how the country reacts when there is rape involved. the entire media handling of the trial is different, and you know it[/QUOTE]

media does not equal procedure. What the media says about someone does not change the theory of innocent until proven guilty.

If anything I gave you too much credit...


anyone with a Tv can watch the news and see how the country reacts when there is rape involved. the entire media handling of the trial is different, and you know it[/QUOTE]

media does not equal procedure. What the media says about someone does not change the theory of innocent until proven guilty.[/QUOTE]


and now that i have my proof, you change the subject. nice

and now that i have my proof, you change the subject. nice

Um, i'm waiting for you to prove something. You said rapes were treated differently and we should treat it like innocent until proven guilty. What does the news have to do with that?

Your words, not mine.

Um, i'm waiting for you to prove something. You said rapes were treated differently and we should treat it like innocent until proven guilty. What does the news have to do with that?

Your words, not mine.


the FBI has been saying since 1991 that the annual rate for the false reporting of forcible sexual assault across the country has been a consistent 8 percent (through 1995, the most recent year available). That's four times higher than the average of the false-reporting rates of the other crimes tracked by the FBI in its Uniform Crime Report. The agency's guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred. A complainant's failure or refusal to cooperate in the investigation does not, by itself, lead to a finding of false report.


there is your statistic from
http://backissues.cjrarchives.org/year/97/6/rape.asp

and now that i have my proof, you change the subject. nice

No, my dear. It was you who attempted to change the subject from trials to media reporting. Neo just put it back on track.

Do you have any evidence that those accused of rape receive trials any different from those accused of other crimes? Bear in mind that quite a few rape cases never make it to trial at all (due to lack of evidence) or end up in acquittal.

Meanwhile, I will also point out that the media sensationalizes any type of crime - and, in most cases, presumes the accused to be guilty. The coverage is more interesting that way, or so many people seem to think.

this is about why women can get away with things that men would normally get in trouble for

The agency's guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred.

You do realize, I would assume, that this does not mean that, in fact, no offense occurred. Unlike most other crimes, rape quite often leaves behind little evidence. An investigation may "determine that no offense occurred" even if one truly did.

THIS IS MY THREAD GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT "ALL" OF YOU male/female.

The agency's guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred.

Which means that a true allegation that is unproveable is considered a false report. Which proves EITHER that false reports are more common OR that rape is harder to prove.

Now, I wonder which one I'm more inclined to believe....

Which means that a true allegation that is unproveable is considered a false report. Which proves EITHER that false reports are more common OR that rape is harder to prove.

Now, I wonder which one I'm more inclined to believe....


which you are inclined. with our scientific knowledge and abilities, im sure rape is easy to prove. WHILE I HAVE NO STATS TO BACK THAT UP, that is what i believe. the science over the person

which you are inclined. with our scientific knowledge and abilities, im sure rape is easy to prove.

and you'd be horribly horribly wrong.

It's very very easy to prove someone had SEX in many instances. However ones consent leaves no physical evidence....

Fail.

which you are inclined. with our scientific knowledge and abilities, im sure rape is easy to prove. WHILE I HAVE NO STATS TO BACK THAT UP, that is what i believe. the science over the person

And, quite often, there is no science to use. If a person is coerced into sex with the threat of violence and is not actually violently handled, the scientific evidence will look EXACTLY like consensual sex. In fact, even with some violence, it may look like consensual sex, considering that some people do enjoy rough sex.

Not to mention the fact that many rapes are not reported until after the fact. Rape victims, especially if they are in shock, may wait days or more before reporting the crime. Or, even if they report it right away, they may feel so defiled that they shower/change clothes/etc. before reporting it. At that point, whatever physical evidence they may have obtained is gone.

Neo im tired of you telling people the outcome of there reasearch, dont say fail.

and you'd be horribly horribly wrong.

It's very very easy to prove someone had SEX in many instances. However ones consent leaves no physical evidence....

Fail.

and that is what it all comes down to. can the person always be believed in these cases. one will say rape, the other consent in these cases. WHO TO BELIEVE?

thats where sexism comes in, the female will almost allways get away with it, its easy for a women to say she got raped and accuse someone, and have a good chance of winning the case.

THIS IS MY THREAD GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT "ALL" OF YOU male/female.

Seeming as you were using a rape case to back this up..I fail to see why it's not on topic...

Neo im tired of you telling people the outcome of there reasearch, dont say fail.

What research? Bucas made an assertion that makes absolutely no sense in the scheme of things. Art pointed that out.

and that is what it all comes down to. can the person always be believed in these cases. one will say rape, the other consent in these cases. WHO TO BELIEVE?

That is for a jury to decide, assuming the case goes to trial (which, absent physical evidence, is pretty unlikely).

thats where sexism comes in, the female will almost allways get away with it, its easy for a women to say she got raped and accuse someone, and have a good chance of winning the case.

Not without evidence.

thats where sexism comes in, the female will almost allways get away with it, its easy for a women to say she got raped and accuse someone, and have a good chance of winning the case.

Um, no it isn't. Even in cases where rape actually occurred, a conviction is generally hard to come by.

it dosnt really matter i just dont like the fact that shes saying that he failed, there is no reason to say that on your posts, you may accuse them of being wrong, but you cant say they failed in there attemps.

Not without evidence.

but by that point the male in the trial has been compleatly exposed. his family and his name have been tarnished. just like with steriods in baseball, once your name is leaked, your name is ruined

Neo im tired of you telling people the outcome of there reasearch

tough. If they did it themselves they wouldn't need me to tell them what it means.

dont say fail.

no

it dosnt really matter i just dont like the fact that shes saying that he failed, there is no reason to say that on your posts, you may accuse them of being wrong, but you cant say they failed in there attemps.

(a) Neo Art is male, although it is interesting that you assumed otherwise.

(b) When someone is so completely wrong, it may be mean or rude to say they "failed", but it wouldn't necessarily be inaccurate.

you cant say they failed in there attemps.

sure I can.

yes very true, i think the women might say rape because after having sexual intercourse with the person, she is afraid she will be labled a "slut" "hore" so she usese rape as a escape.

and that is what it all comes down to. can the person always be believed in these cases. one will say rape, the other consent in these cases. WHO TO BELIEVE?

well, that's the big question for the jury isn't it?

it is bad form to say failed. so i would prefer if you didnt, and as for Neo, lol, i ddint mean to put she.

but by that point the male in the trial has been compleatly exposed. his family and his name have been tarnished. just like with steriods in baseball, once your name is leaked, your name is ruined

JUST like in any other trial...

JUST like in any other trial...

right, however, the current laws in the justice system allow the charge of rape to be leveled with much less evidence than, say, murder. but the impact to the accused reputation is the same. then, if the charge is retracted or thrown out, the case just fades away.....with the damage still intact. but wait, the accuser can choose to stay anonoymous to keep their reputation intact. oh well.....

noYou should have said "fail" right there. It would have been hella funny.

You should have said "fail" right there. It would have been hella funny.

please don't start with the hellas. please

please don't start with the hellas. please

Sorry. It was a throwback to my time in the Bay Area. But did it really degrade the level of discourse on this thread? Really?

i would prefer if you didnt

that's nice.

You should have said "fail" right there. It would have been hella funny.

I was sorely tempted.

right, however, the current laws in the justice system allow the charge of rape to be leveled with much less evidence than, say, murder.

no, it doesn't.

Fail, again.

no, it doesn't.

Fail, again.

This is beginning to get extremely amusing.

right, however, the current laws in the justice system allow the charge of rape to be leveled with much less evidence than, say, murder..

Care to source that??

Care to source that??

why do you people need a source for everything. how fast does it take someone to be indicted on rape vs murder after the initial charge is made. hmm. and do they get the same media coverage, yes. do u need less evidence, yes. u say, i was raped vs police stings. but you will probably say i don't know what i'm talking about, so let me save you the post.

I have no idea what i am talking about. i am a sophmore idiot taking college classes in government. i am ignorant. I FAIL.:rolleyes:

why do you people need a source for everything. how fast does it take someone to be indicted on rape vs murder after the initial charge is made. hmm. and do they get the same media coverage, yes. do u need less evidence, yes. u say, i was raped vs police stings. but you will probably say i don't know what i'm talking about, so let me save you the post. Hon, you've been arguing with a lawyer. So yes, it's fair to say that you know shit on the subject in comparison. Not only fair, but rather generous actually. As for why a source is required...bring it, or leave. That's the NSG credo.

I have no idea what i am talking about. i am a sophmore idiot taking college classes in government. i am ignorant. I FAIL.:rolleyes:
Acceptance is the first step to recovery.

why do you people need a source for everything. how fast does it take someone to be indicted on rape vs murder after the initial charge is made. hmm. and do they get the same media coverage, yes. do u need less evidence, yes. u say, i was raped vs police stings. but you will probably say i don't know what i'm talking about, so let me save you the post.

I have no idea what i am talking about. i am a sophmore idiot taking college classes in government. i am ignorant. I FAIL.:rolleyes:

Because, you know, we like people to back up their extraordinary claims with information. Not "because I said so"s. People can say any shit they want. The difference between being believable and not is having the information to back it up.

Because, you know, we like people to back up their extraordinary claims with information. Not "because I said so"s. People can say any shit they want. The difference between being believable and not is having the information to back it up.


my source would have to be the news as a whole entity then. im sure you watch the news, or read the news,or do something that involves the news

...that is probably because most high school debates generally degrade into:

"Is so!"

"Is not!"

"Nu-uuuuuuh"

...that is probably because most high school debates generally degrade into:

"Is so!"

"Is not!"

"Nu-uuuuuuh"


pretty much:headbang:

why do you people need a source for everything.
It's the internet. People make up shit. Sources help keep that down to a reasonable level. Surely a sophomore taking government classes can see the calue of sources.

my source would have to be the news as a whole entity then. im sure you watch the news, or read the news,or do something that involves the news

Surely you can find at least ONE article then. I mean, you're on the internet, aren't you? You have heard of Google, haven't you?

. do u need less evidence, yes.


I'm interested in what you mean by 'less evidence'.
Evidence is evidence.

Surely you can find at least ONE article then. I mean, you're on the internet, aren't you? You have heard of Google, haven't you?


here is the evidence for rape:
After you report an assault to the police, DO NOT shower, bathe, douche, change clothes, or straighten up the area until medical and legal evidence is collected. These actions will destroy valuable evidence needed to apprehend your assailant.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1589_4580---,00.html
And here it is for murder:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0042-6601(196203)48%3A2%3C173%3ATCDOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-1

read it and weep, it is harder to get evidence for a murder charge than a rape charge

it is harder to get evidence for a murder charge than a rape charge

What does THAT have anything to do with needing less evidence for a rape than a murder???

What does THAT have anything to do with needing less evidence for a rape than a murder???

if u read i t, it says that convicting evidence is hard because there may or may not be a body, the body may have been found by another agency but not documented, and there may be an unexplained confession of guilt by someone who is not a suspect, and is innocent. For rape, you just need a small fragment of DNA. semen, hair, anything that is on or in the body of the victem

yes very true, i think the women might say rape because after having sexual intercourse with the person, she is afraid she will be labled a "slut" "hore" so she usese rape as a escape.

Claiming rape is hardly an escape from such labels - and most people are well aware of it. In a rape trial, the accuser's sexual history will most likely be dragged before the court. She is more likely to be labeled as a "slut" or a "whore" in a rape case than outside of one.

if u read i t, it says that convicting evidence is hard because there may or may not be a body, the body may have been found by another agency but not documented, and there may be an unexlained confession of guilt by someone who is not a suspect, and is innocent. For rape, you just need a small fragment of DNA. semen, hair, anything that is on or in the body of the victem

No. That does not say you need less evidence. That says you NEED evidence.
Why do you think women should not shower..etc? ITS EVIDENCE!! Without it..it will be hard to make a claim. Just like in murder..pretty hard to prove there actually was a murder without a body to prove that.

well you know, he does have a point. If a woman wants to get a man in trouble it's a lot easier to do that by claiming he raped her than by claiming he murdered her.

It is obviously rampant sexism that the police are more inclined to believe a woman when she says she has been raped then when she says she has been murdered. A lot of times when a woman shows up at the police station and says she's been murdered they don't believe her.

why do you people need a source for everything. how fast does it take someone to be indicted on rape vs murder after the initial charge is made.

I generally need a source for people who say something like "how fast does it take someone to be indicted on rape vs murder after the initial charge is made" without realizing that the indictment IS the formal charge.


I have no idea what i am talking about. i am a sophmore idiot taking college classes in government. i am ignorant. I FAIL.:rolleyes:

and I'm a lawyer.

Fail.

here is the evidence for rape:
After you report an assault to the police, DO NOT shower, bathe, douche, change clothes, or straighten up the area until medical and legal evidence is collected. These actions will destroy valuable evidence needed to apprehend your assailant.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1589_4580---,00.html
And here it is for murder:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0042-6601(196203)48%3A2%3C173%3ATCDOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-1

read it and weep, it is harder to get evidence for a murder charge than a rape charge

um, that evidence is generally used for convictions, not charges. I'm not sure what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.

well you know, he does have a point. If a woman wants to get a man in trouble it's a lot easier to do that by claiming he raped her than by claiming he murdered her.

It is obviously rampant sexism that the police are more inclined to believe a woman when she says she has been raped then when she says she has been murdered. A lot of times when a woman shows up at the police station and says she's been murdered they don't believe her.
http://www.geneseo.edu/~pogo/images/DilbertSarcasm.jpg

well you know, he does have a point. If a woman wants to get a man in trouble it's a lot easier to do that by claiming he raped her than by claiming he murdered her.


Welll..if ya put it that way...:p

well you know, he does have a point. If a woman wants to get a man in trouble it's a lot easier to do that by claiming he raped her than by claiming he murdered her.

It is obviously rampant sexism that the police are more inclined to believe a woman when she says she has been raped then when she says she has been murdered. A lot of times when a woman shows up at the police station and says she's been murdered they don't believe her.

Or not even rape, but rather sexual assault that can't be proven or disproven.

This means she can say that he made unwanted advanced, touched her despite being told not to, making lewd comments etc. It doesn't even have to be rape (or aggravated sexual assault) for the man to get into trouble.

As for being murdered, she could simply change her tale to make it appear as though the man is TRYING to murder her and that there is intent to do harm.

But due to the level of violence that is known to exist against women because of pre-existing attitudes engrained with age and culture, police often need to err on the side of caution because if they assume the woman is lying simply because a tiny percentile do, they will endanger those who truly need help, disenfranchise those who will need help in the future and drive up the amount of sexual crimes against women because there is little deterrent because the assume that the woman hasn't told the truth...

It's a sad reality but until there is proof that there are very few crimes that exist, especially the domestic variety, police will listen to the women and not because of an inherent sexist attitude that men are guilty of being sexual deviants but because often women are the victims of violence. That violence won't go away until people are treated equally and it means changing attitudes towards both genders and that takes a lot of education.

Religion and culture will get in the way of those, which is why the police err in the first place. Those two were historically in many ways male-dominated, so the practices were biased against women and the progress we've made is still being held back because there are people who are stuck believing and thinking women are inferior.

well you know, he does have a point. If a woman wants to get a man in trouble it's a lot easier to do that by claiming he raped her than by claiming he murdered her.

It is obviously rampant sexism that the police are more inclined to believe a woman when she says she has been raped then when she says she has been murdered. A lot of times when a woman shows up at the police station and says she's been murdered they don't believe her.

Holy fucking hell.

I love you.

You know what? When women start being the victims of woman on woman crime anywhere NEAR the rate of victims of man on woman crime...when men stop BLAMING WOMEN for being the victims of man on woman crime...well, then maybe you can talk shit.

Until then, eat it instead.

Although I don't believe that us men suffer more (or less) then women in general I would like to note some things.

A. Crime rates in general are about equal when you compare men to women, maybe men do more violent crimes... it just means you women have the market on non-violent crimes. *edit - that was not a direct meaning, more so a comparisson that if men did more of one thing then for it to be equal it would be more likely for women to do another thing. Also it seems the video I was referring to for information were considering a different set of statistics (or should have been at least) so this information is quite useless... just left it so people understand posts below*

B. Violence towards men is more accepted, I know because I see it all the time. Men get slapped, scratched, kicked, whatever you want in public all the time, but if I were to slap a women who slapped me it would cause hell.

(point B is from personal experience... no I did not hit her back but I was the one who was expected to say sorry for a fight that we both started. That and it was done in front of friends who did not even care. We are raised to believe that its ok, and once I made her look at what she was doing after several similar events she stopped and apologized)

Although I don't believe that us men suffer more (or less) then women in general I would like to note some things.
A. Crime rates in general are about equal when you compare men to women, maybe men do more violent crimes... it just means you women have the market on non-violent crimes.


Would like to see you prove that assertation

Back to the original topic, and to North Calaveras's opinion…
Women are the victims of far more sexism than men. From lower incomes compared to their male counterparts (http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/faculty/Dietz_JVB.pdf) to more extreme cases, where they are treated as little more than posessions (http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/iran-cn.htm), sexism is far more prevalent against women than it is against men.

However, for the sake of impartiality, consider the following situation: two politicians are running against each other in a centrist, modernized city. During a debate, one of them states that all men are slobbering pigs, and the other states that all women are empty-headed ditzes. Are either of these politicians deserving of a victory, or even of a single vote? It is harly reasonable to accept an uncommon intolerence due to the presence of a more prevalent one: both are deserving of reprimand.

Would like to see you prove that assertation

He's right only in that men are more likely to be victims of violence than women.

But he left out the part where women are disproportionately likely to be victims of violence at the hands of a man, than of a woman...disproving nothing I said.

He's right...in that men are more likely to be victims of violence than women.

But he left out the part where women are disproportionately likely to be victims of violence at the hands of a man, than of a woman...disproving nothing I said.
Yes they are more likly but what he said was

Crime rates in general are about equal when you compare men to women, maybe men do more violent crimes... it just means you women have the market on non-violent crimes.

Women do not have the market on non violent crime men do they may be the highest rate of victoms but they also have the highest rate of perpetration

Women do not have the "corner" on non violent crime at all

Interesting.... after watching several videos to state that it was something like 46% women to 54% males google says otherwise...
This site says something that is close... but it deals with just violence related crimes. I would like to say sorry for not researching first, should know better then to trust any video without research... even if it is labelled educational.

http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/archives_2006/fact-sheets/p3.html

This states that it is about even in some cases, and in others slightly worse for women. (apparently more men are physically abused in a current relationship then women, proving my second point quite well)

Crime stats from the UK (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=442): 4 in 5 offenders male.

Stats from the US (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance.htm#property). Males still in the lead.

http://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/archives_2006/fact-sheets/p3.html

Edited previous post, I was thinking about an educational video and I took it word for word without research... quite stupid on my part

thats where sexism comes in, the female will almost allways get away with it, its easy for a women to say she got raped and accuse someone, and have a good chance of winning the case.

*cough*

Only 2% of rapists are convicted and imprisoned. (US Senate Judiciary Committee 1993)

is it fair for men to be suspicious of all women, because they might sue you? is it fair that we are held responsible if a woman gets pregnant (how could you get me pregnant, ETC.)? hmmm? if you do a google search for fake rape cases, you will see what im talking about.

Is it unreasonable to expect you to keep the snake in it's cage until you know a girl well enough that you trust her not to maliciously sue you?

If the cock is the brains in your partnership, don't expect any sympathy.

Far too many guys are happy to engage in risk sex, and then plea some form of lack of accountability if it ends up turning shit-shaped.

yes, they found that the women had sex with up to three men that night, including kobe

So - If a woman has sex with three men... and a fourth one forces her, violently, and against her will - it doesn't count as rape, because she'd already had sex?

I'd say you were talking through your hat, but that would imply you were sitting on it.

I got this from the thread about the 15 yr old girl, these accusations are ridicuals, she had a brain, she knew what she was doing, so women dont pull that crap on us, we deal with alot of your shit, woopy do you have a baby maybe one in your life, and say that's bad? Trust me ladys men suffer alot more than you do. I'm not pointing fingers but why is it always the "mans" falt and "he should have known better".
When a man fucks up, it's his fault.

No, you cannot blame women just because a woman turned you down at the pub that one time.

No, it's not her fault that the two of you had sex and the condom broke and now you have to actually support the child you helped conceive.

No, you do not deserve any pity whatsoever for having to suffer the horrible burden of maleness in this world today.

No, you are not oppressed because you are asked to treat people (male or female) with fundamental respect and courtesy.

No, you do not get to have sex with minors and escape the legal consequences just because you're a man and she was a tempting hussy and whatnot.

No, you don't suffer more than women do. If you're posting on this forum, then you have the time and the ability to access the internet and post whines about how hard your life is. That automatically means you are better off than 90% of the people on this planet. Get over yourself.

Far too many guys are happy to engage in risk sex, and then plea some form of lack of accountability if it ends up turning shit-shaped.

You say it like they are to blame in those cases where they are wrongly accused

When a man fucks up, it's his fault.

No, you cannot blame women just because a woman turned you down at the pub that one time.

No, it's not her fault that the two of you had sex and the condom broke and now you have to actually support the child you helped conceive.

No, you do not deserve any pity whatsoever for having to suffer the horrible burden of maleness in this world today.

No, you are not oppressed because you are asked to treat people (male or female) with fundamental respect and courtesy.

No, you do not get to have sex with minors and escape the legal consequences just because you're a man and she was a tempting hussy and whatnot.

No, you don't suffer more than women do. If you're posting on this forum, then you have the time and the ability to access the internet and post whines about how hard your life is. That automatically means you are better off than 90% of the people on this planet. Get over yourself.
Nothing quite like the Bottle-sanctioned meat grinder to knock someone off their high horse.

When a man fucks up, it's his fault.

No, you cannot blame women just because a woman turned you down at the pub that one time.

No, it's not her fault that the two of you had sex and the condom broke and now you have to actually support the child you helped conceive.

No, you do not deserve any pity whatsoever for having to suffer the horrible burden of maleness in this world today.

No, you are not oppressed because you are asked to treat people (male or female) with fundamental respect and courtesy.

No, you do not get to have sex with minors and escape the legal consequences just because you're a man and she was a tempting hussy and whatnot.

No, you don't suffer more than women do. If you're posting on this forum, then you have the time and the ability to access the internet and post whines about how hard your life is. That automatically means you are better off than 90% of the people on this planet. Get over yourself.

Wow. Just wow. I'm glad I didn't post my own reply, there's just no way I can compete with a good ass whuppin by Bottle.

Nothing quite like the Bottle-sanctioned meat grinder to knock someone off their high horse.

I am SO glad that anger has never been leveled my way.

You say it like they are to blame in those cases where they are wrongly accused

Not exactly. But, if you engage in habitual risk sex, you are a much better target for false accusations than if your habits are known and observable as more 'innocent'.

I'm not saying it's right or fair for people to be unjustly accused of anything - but a guy can mitigate his risk by being a little selective. Not every girl will make a false accusation, but if you nail everything with a pulse, you are statistically more likely to strike trouble. Maybe?

Not exactly. But, if you engage in habitual risk sex, you are a much better target for false accusations than if your habits are known and observable as more 'innocent'.

I'm not saying it's right or fair for people to be unjustly accused of anything - but a guy can mitigate his risk by being a little selective. Not every girl will make a false accusation, but if you nail everything with a pulse, you are statistically more likely to strike trouble. Maybe?

The way I see that is like the people who say that if a woman dresses provocatively she was asking to be raped.

But yeah I understand that isn't what you meant

I'm not saying it's right or fair for people to be unjustly accused of anything - but a guy can mitigate his risk by being a little selective. Not every girl will make a false accusation, but if you nail everything with a pulse, you are statistically more likely to strike trouble. Maybe?
Which is why trust is just so damn important. If both partners trust each other, you don't have the risk of running afoul the other and having false accusations thrown your way. Sure the building process can take a while but it's better than the alternative.

I was just thinking the same thing, but opposite...

I'm kind of jealous of all these people that get spanked by Bottle...

Enjoy it a bit rough there, do we? :D

I am SO glad that anger has never been leveled my way.

I was just thinking the same thing, but opposite...

I'm kind of jealous of all these people that get spanked by Bottle...

I can see this degenerating into a comparison between your example and getting kicked repeatedly in the balls

Difference being, you can avoid being kicked n the balls. until menopause, or taking artificial hormones that can cause serious side effects, we're stuck with menstrual cramps. Luckily for me, my cramps seem to be lessening with age, altho lots of stress right before my period starts brings them screamng back.

And yes, you can avoid labor by not becoming pregnant, but even with an epidural, you're going to feel something. I remember my best friends' screams as she gave birth to my godson, after having her spidural turned up several times. No, thank you. I like my uterus just the way it is, thanks.

Difference being, you can avoid being kicked n the balls. until menopause, or taking artificial hormones that can cause serious side effects, we're stuck with menstrual cramps. Luckily for me, my cramps seem to be lessening with age, altho lots of stress right before my period starts brings them screamng back.

And yes, you can avoid labor by not becoming pregnant, but even with an epidural, you're going to feel something. I remember my best friends' screams as she gave birth to my godson, after having her spidural turned up several times. No, thank you. I like my uterus just the way it is, thanks.

Damn you, you're speeding up the degeneration :p

Damn you, you're speeding up the degeneration :p

But being a degenerate is so much FUN!

The way I see that is like the people who say that if a woman dresses provocatively she was asking to be raped.

But yeah I understand that isn't what you meant

I see what you're saying - but I think the things are kind of different. A naked girl isn't asking for rape... and a promiscuous guy isn't asking for a rape allegation... but - from an INDIVIDUAL point of view, if you are going to lose sleep over the possibility that one of the girls you anonymously encounter might cause you trouble... it's only good sense to reduce the anonymity of the encounters.

Enjoy it a bit rough there, do we? :D

Oh come on - who doesn't want to get spanked by Bottle, just once?

I see what you're saying - but I think the things are kind of different. A naked girl isn't asking for rape... and a promiscuous guy isn't asking for a rape allegation... but - from an INDIVIDUAL point of view, if you are going to lose sleep over the possibility that one of the girls you anonymously encounter might cause you trouble... it's only good sense to reduce the anonymity of the encounters.

And its only good sense not to dress provocatively if you are at risk of rape?

And its only good sense not to dress provocatively if you are at risk of rape?

Said it before, say it again: A woman should be able to walk naked down the street and not have to worry about rape. Altho I wouldn't reccoment it in a Michigan winter. There are certain bits that shouldn't be exposed to that kind of wind chill...

And its only good sense not to dress provocatively if you are at risk of rape?

No, but if dressing provocatively makes you worry constantly about being raped, it's only good sense to dress less provocatively. Grave's point doesn't seem to be "man-whores deserve to be falsely accused of rape," but "if you are really worried that all the girls you have sex with might accuse you of rape, maybe you should be more discriminating in your choice of sexual partners."

Said it before, say it again: A woman should be able to walk naked down the street and not have to worry about rape. Altho I wouldn't reccoment it in a Michigan winter. There are certain bits that shouldn't be exposed to that kind of wind chill...

Thats my point. Give it back :p

No, but if dressing provocatively makes you worry constantly about being raped, it's only good sense to dress less provocatively. Grave's point doesn't seem to be "man-whores deserve to be falsely accused of rape," but "if you are really worried that all the girls you have sex with might accuse you of rape, maybe you should be more discriminating in your choice of sexual partners."

You're probably right in that i've misunderstood Grave's posts. Kbrookistan kind of made my point for me (even if it isn't relevant anymore)

And its only good sense not to dress provocatively if you are at risk of rape?

I didn't say anything about being at risk.

I said, if you, as an individual, are concerned about certain ramifications, it is only good sense to provide yourself a countermeasure.

If a girl is losing sleep because she's so worried she might be raped, it really IS good sense for her to dress a certain way, and hang around in certain places.

I'm not talking about the right or wrong of the action. I'm not talking about whether or not miniskirts cause rape. I'm talking about what you - as a concerned individual - should sensibly do, IF you are worried about situations arising.

I didn't say anything about being at risk.

I said, if you, as an individual, are concerned about certain ramifications, it is only good sense to provide yourself a countermeasure.

If a girl is losing sleep because she's so worried she might be raped, it really IS good sense for her to dress a certain way, and hang around in certain places.

I'm not talking about the right or wrong of the action. I'm not talking about whether or not miniskirts cause rape. I'm talking about what you - as a concerned individual - should sensibly do, IF you are worried about situations arising.

Ah ok. Misunderstanding on my part. Sorry bout that

No, but if dressing provocatively makes you worry constantly about being raped, it's only good sense to dress less provocatively. Grave's point doesn't seem to be "man-whores deserve to be falsely accused of rape," but "if you are really worried that all the girls you have sex with might accuse you of rape, maybe you should be more discriminating in your choice of sexual partners."

Exactly. Thanks. :)

Said it before, say it again: A woman should be able to walk naked down the street and not have to worry about rape. Altho I wouldn't reccoment it in a Michigan winter. There are certain bits that shouldn't be exposed to that kind of wind chill...

Unless you like that tingly frostbite sensation... :D

Ah ok. Misunderstanding on my part. Sorry bout that

No bad. It's an opportunity to refine my point, so that it makes more sense to all involved - even me. :)

Thats my point. Give it back :p

Mine! My point! :p

Mine! My point! :p

Fight for it. There should be jell-o...

So - If a woman has sex with three men... and a fourth one forces her, violently, and against her will - it doesn't count as rape, because she'd already had sex?

I'd say you were talking through your hat, but that would imply you were sitting on it.

I think the suspicious action here was that the woman apparently had hookups after Kobe. If someone has been raped, their next action is highly unlikely to be to immediately go out and have consensual sex. It's possible, of course, but unlikely enough to cast doubt on the rape story.

I think the suspicious action here was that the woman apparently had hookups after Kobe. If someone has been raped, their next action is highly unlikely to be to immediately go out and have consensual sex. It's possible, of course, but unlikely enough to cast doubt on the rape story.

But, of course, doubt isn't the same as evidence of a lie. Which was the point I was trying to pursue.

Also - I guess it might depend on the specifics of the rape situation... might it not be possible that certain chemical treatments might leave a person susceptible to repeated advances - even unwanted ones - whether or not an unwanted action had already taken place?

isnt the central question of the kobe bryant case "is that rape?"

bryant didnt deny having sex with her or the details of how it happened.

so... is going to a man's hotel room in the middle of the night hoping for a bit of romance in fact giving him permission to do with you what he will?

isnt the central question of the kobe bryant case "is that rape?"

From what I understand, the central question was, "Did rape occur?" She claimed that she told him to stop and that he didn't. He claims that she never said any such thing, that they had sex, and then she peaceably left.

bryant didnt deny having sex with her or the details of how it happened.

He did deny that she expressed any wish to stop.

Interestingly enough, another woman came forward before the case was dropped and stated that she had nearly hooked up with Bryant. However, when things started getting hot and heavy, she thought about the fact that he was married and told him she didn't want to do it. She said he was very polite about the whole thing and stopped without hesitation.

so... is going to a man's hotel room in the middle of the night hoping for a bit of romance in fact giving him permission to do with you what he will?

Of course not.

Given that the case was dropped, it is rather hard to claim the accusation against Kobe Bryant is an example of the system's unfairness to men.

To the contrary, a case can be made that things were made rather difficult for the alleged victim.

Given that the case was dropped, it is rather hard to claim the accusation against Kobe Bryant is an example of the system's unfairness to men.

To the contrary, a case can be made that things were made rather difficult for the alleged victim.

I live in Denver at the time of the charges, and I recall the victims parents talking about how she'd been threatened, called a slut, how people had been going through her trash... It got really ugly up htere in the mountains.

To those who say men suffer as much as women and those that allege police always side with women, I want you to read this article and tell us again how the police will always listen when women report abuse: Daughter's slaying a matter of honour (http://www.thestar.com/News/article/224207)

This took place in Britain, a nice developed western nation.

I didn't even have to look far for it because this was one of the links when I was looking in today's Toronto Star.

I am SO glad that anger has never been leveled my way.
And that wasn't even anger. Just mild irritation.

It's nothing new for privileged white males to whine about how oppressed they are because Those People don't know their place like they did back in The Good Old Days. In fact, back in The Good Old Days the privileged white males were whining about how horrible it was for them to have to endure the indignity of their wives voting and their brown-skinned servants drinking from clean white water fountains.

Gentle hint for all:

If the worst thing you can find to complain about is that other people say mean things about you, you are extremely lucky. If the worst "discrimination" you can cite is the fact that you aren't allowed to rape people when you feel like it or use racial slurs in mixed company, you are extremely lucky. If the worst oppression you suffer is being expected to support children you help conceive, you are extremely lucky.

While I'm at it, I feel like addressing the whole "Men are more often the targets of false rape accusations than women!!"

Ok. But women are more often the targets of rape than men.

I don't know about you, but if I had to choose I would definitely rather be falsely accused of rape than be actually raped. Particularly since the overwhelming majority of accused rapists are never convicted, but 100% of rape victims have, you know, been raped.

One in every three American women will be raped in her lifetime.

Approximately 255 American women were raped EACH DAY during 2006, according to the FBI.

Anybody who claims that men's fear of false rape accusations can be compared to threat of actually being raped is a jackass.

Approximately 255 American women were raped EACH DAY during 2007, according to the FBI.
Sorry to contradict you... but shouldn't that be 2006? :) since we're in 2007 and we can't really have an average for the year until a report can be compiled?

Sorry to contradict you... but shouldn't that be 2006? :) since we're in 2007 and we can't really have an average for the year until a report can be compiled?
Heh, yes, and I shall edit!

My tender woman-brain has trouble with numbers, you see...

Heh, yes, and I shall edit!

My tender woman-brain has trouble with numbers, you see...

Only trouble? For some reason, they make mine flee in terror. ;)

It's not my list (http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html), and it can benefit from citation, and some of the wordings aren't that great, but it's a good place to start, especially when I'm lazy and not really awake and just noticed I passed out without even shutting down my browser...

The Male Privilege Checklist

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.
2. I can be confident that my co-workers won't think I got my job because of my sex - even though that might be true.
3. If I am never promoted, it's not because of my sex.
4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won't be seen as a black mark against my entire sex's capabilities.
5. The odds of my encountering sexual harassment on the job are so low as to be negligible.
6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.
7. If I'm a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are so low as to be negligible.
8. I am not taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces.
9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.
10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.
11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I'll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I'm even marginally competent.
12. If I have children and pursue a career, no one will think I'm selfish for not staying at home.
13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.
14. Chances are my elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more likely this is to be true.
15. I can be somewhat sure that if I ask to see "the person in charge," I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.
16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters.
17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children's media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male heroes were the default.
18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.
19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.
20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented, every day, without exception.
21. If I'm careless with my financial affairs it won't be attributed to my sex.
22. If I'm careless with my driving it won't be attributed to my sex.
23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.
24. If I have sex with a lot of people, it won't make me an object of contempt or derision.
25. There are value-neutral clothing choices available to me; it is possible for me to choose clothing that doesn't send any particular message to the world.
26. My wardrobe and grooming are relatively cheap and consume little time.
27. If I buy a new car, chances are I'll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car.
28. If I'm not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.
29. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.
30. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called "crime" and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called "domestic violence" or "acquaintance rape," and is seen as a special interest issue.)
31. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. "All men are created equal…," mailman, chairman, freshman, he.
32. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.
33. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if i don't change my name.
34. The decision to hire me will never be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.
35. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is usually pictured as being male.
36. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.
37. If I have a wife or girlfriend, chances are we'll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.
38. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, chances are she'll do most of the childrearing, and in particular the most dirty, repetitive and unrewarding parts of childrearing.
39. If I have children with a wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we'll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.
40. Magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are much rarer.
41. I am not expected to spend my entire life 20-40 pounds underweight.
42. If I am heterosexual, it's incredibly unlikely that I'll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover.
43. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

I'd dispute 8,9,10, and 25 and I'd like to think 34 would be a legit conern for an employer regardless of the gender of the applicant (as much as I know it isn't used that way).

Other than that, yeah, we're supposed to bear a cross.

I'd dispute 8,9,10, and 25 and I'd like to think 34 would be a legit conern for an employer regardless of the gender of the applicant (as much as I know it isn't used that way).

Other than that, yeah, we're supposed to bear a cross.

I'd have to agree that 8-10 are at best proportional, and that 25 is incomplete.

With 34 I think that concern is far more weighted against women.

But like I said, it's not a perfect list.

Man, I really should get back to sleep...

And people wonder why I do not wear chick cloths, have short hair, have no aversion to burping, farting and acting like an asshole; a grade-a dickhole - I figure, the more I act like a guy, the less they focus on the fact that I got a vagina and a set of tits. :)

Looking at that list reminds me why I don't try and look like a girl at all. Of course, I have no problem with my sexuality, I just don't like being thought of as a girl; just like being one of the guys. :)

And people wonder why I do not wear chick cloths, have short hair, have no aversion to burping, farting and acting like an asshole; a grade-a dickhole - I figure, the more I act like a guy, the less they focus on the fact that I got a vagina and a set of tits. :)

Looking at that list reminds me why I don't try and look like a girl at all. Of course, I have no problem with my sexuality, I just don't like being thought of as a girl; just like being one of the guys. :)

That just makes you someone with tits we can burp and fart around, which for a lot of guys is win-win. It may be hard to impossible take focus off tits. They're like focus magnets...

I probably just destroyed all the pro-feminism points made from posting that list with that last comment, I'm afraid...ah well...just because I think women get a raw deal and should be treated fairly doesn't mean I don't like me some breasts...

That just makes you someone with tits we can burp and fart around, which for a lot of guys is win-win. It may be hard to impossible take focus off tits. They're like focus magnets...

I probably just destroyed all the pro-feminism points made from posting that list with that last comment, I'm afraid...ah well...just because I think women get a raw deal and should be treated fairly doesn't mean I don't like me some breasts...

No, you didn't. It's a proven fact that men <3 boobs. There's nothing wrong with it.

That just makes you someone with tits we can burp and fart around, which for a lot of guys is win-win. It may be hard to impossible take focus off tits. They're like focus magnets...

I probably just destroyed all the pro-feminism points made from posting that list with that last comment, I'm afraid...ah well...just because I think women get a raw deal and should be treated fairly doesn't mean I don't like me some breasts...
It's fine to admit that you like breasts.

Just be careful about claiming breasts are "focus magnets" and such. You are quite capable of controlling yourself and your actions. Don't blame boobies if you choose to focus on a woman's chest.

It's fine to admit that you like breasts.

Just be careful about claiming breasts are "focus magnets" and such. You are quite capable of controlling yourself and your actions. Don't blame boobies if you choose to focus on a woman's chest.

I concur. The person looking at the chest (and I say person since lesbians would probably have the same fascination though would be more subtle about it) does have the choice. After all, it's not like breasts are a new thing. The'y've been around since... well, ever. :)