NationStates Jolt Archive

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

Your argument starts "we have nothing to be proud of" and finishes "why aren't people proud?"

Either you're contradicting yourself, or you're answering your own question.

First part was my opinion, the last part was a question. I want your opinion.

Your argument starts "we have nothing to be proud of" and finishes "why aren't people proud?"

Either you're contradicting yourself, or you're answering your own question.

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in the United States?

I'm plenty proud of our country, let me say first.

Second, I'm only one person of course, but I know many people, friends and close relatives, who have joined the Army, Foreign Service, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps (like Peace Corps, but domestic) and so forth. I have friends who are involved in international business, representing our products and culture in commerce, and love it, and not just for the money, which is ample. There's a lot of community spirit out there, even if there are also many people who are cynical about the role of nations and world affairs, and so on.

Maybe you just need to look around more. ;)

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in the United States?

I'm not going to disagree with you on most of your points but it seems that the things I bolded are very much alive nevertheless.

Americans are still uber-patriotic and proud of their country which is still "the best in the world!!11!1!". The only difference may be that they're even more defiant now. Some because they are realizing for the first time how shaky that ground is they're arguing on, most because they just stubbornly react to what they perceive as the world unfairly bashing them. So, basically, their pride just got even more irrational. Yay.

I'm not going to disagree with you on most of your points but it seems that the things I bolded are very much alive nevertheless.

Americans are still uber-patriotic and proud of their country which is still "the best in the world!!11!1!". The only difference may be that they're even more defiant now. Some because they are realizing for the first time how shaky that ground is they're arguing on, most because they just stubbornly react to what they perceive as the world unfairly bashing them. So, basically, their pride just got even more irrational. Yay.

I have to agree, Americans are becoming more defiant (and since I am an American that unfortunatly includes me by majority) our government is bashing heads with the other world powers and a large part of the country is right behind them. So basically it is not that Americans have lost their nationalism, they merely became fanatical about it. Is that what you mean?

I'm plenty proud of our country, let me say first.

Second, I'm only one person of course, but I know many people, friends and close relatives, who have joined the Army, Foreign Service, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps (like Peace Corps, but domestic) and so forth. I have friends who are involved in international business, representing our products and culture in commerce, and love it, and not just for the money, which is ample. There's a lot of community spirit out there, even if there are also many people who are cynical about the role of nations and world affairs, and so on.

Maybe you just need to look around more. ;)

From what I have seen, the country is, I would say, divided in half. You have your fiercly patriotic side who love the military. And on the other, the people view our war in Iraq with disgust, and have no desire to have any part in it.

From what I have seen, the country is, I would say, divided in half. You have your fiercly patriotic side who love the military. And on the other, the people view our war in Iraq with disgust, and have no desire to have any part in it.

An equal division of opinion is always going to be good for democracy. Better to have a debate than blind nationalism.

An equal division of opinion is always going to be good for democracy. Better to have a debate than blind nationalism.

Very true.

personaly i don't see how anyone can be proud of a place that wants to close its borders, has had as policy the demonizing of everything that doesn't kiss the ass of little green pieces of paper for the last 60 years that i know of, and adamantly refuses to remember how to do anything besides take and destroy.

well that's the government and the dominant cultural values.

as for rocks and trees and little furry creatures, well of course the're always cool everywhere.

=^^=
.../\...

From what I have seen, the country is, I would say, divided in half. You have your fiercly patriotic side who love the military. And on the other, the people view our war in Iraq with disgust, and have no desire to have any part in it.

There's more to patriotism and more to our country than the military and the war in Iraq. You can be patriotic regardless your stance on either. And you can love the military without loving war - it's there to defend us, but that's not to say that we should want to take aggressive action any more than absolutely necessary. My personal observations are that most people don't look at the country through the lens of our immediately recent actions overseas, but rather see things in a bit wider perspective. It's easy to hate anyone if you're judging them on a single action or a flawed policy decision.

There's more to patriotism and more to our country than the military and the war in Iraq. You can be patriotic regardless your stance on either. And you can love the military without loving war - it's there to defend us, but that's not to say that we should want to take aggressive action any more than absolutely necessary. My personal observations are that most people don't look at the country through the lens of our immediately recent actions overseas, but rather see things in a bit wider perspective. It's easy to hate anyone if you're judging them on a single action or a flawed policy decision.

I don't hate my country. I am just embarrassed by it! I cannot take pride in a country, in a government, that routinely embarrasses itself and then brushes it off as if nothing happened, when in reality our world opinion continues to sink.

I voted "No" because patriotism makes me sick.

I have to agree, Americans are becoming more defiant (and since I am an American that unfortunatly includes me by majority) our government is bashing heads with the other world powers and a large part of the country is right behind them. So basically it is not that Americans have lost their nationalism, they merely became fanatical about it. Is that what you mean?
Not really. In part, maybe.

I think that many people are in fact embarrassed by the course the country has taken in the last 7 years and esp. since 9/11 and who say so. Many of the politically left US posters here on NSG, for example, belong into that category.

However, overall, I think that's still a small minority, and the majority is made up of people who

1) grudgingly acknowledge that things aren't going so splendid anymore in terms of America's place in the world but who react defiantly especially to foreign criticism, by choosing to gloss over the problems in their mind and confess their patriotism even more loudly than before, probably in the irrational hope that the problems will go away then

and those who

2) deny that the international community has anything of value to say in the first place and who keep singing the old tune of the home of the brave and of freedom and liberty and whatnot, just now they sing it even louder because some overseas busybodies (and evil libruls at home) have dared to point out the glaring inconsistencies.


At least that's how it seems from afar.

Not really. In part, maybe.

I think that many people are in fact embarrassed by the course the country has taken in the last 7 years and esp. since 9/11 and who say so. Many of the politically left US posters here on NSG, for example, belong into that category.

However, overall, I think that's still a small minority, and the majority is made up of people who

1) grudgingly acknowledge that things aren't going so splendid anymore in terms of America's place in the world but who react defiantly especially to foreign criticism, by choosing to gloss over the problems in their mind and confess their patriotism even more loudly than before, probably in the irrational hope that the problems will go away then

and those who

2) deny that the international community has anything of value to say in the first place and who keep singing the old tune of the home of the brave and of freedom and liberty and whatnot, just now they sing it even louder because some overseas busybodies (and evil libruls at home) have dared to point out the glaring inconsistencies.


At least that's how it seems from afar.


I agree somewhat. Most Americans feel that this country is invincible and what the international community thinks is irrelevant; that this country can do whatever it damn well pleases. And when this creates huge problems for the country and its population; that cover it up and direct our attention at the new enemies that appear just in the nick of time.

nationalism and patriotism are ugly anyway.

nationalism and patriotism are ugly anyway.

I don't agree with that, you should have pride in your country. You shouldn't, however, have blind faith in your government and march to you death because you leaders says it is for a just cause. Pride is okay, but blind faith is not.

I don't hate my country. I am just embarrassed by it! I cannot take pride in a country, in a government, that routinely embarrasses itself and then brushes it off as if nothing happened, when in reality our world opinion continues to sink.

I agree that we aren't always good at winning the PR wars that oftentimes crop up following policy decisions. But our government has its finger in a million pies, remember - there will always be successes and failures, and always reason for pride and embarrassment at any given time. I suppose it's a matter of perspective there, too.

I agree that we aren't always good at winning the PR wars that oftentimes crop up following policy decisions. But our government has its finger in a million pies, remember - there will always be successes and failures, and always reason for pride and embarrassment at any given time. I suppose it's a matter of perspective there, too.

I suppose. I know that failures and mistakes can be expected, no government is perfect. But the Bush Administration has been a diplomatic circus of one fuckup after another. There is no breathing room left. If we screw up again, worse than we already have, we may find ourselves in yet another war or two.

I don't agree with that, you should have pride in your country. You shouldn't, however, have blind faith in your government and march to you death because you leaders says it is for a just cause. Pride is okay, but blind faith is not.

i wonder though how you think you identify with 'your' country. are you suggesting that through the accident of your birth you can legitimately share in whatever glory you believe 'your' country to have achieved before that accident happened. i've nothing against pride per se, i take pride in my own achievements and i am proud of my friends and family when they achieve, but 'my' country's achievements (and failures) have nothing to do with me whatsoever. i fail to see the association.

i wonder though how you think you identify with 'your' country. are you suggesting that through the accident of your birth you can legitimately share in whatever glory you believe 'your' country to have achieved before that accident happened. i've nothing against pride per se, i take pride in my own achievements and i am proud of my friends and family when they achieve, but 'my' country's achievements (and failures) have nothing to do with me whatsoever. i fail to see the association.

You are in association with your countries successes or failures because you live there, you are a collective majority (I am not saying that we should all be the same, you should make up your own mind) but being a citizen of a country and living there your entire life should give you cause enough to care about your countries successes or failures, because they directly and indirectly affect you.

You are in association with your countries successes or failures because you live there, you are a collective majority (I am not saying that we should all be the same, you should make up your own mind) but being a citizen of a country and living there your entire life should give you cause enough to care about your countries successes or failures, because they directly and indirectly affect you.
in a truly representative or direct democracy perhaps. they don't exist though.

in a true representative or direct democracy perhaps. they don't exist though.

They exsist in theory I suppose. But total indifference to countries affairs is ignorance in the worst. Its like looking at the world, giving it the finger, then walking away completely ignoring it the rest of the time.



EDIT:
[The metaphor is stupid but you get the point]

They exsist in theory I suppose. But total indifference to countries affairs is ignorance in the worst. Its like looking at the world, giving it the finger, then walking away completely ignoring it the rest of the time.



EDIT:
[The metaphor is stupid but you get the point]

oh i don't mean that one should ignore them, i'm just saying that in the world we live in there are no grounds for the average individual to accept any responsibility for the actions of the state. to ignore such a situation would be folly, one should work towards changing it.

oh i don't mean that one should ignore them, i'm just saying that in the world we live in there are no grounds for the average individual to accept any responsibility for the actions of the state. to ignore such a situation would be folly, one should work towards changing it.

I agree, I didn't understand what you meant originally. But I suppose there is a contradiction here, it is not a single man or woman that can change what the state does, again, it must be collective majority. And unfortunatly most Americans fit in with the collective majority that just goes along with whatever the government feeds them.

I agree, I didn't understand what you meant originally. But I suppose there is a contradiction here, it is not a single man or woman that can change what the state does, again, it must be collective majority. And unfortunatly most Americans fit in with the collective majority that just goes along with whatever the government feeds them.

i which case i would say the collective majority is partially responsible for their ignorance, which is in turn responsible for election results. but there the chain of responsibility is cut.

i which case i would say the collective majority is partially responsible for their ignorance, which is in turn responsible for election results. but there the chain of responsibility is cut.

I see your point. Because in modern democracy for anything to be done, it must be agreeable with a collective majority therefore you will not take any personal feeling of responsibility on the actions of the government.

it seems to me that government can do what it likes once it's members are elected, including manufacturing the 'will of the people'. modern democracy doesn't really have much to do with 'the people' once elections have happened.

We have to first throw off the chains of ignorance to really improve on modern democracy. (But seeing as the US educational system is in the shitter this isn't going to happen.)

I see your point. Because in modern democracy for anything to be done, it must be agreeable with a collective majority [of 'representatives'] therefore you will not take any personal feeling of responsibility on the actions of the government.

it seems to me that government can do what it likes once it's members are elected, including manufacturing the 'will of the people'. modern democracy doesn't really have much to do with 'the people' once elections have happened.

We have to first throw off the chains of ignorance to really improve on modern democracy. (But seeing as the US educational system is in the shitter this isn't going to happen.)

yup, and give the news networks a lesson in journalistic integrity.

I voted "No" because patriotism makes me sick.
I voted 'No' just because I can.

Not that I'm American, thank heavens.:eek:

I find nationalism to be quite sickening, so I vote no, and same goes for other countries.

Also, even though I voted in your poll, I am not american. You should not be limiting your poll to americans, because nationalism isn't just an american thing, and never was.

I find nationalism to be quite sickening, so I vote no, and same goes for other countries.

Also, even though I voted in your poll, I am not american. You should not be limiting your poll to americans, because nationalism isn't just an american thing, and never was.

I know, but I limited it like that because the thread actually started off as a debate about the crumbling of american pride, but it has evolved into more than that I can see.

I know, but I limited it like that because the thread actually started off as a debate about the crumbling of american pride, but it has evolved into more than that I can see.

well, you can't fight evolution.

well, you can't fight evolution.

Nope

I again agree with Infinite Revolution. I am goin to bed, I will be back on later.

it'll get back on track as more people get on-line. i'd hazard that most of the american posters won't be up this early on a saturday. it's just before 1pm here and it's pretty rare i'd be up at this time let alone 3 hours ago.

I am extremely proud of the great success of My Country.
I am extremely proud of things America has achieved since the Revolution.

I am not Proud of the latest generation (generations?) of US.

(OcceanD Default Disclaimer: whenever I talk about a Country or Group.. the Prefix "most" is to be assumed.. Like in this case "most of US")

I would add "I am not proud of my Gov".. but "I am not proud" just does not describe the full range of feelings.

it'll get back on track as more people get on-line. .

or maybe not. You can't really expect something to go against the laws of physics.

oh i don't mean that one should ignore them, i'm just saying that in the world we live in there are no grounds for the average individual to accept any responsibility for the actions of the state. to ignore such a situation would be folly, one should work towards changing it.
(emphasis mine) edit: btw, this should be taken as more general rant than personal attack.

And here we have the very reason government accountability is negligible and politicians can get away with just about anything. You, personally, are the reason for the government being the way it is today. Congratulations.

We live in a representative government - what have you done to get your voice heard and make things better? If the answer is nothing, you have absolutely no right to complain.

How often do you contact your congressman? Do you even know who your representatives are (without looking it up)? When was the last time you participated in an educational campaign to get the word out about some issue you feel strongly about? Have you ever volunteered your time to some political campaign? Done anything at all?

If you have not taken personal responsibility for the government you live under, then you have no right to complain. Even under repressive totalitarian regimes there are people who risk imprisonment or even death to fight for democratic reform - can you say you do anything beyond bitch on an online forum?

yeh... read the whole thread before you rant.

From what I have seen, the country is, I would say, divided in half. You have your fiercly patriotic side who love the military. And on the other, the people view our war in Iraq with disgust, and have no desire to have any part in it.

Not to go on a tangent, but why does every repor of our casualties warrant fanfare, fancy graphics, and another speech about how much a travesty this war is?

Why hasn't the number of enemy casualties come with this precedented display to tell us we're winning or losing the war? Typically the easiest way to win a war is to inlifct more casualties than your enemy and to cover more ground than your enemy.

I want an end to the war, though, so win already.

there is no longer a sense of nationalism

While patently false, you say that like it were a bad thing.

I don't agree with that, you should have pride in your country. You shouldn't, however, have blind faith in your government and march to you death because you leaders says it is for a just cause. Pride is okay, but blind faith is not.

Say no to blind faith, but who's to say he can see?

I What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

Well, I still take pride in our country but yes it seems a lot of people don't any more. I think the main cause of that decline is our lack leadership including the President and Congress. With all the back bighting, bickering, finger pointing, and outright corruption in Washington nothing is getting done. Problems are not getting solved and things are not getting better. I can see why some people would loose faith and pride in this county. :(:(

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

First the economy is at a record high. Not real sure about that comment.? As for the Military being the strongest, That is said because it is the most dedicated and it is one of the most advanced. The dedicated part comes from it being an all voluntary military. It still has a plenty of recruits, they are just joining at a later age. I believe because of them growing up. I was in the military and went to the first Gulf War. It sounds like you have been listening to the NEWS MEDIA way to much. Just to inform you about your NEWS MEDIA, they don't tell you that 99% of the people of Iraq love us and would like us to stay in there country to build military bases and such. They want to tell you what that 1% wants, which is to be at war all the time.
Now as for our country, yes it has become soft. What do you expect with the erosion of rights and faith. No praying in school, only specific religions can be offended, and only specific sex,and races cant be offended. You tell me why? As a nation we have started to try to not upset anyone, called politically correctness, and it is tearing this country apart. We need to go back to a country where sometimes you get your feelings hurt sometimes, but you lick your wounds and get strounger.

How is the economy getting worse when the US GDP is increasing at the rate of 3.3%? Explain the Dow jumping almost to 14k when our economy is dieing.

Of course I'm proud. We have a rich, diverse culture and one of the strongest, most advanced, and most dynamic economies in the world that provides us with a truly great standard of living. Our country is free and we are able to do and be many things that are not possible in much of the rest of the world. We're not perfect by any stretch, but if anything my pride in this country motivates me to try and solve those problems to make us the best we can possibly be.

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

A better question: Why should we have nationalism?

I am ashamed of America's foreign policies and I am always upset about having only a mostly secular government (when it should be totally secular.)

I am still patriotic though. People only notice foreign policies and things like that but I am proud of my countries economy and the standard of living that we Americans enjoy. Even the homeless can make better livings than a lot of people in poorer countries.

We don't have to worry about terrorist blowing us up when we go to the market, we are allowed to complain about our government, even hold public protests. People just like to complain, which makes sense; after all, you want to bring attention to the shitty stuff to change it...all the good stuff can stay just like it is.

Edit: yeah, what Vetalia said a few post before me.

I think the first sign of a good country is that you can yell, "THIS COUNTRY SUCKS!" on a street corner without being killed/arrested

Largest GDP in the world and ranked thirty-something in health-care. Nope, nothing to be proud of.

Largest GDP in the world and ranked thirty-something in health-care. Nope, nothing to be proud of.

Only because those who do the ranking, favor it when the government supplies everyone with it, but don't care for the standard of it.

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

I was under the impression that American Pride was something you did in elementary school ...or the midwest

Only because those who do the ranking, favor it when the government supplies everyone with it, but don't care for the standard of it.
I think some of the statistics are fairly concrete. Being ranked only 28th in the world for lowest infant mortality rates and only 29th in the world for highest life expectancy are based on pretty solid data. Bias doesn't figure into it.

From what I have seen, the country is, I would say, divided in half. You have your fiercly patriotic side who love the military. And on the other, the people view our war in Iraq with disgust, and have no desire to have any part in it.

And I would say the second group may care more about their country then the first group sometimes

Not wishing to be in a meaningless war and see people get killed does not mean that they do not love their country or the people in it

Only because those who do the ranking, favor it when the government supplies everyone with it, but don't care for the standard of it.

So you claim ...

I'm an American, and I don't see the point in patriotism. We should stop teaching our children that the United States is some sort of all-powerfull entity for all that is good, and start teaching what it really is: a country with a government which should be constantly improved.

I'm an American, and I don't see the point in patriotism. Like I said before I am Proud of my Country achievements.

But I am against Nationalism/Patriotism.
Because Todays definition of being a Patriot involves more than just being Proud of the good things we achieve.

They now say that to be a Patriot.. you must support anything the Generals/soldiers of your Country do.

My answer is thanks, but No thanks. I am not taking that bus (http://www.americasupportsyou.com/AmericaSupportsYou/FlashFWSpecial/091206_update/FWSpecial6.html).

......most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country

What, because I don't run off and join the military means I have no pride in my country?

Utter BS. There are other ways to show pride and honor other than wearing a badge on your arm.

Proud of some things, ashamed of others.

We're doing shameful foreign policy, and this government's domestic policy is also a disgrace, but that can be altered every 4 years, which is something to be proud of.

We have very strong and vibrant rights, which is a point of pride, and are also preeminent in the world in terms of power and influence, which is definitely something to feel pride in.

The country hasn't always done what is right with that power and influence, but it is nevertheless a good thing that we have it instead of our rivals or enemies.

I agree somewhat. Most Americans feel that this country is invincible and what the international community thinks is irrelevant; that this country can do whatever it damn well pleases. And when this creates huge problems for the country and its population; that cover it up and direct our attention at the new enemies that appear just in the nick of time.
ok first of all im an american and i really dont know how many of you are but several things

1) dont judge every american by the government we stand by

2) dont say that we think our country is invincible you might run into people who think that, but those are probably the little 6-10 yr. old kids in online video games who don't understand politics

3) i am very patriotic and i am consdering joining the armed services so dont say we lost our patriotism

4) im gonna get hated for this but, before you tell us we are making mistakes just because of the several things that our government has done and saying that we are ignorant, Where do you learn that we are ignorant? And whenever did your country suddenly clean the slate and have a perfect record? Our country has many blights, including manifest destiney, the civil war, vietnam, etc. But where is your countries innocence.

ok first of all im an american and i really dont know how many of you arelast poll i remember .. there waswas 50% or 50.01 % of US.

I think that a lot of the things Americans are scared by are things that were far stronger before World War II.

.. most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. You are saying it like if it was a bad thing.

I am Proud of my Country over all achievements.
I value Freedom and Justice.

AND

I do NOT want to join the US military.
I am against Patriotism/Nationalism.
I have a lot of respect for any of US refusing to fight in Iraq.

I am proud of my country when it does the right thing, and ashamed of it when it misbehaves. I do, however, feel that, as a voting citizen, I have a stake in the behavior of my nation, as a parent does, and I must expect the best out of it. I reject the concept of American Exceptionalism outright. However, I call on every American to seek to be the best (most morally upstanding, most willing to lend a helping hand, ready to lead the world to do the right thing because of our hard work, not because we are special), because trying to do anything less than that is lazy.

Right now, I am deeply disappointed in my nation, but I beleive that we can still save it from the poison of Neo-Conservatism and the poison of a corrupt Military-Industrial Iron Triangle.

lol.

I love how everything is blamed on neocons when hardly anyone describes them self as neo-conservatism or if it exists AT ALL.

I fail to see why pride in one's country is bad.

lol.

I love how everything is blamed on neocons when hardly anyone describes them self as neo-conservatism or if it exists AT ALL.

Neo-conservative, or Neo-Straussian (whichever term you prefer) policies have been the core of post-Reagan Republican international policy. While Neo-Cons may or may not be numerous, they hold a highly disproportionate amount of power within the Republican party. Most of the Bush Admin's origional cabinet was either unrelated to international politics, or a member of the Project for a New American Century.

Concepts like American Exceptionalism are poison to America and it's foreign policy, and we should excise this poison.

I'm on the fence on it, but I'd rather not live in a socialist or fascist country at least.

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

I answered no because I take pride in my state, my town, my city, my region! But America is such a diverse place that I can't consider a term like "America" or "American" could adequately unite me from New York City and the bible belt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QRyr3_nCF4

I love my country, but I hate the way it's being run.

'The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.'

Kill Bush, then you'll have something to be proud of.

No, I'm quite disillusioned at the moment and fed up with the US.

I do wonder why our own people, in the US., aren't proud of our country when I have had the experience to run to other people from other countries that are proud of our country. Just the other day I had to do a security detail for my Police Department and met an Iranian who converted from Islam to Christianity. He was so excited to be in a country that would not prosecute him for speaking out about things. He told me that he was so great full to be in America and that he wanted to join our military so he could help be an interpreter but he said he must get his citizenship first. He said that it was tough getting citizenship in the US but he respected that. His excitement made me wounder why I had let the little things bother me so much. Be careful criticizing what you don't under stand there may be more to it that you know. If you are interested in the Iranian I spoke with here is his web site: http://www.farshadazadi.com/ . Beware don't go to the web site if you do not want to here about GOD. One last thing: this country may not be the biggest, the greatest, the most powerful, or everything you believe it should be but you still have a RIGHT to voice your opinion. Some people wish they could just do that one thing. On the 4th of July pray for those who don't have that RIGHT and give you heart to help them.

'The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.'

Kill Bush, then you'll have something to be proud of.

No.

We don't assassinate our leaders if we simply don't like them.

We vote them out.

If the typical American wasn't so oblivious, arrogant, and dumb, I would take a small amount of pride in my country

If American foreign policy was better than "You're with us or your against", "Suck our cock, or suffer the consequences", then I would take a little more pride.

If our rights weren't so easily thrown away, and our laws about certain things were not so stupid, I would take more pride.

If we were not capitalist dogs ran by corporations, I could take much pride in my country.

Lastly, if we had the highest standards of living, quality of life, health care, education, intelligence, and freedom, then I could have a very high level of pride and love for my country.

Great words comrade Eurgrovia, me and you both( AND IM AMERICAN)

american history is an embarrassment. even the constitution is a screw-up compared to the articles on confederation.

I think of my country in the same way I would think of my father if he had, in the last four years or so, become a violent alcoholic in response to some personal tragedy. Everything this country has to be proud of is in the past, and hopefully in the future, if we can get it into rehab before it's too late.

This country is founded on great principles. We have recently come loose of that foundation, and if we do not find it again, we will fall faster than the towers did.

Because we are one people and one planet, the cosmos does not recognize international borders or boundaries. In space our nationalities are as insignificant and minor as the earth.

Because we are one people and one planet, the cosmos does not recognize international borders or boundaries. In space our nationalities are as insignificant and minor as the earth.

But here on earth, it does matter.

I am an American, I am an Independent, or a Democrat when circumstances are profitable, and I live in the southeast part of the country. Lately I have been thinking, does the average American really have anything to be proud of about his/her country. I believe we don't, at least not anymore. Our country is unbelievably ignorant, and we are doing nothing to help the problem, our economy is getting worse, and for having the strongest military in the world (supposedly) most young men and women have no wish to join the U.S. military, there is no longer a sense of nationalism, or honor in serving ones country. What happened? Why can Americans no longer take pride in their country?

See: Bush White House, Fred Phelps, "moral majority", political correctness re: illegal aliens...

american history is an embarrassment. even the constitution is a screw-up compared to the articles on confederation.

The latter of which worked so well...

If the typical American wasn't so oblivious, arrogant, and dumb, I would take a small amount of pride in my country

If American foreign policy was better than "You're with us or your against", "Suck our cock, or suffer the consequences", then I would take a little more pride.

If our rights weren't so easily thrown away, and our laws about certain things were not so stupid, I would take more pride.

If we were not capitalist dogs ran by corporations, I could take much pride in my country.

Lastly, if we had the highest standards of living, quality of life, health care, education, intelligence, and freedom, then I could have a very high level of pride and love for my country.

American Pride died the day a cretinous fratboy who bankrupted three businesses was chosen to lead the country by a faceless mass who worships him as a flawless messiah.

You know I came to this thread expecting to do some America bashing, but i'm pleasantly surprised (and pleased) that instead I found a lot of intelligent people who are aware of their countries shortcoming and bad image worldwide. Maybe there's some hope for your country yet lol