NationStates Jolt Archive

I will go out on a limb here and say that almost everyone here knows at least a little about history. (Maybe thats a mistake?) Anyway-as you all may or may not know, everything that has happened in history has had a direct affect on the world we now live in. What if certain events had happened differently, and the path of human history was altered, what would the world be like today. Such as....

The Persian Empire defeated Alexander the Great and conquered Macadonia.

The Roman Empire never collapsed.

The Aztec Empire wasn't defeated by the Spanish.

The United States of America never formed.

Hitler died in World War I.

Just to name a few. How would a dramatic change in History alter our current perception?

Oh, goddamnit! I just realized my spelling error. Shit! It is supposed to be Effects not affects.



















?

Well I probably wouldn't be watching Late Night with Conan at 11:36 CST every night.

That would really suck.

well I'm not going to go through them with great detail because its been done to death and posting 5 book sized posts wouldn't be fun

1) erm...well Persia was more or less going to shit anyway so it would of collapsed pretty quickly after conquering Greece leaving Greece more or less as it was (though middle eastern culture and stories would be slightly different)

2) (assuming where talking western Roman empire) impossible but I'd say technological development would of slowed and we would be looking at a situation more or less like Imperial China (and no we wouldn't of had an industrial revolution, there was no real interest in such machines when slaves are readily available) course it all depends on how the barbarian migration was dealt with and how long till the unavoidable problems between the eastern and western half's of the empire would emerge

3) Aztec empire would of crumbled and then been picked to pieces by the imperial powers of the day there was no avoiding this, once Europeans had made contact with natives disease did the rest

4) America becomes the new Australia (or stays however you look at it) Britain fails to get complete control of Australia or the territories that would of made up America's east coast and South (the French monarchy would of lasted a good few more years as well though I doubt revolution would of been avoided)

odds are the British empire could of pulled through both world wars and the Napoleonic wars allot better and maybe avoided them entirely

5) no change

course I'm only rushing through this

well I'm not going to go through them with great detail because its been done to death and posting 5 book sized posts wouldn't be fun

1) erm...well Persia was more or less going to shit anyway so it would of collapsed pretty quickly after conquering Greece leaving Greece more or less as it was (though middle eastern culture and stories would be slightly different)

2) (assuming where talking western Roman empire) impossible but I'd say technological development would of slowed and we would be looking at a situation more or less like Imperial China (and no we wouldn't of had an industrial revolution, there was no real interest in such machines when slaves are readily available) course it all depends on how the barbarian migration was dealt with and how long till the unavoidable problems between the eastern and western half's of the empire would emerge

3) Aztec empire would of crumbled and then been picked to pieces by the imperial powers of the day there was no avoiding this, once Europeans had made contact with natives disease did the rest

4) America becomes the new Australia (or stays however you look at it) Britain fails to get complete control of Australia or the territories that would of made up America's east coast and South (the French monarchy would of lasted a good few more years as well though I doubt revolution would of been avoided)

odds are the British empire could of pulled through both world wars and the Napoleonic wars allot better and maybe avoided them entirely

5) no change

course I'm only rushing through this

Interesting I hope you pick up on these later with greater detail.

Every day I wonder how the world would be different if I had had jam with my toast instead of jelly :(

Every day I wonder how the world would be different if I had had jam with my toast instead of jelly :(

jelly on toast:confused:

Every day I wonder how the world would be different if I had had jam with my toast instead of jelly :(

I thought they were the same thing.

5) no change



I would have to disagree, maybe Germany would have still become a fascist government but I don't think another leader would have risen to do the same amount as destruction as Hitler


3) Aztec empire would of crumbled and then been picked to pieces by the imperial powers of the day there was no avoiding this, once Europeans had made contact with natives disease did the rest


Lets say in another universe the native Americans did have resistance to European diseases, think about it us white men would have to trade with them as equals instead of mass genocide :(

I would have to disagree, maybe Germany would have still become a fascist government but I don't think another leader would have risen to do the same amount as destruction as Hitler

WWII would of certainly still taken place, the issue with Germans being oppressed in Poland would of brought the Germans into war one way or another, of course what I think your referring to is the discrimination and later killing of "political enemies" by the Nazi regime.

Hitler may of had an incredible hatred of Jews but the discrimination and "stab in the back" policies of the party where already in affect before Hitler joined the ranks and it only takes a group being isolated and demonized to create genocide (something which history has a sad habit of repeating)

edit:
Lets say in another universe the native Americans did have resistance to European diseases, think about it us white men would have to trade with them as equals instead of mass genocide :(

there still wouldn't be any particular change in terms of imperialism, no Amerindians troops could match Europeans with gunpowder and horses all that would happen would be a slightly more expensive imperialist age

a big change however would be in labor, with large population already available in the America's the African slave trade would of been slowed or even non-existent to be replaced by native Americans forced to work there own land

Hitler may of had an incredible hatred of Jews but the discrimination and "stab in the back" policies of the party where already in affect before Hitler joined the ranks and it only takes a group being isolated and demonized to create genocide (something which history has a sad habit of repeating)

Yes but would another leader have been as successful in leading them

WWII would of certainly still taken place, the issue with Germans being oppressed in Poland would of brought the Germans into war one way or another, of course what I think your referring to is the discrimination and later killing of "political enemies" by the Nazi regime.

Hitler may of had an incredible hatred of Jews but the discrimination and "stab in the back" policies of the party where already in affect before Hitler joined the ranks and it only takes a group being isolated and demonized to create genocide (something which history has a sad habit of repeating)

I agree with you about Hitler and the Nazi Party. It may be an un-PC and maybe inflammatory thing to say, but it could be that we were better off in the long run by having Hitler take Germany to war, rather than some other, more intelligent, more sane, leader doing the same. Germany was a step ahead of us at that time, and if he hadn't been a highly-fallible leader, some other more capable dictator could have caused us twice the trouble.

I think more of an impact would have come through if Xerxes managed to subdue and annex the city states of ancient Greece in his invasion, rather than Persia just annexing Macedonia. Macedonia actually was allied to the Persians in the first invasion (the king of Macedonia commanded the Persians at Platea). Ancient Greece is the forerunner of modern Western civilization, democracy, law and constitution all came from the city states. The City states themselves, or the Polis, was the forerunner of the later Medieval castle state system after the fall of Rome. I have to say if Greek civilization would have been destroyed, the current world would be much different, most likely more oriental.

I agree with you about Hitler and the Nazi Party. It may be an un-PC and maybe inflammatory thing to say, but it could be that we were better off in the long run by having Hitler take Germany to war, rather than some other, more intelligent, more sane, leader doing the same. Germany was a step ahead of us at that time, and if he hadn't been a highly-fallible leader, some other more capable dictator could have caused us twice the trouble.

Really? Hitler turned a country with a collapsed economy and turned it into a military superpower that threatened to take over the entire world

Really? Hitler turned a country with a collapsed economy and turned it into a military superpower that threatened to take over the entire world
Hardly, he actually never really got close, and once he declared war on the US it was really over. A leader who would have waited his time and built up German military strength would have been a greater strength. A German dictator who waited to have jet engines and guided missiles mobilized on aircraft carriers, before the West had jet engines, and Panther II's etc, would have been a greater threat.

Really? Hitler turned a country with a collapsed economy and turned it into a military superpower that threatened to take over the entire world

Hitler also made several major tactical errors when he should have left the military decisions to the military. He had a workable truce with Russia and blew it. He failed to prevent the Japanese from attacking the U.S., when he rightly knew it would cause problems for him. He didn't work well with Mussolini, and ultimately had to bail Italy out in Greece, which delayed his attack on Russia, leaving the German Army in the snow. I'm not a military historian, but every one I've heard speak on WWII has noted his deficiencies as Commander-In-Chief of the German Army. Hitler had great propagandists at his disposal, but another leader could have propelled Germany farther.

Yes but would another leader have been as successful in leading them

some other more capable dictator could have caused us twice the trouble.

this I have to agree however the death of the third Reich was going to come from within fairly soon if not from outside, Hermann Göring had made a mess of the economy during his time in that office (though how much more damage could be done is hard to guess) if anything the early Nazi victories kept the nation going with vast gold reserves flowing into Germany as soon as a long, costly war of attrition had ensued in Russia it was all over

If the United States never rebelled against the British, we may not even become a commonwealth country, as the US was a major force in forcing the European countries to decolonize.

In other words, Britain would probably be the world government. But don't expect democracy to be around.

In other words, Britain would probably be the world government. But don't expect democracy to be around.

well all the colonies would have a parliament, they just wouldn't be able to do much in terms of independence (course most of the planets foreign policy decided by us Brits would be amusing/horrible)

well all the colonies would have a parliament, they just wouldn't be able to do much in terms of independence (course most of the planets foreign policy decided by us Brits would be amusing/horrible)


No need for foreign policy when you control the world!

No need for foreign policy when you control the world!

like we'd want it all :p (http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/graphics/1996graphics/teamap.jpeg)