NationStates Jolt Archive

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?

I think you need to look at the two countries mentioned in your post and decide if you really want to emulate them.

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?
coming from both a drum corp and marching band background I find them interesting sure technical skill has always impressed me and some of the bands are very good

I dislike all float parades they are just so damn booring specialy sense they just seem to be all advertising now anyways

That being said I personally would prefer to watch an all marching band/corps parade much more then military parades any day of the week, we have several of them in the area and it soon will be the season for them

I think you need to look at the two countries mentioned in your post and decide if you really want to emulate them.

Why would enjoying the parade mean a desire to emulate them?

Why would enjoying the parade mean a desire to emulate them?

*Shrugs*

I'm tired. My logic neurons aren't all firing.

But I think that the military as a whole shouldn't really be something you take a great deal of pride in.. it should be there to *protect* what you take pride in.

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?

I think it's a waste of time. A pointless display.

I think you need to look at the two countries mentioned in your post and decide if you really want to emulate them.

Dude, I just said they look cool, who says I want to emulate the countries themselves?

Dude, I just said they look cool, who says I want to emulate the countries themselves?

Tired. Neurons. NOT FIRING.

I'm not going to say this again.

*Shrugs*

I'm tired. My logic neurons aren't all firing.

But I think that the military as a whole shouldn't really be something you take a great deal of pride in.. it should be there to *protect* what you take pride in.

Some of the performances take a lot of technical skill, along with the military men also usually come their bands. I dont know about other countries but our marine corps marching band in the USA is a frigging top notch band


As for tired I understand I have been at one job or the other for the past 36 hours and just about ready to start another shift in 15 minuits

Some of the performances take a lot of technical skill, along with the military men also usually come their bands. I dont know about other countries but our marine corps marching band in the USA is a frigging top notch band

I kind of feel bad for the Marine band.

"You are the best of the best! You are efficient, you are ruthless, you have no fear and no hesitation. You are the best goddamn trombone player out there!"

Anyway, I can't really speak for military parades, since the only ones I've seen have been in stock footage of the USSR. But I'm not much of a parade guy anyway.. the crowd never seems to understand that you can see the parade much quicker by walking against it rather than standing in one place.

I know exactly how the OP feels. I am perhaps the ultimate internationalist, but I'm also a military geek, so that doesn't stop me from watching video/movie footage of the nationalistic Russian/Soviet Victory Day parades again and again. Greatest military parade ever.

It's also interesting watching Iranian and Pakistani parades.

I don't like the nationalistic connotations, but they are impressive.

I kind of feel bad for the Marine band.

"You are the best of the best! You are efficient, you are ruthless, you have no fear and no hesitation. You are the best goddamn trombone player out there!"

Anyway, I can't really speak for military parades, since the only ones I've seen have been in stock footage of the USSR. But I'm not much of a parade guy anyway.. the crowd never seems to understand that you can see the parade much quicker by walking against it rather than standing in one place.

Personally I often walk WITH it at least at band parades a full show usually takes from 2 -7 blocks (for the most part about 7ish minuits at the high school level)

Otherwise i just sit and drink a beer :) much more fun to relax with some friends and family and watch it

Edit: As for feeling bad for them i know one person that specifically signed up to qualify to be in it (which he did he was awesome) most of the time these are people with the goal of making the band trying to get into it

Personally I often walk WITH it at least at band parades a full show usually takes from 2 -7 blocks (for the most part about 7ish minuits at the high school level)

Otherwise i just sit and drink a beer :) much more fun to relax with some friends and family and watch it

I'm not a "family and friends" type of guy.

I know exactly how the OP feels. I am perhaps the ultimate internationalist, but I'm also a military geek, so that doesn't stop me from watching video/movie footage of the nationalistic Russian/Soviet Victory Day parades again and again. Greatest military parade ever.

It's also interesting watching Iranian and Pakistani parades.

I don't like the nationalistic connotations, but they are impressive.

Yeah I just watched this Iranian one on youtube, it wasn't bad.

for all the horrible nationalism they stand for

What's wrong with nationalism?

Anyways, I like military parades. If done with the right amount of grandeur, that is. Nothing like the marches of old USSR and the 3rd Reich. See some archive footage for those, and you'll see what I mean.

What's wrong with nationalism?

Anyways, I like military parades. If done with the right amount of grandeur, that is. Nothing like the marches of old USSR and the 3rd Reich. See some archive footage for those, and you'll see what I mean.

I'd like to turn that question around and ask whats right with it? Or perhaps whats good about it?

What's wrong with nationalism?

Anyways, I like military parades. If done with the right amount of grandeur, that is. Nothing like the marches of old USSR and the 3rd Reich. See some archive footage for those, and you'll see what I mean.

Nationalism is dangerous and alienating, it breeds a sense of superiority among one nation over others.

Nationalism is dangerous and alienating, it breeds a sense of superiority among one nation over others.

See Germany circa 1919-1945.

Also see most European countries between the 15th and 20th centuries.

See Germany circa 1919-1945.

Also see most European countries between the 15th and 20th centuries.

Well, I'm a nationalist. I am very much proud of being a Norwegian. But unlike the hardcore fanatics that give nationalism a bad rep I do not view Norway as superiour to any nation. Better in some respects, yes, but also inferiour in some respects.

The nationalism you people talk about is the kind of nationalism you find amongst neo-nazis who call themselves nationalists to avoid getting their asses kicked.

Well, I'm a nationalist. I am very much proud of being a Norwegian. But unlike the hardcore fanatics that give nationalism a bad rep I do not view Norway as superiour to any nation. Better in some respects, yes, but also inferiour in some respects.

The nationalism you people talk about is the kind of nationalism you find amongst neo-nazis who call themselves nationalists to avoid getting their asses kicked.

Naa I disagree, any nationalism seems sorta strange to me. Think about it, why should we feel proud about what is basicaly an acident,we don't choose where we are born, but yet if we are seen to feel no national pride, and even pride in the city of your birth we are made to feel like the odd ones ot.

I justt don't get it.

Why exactly should we feel this sort of pride?

See Germany circa 1919-1945.

Also see most European countries between the 15th and 20th centuries.

See: The World and it's entire history.

you mention north korea and china in your post, as well as mentioning "all the horrible nationalism they stand for"

news flash

North Korea and china are the opposite of nationalist - they are communist..

completly different, nationalists = Nazi's and Fascists

so there

you mention north korea and china in your post, as well as mentioning "all the horrible nationalism they stand for"

news flash

North Korea and china are the opposite of nationalist - they are communist..

completly different, nationalists = Nazi's and Fascists

so there

That is so wrong I don't know where to start...

That is so wrong I don't know where to start...

Start gently, only 7 post in, lets not scare em off!

you mention north korea and china in your post, as well as mentioning "all the horrible nationalism they stand for"

news flash

North Korea and china are the opposite of nationalist - they are communist..

completly different, nationalists = Nazi's and Fascists

so there

They are hardly communist, you really need to take a better look at them. They display far more nationalistic trends than other countries.

I find nationalism pointless and silly, our birth locations are an accident, and to glorify that and its arbitrary boundaries compared to other arbitrary boundaries of nationstates is just nonsensical. The only thing I could be nationalistic about would be language, but only because I dislike the other dialects of English that have become more prevalent, I don't value it other different languages like French and Chinese, just over American.

Marx himself said that democracy would eventually evolve to communism, that's if you follow the dialectic line. NK is less of a socialist state than it is the personal estate and fiefdom of King Kim. I would say Cuba is a good example of socialism, but the best examples are social democracies in Europe. Marxists these days need to stop saying that revising his work is bad, someone needs to update communism.

I find nationalism pointless and silly, our birth locations are an accident, and to glorify that and its arbitrary boundaries compared to other arbitrary boundaries of nationstates is just nonsensical. The only thing I could be nationalistic about would be language, but only because I dislike the other dialects of English that have become more prevalent, I don't value it other different languages like French and Chinese, just over American.

It's one thing to glorify, quite another to feel pride. By your reasoning, it's just as silly to be proud of ones own achivements, because they too are something of an accident. After all, what if you were born with an interest in swimming instead of football(soccer to you yanks)?

It's one thing to glorify, quite another to feel pride. By your reasoning, it's just as silly to be proud of ones own achivements, because they too are something of an accident. After all, what if you were born with an interest in swimming instead of football(soccer to you yanks)?

I am not saying you individually or as a wider community should take pride collectively in something, even at a national level. I was just pointing out that it shouldn't go to the extent of viewing other peoples as less than your people.

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?

I think that it's along the same lines as can a Christian enjoy secular music and movies, can conservatives enjoy an actor's work even though he is as liberal as the day is long? I say yes, I do like the precision of the countrys parades. I will go so far as to say that I watched the funerals of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Gerald Ford and enjoyed them because of the military precision of it all. And let's not forget that every year we have something called Veterans Day, and isn't that somewhat military like?

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?

If I see one, I walk the other way. Thankfully, I haven't seen any ever since the US troops were moslty withdrawn from my home town.
I detest absolutely everything they stand for.

It's one thing to glorify, quite another to feel pride. By your reasoning, it's just as silly to be proud of ones own achivements, because they too are something of an accident. After all, what if you were born with an interest in swimming instead of football(soccer to you yanks)?

All my achievements I have worked for, even with an inate interest in swimming it still requires many hours of practice to achieve the standard you want. Simply being born in a country is not an achievement and thus doesn't deserve pride.

I was just pointing out that it shouldn't go to the extent of viewing other peoples as less than your people.

And, like I said, I am a nationalist, and I do not view other nations or peoples as less "worthy" than my own. Are we clear now?

Nationalism is like religion, there are several "level"/kinds.

And, like I said, I am a nationalist, and I do not view other nations or peoples as less "worthy" than my own. Are we clear now?

Nationalism is like religion, there are several "level"/kinds.

Why are you a nationalist, what is it about the accident of your birth are you easpecily proud of?

And, like I said, I am a nationalist, and I do not view other nations or peoples as less "worthy" than my own. Are we clear now?

Nationalism is like religion, there are several "level"/kinds.

Most religions will tell you that their's is the only true one.
And they proselytise.

Some of the performances take a lot of technical skill, along with the military men also usually come their bands. I dont know about other countries but our marine corps marching band in the USA is a frigging top notch band


As for tired I understand I have been at one job or the other for the past 36 hours and just about ready to start another shift in 15 minuits

have u seen the british military bands now trheir good!

completly different, nationalists = Nazi's and Fascists

communism =/= fascism.

communism =/= fascism.

Don't be a fool.

Why are you a nationalist, what is it about the accident of your birth are you easpecily proud of?


Not the fact that I was born in Norway. *sigh*

Let's take a few examples, shall we?

-Norway developed much of the tech and techniques used in deepsea offshore oil drilling

-Norway has a large and fairly efficient system of public pensions and such, so as to avoid people ending on the streets because they got fired or had an accident that prevents them from working

-Norway is a beautiful country to live in

Not very exhaustive, but not something to sneer at either. Trying to explain it to someone who can't "understand" it however, is like describing colour to a blind man.

I have just been thinking recently, for all the horrible nationalism they stand for, I find military parades quite inspiring to watch, when I say military parades I mean the goose stepping troops, the tanks, flags, saluting generals and national anthems. North Korea and China seem to do them quite well, the articulate marching and moves, there quite amazing.

What do you think?

I like the ones they have in Brazil and Trinidad. Some interesting miltiary technology on display...

Not the fact that I was born in Norway. *sigh*

Let's take a few examples, shall we?

-Norway developed much of the tech and techniques used in deepsea offshore oil drilling

-Norway has a large and fairly efficient system of public pensions and such, so as to avoid people ending on the streets because they got fired or had an accident that prevents them from working

-Norway is a beautiful country to live in

Not very exhaustive, but not something to sneer at either. Trying to explain it to someone who can't "understand" it however, is like describing colour to a blind man.


Heh okay thats a nice list, but you are right, consider me a blindman.

You have listed a few things that your fellow country men have done. But have not explained why one should feel proud of that.

What did you have to do with any of this? How is it correct to feel pride for the accomplishments of others just because they were born in the same country you were?

Can I in reality feel proud to be human, because Marie Curie was also human?

Does it then go the other way, should all Austrians feel ashamed of being Austrian?

You have listed a few things that your fellow country men have done. But have not explained why one should feel proud of that.

So the history of your forebear is not something to be proud of? For the sake of argument, I'll assume you're a Brit. Does the journeys of Cook mean nothing to you? How about Britains staunch defiance in the face of Hitler Germany even when Britain stood alone?

How is that for clearing it up?

So the history of your forebear is not something to be proud of? For the sake of argument, I'll assume you're a Brit. Does the journeys of Cook mean nothing to you? How about Britains staunch defiance in the face of Hitler Germany even when Britain stood alone?

How is that for clearing it up?

How is that? Not all that, really. You are correct, I didn't know Cook his journeys are just a history lesson for me, I wasn't alive during the second world war. My great grandad died during the first world war. He was a New Zealander, if not for his pride, I could have been born in a country less populated. Am I proud that he died in some trench in Yepres? No why should I be?


I'm glad about the defence of Britian, I pay homage to those that died, but feel pride?

Not at all. Why would anybody want to feel proud about war? In fact it is such pride in your country that breeds war, nope I feel nowt but shame when my fellow countrymen go to war for the sake of pride.

So the history of your forebear is not something to be proud of? For the sake of argument, I'll assume you're a Brit. Does the journeys of Cook mean nothing to you? How about Britains staunch defiance in the face of Hitler Germany even when Britain stood alone?

How is that for clearing it up?

Well, to follow the line of that argument, how does it make you feel to know that Britain invented the concentration camp, is directly responsible for the extinction of several species (dodos, anyone?), killed throves of people for religious reasons (Catholics), and was directly involved in the slave trade for centuries?
Or do you only aknowledge the achievements of Brits in the past?

As a Scotsman, hence British, I don't really have any connection to Cook, nor do I feel any kind of "pride" since really is he just a historical figure in books I read in the Library.

As for Britain's staunch defense against Germany, I suppose I am glad that my grandfathers generation did not capitulate to Nazi Germany since I feel I would not like to have been brought up in a fascist Britain, but it was my grandfathers generations achievement. I can't feel proud of something I had no part in.

Besides. Britain never stood against Germany alone. In the RAF, BEF and Royal Navy served Free French, Czechs, Belgians, Danes, Norwegians, Poles, Canadians, Australians to name a few. Not to mention the colonial troops of Indo-China and Africa.

Here we have a nice discussion how to define nationalism, patriotism, pride or random and theese things.
For me - as a German - nationalism is definitely a negative word. Becaus it implies not only "pride" but valueing others to be less worthy. Hence, commonly the term "patiotism" is used when you point out that you are happy with "your" nation's standards. But when I look to the US where the Iraq war was supported by a patriotsm wave I would see patriotsm as pride of your nation incuding ignorance of all the others. It's not that much better.
Certainly, I am happy to live in central Europe, in a democracy, in a working welfare system and mainly in a free state. An certainly, it is just the throw of God's dice that let me live here. But when you start to think and have an opinion, you have some influence. So the state is also yours.
Finally, as your personal influence is somewhat low, when being allowed to vote only twice within four years, I like to play NSG....

And I don't like parades as I don't like armed people. Unfortunately there must be some of them to protect the real values of tolerance, freedom... Let us thank to these guys but not glorify them. In our time it is may be enough to have one guy at the button. No one will start a war on us when being afraid of being eliminated.
I think a parade is a peer group building tool in case of a lack of other values to be proud of.

i think they're laughable.

If your a ruthless African dictator, you can also use the tanks in the parade to run over people who need to be eliminated, mostly high ranking generals loyal to your regime.

I love them, I just wished they existed in the US so I could see one first hand.

Besides. Britain never stood against Germany alone. In the RAF, BEF and Royal Navy served Free French, Czechs, Belgians, Danes, Norwegians, Poles, Canadians, Australians to name a few. Not to mention the colonial troops of Indo-China and Africa.

And did either of those nations actually declare war on Germany and do more than send the odd supplies or voluntaire?

You have a fav. football team don't you? You never feel proud when they win, even if you're not on the team? Nationalism is the "same", merely on a larger scale.

I am perhaps the ultimate internationalist

Your signature describes you as 'NSG's official Scotsman'. Setting aside for the moment the question of who voted you into such a lofty post, does describing yourself as the 'official' representative of a nation not sort of invalidate your claim to being 'the ultimate internationalist'? That's not meant as a personal attack, by the way, it's just an observation :)

I often think of myself as being the ultimate internationalist, too, but there's a little voice at the back of my head that whispers that it just aint so. Instead, I am perhaps the ultimate hypocrite:

I want to see a 'one-world' solution to almost every problem I see, and yet I have an intense pride in my Scottish nationality.

I like to think that I am tolerant of other views, and that everyone should have a say in what goes on, and yet I no longer have any patience for religious world-views and want them excluded from any policy-making body.

I have next to no interest in money, and yet my lack of financial motivation is only viable because my wife earns a very nice salary. (Possibly makes me a leech, more than a hypocrite, but it rankles somewhere in my mind).

Hmm.. this wasn't meant to turn into the kind of self-critique that it is in danger of becoming, so I'll stop it.


On the matter of the OP, I find myself with a sort of 'meh' ambivalence to military parades. I see them as something of an anachronism, a throwback to the days before mass media and satellite intelligence when the only way to demonstrate your military might was to march them past your population. In today's world they just look to me like sad chest-beating, a criminal waste of money that - no matter which nation it is that is putting them on - just look like a watered down version of the opening ceremony at the Olympics.

I have nothing against other parades per se, since they are often staged to bolster support for some cause or other. That, for me, makes the difference... I see no point to military parades.

Taking pride in one's nation is no different that taking pride in the schievements of one's favorite sportsteam and their victories. It's merely on a larger scale.

Taking pride in one's nation is no different that taking pride in the schievements of one's favorite sportsteam and their victories. It's merely on a larger scale.

You're absolutely right - it's just as pointless, only more so.

I enjoy watching Military parades, and taking part in them. When you are on parade with the band playing and crowds clapping then it makes you feel 100 feet high and incredably proud.

I find millitary prades really inspriring. I saw one of Soviet troops marching in front of Stalin, then a pile of tanks went by, and some artillery, whic was followed by missile launchers. Damn cool or what!!!
:sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper:

I find millitary prades really inspriring. I saw one of Soviet troops marching in front of Stalin, then a pile of tanks went by, and some artillery, whic was followed by missile launchers. Damn cool or what!!!
:sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper:

*yawns*

Did you get Stalin's autograph?

I enjoy watching Military parades, and taking part in them. When you are on parade with the band playing and crowds clapping then it makes you feel 100 feet high and incredably proud.

Well, some people will clap for anything.