NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-women6jun06,1,6178058,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

The rules are different here. The same U.S. government that heightened public outrage against the Taliban by decrying the mistreatment of Afghan women prizes the oil-slicked Saudi friendship and even offers wan praise for Saudi elections in which women are banned from voting. All U.S. fast-food franchises operating here, not just Starbucks, make women stand in separate lines. U.S.-owned hotels don't let women check in without a letter from a company vouching for her ability to pay; women checking into hotels alone have long been regarded as prostitutes.
[...]
The men are stuck, too. Over coffee one afternoon, an economist told me wistfully of the days when he and his wife had studied overseas, how she'd hopped behind the wheel and did her own thing. She's an independent, outspoken woman, he said. Coming back home to Riyadh had depressed both of them.

"Here, I got another dependent: my wife," he said. He found himself driving her around, chaperoning her as if she were a child. "When they see a woman walking alone here, it's like a wolf watching a sheep. 'Let me take what's unattended.' " He told me that both he and his wife hoped, desperately, that social and political reform would finally dawn in the kingdom. He thought foreign academics were too easy on Saudi Arabia, that they urged only minor changes instead of all-out democracy because they secretly regarded Saudis as "savages" incapable of handling too much freedom.

"I call them propaganda papers," he said of the foreign analysis. "They come up with all these lame excuses." He and his wife had already lost hope for themselves, he said.

Interesting article about what it's like being a woman in Saudi Arabia. Shouldn't be any news to most people who know anything about the country, but it's nice that the reporter touches on the hypocrisy of the West and how quick we are to repress the true cost of our daily commutes - our integrity.

I have to register to read it.

I be lazy...

...but the best way to go about "winning" the "War on Terror" would be to promote womens equality in Muslim nations. I'd be willing to bet that most Islamic women have no desire to live in the type of nation Islamic fundamentalists would construct.

That's about half of all Muslims...think about that.

Plus, it'd be a hell of a lot more effective long term (not to mention cheaper!) than bombing the shit out of places.

I have to register to read it.

I be lazy...

Really? It didn't ask me to register. You can try bugmenot.com

Bugmenot is your friend.

I'll continue to be lazy and stand by what I said. :p

Maybe I'll read the whole thing at work later tonight.

Saudi Arabia should be considered a rogue state, if you ask me. They are one of the strongest arguments against a theocracy I've ever seen.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fg-women6jun06,1,6178058,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true



Interesting article about what it's like being a woman in Saudi Arabia. Shouldn't be any news to most people who know anything about the country, but it's nice that the reporter touches on the hypocrisy of the West and how quick we are to repress the true cost of our daily commutes - our integrity.
It's worse than the excerpt presents.

We were driving up the coast during a lazy afternoon before Desert Storm. We happened to match speeds with a guy and his wife going the same direction. We stared, they stared back. Apparently the wife stared a little too long.

The husband started beating the crap out of her while driving the car at 50 or 60 mph. It was like watching that truck scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark...

That was the moment that I decided Arabs weren't worth our trouble. The hypocrisy part sunk in a little later.

That was the moment that I decided Arabs weren't worth our trouble.

Way to be reasonable and not generalize.

I have to register to read it.

I be lazy...

...but the best way to go about "winning" the "War on Terror" would be to promote womens equality in Muslim nations. I'd be willing to bet that most Islamic women have no desire to live in the type of nation Islamic fundamentalists would construct.

That's about half of all Muslims...think about that.

Plus, it'd be a hell of a lot more effective long term (not to mention cheaper!) than bombing the shit out of places.

Not as fun though =(

But yes, very valid point. It's usually us males who ruin everything and go to war... women are here to clean it up afterwards :D

Way to be reasonable and not generalize.

Maybe so, but it was just the straw. You really should live in that country for a while. In general, I think the people like living that way. I certainly didn't see much to indicate otherwise.

Maybe so, but it was just the straw. You really should live in that country for a while. In general, I think the people like living that way. I certainly didn't see much to indicate otherwise.

So...you generalized one country to mean that all Arabs think that way?

So...you generalized one country to mean that all Arabs think that way?
Sure, they all claim to be brothers, no?

Sure, they all claim to be brothers, no?

I see you've answered it for me. No.

The women over there need to explain it to them.

I see you've answered it for me. No.
Rightly or wrongly, they do claim to be brothers...

It's hard being a woman in a male-dominated fundamentalist psychotic theocratic dictatorship? NO WAY!!

Yeah it is pretty disgusting for the U.S. to support S.A., especially while condemning other govt. for similar shit.

Rightly or wrongly, they do claim to be brothers...

Please don't contaminate a thread of legitimate criticism with your vile pro-US driven shite.

Please don't contaminate a thread of legitimate criticism with your vile pro-US driven shite.

Hold on, it is NOT pro-US. It is anti-Islam. Those are ridiculously different things.

Yeah it is pretty disgusting for the U.S. to support S.A., especially while condemning other govt. for similar shit.

It's the family friendship. Bush and the house of Saud are tight. Hopefully, when someone else takes over the presidency, they'll condemn the Saudis.

It's the family friendship. Bush and the house of Saud are tight. Hopefully, when someone else takes over the presidency, they'll condemn the Saudis.

Not likely as long as there's oil in them thar dunes...

Certainly not as long as we profess the kind of allegiance to human rights that also holds that China must be on our most favored nations for trade.

Saudi Arabia should be considered a rogue state, if you ask me. They are one of the strongest arguments against a theocracy I've ever seen.

But Islamic government is not supposed to be ruled as a secular state. Its to be ruled under shariah law, as it is from Allah himself.

It's worse than the excerpt presents.

We were driving up the coast during a lazy afternoon before Desert Storm. We happened to match speeds with a guy and his wife going the same direction. We stared, they stared back. Apparently the wife stared a little too long.

The husband started beating the crap out of her while driving the car at 50 or 60 mph. It was like watching that truck scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark...

That was the moment that I decided Arabs weren't worth our trouble. The hypocrisy part sunk in a little later.


IIRC, a woman should not look at a man for too long. But at the same time, a muslim male cannot look at a beautiful woman 2. He can look once, and then lower his gaze, as to stray away from lusting. Not only that, but men and women are not allowed to touch unless they are family or married. A woman is not to talk to a man unless its islamically related. There are many more rules. But just as with "requiring" the hijab, jibab, or niqab for to be worn, its to protect the sisters from being taken advantage of by men.



Sure, they all claim to be brothers, no?

Rightly or wrongly, they do claim to be brothers...

The ummah is one entire brother and sister hood. Just like in christianity. I call other christians brothers and sisters. I even call my muslim pals brothers or sisters. Its a term to show that you are united and close like family.


Hold on, it is NOT pro-US. It is anti-Islam. Those are ridiculously different things.


Unless you live in the US that is :p. We all know that the most patriotic of americans are anti-muslim!:rolleyes:

Hold on, it is NOT pro-US. It is anti-Islam. Those are ridiculously different things.

I might humbly suggest that were it not perceived by the flag waving brigade that the 'Islamesez' are an enemy of America, they would be largely indifferent to them. They were ok when they were beheading russians, if you recall. Therefore their rants are primarily driven by brainless patriotism, rather than pig ignorant sectarian generalising.

:(

It's the family friendship. Bush and the house of Saud are tight. Hopefully, when someone else takes over the presidency, they'll condemn the Saudis.

Agreed, it's all about money. Well bombing the poor country for their human rights abuses is all about votes/spreading fear.

New and renewable alternative energy advancements could move the world in a dramatically new direction. Not just in foreign policy with places such as Saudi Arabia and China, but also could get us on a better path towards minimizing mans impact on global climate change, however large that impact is. IF it were the US to come out with these new technologies it could be huge for our economy too.

It's the family friendship. Bush and the house of Saud are tight. Hopefully, when someone else takes over the presidency, they'll condemn the Saudis.

It's not even Bush alone. Every American president, Republican and Democrat alike, since the 1950's has been close to the Saudi government, and it has only gotten worse as they've become more and more important to our oil supply.

It wouldn't bother me as much if we weren't spending tax dollars on the Saudis or putting our troops' lives in danger to protect oil producton; if the market wants to purchase Saudi oil, go ahead, but it's when our government funds that market and artificially props it up that I have to draw the line.

Not likely as long as there's oil in them thar dunes...

Certainly not as long as we profess the kind of allegiance to human rights that also holds that China must be on our most favored nations for trade.

Unfortunately, you're right.

Hopefully, when someone else takes over the presidency, they'll condemn the Saudis.

Unless the American populace decide that always voting for Democrats or Republicans is a bad idea, I wouldn't expect much to change. In fact, has America ever voted outside those two parties? And that's "democracy" apparently...

Unless the American populace decide that always voting for Democrats or Republicans is a bad idea, I wouldn't expect much to change. In fact, has America ever voted outside those two parties? And that's "democracy" apparently...

Sure, I still vote Whig party

I wouldn't want to be a woman in any Islamic country, to be honest. However, I'm still optimistic - even Islamic despots can't afford to ignore the global economy, which tends to bring more freedom, empower people, and in many cases lead to reforms and steps toward real democracy. It's happening in many places you wouldn't expect. :)

It's hard being a woman in a male-dominated fundamentalist psychotic theocratic dictatorship? NO WAY!!

Yes, I suppose it was sort of obvious. :p

I wouldn't want to be a woman in any Islamic country, to be honest. However, I'm still optimistic - even Islamic despots can't afford to ignore the global economy, which tends to bring more freedom, empower people, and in many cases lead to reforms and steps toward real democracy. It's happening in many places you wouldn't expect. :)

The Middle Eastern nations need to diversify away from oil; like the Soviet Union in the 1980's, the oil profits enable unstable and unsustainable regimes to remain in power by mollifying their people with subsidies and also to prop up their stagnant economies despite severe imbalances, inequality, and unemployment.

A major effort to diversify from oil exports (say, in to more advanced exports like naphta/petrochemicals/gasoline) as well as efforts to open up those economies to foreign investment would significantly improve the situation.

If you need proof, just compare the UAE or Kuwait to Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Sure, I still vote Whig party

Were the Whigs the Know-Nothings, or were they someone else?

*Checks wiki*

Nope, they were someone else.

Unless the American populace decide that always voting for Democrats or Republicans is a bad idea, I wouldn't expect much to change. In fact, has America ever voted outside those two parties? And that's "democracy" apparently...

Well, when those two parties didn't exist, they did. But does that count?

Yeah it is pretty disgusting for the U.S. to support S.A., especially while condemning other govt. for similar shit.

Indeed it is.

It's worse than the excerpt presents.

We were driving up the coast during a lazy afternoon before Desert Storm. We happened to match speeds with a guy and his wife going the same direction. We stared, they stared back. Apparently the wife stared a little too long.

The husband started beating the crap out of her while driving the car at 50 or 60 mph. It was like watching that truck scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark...

That was the moment that I decided Arabs weren't worth our trouble. The hypocrisy part sunk in a little later.

You get outside Saudi Arabia and it's not as bad in my opinion. Did you get to visit any of the surrounding countries? We took a side trip to the UAE and found it not as oppressive as the craphole I would like to think Saudi Arabia is. To those that wonder how the rest of the Muslim world views Saudi Arabia. Most people dislike them very much. I know in Morocco they are almost hated. The attitude of the Saudi's is extremely arrogant. They come to Morocco and do all sorts of illegal things. At least what they consider illegal. Drugs and prostitution are big with the Saudi visitors.

Yeah it is pretty disgusting for the U.S. to support S.A., especially while condemning other govt. for similar shit.

Your right. In fact we should cut ties and denounce the oppressive kingdom. Oh wait.... they got oil.

So...you generalized one country to mean that all Arabs think that way?

As a Muslim I say no. As my experience like the OP I can tell you in Saudi Arabia it is the norm. You need to live there for awhile to truly see how backwards they are when it comes to civil liberties. They are screwed up. I will be the first to admit that of my "brothers".