NationStates Jolt Archive

Alas, my hunt for a car is still going. It's become quite a project...I'm starting to think it's me and not the rest of the world.

Anyways, it looks like two good candidates have popped up. They're the same car, few differences.

One is being sold privately, the other by a dealer. Obviously the dealer's car will be a little bit more expensive, since there's on-road costs, registration and so on to pay.

So which one would you choose (as a rule, without having seen either)?

Private Car (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/RENAULT/CLIO/details.aspx?Model=CLIO&__Nne=20&__N=4294963762+4294963424+4294928353+834+285+257&Make=RENAULT&silo=1003&__Nf=p_GeoLocation_String%7CGCLT+-27.55885,152.8725+252.5&distance=250&Cr=0&seot=0&__sid=111DDBC5EF86&postcode=4070&R=988605&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&trecs=2)

Dealer Car (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/RENAULT/CLIO/details.aspx?Model=CLIO&__Nne=20&__N=4294963762+4294963424+4294928353+834+285+258+287&Make=RENAULT&silo=1000&__Nf=p_GeoLocation_String%7CGCLT+-27.55885,152.8725+252.5&distance=250&Cr=1&seot=0&__sid=111DDBC5EF86&postcode=4070&R=305800&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|0&trecs=2)

I'm tending toward the latter, since I've seen it before (had a test drive) and there may be a little bit less risk as far as the mechanics are concerned. This dealership is actually one of the few that actually have a Renaultsport specialist and know what this car is. Most Renault dealers around here basically have no idea.

All of my cars have been from private sales. Obviously you should go and look at any before deciding to buy it, and if you don't know what to look for take someone who does.
Used car dealers have a bit of a bad reputation here (don't they everywhere?).

My cars have all been significantly less expensive than that Clio, though; no obvious dangerous or MOT-failing faults were primary criteria ;)

Edit: Ultimately, I'd say "get the better car". Probably mine have never been from dealers because dealers don't go that cheap ¬_¬

That's what you decided on over the MX-5?

Dealers are easier to hold responsible for the sale of your car. A private seller might be easier to negotiate with.

I have wings. Why would I need a car?

I voted for a private sale because most dealers ( if not all ) will cheat you
on every aspect of the deal.

it kinda depends what's most important to you. is it a cheap price now or the peace of mind that you can go back to the dealership and yell at them?

we've just bought a new car (http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/03/10/carpniss_leadimage.jpg) too, as it so happens. picking it up tomorrow :D so i've been doing a fair bit of research into cars and stuff lately...


personally i'd go with the peace of mind option, but that's probably because i'm a worrier at heart. my dad also is great at playing hardball with the salesmen :P

my first car (in fact, only car till tomorrow ;)) we bought from a vauxhall dealership. within days we took it back because the steering was tracking way to the left, and some of the bulbs had failed or something. had we bought from a private seller we'd probably have had to get those things fixed at cost, wheras the dealership fixed it all for free :)

Without looking at either car:

If you're confident in your ability to negotiate and avoid getting taken for the add-on costs, go with the dealer. It's easier to hold them responsible for the sale of a damaged car.

Damn it! Don't get a Renault! It's french! IT'S FRENCH!

(My previous car was a Megané and it has given me untold misery.)

Damn it! Don't get a Renault! It's french! IT'S FRENCH!

(My previous car was a Megané and it has given me untold misery.)

All French companies pulled out of the US some time ago. I actually miss the funky looking little things. Plus, how popular would the Clio Sport V6 be with the street tuner cats?

Alas, my hunt for a car is still going. It's become quite a project...I'm starting to think it's me and not the rest of the world.

Anyways, it looks like two good candidates have popped up. They're the same car, few differences.

One is being sold privately, the other by a dealer. Obviously the dealer's car will be a little bit more expensive, since there's on-road costs, registration and so on to pay.

So which one would you choose (as a rule, without having seen either)?

Private Car (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/RENAULT/CLIO/details.aspx?Model=CLIO&__Nne=20&__N=4294963762+4294963424+4294928353+834+285+257&Make=RENAULT&silo=1003&__Nf=p_GeoLocation_String%7CGCLT+-27.55885,152.8725+252.5&distance=250&Cr=0&seot=0&__sid=111DDBC5EF86&postcode=4070&R=988605&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&trecs=2)

Dealer Car (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/RENAULT/CLIO/details.aspx?Model=CLIO&__Nne=20&__N=4294963762+4294963424+4294928353+834+285+258+287&Make=RENAULT&silo=1000&__Nf=p_GeoLocation_String%7CGCLT+-27.55885,152.8725+252.5&distance=250&Cr=1&seot=0&__sid=111DDBC5EF86&postcode=4070&R=305800&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|0&trecs=2)

I'm tending toward the latter, since I've seen it before (had a test drive) and there may be a little bit less risk as far as the mechanics are concerned. This dealership is actually one of the few that actually have a Renaultsport specialist and know what this car is. Most Renault dealers around here basically have no idea.
Meh, the price difference can't be that high seeing how the sales price is the same. And the dealership one has 20,000 kilometers less and it's probably been checked/repaired. Plus, you can go back to the dealership if something falls apart right away, which you can't with the private seller.

Basically, since the private seller would only really have an advantage if the price was significantly lower, which it isn't, go with the dealership, definitely.

All French companies pulled out of the US some time ago. I actually miss the funky looking little things. Plus, how popular would the Clio Sport V6 be with the street tuner cats?

Those French cars are a joy to drive, look decent(Pegueot especially) and they are very comfortable. Too bad they break down when it starts to rain, when the sun shines and at night. Every law of car manufacturing is also broken with these cars. Any sane mechanic will instantly lose his mind as soon as the bonnet is popped... grrr...

it depends.

are you paying cash or are you trying to finance?

if you are trying to finance where is this money coming from?

the dealer car appears to be a better deal, with the lower miles and lower price. However, you always have to worry when buying any car that you are in fact buying someone else's headache, most people don't get rid of a car until it's basically dying. Dealers are more in a position to cover that up than a private owner would be. My advice is to hire a mechanic you trust to look at any car you hope to buy, especially if you are planning to spend that much on a car that old.

For a new car: Go to a dealer. In fact, go to several dealers, compare prices, and get them to beat the hell out of each other's prices.

For a decent used car: You can probably still do a dealership if you need to finance, but check out everything with it. It's probably easier to get a dealer to do that than a private person.

FOr an old car: You probably won't find much at a dealership, so go with a private person and check out the car for everything that matters. And be prepared for at least one major expense (I bought a '95 LeSabre in December off of a private seller; everything works fine except the brakes, the windshield washer fluid, and this bizarre gasoline smell. The brakes cost over $300. The other two are still pending.)

withouthaving seen the cars i would choose the private seller. it'd be easier to haggle with someone who's not trained to screw you over.

That's what you decided on over the MX-5?
Not sure how well-known they'd be in the US, but rest assured that the Clio 172 is a very, very good car. Quicker than any MX-5 I could afford, anyways.

Dealers are easier to hold responsible for the sale of your car. A private seller might be easier to negotiate with.
Well, I actually had a look at the dealer's car a few months ago. Back then he wanted 2 grand more, and I ended up saying no.

The previous owner was a girl working for a performance mechanic. It's had some exhaust mods, a brand-new clutch (and now paint job...) and they fixed a few haggles with the interior. It's had the 100k service done as well.

Basically I can expect it to be in excellent condition. But I haven't seen the private sale yet.

Stick your feet in the freezer and slide to work.

As others have said, your best chance for a car that works properly without mechanical issues, or very few if any, is to go to a dealer. Shop around. Research vehicles that might be of interest. However, these tend to be higher priced than private dealers. In the USA, there's a law called the Bad Lemon Law, which effectively protects buyers from sales of bad vehicles.

Private dealers often will include a clause or even boldly putting it smack at the beginning of any contract/sale stating along the lines of "Buyer agrees to accept [enter vehicle information here] in the condition of "as is." If you sign that, then you're effectively stating that you're going to accept whatever issues might arise from the vehicle. It's a risky venture sure, but on the plus side, the prices are typically lower.

However, with that said, if you get a car from a private dealer, it's likely you're going to have to pay for some repairs sooner or later, even expensive repairs. While the initial purchase price might be nice, the costs of repairs will bring your total upkeep cost to close to commercial dealership levels.

It's wise that if you're getting a car from a private dealer, get it from someone you know/trust or has a good reputation around town, and ALWAYS ask if you can take the car to a trusted mechanic for inspection. If they look uneasy about this or outright refuse, that's your big red flag that there's at least one big problem with the car that they don't want you to know about.

For example, every car I've had has been a used car. The first car I ever owned was a 1990 Toyota Camry. It was bought by my parents from an old family friend, and it was in pretty good condition despite the age. Biggest problem was a hole in the muffler, making it noisy. My second car was a 1990 Honda Civic, a car that I honestly should have been more careful about getting. It gave problems within a month or so after purchase, and because I had gotten it from a private dealer, there was nothing I could do except pay for repairs. When I got a third car, a 1992 Mitsubishi Galant (the car I currently own), it ran quite well despite a very small oil leak and other minor things until about early April of this year. The transmission died, and it was then that I learned that there had obviously been problems BEFORE I had gotten it. It was bad enough that some parts were held together by duct tape... It lasted a year and a month before it gave any problems, so you can bet that I was surprised when I found out its condition not to mention shocked that it lasted so long before problems surfaced. Something like that, one just doesn't know about it unless they actually take apart the transmission (which can be a difficult, time consuming and costly procedure). That cost me $1400 and that was after a serious haggling with the mechanic to break down the price from $2600. However, since getting that replaced, the car runs fine. Mind you, I bought the car for $1500. It wasn't really worth it, but I didn't have the money set aside to get a newer car.

I've also become a decent self-taught home mechanic, repairing things on my own time to save on costs of repairs. I recently replaced the alternator in my car because it was old, and kept occasionally freezing up. A simple procedure really, just takes some time. My next biggest project will be to get the brakes replaced by a professional (as I dare not tamper with that for obvious reasons).

No matter where you get a car from, it doesn't hurt to be knowledgeable about how a car's engine and parts work. Always get a trusted second opinion, and even a third opinion before purchasing a vehicle... Learn from my mistakes. The lower price that a car is, the higher the probability of having problems with the car. As I said earlier, I bought my current car for $1500, and over the last year and a half (knowing I'd have to put work into it) I've put in $2000 of repairs ($1400 for tranny work, $120 for alternator, $200 for 4 new tires, and the rest in other small repairs). Now, I know the car runs well because I've inspected it thoroughly, and could arguably resell the car for $3000, even with nearly 181,000 miles on it. It's been a mechanically challenging project, but I like the challenge, and I've since learned that I enjoy working on my vehicle. It's oddly therapeutic.

I also talk all the time to my uncles (both are mechanics with their own shops) and talk to a good friend of mine who owns his own shop locally for the last 30 years or so, and between them, I've learned a lot.

I know now what to look for when shopping for a new car, how to detect problems that might be covered up, who to take it to when I want a second opinion (which will be every time), and so on.

The more you know about a car's mechanisms, and the more you educate yourself on dealership tactics regarding sales, the better chances that you have to find quality vehicles at lower costs. When you get a car, go ahead and shell out the $20-30 it cost for a Haynes repair book concerning your car. Read it, study it, and learn just how your car lives. Learn what you can about common problems that you could typically do yourself and save money (usually on labor costs) instead of taking it to a professional mechanic. When you drive, keep the music low, listen to the car's noises, learn what sounds normal, and immediately have inspected new sounds that don't sound right. They're warning signs that might save you money as much as hundreds of dollars in repairs. Always check your fluids at least once a week: oil, coolant, brake, transmission, power steering. Always inspect your belts (which usually can be done visually without taking anything apart), and replace them as necessary.

May the words of wisdom stemming from my personal experience help you in whatever your choices be. While I don't terribly mind the challenges of a vehicle's upkeep, and enjoy it, you may very well not be like that.

If you ever own a vehicle that outrightly seems to hate you, there's nothing wrong with taking a baseball bat to it. ;)

EDIT: And before you ask, yes, I do talk to mine.

Alas, my hunt for a car is still going. It's become quite a project...I'm starting to think it's me and not the rest of the world.

Anyways, it looks like two good candidates have popped up. They're the same car, few differences.

One is being sold privately, the other by a dealer. Obviously the dealer's car will be a little bit more expensive, since there's on-road costs, registration and so on to pay.

So which one would you choose (as a rule, without having seen either)?

Private Car (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/RENAULT/CLIO/details.aspx?Model=CLIO&__Nne=20&__N=4294963762+4294963424+4294928353+834+285+257&Make=RENAULT&silo=1003&__Nf=p_GeoLocation_String%7CGCLT+-27.55885,152.8725+252.5&distance=250&Cr=0&seot=0&__sid=111DDBC5EF86&postcode=4070&R=988605&__Ns=pCar_PrivateSpecialFlag_Int32|1||pCar_ImageCount_Int32|1||pCar_LastModifiedDate_DateTime|1&trecs=2)

Dealer Car (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/dealer/RENAULT/CLIO/details.aspx?Model=CLIO&__Nne=20&__N=4294963762+4294963424+4294928353+834+285+258+287&Make=RENAULT&silo=1000&__Nf=p_GeoLocation_String%7CGCLT+-27.55885,152.8725+252.5&distance=250&Cr=1&seot=0&__sid=111DDBC5EF86&postcode=4070&R=305800&__Ns=pCar_StatusSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|0&trecs=2)

I'm tending toward the latter, since I've seen it before (had a test drive) and there may be a little bit less risk as far as the mechanics are concerned. This dealership is actually one of the few that actually have a Renaultsport specialist and know what this car is. Most Renault dealers around here basically have no idea.
Both of my Subarus I bought from Super Rupair (http://www.superrupair.com/), a Subaru-only shop. They buy insurance write-offs and fix 'em up well. Not really a dealer or private.

I've bought from both, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

The private pary is usually less expensive, but you have no warranty and you have to do all the registration, smogging and taxes yourself. If you're knowledgable and careful, it's the better deal. It's an as is, where is situation.

The dealer is more expensive, but there is usually a warranty (unless the car is horribly old) and the dealer will take care of the smogging, registration etc. This jacks up the price of the car. However, not all dealers are reputable and you still need to be knowledgable and careful (unless you are buying a brand new car).

I bought my Honda from a private party and my daughter bought her Miata from a private party - we've had good service from both cars and paid a fraction of what they would have cost from the dealer.

I've also bought from a dealer and, whenever there was a problem, the dealer stood behind the car. You have to choose your dealer carefully though, and it helps to take someone with you (being female, I generally took knowledgable male friends along - this also gives you a stronger bargaining position).

I would say it's a toss-up.

I know, there's nothing like a nice, unambiguous, unequivocal, definitive answer.

A Clio Sport, nice! :) You should see if you can find one of the blue ones with the white stripes (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c4/Gfsclio.jpg/300px-Gfsclio.jpg).

They both seem to have the same features & both cost $16K, I'd go for the one with 20,000kms less on the clock.

As a general rule, private sales are OK as long as you get the car thoroughly checked out by a mechanic you trust (or the RACQ) and do an ownership search to make sure it's not stolen, still under finance or been re-birthed.

The advantage of buying from a dealer is that they will give you some sort of warranty & are obliged to ensure there is clear title on the car.

The advantage of buying from a private seller is that it's usually substantially cheaper.

So which one would you choose (as a rule, without having seen either)?
It would depend entirely on the dealer. If you get a good one, then I think they're worth the extra expense for the peace of mind and knowledge that there is someone you can go back to if the car goes wrong.

If you get a bad one, who doesn't care at all the second you sign the deposit, then the extra money is probably just buying you grief and hassle.

it kinda depends what's most important to you. is it a cheap price now or the peace of mind that you can go back to the dealership and yell at them?

we've just bought a new car (http://img.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2006/03/10/carpniss_leadimage.jpg) too, as it so happens. picking it up tomorrow :D so i've been doing a fair bit of research into cars and stuff lately...
Well done on getting it! Now you've just got to hope for a sunny summer so you can enjoy it. Just don't forget that unlike a normal car, you're going to need to put on sun cream before you drive it - the breeze will keep you from realising how hot the sun is on you.

well i've never bought from a dealer. i just couldn't see paying for their overhead and their hype, which turns me off anyway, just to buy something that's been superficialy 'detailed' and just as likely to disintigrate as soon as the cosmetics wear off.

i don't currently own one and have no real wish to.

i would seriously rather see what is spent on roads from tax money go into the really decent public transportation that could exist if it wasn't being squandered on them. let the damd oil companies and automakers build their own streets and highways the way railroads have to build their own tracks. the oil companies, with their gouging their customers can damd well afford to.

=^^=
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