NationStates Jolt Archive


needs vs. wants

Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:29
I was talking to my kids recently about facts vs. opinions, and we got into a discussion about needs vs. wants, and how my opinion of what is "needed" is different than theirs.....and so.....I thought it would make a good thread.

I feel my job as a parent is to provide my children with their basic needs and to strive to remove as many barriers as I can so that they can be successful.

I believe their basic needs are

food/water
shelter/clothing
health care
education
love


anything else I file under wants, probably because I grew up without most of the stuff above and I lived.

what do you think are needs? what are wants?

do your choices change as you go from talking about your personal needs, to what the needs of others are? do needs change by culture? whose responsibility is it to provide for these needs? is it yours? is it the governments? are there some things people need that other people do not?

can you make a list of the basic needs you have? how do you meet those needs?
Forsakia
04-06-2007, 17:34
I dare say a fair few of us have developed a dependancy on NSG by now:p
Hydesland
04-06-2007, 17:36
female
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:37
I dare say a fair few of us have developed a dependancy on NSG by now:p

:D not me.
Bodies Without Organs
04-06-2007, 17:37
I believe their basic needs are

food/water
shelter/clothing
health care
education


anything else I file under wants, probably because I grew up without most of the stuff above and I lived.

Oxygen and love seem strangely absent.
Turquoise Days
04-06-2007, 17:38
Well the difference between a need and a want depends on the ultimate objective, I guess. If the objective (on a personal level) is merely to survive, then needs are food, water, shelter and possibly medical care. If the objective is to live, then you end up with a sort of Hierachy of Needs thing, with other things building up from the above basics.
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:39
Oxygen and love seem strangely absent.

you want me to list every single chemical element needed for them to function?

also.....love, interesting.
Hydesland
04-06-2007, 17:40
you want me to list every single chemical element needed for them to function?


Well, i'm not sure if there is anything we need more then oxygen.
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:41
Well the difference between a need and a want depends on the ultimate objective, I guess. If the objective (on a personal level) is merely to survive, then needs are food, water, shelter and possibly medical care. If the objective is to live, then you end up with a sort of Hierachy of Needs thing, with other things building up from the above basics.

can you expand on this idea?

I mean I know a person who thinks he needs his Playstation.
Compulsive Depression
04-06-2007, 17:45
I mean I know a person who thinks he needs his Playstation.

Yeah, it depends on where you draw the line. "Capable of living" or "worth living"?
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:45
Well, i'm not sure if there is anything we need more then oxygen.

more than oxygen

and oxygen while important would be useless if you don't have other basic needs, people die of things like dehydration and exposure, all the while tons of oxygen surrounding them.
Call to power
04-06-2007, 17:45
you forgot fungus!

I think your needs are only shown when you go without them, sure I want to stay at home surrounded by friends but I can go without and live a new life (though by all means there is the obligatory breaking down crying) but if I go without loony toons for too long all hell is going to break loose

if that makes any sense my needs are:

1) food and shelter (candy house?)
2) socialization
3) input (even mice kill each other pretty quickly without input, I agree with this)
4) muscle stimulation
5) mental stimulation
6) donuts
The Mindset
04-06-2007, 17:45
I see little practical distinction. What I need, I want. What I want, I need.
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:46
I see little practical distinction. What I need, I want. What I want, I need.

lets say you have $300 and it's the last of your money, what do you buy? food or condoms?
Telesha
04-06-2007, 17:47
can you expand on this idea?

I mean I know a person who thinks he needs his Playstation.

Top of the pyramid I would assume: self actualization or sense of accomplishment.

At the bottom you get your basic needs and as you move up you get into societal, psychological, and personal needs.
Bodies Without Organs
04-06-2007, 17:47
more than oxygen

and oxygen while important would be useless if you don't have other basic needs, people die of things like dehydration and exposure, all the while tons of oxygen surrounding them.

People die of asphyxiation whilst being surrounded by water, no?
Compulsive Depression
04-06-2007, 17:47
lets say you have $300 and it's the last of your money, what do you buy? food or condoms?

Food. You can get condoms for free from the doctors' surgery.
Bodies Without Organs
04-06-2007, 17:48
I was just going to mention love. That's definately a need.

You can live without it, sure, but the consequences of doing so are probably detrimental - like health care.

EDIT: TW
Snafturi
04-06-2007, 17:48
Oxygen and love seem strangely absent.

I was just going to mention love. That's definately a need.
Hydesland
04-06-2007, 17:49
more than oxygen


<.<

>.>

you're wrong!


and oxygen while important would be useless if you don't have other basic needs, people die of things like dehydration and exposure, all the while tons of oxygen surrounding them.

But you can live without water for a day, without food for a month. Without oxygen in a matter of minutes, maybe less.
Pure Metal
04-06-2007, 17:51
i'd say you nailed the list of 'real' needs there, smunk

i guess i'd add to that (not talking as a parent) social activities, the internet, sex, variety in life, entertainment


that last one is a bit iffy, as its fulfilled by wants, for the most part. but meh, i feel life would be horiffically dull without entertainment, whatever form it may take (currently DVDs and stuff, but if i weren't lucky enough to have the wealth required to buy those, other forms like... drinking or singing or something would do)



edit: of course, this issue is pretty central to economics. people tend to have unlimited wants. demand is basically those wants which you have the means to fulfil (even if it means making a sacrifice of opportunity cost by chosing between two things). needs are different again...
Bodies Without Organs
04-06-2007, 17:53
People don't need God, Smunk?
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:54
Top of the pyramid I would assume: self actualization or sense of accomplishment.

At the bottom you get your basic needs and as you move up you get into societal, psychological, and personal needs.

yeah. I get you.

guys, I totally forgot love, probably stress, my bathroom is being re-tiled right now so it's loud and smelly here.
Turquoise Days
04-06-2007, 17:54
can you expand on this idea?

I mean I know a person who thinks he needs his Playstation.

You know my brother? :p

Yeah, anyway. When I say live, I mean stuff like thrive, develop, mature - that sort of thing. Most people would probably say they are needs, but many don't have access to them. All depends on your point of view. Myself, I think the basic need is opportunity, from this everything else can follow.
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 17:57
People don't need God, Smunk?

it's not something I can provide my children with
Agawamawaga
04-06-2007, 18:04
add love, and the list seems pretty good.

I know people who have survived without love, but they didn't turn out so good.

It depends on the age of the people you are talking to...

my 6 year old understands that just because she WANTS it doesn't mean she needs it, or that she is going to get it. My 3 year old still think that NEED and WANT are the same. (then again, she also thinks that "don't want" and "don't like" mean the same thing, ie: I don't LIKE broccoli and I don't WANT broccoli, when I know damn well she LIKES broccoli...as she will turn down ice cream, if broccoli is available.)

I've been known to ask kids to determine

If I don't have this will I DIE? If I don't have food, I'll die...If I don't have Playstation, I won't die. If you hear "BUT I WILL die if I don't have Playstation, ask them to test the theory, we'll withhold video games, and see how you do, then we'll withhold food, and see how THAT goes...shall we start with the video games, or the food.
The Mindset
04-06-2007, 18:12
lets say you have $300 and it's the last of your money, what do you buy? food or condoms?

I invest in stocks and get a job. Besides, condoms are free.
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 18:19
I invest in stocks and get a job. Besides, condoms are free.

not here.
IL Ruffino
04-06-2007, 18:25
Would you specify ear infection medicine as a need, or a want?
Der Fuhrer Dyszel
04-06-2007, 18:28
Needs:
Carbon
Oxygen
Hydrogen
Nitrogen

Want:
Helium



Need:
Water
Air
Food

Want:
Drugs
Alcohol



Need:
People/society

Want:
Friends



Need:
Interactions
Procreation *cough* Sex

Want:
Relationships



Need:
NationStates

Want:
NationStates!

:D
Snafturi
04-06-2007, 18:33
Here's the linky (http://www.businessballs.com/images/maslow's_hierarchy_businessballs.jpg) to the heiarchy of needs.

I don't know if I 100% agree with this. I think love ranks in the basic needs. The whole premise is you can't get to the next level until the previoius level is met. I just don't see how sex can be at the bottom but not love.
Smunkeeville
04-06-2007, 18:41
Would you specify ear infection medicine as a need, or a want?

need.
Der Fuhrer Dyszel
04-06-2007, 18:42
I don't know if I 100% agree with this. I think love ranks in the basic needs. The whole premise is you can't get to the next level until the previoius level is met. I just don't see how sex can be at the bottom but not love.


Well, this heirarchy of needs serves one purpose....proper psychological development of a human. Maslow's heirarchy really only pertains to proper psychological growth and development, to attain one's true potential. We really do not need to attain our true potential to survive.....so I tend to disagree with Maslow on this one.

Maslow's got a good structure, but for the sake of this argument, Maslow isn't entirely correct.

Plus, there is no place in Maslow's heirarchy for NationStates and I think most of us would agree that is a need. ;)
ElectronX
04-06-2007, 20:03
Wants are ancillary to need.

Ask your kid if they would rather take an xbox over food. Their 'need' of the xbox will very likely disappear.
New Granada
04-06-2007, 20:24
Even from a young age I responded to the "need vs want" discussion with the argument that it was the capitalists who got in a tissy when people put wants before needs.

All the needs in life have always been very secure for me, so the struggles of life have focused less on work-for-needs and more on work-for-wants.

I've never really needed to work in the labor sense, so the work has always been at fulfilling expectations - doing well in school, not getting into legal trouble or becoming an embarrassment, &c.
Ultraviolent Radiation
04-06-2007, 20:26
Things are needed for specific goals. Without specifying a goals, the term "need" is meaningless. So when someone says they need something and you disagree, they may just have a different goal in mind.

A want is something that is desired. It can be needed for a specific goal. However, someone may want something due to a mistaken belief that it is needed for a goal or they may want it irrationally and rationalise that want as being needed for a goal.
Telesha
04-06-2007, 20:38
All the needs in life have always been very secure for me, so the struggles of life have focused less on work-for-needs and more on work-for-wants.


And I think that's probably the best place to be. Your specific needs are secure, but you still have to actually work (or otherwise sacrifice) for something that you want to have.
Anti-Social Darwinism
04-06-2007, 22:36
It's simple -

Needs - things that keep you alive and healthy.
Wants - things that make it worthwhile for you to stay alive.

For example:

Need - food.
Want - gourmet food.

Need - warm clothing in winter.
Want - high style, attractive warm clothing in winter.

Need - basic medical care.
Want - elective surgery, like a face lift.

Need - clean, pure water
Want - "designer" water in fancy blue bottles for $ 5.00/bottle.
Johnny B Goode
05-06-2007, 00:16
lets say you have $300 and it's the last of your money, what do you buy? food or condoms?

I'd use $290 for food and $10 for condoms. (You never know...)
Hynation
05-06-2007, 00:20
I was talking to my kids recently about facts vs. opinions, and we got into a discussion about needs vs. wants, and how my opinion of what is "needed" is different than theirs.....and so.....I thought it would make a good thread.

I feel my job as a parent is to provide my children with their basic needs and to strive to remove as many barriers as I can so that they can be successful.

I believe their basic needs are

food/water
shelter/clothing
health care
education
love


anything else I file under wants, probably because I grew up without most of the stuff above and I lived.

what do you think are needs? what are wants?

do your choices change as you go from talking about your personal needs, to what the needs of others are? do needs change by culture? whose responsibility is it to provide for these needs? is it yours? is it the governments? are there some things people need that other people do not?

can you make a list of the basic needs you have? how do you meet those needs?


I need my wants
and
I want my needs

Simple enough...
The Blaatschapen
05-06-2007, 00:51
Would you specify ear infection medicine as a need, or a want?

A need :( But first I need to go to the doctor to get a prescription :(
Sarkhaan
05-06-2007, 01:27
Most basic needs:
Food
Water
Shelter

Secondary needs:
security
love

Tertiary needs:
education
medical care

edit:
the people saying "I need my wants"...you need everything you want? Always? You need a ps2 or that new car to live?

wants:
everything else
Midnight Rain
05-06-2007, 01:30
Needs:
Food
Air
Water.

All else can be lived without.
Angry Fruit Salad
05-06-2007, 03:27
I was talking to my kids recently about facts vs. opinions, and we got into a discussion about needs vs. wants, and how my opinion of what is "needed" is different than theirs.....and so.....I thought it would make a good thread.

I feel my job as a parent is to provide my children with their basic needs and to strive to remove as many barriers as I can so that they can be successful.

I believe their basic needs are

food/water
shelter/clothing
health care
education
love


anything else I file under wants, probably because I grew up without most of the stuff above and I lived.

what do you think are needs? what are wants?

do your choices change as you go from talking about your personal needs, to what the needs of others are? do needs change by culture? whose responsibility is it to provide for these needs? is it yours? is it the governments? are there some things people need that other people do not?

can you make a list of the basic needs you have? how do you meet those needs?

I have an addition to your list -- how about play time? You know, time for kids to just be kids. I suspect that MIGHT fall under "love", but what do you think?
Edenburrow
05-06-2007, 04:24
On my need list: Breathable Air, Edible food, drinkable water, and shelter. Health care, education, and love are more on my "Want" list as you can survive (If you call that living) without them.
Smunkeeville
05-06-2007, 04:26
I have an addition to your list -- how about play time? You know, time for kids to just be kids. I suspect that MIGHT fall under "love", but what do you think?

it depends, I provide them with many more things, but I think those are the basic gotta haves.

growing up I often did not have enough food, or running water, or shelter, or shoes, or health care......etc. and I survived. I hope to make life easier for my kids, but a lot of stuff they get can certainly be filed under the "want" category.
Good Lifes
05-06-2007, 06:48
I've taught on this subject. One of the interesting things is the closer a person gets to Self Actualization the fewer "things" a person sees as "needs".

Look at many older people who have had successful lives. Most live very modestly. Many sell the "big house" and move to a very small house and sell the "things". They no longer have appeal. They have the ability to focus on the "important" things of life and they find few of them are "things".

This is also why advertisers are only interested in younger people. Usually 15-25 as they are caught up on the more things they have the higher status they have in the peer group. The people over 55 actually have far more money per person but they see no need to spend it.
Westcoast thugs
05-06-2007, 09:13
My wife and i got in an arguement when i tried to say i needed the Mercedes but she says i NEED the Honda or the Toyota etc etc but i WANT the Mercedes... women just don't understand cars.
Anti-Social Darwinism
05-06-2007, 10:41
My wife and i got in an arguement when i tried to say i needed the Mercedes but she says i NEED the Honda or the Toyota etc etc but i WANT the Mercedes... women just don't understand cars.

And men don't understand shoes. *drools at sight of red kitten-heeled slingbacks.*
Compulsive Depression
05-06-2007, 10:43
And men don't understand shoes. *drools at sight of red kitten-heeled slingbacks.*

Poor kitten :(
Extreme Ironing
05-06-2007, 13:15
I'm not sure why people put 'sex' or sexual things as 'needs', as it is not necessary for your survival; it serves just as a pleasurable activity and thus is a 'want'. It can only be considered necessary as a tool for survival of the species, but when only refering to one person's needs, I don't think it can be described as that.
The Infinite Dunes
05-06-2007, 13:37
Things that help sustain physical and mental health.

The former consists mainly of air, food, water and shelter/clothing. Probably exercise as well. The latter consists of having amiable relationships with at least a few people.

That's your basics. But their vary according to person to person. I get on fine when I'm not in a relationship, but I have a friend who is considerably more alive when he's in relationship.
Zarakon
05-06-2007, 14:22
:D not me.


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I believe this speaks for itself.
Soleichunn
05-06-2007, 16:19
Well, i'm not sure if there is anything we need more then oxygen.

Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, chlorine, calcium, sodium, iron spring to mind for a start...
Soleichunn
05-06-2007, 16:28
I'd use $290 for food and $10 for condoms. (You never know...)

Why not buy $300 worth of edible condoms (there has to be some in existence)?
Hamilay
05-06-2007, 16:30
Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, chlorine, calcium, sodium, iron spring to mind for a start...

Covered by food, yes?
Soleichunn
05-06-2007, 16:34
We need some of that H and O for water as well as some O and N for a proper atmosphere.

I forgot Silicon and Aluminium! We have some Si/Al and O for rock, which makes shelter.
Good Lifes
06-06-2007, 05:40
I'm not sure why people put 'sex' or sexual things as 'needs', as it is not necessary for your survival; it serves just as a pleasurable activity and thus is a 'want'. It can only be considered necessary as a tool for survival of the species, but when only refering to one person's needs, I don't think it can be described as that.

"Maslow's hierarchy of needs" recognizes sex in the realm of "survival of the species". It doesn't say you will die if you don't copulate. It's more a mother having super strength or super bravery to protect her children. Or, the ship is sinking, "women and children first". If all but a few men died but the women and children survived the species could rapidly recover. If all but a few women died but the men survived, the species would be in trouble.
Johnny B Goode
06-06-2007, 23:14
Why not buy $300 worth of edible condoms (there has to be some in existence)?

Flavored, but never edible.
Curious Inquiry
07-06-2007, 01:48
Grats on a solid thread, here, Smunkee! :fluffle: I hope my two cents isn't out of line: Needs vs. wants? Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal disease. Given this, the question disolves.
Smunkeeville
07-06-2007, 01:50
Grats on a solid thread, here, Smunkee! :fluffle: I hope my two cents isn't out of line: Needs vs. wants? Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal disease. Given this, the question disolves.

I tend to ask a lot of questions in order to give everyone a chance to offer up an opinion. Sadly most people don't answer more than one. However, your opinion is always welcome (whether I agree with it or not.....which I kinda do half way this time)
Theoretical Physicists
07-06-2007, 02:44
lets say you have $300 and it's the last of your money, what do you buy? food or condoms?

I would definitely go for the food. I'm sure most would agree, there are a lot of ways to have sex without risk of pregnancy, just need to avoid vaginal intercourse.
Widfarend
07-06-2007, 02:56
Needs:
Decent physical condition
My Wits
(this way I can take care of/obtain my needs/what I need to live)

Wants:
Lots of stuff..
I can't even be bothered to make a list, but some would come right out of my head, such as writing a book/poetry.
Zarakon
07-06-2007, 02:59
You can probably drop education. It's probably more like food, shelter, clothing (Unless you live somewhere warm), water, and sunlight.
Widfarend
07-06-2007, 03:18
You can probably drop education. It's probably more like food, shelter, clothing (Unless you live somewhere warm), water, and sunlight.

Yea, at least the education I am getting. I have learned nothing about living off the land/farming or wilderness survival. Waste of time if you ask me.
Soleichunn
07-06-2007, 03:28
Flavored, but never edible.

Someone should make one!
Daisy-Ico-Sicapu
07-06-2007, 03:41
I believe their basic needs are

food/water
shelter/clothing
health care
education
love

Don't forget God, The most important need.
Europa Maxima
07-06-2007, 03:44
Need: Sex.
Want: The above, with no protection.
Europa Maxima
07-06-2007, 04:24
Copulation you! You fiend!

*actually could care less, being unable to get pregnant, but hates overpopulation, the great bane of environmental preservation*
Well unless guys suddenly have gained the ability go get pregnant, I think I'm fairly safe. :p
Widfarend
07-06-2007, 04:25
Need: Sex.
Want: The above, with no protection.

Copulation you! You fiend!

*actually could care less, being unable to get pregnant, but hates overpopulation, the great bane of environmental preservation*
Soleichunn
07-06-2007, 04:34
Copulation you! You fiend!

*actually could care less, being unable to get pregnant, but hates overpopulation, the great bane of environmental preservation*

*Would prefer one child to one adult or 85 children to 100 adults

Well unless guys suddenly have gained the ability go get pregnant, I think I'm fairly safe. :p

Well increasing genetic knowlege and technology could not only lead to artificial wombs (both external and based inside males) but also lead to the ability to combine a partner's D.N.A from a sperm/egg into an egg/artificial egg to be fertilised by the other partner's sperm/egg. That would really be for homosexual people though...

Of course the sequence would have to be remethylated as a female type so it is far, far off
Europa Maxima
07-06-2007, 04:40
Well increasing genetic knowlege and technology could not only lead to artificial wombs (both external and based inside males) but also lead to the ability to combine a partner's D.N.A from a sperm/egg into an egg/artificial egg to be fertilised by the other partner's sperm/egg. That would really be for homosexual people though...

Of course the sequence would have to be remethylated as a female type so it is far, far off
Please don't take the fun out of sex. <.<
Soleichunn
07-06-2007, 04:43
Please don't take the fun out of sex. <.<

<.< >.> There is a world wide conspiracy of scientists (mainly biochemists and geneticists) and some enslaved engineers working to take the fun out of sex!

Arm yourself with cheesy background music and crappy chat-up lines!