NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6718235.stm

From the article: "Ministers hope the money, announced as a report criticised teaching quality, will help train more imams in the UK."

Also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6713373.stm

From the article: "Ministers will now label Islamic studies a "strategic subject" because of its role "in preventing extremism"."

To the best of my knowledge, the UK does not fund the training of any other flavour of religious leader and I am pretty upset that they are chosing to start now. I don't believe it to be a matter for government or for tax payer's money. On the upside, reading about this lead me to The National Secular Society (http://www.secularism.org.uk/welcome.html) which is encouraging.

What do you think? Can this move really make a difference to extremism? Can the government do this without having to fund religious leaders of other faiths? Will it lead to division within British Islam as some Imams are seen as paid for puppets of the government?

I think on a purely pragmatic basis this is a good idea. You'd be suprised how much extremism is stirred up through dodgy ministers in under budgeted mosques.

This wil no doubt be controversial in religious circles. It can be said that there are pastors and churches of other faiths that need to be propped up.

To the best of my knowledge, the UK does not fund the training of any other flavour of religious leader...

What do you think? ...I think its unfair.. It looks like it discriminates other religions.

If they give money (based on their numbers).. they should give it to all religions.. and a equivalent amount to the Atheist orgs.

so what it does is basically give a little bit more funding to Islamic studies at school?

erm...well I don't know what to say really 1 million is nothing as far as teaching goes and all its doing is putting some money to teaching about Islam to students who wish to learn it

edit: and so I fail to see any news at all from this

If they give money (based on their numbers).. they should give it to all religions.. and a equivalent amount to the Atheist orgs.

so if the physics department gets an increase in funding because it has to update all its classes all the other science departments get a bonus as well for no apparent reason?

so if the physics department gets an increase in funding because it has to update all its classes all the other science departments get a bonus as well for no apparent reason?

Yeah, this isn't about supporting a religion; its about improving academic teaching of the religion by increasing funding. The only fuss can that can be made from this is if the funding is tied to a specific focus for political ends.

Just curious -- the Church of England is the established church, isn't it? Is it financed by the UK government to some extent?

Just curious -- the Church of England is the established church, isn't it? Is it financed by the UK government to some extent?
We finance faith schools and some city academies are faith-run (although the two are different, I detest them both), but this applies to most major religions including Islam and Christianity. No government money itself actually goes to the Church. The only remnants of state religion are 1) the office of Monarch is also Supreme Governor of the Church of England and 2) the Church nominates members to the House of Lords.

EDIT: And from looking at the news reports, it does seem disingenuous to say that the UK is training Imams. There is a difference between training Imams and Islamic Studies, just as there is a difference between studying Christianity and becoming a Priest.

so if the physics department gets an increase in funding because it has to update all its classes all the other science departments get a bonus as well for no apparent reason?I am not into micromanagement.. But at the end of the year the funding of the departments needs to be fair.

You cant give all the money (of the year) to one department.

Just curious -- the Church of England is the established church, isn't it? Is it financed by the UK government to some extent?Interesting question.

I am not into micromanagement.. But at the end of the year the funding of the departments needs to be fair.


No they don't.


You cant give all the money (of the year) to one department.

You can if all the over departments are perfect and only one is doing badly.

Just curious -- the Church of England is the established church, isn't it? Is it financed by the UK government to some extent?

Not really. Maybe to a minor extent for ceremonies etc...

Not really. Maybe to a minor extent for ceremonies etc...
I imagine it would cause quite a stir if the government decided to fund the C of E, as unlikely as it is.

You can if all the over departments are perfect and only one is doing badly.dont be silly.. even if the other depts are doing good.. they still need to pay their Teachers and the Janitors.. electric/telephone bills etc.

Just curious -- the Church of England is the established church, isn't it? Is it financed by the UK government to some extent?

It's complicated, it's the established church of England, but not the UK, as for funding I don't think there is any, but I'm not totally sure. There's at least some overlap regarding churches funded as historical sites etc.

dont be silly.. even if the other depts are doing good.. they still need to pay their Teachers and the Janitors.. electric/telephone bills etc.

Whatever, no one is proposing that we spend all the money on training Imams. But I see no reason why we should give an equal amount of funding to all the other religions, increase the price by at least half a dozen.

so what it does is basically give a little bit more funding to Islamic studies at school?


As far as I understand it, the funding is to be used at University level, and appears to focus on those who wish to become an Imam as opposed to those who are simply interested in Islam.

I am not sure that there is news in this either - the possible outcomes are what I am interested in.

Yeah, this isn't about supporting a religion; its about improving academic teaching of the religion by increasing funding. The only fuss can that can be made from this is if the funding is tied to a specific focus for political ends.


The stated aim is to reduce extremism, which would be good in my opinion. My questions really were: will it work?

dont be silly.. even if the other depts are doing good.. they still need to pay their Teachers and the Janitors.. electric/telephone bills etc.

I think he/she was talking about new injections of money.

1 million? I mean... wow... that is such a huge amount of money... My student union has an annual budget five times that amount.

To the best of my knowledge, the UK does not fund the training of any other flavour of religious leader and I am pretty upset that they are chosing to start now.

They don't? What's with all the "Church of England" business then?

It's not really that different then black studies or woman's studies, I guess.

As long as their teaching just information, what they believe, history, various splits, the politics of the religion, etc and aren't teaching it as fact, I have no problem with it.

They don't? What's with all the "Church of England" business then?

It came about when Henry VIII wanted to stop paying tithes to Rome and get divorced. The Queen is still the "head" of the Church of England and Defender of the faith (Charlie wants to be Defender of the faiths when its his turn) but the state does not fund it. The link shows where the CofE gets its funding, and how it spends it - just over £50m training ministers.

http://www.cofe.anglican.org/info/funding/index.html#where

It is accorded charitable status as regards tax but that applies equally to all recognised faiths.

It's not really that different then black studies or woman's studies, I guess.

As long as their teaching just information, what they believe, history, various splits, the politics of the religion, etc and aren't teaching it as fact, I have no problem with it.

I agree - if the money goes to Islamic Studies courses in the manner of Black or Women's studies. The first article quoted suggests that Ministers want the money to train Imams - religious leaders - in an effort to counteract the subversive Imams currently active in the UK. My questions are whether this is fair, given that other faiths don't recieve this kind of funding, and whether it will work.

I'm also interested to see if there will be any fallout in terms of equal opportunity law - most followers of Islam don't accept women Imams, although women are allowed to lead prayers in a women-only congregation as long as they don't stand at the front.