NationStates Jolt Archive

Democrats hide pet projects from voters (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_go_co/congress_pet_projects)

This makes me mad that politicians hide their pet projects from us voters.

WASHINGTON - After promising unprecedented openness regarding Congress' pork barrel practices, House Democrats are moving in the opposite direction as they draw up spending bills for the upcoming budget year.

Democrats are sidestepping rules approved their first day in power in January to clearly identify "earmarks" — lawmakers' requests for specific projects and contracts for their states.

Rather than including specific pet projects, grants and contracts in legislation as it is being written, Democrats are following an order by the House Appropriations Committee chairman to keep the bills free of such earmarks until it is too late for critics to effectively challenge them.

And do we know how the Appropriations Committee Chairman is? David R. Obey, Wisconsin, Chair (D)

This has got to stop. They were elected on a promise unprecedented openness and now they are pulling this stunt. This is just as bad as what the Republicans were doing and we all know what happened to them. It is time to do the same to these people.

When we start throwing politicians out of office because they failed to keep their promises, D.C. will get the hint that we do want openness.

Did you expect them to do anything other than abuse thier power and pus thier own agenda? Its the same thing both major parties have been doing since they were created. Political PArties need to be disbanded... its an induvidual who matters. Political partisans are the worst thing to ever happen to this country.

Did you expect them to do anything other than abuse thier power and pus thier own agenda? Its the same thing both major parties have been doing since they were created. Political PArties need to be disbanded... its an induvidual who matters. Political partisans are the worst thing to ever happen to this country.

It is what I expect but as a voter, I will condemn it in any forum I can. As of now, this is it.

And no, it is precisely what I was expecting from the Democrats. That is why it is time to throw them out, along with all politicians, and start with a brand new Congress where NO ONE is an incumbent.

give me 12 years and I'll see about running....

This has got to stop. They were elected on a promise unprecedented openness and now they are pulling this stunt. This is just as bad as what the Republicans were doing and we all know what happened to them. It is time to do the same to these people.

When we start throwing politicians out of office because they failed to keep their promises, D.C. will get the hint that we do want openness.

We need to clean the whole bunch out at least every 10 years. I'm all for term limits for Congressmen and Senators. I'm all for a good third party as well.

give me 12 years and I'll see about running....

So does that mean you are 13? You have to be 25 to be in the House:

No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen.

And 30 years old to be in the Senate:

No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.

And we can join the House together :D

Democrats hide pet projects from voters (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=1227)

This makes me mad that politicians hide their pet projects from us voters.



And do we know how the Appropriations Committee Chairman is? David R. Obey, Wisconsin, Chair (D)

This has got to stop. They were elected on a promise unprecedented openness and now they are pulling this stunt. This is just as bad as what the Republicans were doing and we all know what happened to them. It is time to do the same to these people.

When we start throwing politicians out of office because they failed to keep their promises, D.C. will get the hint that we do want openness.


Well I guess its time for a new Party since the original two can't be trusted.

We need to clean the whole bunch out at least every 10 years. I'm all for term limits for Congressmen and Senators. I'm all for a good third party as well.


HERE HERE ....

What is the difference between Democrats and Republicans in this regard? I think every person living in every democracy on Earth today realises that politicians are crooked and deceitful. They may champion different policies, and some of those policies maybe better than others; but ultimately they are all still corrupt and look out for their own. This isn't cynicism. It's the reality.

Democrats hide pet projects from voters (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=1227)

This makes me mad that politicians hide their pet projects from us voters.



And do we know how the Appropriations Committee Chairman is? David R. Obey, Wisconsin, Chair (D)

This has got to stop. They were elected on a promise unprecedented openness and now they are pulling this stunt. This is just as bad as what the Republicans were doing and we all know what happened to them. It is time to do the same to these people.

When we start throwing politicians out of office because they failed to keep their promises, D.C. will get the hint that we do want openness.

So you must of been down right incensed when Republicans did it for a decade huh

So does that mean you are 13? You have to be 25 to be in the House:



And 30 years old to be in the Senate:



And we can join the House together :D

I was thinking 35 for Senate... but that is presidency... give me 2 years and I can run for house. I'll have a platform of I hate dems and repubs and will do all I can to make sure that other politicians play fair and stop this crap.

Of course, realistically it would take me 12 years of campain contributions to have the money needed to run.

So you must of been down right incensed when Republicans did it for a decade huh

Actually...yes I was.

Democrats hide pet projects from voters (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=1227)

This makes me mad that politicians hide their pet projects from us voters.


Rather than including specific pet projects, grants and contracts in legislation as it is being written, Democrats are following an order by the House Appropriations Committee chairman to keep the bills free of such earmarks until it is too late for critics to effectively challenge them.
And do we know how the Appropriations Committee Chairman is? David R. Obey, Wisconsin, Chair (D)

This has got to stop. They were elected on a promise unprecedented openness and now they are pulling this stunt. This is just as bad as what the Republicans were doing and we all know what happened to them. It is time to do the same to these people.

When we start throwing politicians out of office because they failed to keep their promises, D.C. will get the hint that we do want openness.

:rolleyes: Whatever. How about giving us a link that doesn't take us to the "reply" page? This story has zilch in terms of credibility without the link. Where's the REAL article or is there no real article?

Image of the above (http://weaselhut.net/link.jpg) - I'd have the image display but it broke the window. But if you look, the link doesn't take you to an article.

:rolleyes: Whatever. How about giving us a link that doesn't take us to the "reply" page? This story has zilch in terms of credibility without the link.

OOPS!! I fixed it.

Democrats hide pet projects from voters (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_go_co/congress_pet_projects)

This makes me mad that politicians hide their pet projects from us voters.

And Republicans don't?
Puh-leeese. Welcome to politics in the U.S. of A, don't make the mistake of calling the kettle black 'till you've seen the pot.

Actually...yes I was.

And yet I don't remember you bitching about Ted Stevens and his Bridge to Nowhere. There's a reason they call this behavior "Politics as usual", because everyone does it. Your faux outrage at the Democrats rings hollow.

So, by your logic, if we cannot control their spending we should control their budget. I would presume then that you support further tax cuts until Congress can no longer afford to waste money on frivilous spending.

What is the difference between Democrats and Republicans in this regard? I think every person living in every democracy on Earth today realises that politicians are crooked and deceitful. They may champion different policies, and some of those policies maybe better than others; but ultimately they are all still corrupt and look out for their own. This isn't cynicism. It's the reality.

In his book Senator Dr. Tom Coburn pointed this out very well and in detail. He said that many of them will go to Washington for their first term with good intentions to try to do the will of the people and what they feel is right. It doesn't take long for that idealism fade and the number one priority becomes "What can I do to get reelected?"

Breach of Trust: How Washington Turns Outsiders Into Insiders by Tom A. Coburn and John Hart

I'll have a platform of I hate dems and repubs and will do all I can to make sure that other politicians play fair and stop this crap.

Prediction: you will not get elected. By a landslide. In case you haven't noticed, in American politics third party candidates do not fare well. Additionally, you need to ally with other politicians to get what your constituents want, so if by chance you DO get elected and you go around making every play fair, you won't have the support of allies needed to accomplish your constituent's aims and will not be re-elected.

And Republicans don't?
Puh-leeese. Welcome to politics in the U.S. of A, don't make the mistake of calling the kettle black 'till you've seen the pot.

And I have condemned the Republicans for doing the samething.

And Republicans don't?
Puh-leeese. Welcome to politics in the U.S. of A, don't make the mistake of calling the kettle black 'till you've seen the pot.

Gee - you're right. Good thing Democrats never promised Honsst leadership and open government.... http://www.democrats.org/a/party/stand.html

And yet I don't remember you bitching about Ted Stevens and his Bridge to Nowhere. There's a reason they call this behavior "Politics as usual", because everyone does it. Your faux outrage at the Democrats rings hollow.

Join Date: Mar 2007

My join date. Thanks though. If I had been around when the Republicans were in office, I would have done exactly the samething.

So please get off your high horse.

So, by your logic, if we cannot control their spending we should control their budget. I would presume then that you support further tax cuts until Congress can no longer afford to waste money on frivilous spending.

Who is saying anything about Tax Cuts? Me?

:rolleyes: Whatever. How about giving us a link that doesn't take us to the "reply" page? This story has zilch in terms of credibility without the link. Where's the REAL article or is there no real article?


Lazy. Amazing what google can do http://www.google.com/search?q=Democrats+hide+pet+projects+from+voters&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Lazy. Amazing what google can do http://www.google.com/search?q=Democrats+hide+pet+projects+from+voters&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_go_co/congress_pet_projects

I edited the first post. Thanks for helping though.

Lazy. Amazing what google can do http://www.google.com/search?q=Democrats+hide+pet+projects+from+voters&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Well, it's the responsibility of he who presents the information to cite the source.

So, by your logic, if we cannot control their spending we should control their budget. I would presume then that you support further tax cuts until Congress can no longer afford to waste money on frivilous spending.

A line item veto might work just fine.

A line item veto might work just fine.

To bad that was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court back when Clinton was in office.

To bad that was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court back when Clinton was in office.

Might be able to re-wright the law to overcome the courts objections, or introduce legislation for a Constitutional Amendment.

To bad that was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court back when Clinton was in office.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060307-125551-3696r.htm
Indeed. And they reminded Mr. Bush of that when he asked to be able to use it.
Then he started with his signing statements.

Prediction: you will not get elected. By a landslide. In case you haven't noticed, in American politics third party candidates do not fare well. Additionally, you need to ally with other politicians to get what your constituents want, so if by chance you DO get elected and you go around making every play fair, you won't have the support of allies needed to accomplish your constituent's aims and will not be re-elected.

At least I'd be honest. I wouldn't really use the word hate, but the word oppose might come up.

I have to trust Democrats before I can be disappointed by them. ;)

THe benefit of the Democrats retaking the House and barely holding onto the Senate is that a split government acts as a fairly decent filter for bullshit. Well, as good a filter as we're ever going to get without a third party and/or mandatory truth serum injectons. :p

At least I'd be honest. I wouldn't really use the word hate, but the word oppose might come up.

*nod* And while we could all use that, the sad fact is that honesty in politics does not get you far, I am afraid.

I have to trust Democrats before I can be disappointed by them. ;)

Well, as good a filter as we're ever going to get without a third party and/or mandatory truth serum injectons. :p

Hot damn what an idea. Spike all the Congressmen and Senators drinks, tea, coffee, etc. with truth serum. That would be awsome. :D

Hot damn what an idea. Spike all the Congressmen and Senators drinks, tea, coffee, etc. with truth serum. That would be awsome. :D

The system would collapse. Chaos and Calamity. It'll be beautiful. :)

Lazy. Amazing what google can do http://www.google.com/search?q=Democrats+hide+pet+projects+from+voters&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I don't have to Google squat. It's the OP's responsibility to provide the link and substance for their argument. My job to is whine when there is no such source. I don't have squat to prove. Plus I did the rest of NSG a favour because now they don't have to look for this link either. I consider my services to be quite valuable. :p

Who is saying anything about Tax Cuts? Me?

Do you have a better proposal? I determine your support by estension - if you can't reduce their spending reduce their income. Tax cuts is the only way to do that.

Do you have a better proposal? I determine your support by estension - if you can't reduce their spending reduce their income. Tax cuts is the only way to do that.

It is called accountability. Tax Cuts do not have to be passed to do that.

I don't have to Google squat. It's the OP's responsibility to provide the link and substance for their argument. My job to is whine when there is no such source. I don't have squat to prove. Plus I did the rest of NSG a favour because now they don't have to look for this link either. I consider my services to be quite valuable. :p

Here...have a penny for your valuable service. :eek:

Do you have a better proposal? I determine your support by estension - if you can't reduce their spending reduce their income. Tax cuts is the only way to do that.
You haven't heard of deficit spending, have you?

The system would collapse. Chaos and Calamity. It'll be beautiful. :)

I'd imagine that, after all of it is done, the 3 politicians at Capitol Hill who aren't corrupt rise to try and clean up. And then some anarchists walk by...

Thus forming the United Summit.

I'd imagine that, after all of it is done, the 3 politicians at Capitol Hill who aren't corrupt rise to try and clean up. And then some anarchists walk by...

Thus forming the United Summit.

I'm not sure you could even find one who wasn't corrupt in one way or another. :)

I'm not sure you could even find one who wasn't corrupt in one way or another. :)

There might be one or two.

Can't assume that the ENTIRE group is corrupt.

This has got to stop. They were elected on a promise unprecedented openness and now they are pulling this stunt. This is just as bad as what the Republicans were doing and we all know what happened to them. It is time to do the same to these people.

The solution is to eliminate roughly 90% of the political spectra. In a somewhat gruesome manner. Maybe by public dismemberment by disgruntled constituents.

I guarantee that the next batch will be a little more circumspect with their promises.

Isn't is sad that we've reached a point where we make the politicians excuses for them?

This is why I am a libertarian.

Politics is a selective process - the corrupt and sleazy are far better at getting into office and keeping it. Though there are notable exceptions, honorable men do not stay in office long.

Were I to run for office, I would never get elected because I will be realistic about my capabilities - thus I would not make absurd campaign promises that there is no possible way I can keep. I will tell people the truth, and not what they want to hear. Nor would I resort to hyperbole and ad hominem attacks.

The problem is that there will be an opponent who will just tell people what they want to hear - and the people are generally short-sighted and gullible. Even though many of them know fully well that it is total bullshit, they will still vote for the sleazeball.

Politicians who are honest and actually try to do what is right will not get anywhere when their opponents are corrupt bastards because they will use political payoffs to get what they want, and the honest man will not agree to things like vote-swapping.

Look at any spending bill - it is divvied up to spend money in the districts of the more influential politicians in order to get support. Were it actually something good for the country, politicians should support it for that and that alone. Needing spending to be directed to their district or to their pet projects is nothing short of bribery. If you are not willing to vote-swap and bribe others, you will not be able to get anything done.

Then you get into issues of campaign money - a politician has to raise massive amounts of funds to be able to run a reelection campaign. This is because voters are ignorant and myopic. This need for money is corrupting. Money alone cannot buy a campaign, but without it, you cannot run one.

Incumbents should not need to campaign that much - the public should know what their politician has been up to in the last 2, 4, or 6 years. It is a matter of public record. If they have been doing a bad job, get rid of them; if theyve been doing a good job, keep them. Simple eh? Of course this goes back to voters believing the sleazeball who promises that if they just elect him instead the world will be full of rainbows and bunny-rabbits - regardless of the incumbent doing the best possible job already.

Politics is a corrupt game: unless the voters are intelligent, well informed, and an active participant, politicians will be corrupt.

Corruption is a given. Hell, it's how we know that politicians are competent. It's only a problem if there's an unreasonable level of corruption, and this doesn't appear to be at that stage.