NationStates Jolt Archive

Bush demands "immediate and unconditional" release of Americans.
Fri Jun 1, 7:28 PM ET

WASHINGTON -President Bush on Friday demanded that Iran "immediately and unconditionally" release four Iranian-Americans detained for alleged espionage and provide information about a former FBI agent missing in the country.

The United States has denied that the four detainees are spies or employees of the U.S. government.

The four detained scholars and activists are Haleh Esfandiari, director of the Middle East Program at the Washington-based Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars; Kian Tajbakhsh with George Soros' Open Society Institute; journalist Parnaz Azima from the U.S.-funded Radio Farda; and Ali Shakeri, a peace activist and founding board member at the University of California, Irvine, Center for Citizen Peacebuilding.

Sources: Yahoo/AP/OccNEWS
They have been formally charged with espionage, but..

is it possible any of these 4 has passed information to the CIA/NSA/Mossad/etc ?

I mean, the CIA never had agents/informants working as Journalists, doctors or scholars... I think.

If they were there for espionage purposes, why should they be released? They were spying on sovereign nation. There is no need for their release. If they were just normal civilians I can see why they should be released but if they are covert agents, Iran has every right to detain them.

After all, would America release foreign spies if it caught them on American soil? As yourself this.

After all, would America release foreign spies if it caught them on American soil? As yourself this.

Well, they deny they're agents, but that's a standard response anyways for intelligence agents who get caught.

Besides, I find it funny that they're yapping about unconditional release when a large number of prisoners are held without charge or trial for over what, 4 years now in US prisons?

I highly doubt any of these people are actually spies it would be difficult for them to really spy on anything anyways since I'm certain they've been under a strict watch since they got into the country simply because they're westerners this is just Iran trying to flex its muscle some more which eventually is going to lead to its downfall I would have already bombed them back past the stone age but I dont have the power to do that so meh....the last line of your post seems like your trying to spin this to somehow bash the president because he's demanding the return of our citizens from an insane regime that hates the west I would hope the leader of my country would take a stand for the citizens he ..At least President Bush doesn't sit around and waist time talking to the nut jobs and appeasing them in the middle east like that idiot Carter did..but they give him a frickin peace prize..bunch of twats...

The US still has not released the Iranians part of the consular mission that were caught for "espionage" in Iraq.. have they?

A lot of the people at Gitmo got captured fighting us big difference there..some yes should be released or charged but the ones that got captured in combat no they need to stay locked up.

If they were there for espionage purposes, why should they be released? So far they are only charged with espionage..
.

There is no need for their release.there could be a need (to release one or more) in the future if the Legal procedure/courts/etc determine any of them is innocent.
.

would America release (anyone charged for espionage).Are you kidding me?
We would make double sure they are not "security risks".. this involves spies,

but it also involves pro-AQ, pro-Insurgent, pro-Iran, Pro-Taliban, or.. anything my Dear Leader says.

A lot of the people at Gitmo got captured fighting us big difference there..some yes should be released or charged but the ones that got captured in combat no they need to stay locked up.

That should be decided in a trial, not by some street level bureaucrat making the arrest... If caught in combat they should recieve prisoners of war status.

are you kidding me?

Why should he be joking? It's a valid point.

That should be decided in a trial, not by some street level bureaucrat making the arrest... If caught in combat they should recieve prisoners of war status.

lol..none of them caught in combat deserve POW status. Maybe if they were actually fighting under a sovereign banner then yes..but hiding as a civilian and using them as shields no.

Bush isn't in a position to demand anything, immediate, unconditional, or otherwise.

*points & laughs uproariously*

Why should he be joking? It's a valid point.Its a SHE btw...

and SHE know me very well.. so I am not worried.. SHE knows exactly what I mean.

I mean, the CIA never had agents/informants working as Journalists, doctors or scholars... I think.

My history teacher gave us a thought once.

Imagine the absolute worst thing your govenment does. Now multiply that by 100. That's likely what they are doing.

So far they are only charged with espionage.

Well, it's more than what some of the detainees at Gitmo have been charged with. Some have been charged, some haven't. But those who haven't been charged are still in Gitmo awaiting their fate.

there could be a need (to release one or more) in the future if the Legal procedure/courts/etc determine any of them is innocent.

But not until they analyse the evidence and make a weighted judgement based on the facts. There would be a 'need' once the innocence has been proven.

Are you kidding me?
We would make double sure they are not "security risks".. this involves spies,

but it also involves pro-AQ, pro-Insurgent, pro-Iran, Pro-Taliban, or.. anything my Dear Leader says.

I'm not kidding; I'm serious. If American authorities officially made the charge against the foreign agent, would they release it if the "agent's" country demanded immediate and unconditional release? I don't think so, not even if America trusted that country.

Why would you expect a foreign nation to release American agents when America would not to the same thing?

Besides, I find it funny that they're yapping about unconditional release when a large number of prisoners are held without charge or trial for over what, 4 years now in US prisons?

I thought the same thing when Iran caught those Brits. Seriously America STFU and stop being so damn hypocritical.

I highly doubt any of these people are actually spies it would be difficult for them to really spy on anything anyways


Espionage does not necessarily mean information gathering. Establishment of local contacts, inciting agitator groups, creating local framework for future intelligence use. These all fall under espionage.

Being political activists gives them the excuse to incite agitator groups without seeming to be funded by the CIA.


....the last line of your post seems like your trying to spin this to somehow bash the president because he's demanding the return of our citizens from an insane regime that hates the west


I simply dislike hypocrites. And what's happening is hypocrisy, plain and simple.


..At least President Bush doesn't sit around and waist time talking to the nut jobs and appeasing them in the middle east like that idiot Carter did..but they give him a frickin peace prize..bunch of twats...

Here's a clue for the ignorant. Peace prizes aren't given to cowboys who want demand that the world follow them into war or they're against them.


I would have already bombed them back past the stone age


And with this statement, your credibility to analyze and produce logical statements has just gone down the tubes.

Thank you for playing.

But those who haven't been charged are still in Gitmo awaiting their fate.

Or lack thereof.

Yes but I don't think we here in America are going to arrest a Journalist unless there is actual proof of espionage...our own media would tear the government apart if they screwed up..which they do on a regular basis..

lol..none of them caught in combat deserve POW status. Maybe if they were actually fighting under a sovereign banner then yes..but hiding as a civilian and using them as shields no.

It is an issue of sovereignty then, only souvern people fight wars?

According to the latest info you have gotten yourself into a tribal conflict... The Taliban simply representing one of the main ethnic groups. They hide among the civillians because they are civillians defending their homes.

Granted you have the ideological nutcases, but never wondered why the Taliban is fought successfully, and yet growing in numbers? You have supported one group of corrupt warlords and are now fighting parts of the civillian population. That said, the destruction of papaver, thereby destroying livelyhood does not really help either, now does it.

You may think it is funny, but I think it is rather sad.;)

If they were really spies, and the U.S. really cared about getting them back, they wouldn't be demanding in the open. They'd be dealing in private.

*nod*

Yes but I don't think we here in America are going to arrest a Journalist unless there is actual proof of espionage...our own media would tear the government apart if they screwed up..which they do on a regular basis..

In Iraq and Afghanistan there is no control over who gets arrested, no checks and balances, and no hope of going home for those that have wrongly been taken.

Yes but I don't think we here in America are going to arrest a Journalist unless there is actual proof of espionage...our own media would tear the government apart if they screwed up..which they do on a regular basis..

America gives out cash rewards to people turned in by local warlords in Afghanistan on the strength of their say so.

The government hardly cares what the media says anyway. Not when enough people lap up their propaganda like blind kittens.

If they were really spies, and the U.S. really cared about getting them back, they wouldn't be demanding in the open. They'd be dealing in private.

*nod*ahh the good old Cold War times..

when playing Spy vs Spy was not so dangerous..
The Soviets catch you?
No problem.. we will exchange you for one of them.. or for 10 million Dollars.

Colbert said it last week.. we(US) had it so good @ the Cold War when the "bad guy" was Russia..

Now the "bad guy" is AQ.. and they are not taking prisoners.

they hide among civilians and kill civilians..and a lot of them aren't even from the country so they aren't defending their homes..they're there because they listened to some wackjob that said something like

"The west is evil go kill all westerners and while your at it kill these innocent people that accept western views or tolerate western people on our holy land."

Fighting for that doesn't get you POW status.

If they were really spies, and the U.S. really cared about getting them back, they wouldn't be demanding in the open. They'd be dealing in private.

*nod*

Maybe they were sent in to get caught? Leverage for war drum beating since the whole "they've got nukes!" cry is a little exhausted.

Well, Iranian born American citizens go to Iran knowing full well that relations between the two countries border on being hostile. They know there are no diplomatic relations between the two countries and no American Embassy to help them. If they are not spies my question is, "Why is anyone surprised they have been arrested?" The dumb asses should have stayed home.

Fighting for that doesn't get you POW status.

Leading the world involves setting an example that involves not sinking the rest of the world's level.

America gives out cash rewards to people turned in by local warlords in Afghanistan on the strength of their say so.Are we paying better than the oldtime Witch-Hunters/Inquisidores ??

they hide among civilians and kill civilians..and a lot of them aren't even from the country so they aren't defending their homes..they're there because they listened to some wackjob that said something like

"The west is evil go kill all westerners and while your at it kill these innocent people that accept western views or tolerate western people on our holy land."

Fighting for that doesn't get you POW status.

Fighting a war for a reason you do not like does not get you POW status, I can understand why you would think ithis way.

Sure some of them have come from afar, or next door; as I said there are the Ideological martyr figures... You know what is the best recruitement for these people the civillian casualties made by US troops.

I simply do not understand how one can claim protecting people by turning them into collateral damage.

Maybe they were sent in to get caught? Leverage for war drum beating since the whole "they've got nukes!" cry is a little exhausted.

I put nothing past this Administration. Their herculean efforts to hide their actions would make Nixon cry. All I'm saying is that one doesn't publically demand the release of spies if they are really spies or if one really wants them back. *nod*

In Iraq and Afghanistan there is no control over who gets arrested, no checks and balances, and no hope of going home for those that have wrongly been taken.

Tough luck for them then. I really could care less about the lively hood of some 3rd world country citizens who call for my way of life's destruction on a daily basis.

Well, Iranian born American citizens go to Iran knowing full well that relations between the two countries border on being hostile. They know there are no diplomatic relations between the two countries and no American Embassy to help them. If they are not spies my question is, "Why is anyone surprised they have been arrested?" The dumb asses should have stayed home.

Good point. At least if they were accused of being spies here, they'd be enjoying warm caribbean weather. ;)

Tough luck for them then. I really could care less about the lively hood of some 3rd world country citizens who call for my way of life's destruction on a daily basis.

This system guarantees that inocent people pay the price. Innocent people that could not care less about your way of life... You are not that important you know, that huge groups of people would care just a little about your way of life; they simply care for their own way of life. Nothing more, nothing less...

Well sure sometimes Civilians die in war it happens it happened in ww1 ww2 Korea Vietnam..etc etc...the difference is the US doesn't target civilians on purpose meanwhile the insurgents do so on a regular basis as well as targeting soldiers.

Then they hide amongst the civilians so that when we or anyone else fighting them comes after them civilians get killed and then they spin it and say

"look Americans killed civilians join our cause and fight them."

I suppose the people are too stupid to realize

"Hey these insurgent terrorist people are killing us and then using us as shields how about we stand up to them together and stop them"

Tough luck for them then. I really could care less about the lively hood of some 1st world country citizens who call for my way of life's destruction on a daily basis.

Fixed

How nice isn't it? American life is somehow worth more than human life in other nations.

I knew I was undercharging for American slaves.

If they were really spies, and the U.S. really cared about getting them back, they wouldn't be demanding in the open. They'd be dealing in private.

*nod*

Naw...just deny they are spies, and make a lot of noise about it to show how ebil the other side is...works every time. Then go into private negotiations and trade for the Iranian spies the U.S. caught in Iraq.

"American life is somehow worth more than human life in other nations."

Thats not what I was saying..I was saying why should I care about/want to help someone who wants to see me, my family, and my entire way of life stamped out?

And living in a mud hut herding goats is hardly 1st world...replace it with developing country is that better for your politically correct needs?

Good point. At least if they were accused of being spies here, they'd be enjoying warm caribbean weather. ;)

Are you suggesting they Iranian spies captured in the U.S. would get an all expense paid unlimited vacation on a tropical island? :eek:

Well sure sometimes Civilians die in war it happens it happened in ww1 ww2 Korea Vietnam..etc etc...the difference is the US doesn't target civilians on purpose meanwhile the insurgents do so on a regular basis as well as targeting soldiers.

Collateral damage, targets on purpose does not mean shit it it is your dead wife lying there, now is it? Would you not take up an AK-47?

Then there are the few soldiers that abuse their power; power corrupts you know, and a soldier has a lot of power at his disposal. When they misbehave who is going to protect you. What if the allies of the US soldiers the warlords misbehave, who are you gonna' call?

War is a bitch, and one has to be extremely sure of oneself to resort to war.

Thats not what I was saying..I was saying why should I care about/want to help someone who wants to see me, my family, and my entire way of life stamped out?

I'm sure they feel the same way about you

And living in a mud hut herding goats is hardly 1st world...replace it with developing country is that better for your politically correct needs?

brilliant :D

I would be angry if a member of my family got killed yes..then again it would go back to if the citizens stood up together and pushed the insurgents out then they wouldn't be losing their family members because we wouldn't have to fight amongst them..so yes I'd be mad but I'd make sure I got mad at the right group of people.

I would be angry if a member of my family got killed yes..then again it would go back to if the citizens stood up together and pushed the insurgents out then they wouldn't be losing their family members because we wouldn't have to fight amongst them..so yes I'd be mad but I'd make sure I got mad at the right group of people.

Have you ever tried thinking straight when your family is dead?

"American life is somehow worth more than human life in other nations."

Thats not what I was saying..I was saying why should I care about/want to help someone who wants to see me, my family, and my entire way of life stamped out?

And why should I care about some American who wants to see the same done to me? Heck, I've never done anything to him, but he sees fit to somehow condemn me and everyone around me to death.

I'm talking about you buddy boy.


And living in a mud hut herding goats is hardly 1st world...replace it with developing country is that better for your politically correct needs?

I used 1st world because America tends to consider itself 1st world. That's right genius. I'm placing the exact same level of importance to human life in America as I would in, oh say, Afghanistan.

Thats not what I was saying..I was saying why should I care about/want to help someone who wants to see me, my family, and my entire way of life stamped out?


Do not flatter yourself, they simply want you out; they do not care about your way of life.

Even the jihadist are mainly concerned with their Islamic state, they have neither the power, nor is it their goal to stamp out your way of life.

I'm sure they feel the same way about you

Most Americans with the radical exceptions like the KKK and such aren't calling for the eradication of Islam or Islamic people..meanwhile they're are regular protests calling for the destruction of the western world...

Most Americans with the radical exceptions like the KKK and such aren't calling for the eradication of Islam or Islamic people..meanwhile they're are regular protests calling for the destruction of the western world...

Still, you're trying to change their government. That is also having other effects that lead to more fighting.

.. all expense paid unlimited vacation on a tropical island? :eek:http://www.nationsonline.org/gallery/Havana_Cuba.jpg
http://images.worldres.com/property/a52500/52745/hotel.jpg
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0Je5wvHgmFGqxkAyRCJzbkF?p=varadero
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=cayo+coco
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I would be angry if a member of my family got killed yes..then again it would go back to if the citizens stood up together and pushed the insurgents out then they wouldn't be losing their family members because we wouldn't have to fight amongst them..so yes I'd be mad but I'd make sure I got mad at the right group of people.

No you are supporting the warlords of the Hazara tribe in their struggle against the Pashtun tribe (Taliban).

They will not fight the Pashtun Taliban because they treat them better than the Hazara warlords; that is your main problem in a nutshell.

Do not flatter yourself, they simply want you out; they do not care about your way of life.

Even the jihadist are mainly concerned with their Islamic state, they have neither the power, nor is it their goal to stamp out your way of life.

You must be delusional..how would you explain the rallies calling for death to the west and terrorist attacks and such on western nations BEFORE we invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, and not just America other western nations and even Asian nations as well suffered terrorist attacks and had rallies held calling for their destruction..sure some of them just want us gone but their is a large number that support these radical beliefs as well.

You must be delusional..how would you explain the rallies calling for death to the west and terrorist attacks and such on western nations BEFORE we invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, and not just America other western nations and even Asian nations as well.

Give them a break, they've been living in the f***ing desert for all this time. I'm sure it would affect you too :rolleyes:

If they were there for espionage purposes, why should they be released? They were spying on sovereign nation. There is no need for their release. If they were just normal civilians I can see why they should be released but if they are covert agents, Iran has every right to detain them.

After all, would America release foreign spies if it caught them on American soil? As yourself this.

We have.

*looks at cold war*

Give them a break, they've been living in the f***ing desert for all this time. I'm sure it would affect you too :rolleyes:

thats what it is...it must be those damn camels...they're behind all this...

http://www.nationsonline.org/gallery/Havana_Cuba.jpg
http://images.worldres.com/property/a52500/52745/hotel.jpg
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0Je5wvHgmFGqxkAyRCJzbkF?p=varadero
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=cayo+coco
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Looks like a nice place to me.

You must be delusional..how would you explain the rallies calling for death to the west and terrorist attacks and such on western nations BEFORE we invaded Iraq or Afghanistan, and not just America other western nations and even Asian nations as well.

Do you really think that terror attacks can destoy a state, or a people or a way of life?

No, the 9-11 attack was a tactic of a radical fringe-group named al-qaeda in order to rally muslims in other countries behind "the knights banner". According to their own sources they have the goal to erect an Islamic state in the muslim lands. Their attack was mainly to get into the picture as the main contenders to lead this islamic state. And the response of the US government helped their cause greatly.

Al-Qaeda has turned from a radical fringe group into a social construct. Though the organisation has suffered greatly under the attacks, al-qaeda is more alive than it has ever been. Because they succeeded in becomming an ideology. If you and I decide to become an al-qaeda cell, we can simply call ourselves al-qaeda and we subsequently are al-qaeda, without any contact with the organisation; al-qaeda is a social construct and cannot be destroyed through bombs.

If they were really spies, and the U.S. really cared about getting them back, they wouldn't be demanding in the open. They'd be dealing in private.

*nod*

Now there is some truth to that statement.

Do you really think that terror attacks can destoy a state, or a people or a way of life?

No, the 9-11 attack was a tactic of a radical fringe-group named al-qaeda in order to rally muslims in other countries behind "the knights banner". According to their own sources they have the goal to erect an Islamic state in the muslim lands. Their attack was mainly to get into the picture as the main contenders to lead this islamic state. And the response of the US government helped their cause greatly.

Al-Qaeda has turned from a radical fringe group into a social construct. Though the organisation has suffered greatly under the attacks, al-qaeda is more alive than it has ever been. Because they succeeded in becomming an ideology. If you and I decide to become an al-qaeda cell, we can simply call ourselves al-qaeda and we subsequently are al-qaeda, without any contact with the organisation; al-qaeda is a social construct and cannot be destroyed through bombs.

Don't bother trying to teach them that you can't destroy ideas with weaponry, if they haven't figured it out by now they're not going to.

... and not just America other western nations and even Asian nations as well.prove it..

-In the last decade- Ive seen thousand pics of the Jewish-and-US flag being burned by muslim peoples... (the Danish Flag burned for one month)

but I do not recall any significant number of -burning flags- pics in the last 10 years for any other Democracy.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0Je5mYQg2FGJA4AsS2JzbkF?p=flag+burning

We have.

*looks at cold war*

What did the US get out of it? Cash, or prisoner swaps? Come on, you don't really expect me to believe they gave them away without a price tag?

Looks like a nice place to me.Cuba is a very nice Tourism destination.. Ask Canadians or Europeans.

.. except for the part controlled by the occupation army.

I am no longer only asking for the Gitmo POWn to be sent for a lawful trial in the US.. I am now asking my Dear Leader to give them back their land.

What did the US get out of it? Cash, or prisoner swaps? Come on, you don't really expect me to believe they gave them away without a price tag?

What do you think? Of course we did swaps. It was an unwritten rule.

Most Americans with the radical exceptions like the KKK and such aren't calling for the eradication of Islam or Islamic people..meanwhile they're are regular protests calling for the destruction of the western world...

It is only a small part of Americans that are calling for the eradication of Islam or Islamic people, but they all want us dead. They are really mean and all out to get us thus we must bomb their contries and kill civillians because they want us dead.:rolleyes:

We have.

*looks at cold war*

What did the US get out of it? Cash, or prisoner swaps? Come on, you don't really expect me to believe they gave them away without a price tag?

What do you think? Of course we did swaps. It was an unwritten rule.

But this time they are demanding an "unconditional and immediate" release. Sounds like a VERY sharp change of policy from the unwritten swap rule which dominated the Cold War.

But this time they are demanding an "unconditional and immediate" release. Sounds like a VERY sharp change of policy from the unwritten swap rule which dominated the Cold War.

Perhaps the US tried the silent diplomacy, but then found out that they had misplaced the Iranian captives.:p

Just because they don't burn a nations flag means they only target USA and Israel..you haven't seen the signs warning about how Europe will have its own 9/11 following the mohammed cartoons..or the bombings in Spain...or in the UK..or in India...but sure they only hate America and Israel..or the attacks in Jordan i believe or it may have been Syria because they accepted western ways of life.they kill their own people for having a McDonalds spring up in town...

But this time they are demanding an "unconditional and immediate" release. Sounds like a VERY sharp change of policy from the unwritten swap rule which dominated the Cold War.

And if they have not done anything wrong, why should their be conditions on their release?

It is only a small part of Americans that are calling for the eradication of Islam or Islamic people, but they all want us dead. They are really mean and all out to get us thus we must bomb their contries and kill civillians because they want us dead.:rolleyes:

Okay..there are a lot more Islamic people calling for the destruction of the west than there are westerners calling for their destruction of any Islamic country and I didn't say they ALL wanted us dead..they're are plenty of American Muslims that live peacefully with non-Muslims..and again we don't kill civilians on purpose they do nor do we hide amongst civilians putting them in further harms way they do..we don't kidnap journalists or college students and cut their heads off on TV..don't try and make a parallel between us and them there isn't one to be made.

And if they have not done anything wrong, why should their be conditions on their release?

The wrongdoing part is something we'll never figure out. Heck, even if they weren't CIA agents, if they were agitating local groups to start a revolution, it's grounds enough for a lockup. But that's besides the point.

Given Bush's history of "My way or the war drums", even if they really were CIA agents, don't you think he'd have dumped any attempts at quiet swapping? Fits his arrogance. In fact, this could be the excuse he needs to threaten "severe repercussions".

Just because they don't burn a nations flag means they only target USA and Israel..you haven't seen the signs warning about how Europe will have its own 9/11 following the mohammed cartoons..or the bombings in Spain...or in the UK..or in India...but sure they only hate America and Israel..or the attacks in Jordan i believe or it may have been Syria because they accepted western ways of life.they kill their own people for having a McDonalds spring up in town...

You see some occurences, but your analysis is not correct. Take the goal of these Jihadists in mind and you will see the working more clearly; think as a Jihadist. You can also find some hints in my post on al-qaeda being a social construct. :)

Also note that monolithic evil does not exist; what seems similar may well be different. For example, you see two people, one both praying to God, one as a christian and the other as a muslim asking God to aid him against the other, then they fight. looking from a religious perspective you would likely see a religious struggle. Taking a broader perspective you would see a boxing match.

The wrongdoing part is something we'll never figure out. Heck, even if they weren't CIA agents, if they were agitating local groups to start a revolution, it's grounds enough for a lockup. But that's besides the point.

Given Bush's history of "My way or the war drums", even if they really were CIA agents, don't you think he'd have dumped any attempts at quiet swapping? Fits his arrogance. In fact, this could be the excuse he needs to threaten "severe repercussions".

If they were not doing anything wrong, why should their be conditions on their release?

The question was left unanswered.

And if they have not done anything wrong, why should their be conditions on their release?How do you know they have done nothing illegal?

Nothing is ever fair to America unless they're clawing into your bones. Showing the tough face at this early stage for the espionage case is undiplomatic to me. Iran is trying to reach out to America (even if it has to do with hostage taking to get the attention) and American government returns hidden threats "Every option is on the table" One must ask himself/herself, why would Iran be pursuing nuclear weapons (if it is pursuing nuclear weapons that is) in the first place? What/who makes Iran feel so threaten that a nuclear weapon would be the solution to their problems? Iran is thinking realistically here, look at what happen to the "Axis of evils" termed by Bush, Iraq is being pillaged, but North Korea is untouched, and Iran is seeing this. So really, America is pushing Iran to produce a nuclear defense plan and no way would Iran abide by America’s and the EU’s terms or that would be like a sheep taking advice from a wolf. As for the American Iranians being hold up in Iran, both sides (America and Iran) must ease down on their rhetorics, although it does look awkward for the American Iranians. I mean, why would Iranian advocates visit Iran? And yes the CIA does recruit Americans with various backgrounds in ethnicity and field of careers.

If they were not doing anything wrong, why should their be conditions on their release?

We don't know if they were or weren't doing anything wrong. That's something that both sides will shout about until everyone forgets about it. It's a question that will never be answered.

But one thing I will tell you. This is prime saber rattling material for both Bush and Ahmadinejad.

Okay..there are a lot more Islamic people calling for the destruction of the west than there are westerners calling for their destruction of any Islamic country and I didn't say they ALL wanted us dead..they're are plenty of American Muslims that live peacefully with non-Muslims..and again we don't kill civilians on purpose they do nor do we hide amongst civilians putting them in further harms way they do..we don't kidnap journalists or college students and cut their heads off on TV..don't try and make a parallel between us and them there isn't one to be made.

Ever thought that the number of people that would care enough to desire the destruction of the west, is directly correlated with the havoc the US wreaks on other lives?

War will lead to civillian casualties (could be a lot less btw), that is common knowledge. You chose to go to war over other options. Do you really think that people will say: those silly Americans, they have killed my child, but I know they did not target him. It was not on purpose, it's OK.

I think they would be angry, and wonder why the US is not using its own backyard as a shooting range.

Are you suggesting they Iranian spies captured in the U.S. would get an all expense paid unlimited vacation on a tropical island? :eek:

After a brief stopover elsewhere for a quick question and answer session, yes. :)

After a brief stopover elsewhere for a quick question and answer session, yes. :)

Would that question and answer session include electrodes attatched to their nipples and testicles, and a car battery?

Would that question and answer session include electrodes attatched to their nipples and testicles, and a car battery?

Hey! Some people pay big bucks for that kind of treatment! :mad:

Hey! Some people pay big bucks for that kind of treatment! :mad:

I mean no offense, I have nothing against anyone's fetish...:)

I mean no offense, I have nothing against anyone's fetish...:)

Which makes me wonder...

What would happen if the CIA ran across a suspected terrorist that...liked... the interrogations? :eek:

Which makes me wonder...

What would happen if the CIA ran across a suspected terrorist that...liked... the interrogations? :eek:

...Why...then they just "change tatics" :fluffle:...bom bom chicka wah wah...

Which makes me wonder...

What would happen if the CIA ran across a suspected terrorist that...liked... the interrogations? :eek:

If he was half-sensible he would not tell, no matter how hard they would try to make him confess.

I think it is the first question on their list

...Why...then they just "change tatics" :fluffle:...bom bom chicka wah wah...

First clue your suspect might be a bit too 'into' your interrogations; He asks you what the safeword is. :D

First clue your suspect might be a bit too 'into' your interrogations; He asks you what the safeword is. :D

Unless the "safeword" is what they're trying to get out of the suspect :eek:

they hide among civilians and kill civilians..and a lot of them aren't even from the country so they aren't defending their homes..they're there because they listened to some wackjob that said something like

"The west is evil go kill all westerners and while your at it kill these innocent people that accept western views or tolerate western people on our holy land."

Fighting for that doesn't get you POW status.

And being sold to the US by local warlords makes one a valid prisoner? Really. Many of those in Gitmo are infact nothing more than bounties bought by the US, who had not been fighting us. They simply either pissed off the wrong warlord, or are just random blokes picked up by them.

If they were there for espionage purposes, why should they be released? They were spying on sovereign nation. There is no need for their release. If they were just normal civilians I can see why they should be released but if they are covert agents, Iran has every right to detain them.

After all, would America release foreign spies if it caught them on American soil? As yourself this.

Well, they deny they're agents, but that's a standard response anyways for intelligence agents who get caught.

Besides, I find it funny that they're yapping about unconditional release when a large number of prisoners are held without charge or trial for over what, 4 years now in US prisons?

Roflpwnt.

Which makes me wonder...

What would happen if the CIA ran across a suspected terrorist that...liked... the interrogations? :eek:

Oh my... wouldn't this make the interrogator feel a little... awkward?

Oh my... wouldn't this make the interrogator feel a little... awkward?

Oh no not at all...bom bom chicka wah wah :fluffle:

Oh my... wouldn't this make the interrogator feel a little... awkward?

Maybe he likes it too. Actually, I suspect that may be how the CIA recruits 'interrogators'. :D

How do you know they have done nothing illegal?

How do you know that they have done something illegal?

Well, I doubt they are spies. You wouldn't send a former fbi agent to do covert missions in Iran, not least because FBI doesn't deal with anything abroad. If that guy isn't a spy, why would the others be?

If they were really spies, and the U.S. really cared about getting them back, they wouldn't be demanding in the open. They'd be dealing in private.

*nod*

Ka-POW! :sniper:

Or the press crew just got a significant factor better in their research techniques while administrations all over the world, including the U.S., suddenly got much less secretive and obfuscative.
...

I am no longer only asking for the Gitmo POWn to be sent for a lawful trial in the US.. I am now asking my Dear Leader to give them back their land.
Wait, are you asking for the US to give back Gitmo to the Cubans?

We have a treaty that gives us Gitmo. And as far as I know, Castro has never demanded that the US abandon the base.

I got an idea... how about the US stops torturing people, then maybe Iran will be willing to negotiate.

Doesn't this remind anyone of the Iran-Contra scandal?

Perhaps they are trying to avoid something of that caliber this time

Besides, I find it funny that they're yapping about unconditional release when a large number of prisoners are held without charge or trial for over what, 4 years now in US prisons?

Precisely, I find it hilarious, the gall... the sheer nerve of the hypocrisy. It really is like they have no sense of shame, no face whatsoever.

Well, they don't and haven't in a long time, but still.

Wait, are you asking for the US to give back Gitmo to the Cubans?Yes.

I think we should give them back their land.

Well, Iran better release them. They deserve to be spied on with the way they try to screw the world.

Well, Iran better release them. They deserve to be spied on with the way they try to screw the world.and what are you going to do if they dont release them?

The US still has not released the Iranians part of the consular mission that were caught for "espionage" in Iraq.. have they?

Thusly the REAL reason why it comes out.

Iran spies: They captured some of our spies, this won't go well.
Jarhead: Find me whoever is part American, we'll just call them spies to make it even and give us leverage.

I doubt they were spies, it's just trying to get their guys back with a 'spy exchange'.

and what are you going to do if they dont release them?

Well, what can I do. I'm just a cog in the great machine, having no real power. But if I had a say, I'd say we build up to a special forces operation to extract them. It's painless, surgical, and there's not a thing Iran can do other than bitch. Besides, they're a lot stronger now than they were during Operation Blue Light.

I'd say we build up to a special forces operation to extract them. It's painless, surgical, and there's not a thing Iran can do other than bitch. Besides, they're a lot stronger now than they were during Operation Blue Light.#1 it is an act of war, and I am against starting a war..

Now..-If Iran starts- I would have no problem to strike back.
but I dont want to be the evil side.