NationStates Jolt Archive

Someone in my office has stuck a chain email up in our kitchen:


Bill Gates recently gave a speech at a High School about 11 things they did not and will not learn in school. He talks about how feel-good, politically correct teachings created a generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real world.
Rule 1: Life is not fair - get used to it!
Rule 2: The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.
Rule 3: You will NOT make $60, 000 a year right out of high school. You won't be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.
Rule 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.
Rule 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents had a different word for burger flipping: they called it opportunity.
Rule 6: If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from them.
Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent's generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.
Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools, they have abolished failing grades and they'll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.
Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.
Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life, people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.
Rule 11: Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one


Now, this infuriates me. I want to rip it down every time I see it.

Everywhere I go, I see the overwhelming belief that political correctness is stupid. I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair.

I want to argue that political correctness was a bold attempt to make a better world, with good reason, but it has been undermined by apathy and cynicism.

The Reasons for Political Correctness:

People have, for a long time, tended towards closed groups that they identify with, while being cruel to outsiders. A huge proportion of relationships in the world are based on dominance.

Cruelty, in particular racism and bullying, dehumanise everyone involved, and have caused general social problems. Relationships based on dominance make the powerful inhuman and take away the freedom of thought of the weak.

These are big problems that have lasted a long time. Political correctness has been very effective in schools at dealing with these problems.

The Betrayal of the Revolution

There is one critical line in that chain email that says, Life is not fair - get used to it! That gets me so angry, because so much of society's endeavour should be to make life fair. The people who criticise political correctness imply that this aim is futile, and that kindness goes against the inevitable nature of humans to be selfish. These people are opposed to practical freedom of thought, uncertainty and idealism (things I hold sacred) because ridicule and dominance are ingrained behaviours for them (things I hold to be evil).

We are much too tolerant of this.

Now, this infuriates me. I want to rip it down every time I see it.

Then do it, and stop bitching about it on the internet!

¬_¬

There is one critical line in that chain email that says, Life is not fair - get used to it! That gets me so angry, because so much of society's endeavour should be to make life fair. The people who criticise political correctness imply that this aim is futile, and that kindness goes against the inevitable nature of humans to be selfish. These people are opposed to practical freedom of thought, uncertainty and idealism (things I hold sacred) because ridicule and dominance are ingrained behaviours for them (things I hold to be evil).

We are much too tolerant of this.

There's only one thing I can say about your little rant

Life isn't fair, get used to it :rolleyes:


Everywhere I go, I see the overwhelming belief that political correctness is stupid. I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair.

In my experience those people are in the minority not the majority.

I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair.

Well, that would be because they are, and it is. And it is not in the best interests (see 1) for people with more than their fair share to rectify 2.

Humans are cunts. It's a hardware problem.

Do these things ever turn out to be true? (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/liferule.htm)

Exhibit A - Ant

The ant has little to no freedom, or will to self preserve. It's species/colony continues due to it selflessly sacrificing itself for the greater cause.

Exhibit B - Human

The human has a degree of free will and is not completely tied to its social system. It has a far greater instinct to self preserve and advance than the ant, while maintaining at least some concern for its family/species. However it is capable of selfishness, and not afraid to demonstrate it.

Then do it, and stop bitching about it on the internet!
He's, like, talking about the destruction of the rules, man! It's, like, totally about revolution, and stuff. The symbolism of tearing down the rules is, like, a symbol of liberation.


All hippy jokes aside, I do sympathise with the OP. Life really is not fair, but the unfairness is an aspect of a system that humans have the technical power to change.

But political correctness isn't the answer. We can't cover up unfairness and inequality by just changing our language and our hiring policies.

Heh, it didn't sound much like something Bill Gates would say. Maybe I can just rip it down, but no-one is every willing to defend political correctness, which is dumb since it's enforced so often.

Well, that would be because they are, and it is. And it is not in the best interests (see 1) for people with more than their fair share to rectify 2.

Humans are cunts. It's a hardware problem.

I disagree, I reckon the behaviours of selfishness, ridicule and dominance come from developed ways of thinking. I wanted to concentrate on political correctness at school, because I think the solution is to develop children to think in a different way. That is, to be idealist, uncertain and kind. It's hard for me to put it in words, but it seems to me that those two mindsets are very distinct opposites. Also, the first is evil and the second is good.

Howabout instead of brainwashing every kid in the world... we just brainwash you instead. Problem solved. I don't like the idea of a happy world. It just doesn't.... seem natural.

I don't like the idea of a happy world. It just doesn't.... seem natural.
That wouldn't be a problem if we brainwashed you. :p

To paraphrase Calvin, life is unfair but why is it never unfair in my favour?

It's not about being happy. It's about not being screwed up by having been bullied or being a bully. Also, things like uncertainty and curiosity about the world only work when children grow up confident and able to say stupid things without being ridiculed.

I disagree, I reckon the behaviours of selfishness, ridicule and dominance come from developed ways of thinking. I wanted to concentrate on political correctness at school, because I think the solution is to develop children to think in a different way. That is, to be idealist, uncertain and kind. It's hard for me to put it in words, but it seems to me that those two mindsets are very distinct opposites. Also, the first is evil and the second is good.

Kids already are idealist. And they're certainly not kind. I don't think they'd be very good at it, either.
Besides, if you did that with some kids they'd eventually become a slave underclass to all the other kids - or any who just wound up not conforming to your ideals. They'd be lambs to the slaughter.

Note: "Good" and "Evil" are entirely subjective. Also, I don't think Sinuhue will be enthusiastic about doing away with dominance.

Kids already are idealist. And they're certainly not kind. I don't think they'd be very good at it, either.
Besides, if you did that with some kids they'd eventually become a slave underclass to all the other kids - or any who just wound up not conforming to your ideals. They'd be lambs to the slaughter.

If you look at it, a lot of victories we have over each other only happen because we let them. Anyone who completely defies the rules becomes hard to stop and/or control.

Now, this infuriates me. I want to rip it down every time I see it.

Everywhere I go, I see the overwhelming belief that political correctness is stupid. I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair.

huh? these 'rules' seem to apply to quite a few young'ens that I know. these are things that are not really covered in school, and it does not seem to argue anything about being PC or not.

Rule 1 i thing refers more to a young persons ability to say "THIS IS SOOOO UNFAIR" when having to do something. All these rules are aimed at young people as the average 15 year seems to have some dillusions about the future.

If you look at it, a lot of victories we have over each other only happen because we let them. Anyone who completely defies the rules becomes hard to stop and/or control.
Rules or not, if you don't eat, or you get shot, stabbed or beaten to a pulp by things you've annoyed, you lose, and there's no amount of cheating or creative interpretation of the game that lets you beat that.

If you look at it, a lot of victories we have over each other only happen because we let them. Anyone who completely defies the rules becomes hard to stop and/or control.

That's very true. The amazing thing is that, despite the clear advantages of being completely selfish, people can still be altruist. For me, society is only bearable because of this fact.

Kids already are idealist. And they're certainly not kind. I don't think they'd be very good at it, either.
Besides, if you did that with some kids they'd eventually become a slave underclass to all the other kids - or any who just wound up not conforming to your ideals. They'd be lambs to the slaughter.


Somehow kids stop being idealist. That's a bad thing, right?

I'm not saying developing kids to be kind is easy - it needs a lot of intervention from teachers to stop bullying, hence the overreaction to racist names and so-on.

Note: "Good" and "Evil" are entirely subjective.

Argh, not this again. Morals make no sense unless they are universal.

"Life's unfair" is the "Why did the chicken cross the road" of 'sage' advice.

Argh, not this again. Morals make no sense unless they are universal.
I guess we're not discussing that, but I disagree on the basis of the impossibility of universal knowledge (we can never know what the right thing to do in every scenario is because we never know all the facts of each one).

That's very true. The amazing thing is that, despite the clear advantages of being completely selfish, people can still be altruist. For me, society is only bearable because of this fact.

For some reason, I expected that to be a link, and I find it funny that it's not.

Somehow kids stop being idealist. That's a bad thing, right?
Not necessarily. They just learn that idealism achieves nothing, and they're better off with more concrete concerns.
I'm still idealist, I just realise it's doomed to failure, and it's better to stop worrying and have a nice cuppa instead.

I'm not saying developing kids to be kind is easy - it needs a lot of intervention from teachers to stop bullying, hence the overreaction to racist names and so-on.
And I'm saying that even if it were possible, it'd just increase the number of kids who'd get exploited, bullied, abused, etcetera., because you'll increase the number of kids who won't fight back.

Argh, not this again. Morals make no sense unless they are universal.
Who says they have to make sense?
And people disagreeing with your morality is surely an indication against a universal, concrete morality, no?

"Life's unfair" is the "Why did the chicken cross the road" of 'sage' advice.

So much for my chances of winning this thread.

Not necessarily. They just learn that idealism achieves nothing, and they're better off with more concrete concerns.
I'm still idealist, I just realise it's doomed to failure, and it's better to stop worrying and have a nice cuppa instead.
...
And I'm saying that even if it were possible, it'd just increase the number of kids who'd get exploited, bullied, abused, etcetera., because you'll increase the number of kids who won't fight back.
You're confusing idealism with passivism. It's possible to be idealist in an assertive manner, maybe even necessary; it could be argued that that is the very basis of liberal politics.

I read that. It sounded quite familiar, and not recent.

"car-phone" ... gotcha.

Bill is a different man now I'm sure.

EDIT: OK, OK, I accepted the premise of a chain mail. It is still very, very old, and not everybody has the sense to actually read snopes.

huh? these 'rules' seem to apply to quite a few young'ens that I know. these are things that are not really covered in school, and it does not seem to argue anything about being PC or not.

I'm not complaining about the rules being false, but rather that they are presented as 'This is how it is, life's unfair, live with it'.


I'm still idealist, I just realise it's doomed to failure, and it's better to stop worrying and have a nice cuppa instead.


And I'm saying that even if it were possible, it'd just increase the number of kids who'd get exploited, bullied, abused, etcetera., because you'll increase the number of kids who won't fight back.

My whole point is that people should fight back. Injustice and cruelty are both common, but political-correctness and the liberal education ideas of the last couple of decades are part of the battle against them. I wish people would acknowledge that, rather than imposing lots of politically-correct rules without knowing their reasons.

A lot of people are willing to make sacrifices to make the world better. Linky! (http://www.instituteforphilanthropy.org.uk/statistics.html)

wait... who expected life to be fair? Maybe being the oldest child in a family with four children taught me this lesson early, or maybe being ignored for jobs because I didn't know the right people helped, but life isn't fair and it has nothing to do with being politically correct. Even if racism and sexism and every form of negative discrimination were done away with you would still have people who are born into poverty, who have bad luck, you'll have others who are in the right place at the right time, who get on their boss's good side et c.

Life isn't fair.

(although I don't know that Bill Gates actually gave that speech, I'll have to look it up on snopes later)

Someone in my office has stuck a chain email up in our kitchen:



We are much too tolerant of this.

you hate this quote so much that you memorize it bit by bit as you walk back and forth from the employee kitchen? or did you memorize the entire thing at one sitting then type it up at home?

pardon my disbelief.

in any case

if you dont like it TAKE IT DOWN.

welcome to the revolution.

So a balancing statement, perhaps based on Gates' more recent speeches, could just get stuck underneath the management's offering ...

That is what you meant by fighting back, isn't it? ;)

I was planning to find out who posted it and stick it... ahem, but your idea would work too.

wait... who expected life to be fair? Maybe being the oldest child in a family with four children taught me this lesson early, or maybe being ignored for jobs because I didn't know the right people helped, but life isn't fair and it has nothing to do with being politically correct. Even if racism and sexism and every form of negative discrimination were done away with you would still have people who are born into poverty, who have bad luck, you'll have others who are in the right place at the right time, who get on their boss's good side et c.

Life isn't fair.

(although I don't know that Bill Gates actually gave that speech, I'll have to look it up on snopes later)

He didn't. Nor did Kurt Vonnegut. (Somebody already linked to the snopes article).

I don't see why political correctness has to be in schools. And it's moronic that schools are too afraid to give D's. I never knew there were schools like that! So my teacher has to say I'm getting a B, while I should have an F? BS. How am I supposed to improve? Not that I'm happy with D's and F's, but if I'd much rather earn a legitimite D or F than a politically correct B. This also leads to something that's been pissing me off lately-- if C's are average, then why are C's almost worse than F's? Average isn't as bad as failing. It's nowhere near that.

back on topic....

On the other hand, with the self-esteem-- it's probably a good idea for the elementary school years, but after that... no. Middle school and high school don't care if you have self-esteem either.

And the whole "enjoy being a kid while you still are one"-- If you're telling me to look back fondly at my four years of middle school hell, go fall down a well and die. Seriously. I did not enjoy my middle school years save for a few funny memories. High school, however... yay marching band! :)

Do these things ever turn out to be true? (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/liferule.htm)

Bill is a different man now I'm sure.

(although I don't know that Bill Gates actually gave that speech, I'll have to look it up on snopes later)

Jeez, read the thread. He never said it.

Someone in my office has stuck a chain email up in our kitchen:



Now, this infuriates me. I want to rip it down every time I see it.

Everywhere I go, I see the overwhelming belief that political correctness is stupid. I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair.

I want to argue that political correctness was a bold attempt to make a better world, with good reason, but it has been undermined by apathy and cynicism.

The Reasons for Political Correctness:

People have, for a long time, tended towards closed groups that they identify with, while being cruel to outsiders. A huge proportion of relationships in the world are based on dominance.

Cruelty, in particular racism and bullying, dehumanise everyone involved, and have caused general social problems. Relationships based on dominance make the powerful inhuman and take away the freedom of thought of the weak.

These are big problems that have lasted a long time. Political correctness has been very effective in schools at dealing with these problems.

The Betrayal of the Revolution

There is one critical line in that chain email that says, Life is not fair - get used to it! That gets me so angry, because so much of society's endeavour should be to make life fair. The people who criticise political correctness imply that this aim is futile, and that kindness goes against the inevitable nature of humans to be selfish. These people are opposed to practical freedom of thought, uncertainty and idealism (things I hold sacred) because ridicule and dominance are ingrained behaviours for them (things I hold to be evil).

We are much too tolerant of this.

Bullies...
Political Correctness is pandering. Merely "Political Correctness" is the politcically term for pandering.

Everything on that is 100% correct.

It is directed at people like you.

It doesnt begin with assumption that people are unfair, or cruel.
It beginsd with assumption that one must always first and foremost do for them selves, that failure is a reality, and that there are not always second chances.

Political Correctness is bullshit...Bullshit.

It has provided nothign for the common good...

Bullies, you are a candy ass. If you got the point of the email you would have gotten a spine and torn it down your self but instead you whine about unpolitically correct it is.

Its Damned good thing MLK wasnt PC, or Ghandi, or X, or Thomas Jefferson, Or human rights activists, protestors, you have the audacity to Political Correctness a REVOLUTION...it flies in the face of evey revolutionary idea.

Communists, Capitalists, Atheists, Fundamentalists, Blacks, Jews, Whites, can all agree that nothing of note to societal influece was ever acheived by someone who didnt want to offend anyones sensibilities.

There is nothing revolutionary about being PC, it is socialogical weakness...

Being PC means keeping the the status quo, not rocking the boat, not hurting anyones feelings.

PC is not the Civil Rights movement, the Sufferage Movement, The Homosexual Agenda(as in desire for equal treatment, that agenda), PETA activist dont give a shit if they hurt your feelings...they wnat to shock you.

Abortion activists...how i hate them..want to offend you they want to wake you up to their idea.

Activism and Revolution are not NICE!!!

The world is not nice by default at all the pandering to weak kneed people like you will not make it so.

Buy a fucking helmut and move on.

Heh, it didn't sound much like something Bill Gates would say. Maybe I can just rip it down, but no-one is every willing to defend political correctness, which is dumb since it's enforced so often.



I disagree, I reckon the behaviours of selfishness, ridicule and dominance come from developed ways of thinking. I wanted to concentrate on political correctness at school, because I think the solution is to develop children to think in a different way. That is, to be idealist, uncertain and kind. It's hard for me to put it in words, but it seems to me that those two mindsets are very distinct opposites. Also, the first is evil and the second is good.

Political Correctness does not breed idealism. Turmoil does.
You dont dream of Hot unless you are cold. You dont care about the hungry if your belly has never been empty. You dont stand up for the oprressed if you have never been beaten down...to be PC you will TALK like you do.
But PC has never been, and never will be about ACTION.

Idealism is the well spring of strength used to fight injustice not force inane rules about fairness as defined by your mush mouth ideals.

People are not NICE, and they are not FAIR.
People are not MEAN and they are not UNFAIR.

They are fucking people...many things all at once for many different reason and political correctness does not support the fact that i might be having a shitty day and i might tell you to go fuck yourself for no reason at all. Raised in a PC enviorment you would crack like a feeble like egg, all full of its own IMAGINED self worth.

You are not important to me, if you live forever or die right fucking now it will me absolutely nothing to me.

That statement is not politically correct...it is however true. It isnt mean, cruel, unfair, oppressive or anything. It is a simple fact.

Being PC is unimportant.

Manners, Courtesy, and using your own damned voice and your own damned tools is what you need in the world.

Being coddled makes you weak.

Do you have kids? I do. When we play thought games(Chess, Checkers, Tic Tac Toe, whatever) I dont EVER let them win. Never. I give nothing.
They hated learning to play games with me. Now they love it.
Because they WIN. They know through their own merit, their own effort and their own will they achieve victory, they reach their goal.

Now consistantly beating a child at a child's game is cetainly not good for their self esteen according to PC values...but according to realistic values its the only way to go.

My daughter was assualted at school.
SHe is quiet and likes to chat with her friends.
She choked out one boy and held the other in a painful grip until she pealed off by a teacher. I taught to her to never allow someone to take advantage of her, of her weakness, not of her strength. That was of course not politically correct...me teaching my daughter to fight to WIN. No, it would have been better if I had taught conflict resolution skills...so while they were twisting her arms off and punching her she could explain how unfair it was, and how bad it made her feel...very effective.

I dont know what world you think you live in, but you ar not an idealist.
Idealism wants everyone to be GREAT, to excell through their own power...not to have their hand held through every problem.

I pity you.

Now, this infuriates me. I want to rip it down every time I see it. Then rip it down! Nobody's stopping you! (Are they...?)
Everywhere I go, I see the overwhelming belief that political correctness is stupid. I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair. Ummm... that's not society, it's reality.

I want to argue that political correctness was a bold attempt to make a better world, with good reason, but it has been undermined by apathy and cynicism.

The Reasons for Political Correctness:

People have, for a long time, tended towards closed groups that they identify with, while being cruel to outsiders. A huge proportion of relationships in the world are based on dominance.

Cruelty, in particular racism and bullying, dehumanise everyone involved, and have caused general social problems. Relationships based on dominance make the powerful inhuman and take away the freedom of thought of the weak.

These are big problems that have lasted a long time. Political correctness has been very effective in schools at dealing with these problems. No, it hasn't. It hasn't changed the game, just the graphics. And the graphics suck even more.

The Betrayal of the Revolution :rolleyes:

There is one critical line in that chain email that says, Life is not fair - get used to it! That gets me so angry, because so much of society's endeavour should be to make life fair. The people who criticise political correctness imply that this aim is futile, and that kindness goes against the inevitable nature of humans to be selfish. These people are opposed to practical freedom of thought, uncertainty and idealism (things I hold sacred) because ridicule and dominance are ingrained behaviours for them (things I hold to be evil). I'm not against kindness... but politcial correctness is moronic. You apparently have no clue what the opponents of it really think.
We are much too tolerant of this. Of what, reality?

It has provided nothign for the common good...

There is nothing revolutionary about being PC, it is socialogical weakness...

Being PC means keeping the the status quo, not rocking the boat, not hurting anyones feelings.


I thought we had agreed that the world included a lot of cruelty, domination and ridicule. If being PC could change that, it would be rocking the boat.

How political correctness reduces cruelty, domination and ridicule:

You brought up the example of the women's equal rights movement. Now, achieving equality takes a lot more than the law being fair, or the state's treatment being fair. It also needs respect for the kinds of work women tend to do (domestic stuff, cleaning, nursing), the confidence of young girls to try the (much better paid) fields like science and maths, equality of opportunity in the workplace, the power that comes from being treated seriously rather than as a sexual object, confidence to think and speak without being dismissed.

The language and attitudes that people take to women's employment are a big part of political correctness. For example, school textbooks try to give examples of women doing traditionally male jobs, and vice-versa, because this undermines the sexist bigotry and bullying of adult life. Derogatory words like 'slut' or 'whore' are treated surprisingly seriously because their cumulative effect is the dismissive view of women as sex objects. This approach might not completely solve the above problems, but you have to admit that it helps.

Why get burned up over what Billy Gates has to say - if that's even Bill's own scribbling?

Why get burned up over what Billy Gates has to say - if that's even Bill's own scribbling?

Apparently the OP is angry over the fact that he has to work for a politically incorrect nerd. *nod*

Why get burned up over what Billy Gates has to say - if that's even Bill's own scribbling?

Welcome to the tarpit: Ow, ow, I give up! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12725572&postcount=29)

Welcome to the tarpit: Ow, ow, I give up! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12725572&postcount=29)

And there's a link to Snopes on the first page... :rolleyes:

My whole point is that people should fight back. Injustice and cruelty are both common, but political-correctness and the liberal education ideas of the last couple of decades are part of the battle against them. I wish people would acknowledge that, rather than imposing lots of politically-correct rules without knowing their reasons.

A lot of people are willing to make sacrifices to make the world better. Linky! (http://www.instituteforphilanthropy.org.uk/statistics.html)

Political correctness has made things much worse in schools. Kids don't feel good abotu themselves at all, and now they won't learn. Do you have any kids in school? Did you go to a non-PC school? I highly doubt it. Walk into any school with PC policies, and see how they work. The Internet has many resources that prove that PCness is BAD for schools.

Alright, I haven't really addressed the main complaint against political correctness in schools. The point of whoever wrote that email was that children who have been taught kindness, fairness and sensitivity at school are in for a big shock when they meet the rest of society.

What will happen then?

A lot of posters here are implying that they will become wimps, be walkovers.

I disagree. Wherever I've seen this shock, it's always been the source of a great anger at the injustice of the world, and a desire to make it better.


You dont dream of Hot unless you are cold. You dont care about the hungry if your belly has never been empty. You dont stand up for the oprressed if you have never been beaten down...

You have got it completely wrong. This is really the heart of what I'm saying, those who are bullied become bullies themselves. Being brought up to accept injustice as the norm makes people selfish and cruel.

Yeah, it didn't sound much like Bill. Anyway, who cares?

Plainly, benorim cares.

Editing the OP to make it clear that everyone knows BILL DIDN'T SAY it would probably stop all the kneejerk posts.

*makes cup of tea, waiting for Skibereen to post*

To be honest, I was hoping to provoke argument with the topic's title. I already suspected it wasn't Bill Gates who wrote it.

*also waiting*

You have got it completely wrong. This is really the heart of what I'm saying, those who are bullied become bullies themselves. Being brought up to accept injustice as the norm makes people selfish and cruel.

Utter... bull...crap. Now you're just being a complete idiot. I was bullied through most of my elementary school years and all of my middle school years. Am I a selfish and cruel bully? No. I'm a cynical loner and I'm nice. Yes, some victims bring guns to school, some victims lash out... that's because PC policies make it impossible to fight back against hte bullies, who most of the time just need to be stood up to. But no, I couldn't do that. Why? My school has some zero-tolerance policies when it comes to bullying. I was bullied by the popular kids, the teacher's pets, the suck-ups, the student athletes. NOBODY WOULD HAVE CARED ABOUT WHAT I HAD TO SAY ANYWAY. I did tell, and what did I get? "Have confidence, Erin. Just have confidence in yourself." Very easy to do while you're constantly being told that you're stupid, ugly, worthless, you can't do anything. If I had the guts to tell someone and they got suspended/expelled (and since the bullies tended to be popular twits, the most they would have gotten was in-school suspension), people would have hated me even more. I had my stuff stolen in seventh grade. That same year, somebody took my flute case and dropped it on the floor, and my flute was simply lying on the band room floor... the person who had dropped it hadn't bothered to pick it up. Did I report someone? No. According to PC policies, I couldn't report my flute being dropped and scattered all over the place if I didn't know who did it. I was always picked on riding the bus... the bus driver rarely paid attention. I hated riding hte bus. The worst part was, if I had reported someone, it would have gotten worse. IF I fought back, i'd get a bus suspension (which would be gladly welcomed) but no way to school.

See how PCness helped me in middle school/? It didn't, did it? Just made me silent and unconfident. I have accepted that life is unfair. It is only fair to the bullies.

Seriously, you have no idea what's going on in American schools today.

Well what exactly do you expect? He is a textbook capitalist, after all, and its not for nothing that he has earned the ire of practically the entire left. Surely you wouldn't expect him to say things like "hard work and dedication should pay off, but they often don't!" and "I got billions of dollars by manipulating a corrupt system and selling subpar merchandise".

Additionally, though, many of his bits of advice are self-evidently absurd, such as "Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one". As if! None of the nerds I've ever met (on line at least, and I've talked to a lot of them) come close to business success. It's all just just nonsense with the trite message of "just get out the lube and let capitalism screw you over!"

If you look at it, a lot of victories we have over each other only happen because we let them. Anyone who completely defies the rules becomes hard to stop and/or control.

"It is only after you have lost everything, that you're free to do anything."
-Anonymous

Seems to fit here for some reason...

Cookie for anyone who guesses why

None of the nerds I've ever met (on line at least, and I've talked to a lot of them) come close to business success.
He's not talking about business. The nerds grow in strength as the influence of the internet spreads. It is only a matter of time before the very fabric of human society becomes as putty in our hands. Ah haha! Ah haha haha!

Utter... bull...crap. Now you're just being a complete idiot. I was bullied through most of my elementary school years and all of my middle school years. Am I a selfish and cruel bully? No. I'm a cynical loner and I'm nice. Yes, some victims bring guns to school, some victims lash out... that's because PC policies make it impossible to fight back against hte bullies, who most of the time just need to be stood up to. But no, I couldn't do that. Why? My school has some zero-tolerance policies when it comes to bullying. I was bullied by the popular kids, the teacher's pets, the suck-ups, the student athletes. NOBODY WOULD HAVE CARED ABOUT WHAT I HAD TO SAY ANYWAY. I did tell, and what did I get? "Have confidence, Erin. Just have confidence in yourself." Very easy to do while you're constantly being told that you're stupid, ugly, worthless, you can't do anything. If I had the guts to tell someone and they got suspended/expelled (and since the bullies tended to be popular twits, the most they would have gotten was in-school suspension), people would have hated me even more. I had my stuff stolen in seventh grade. That same year, somebody took my flute case and dropped it on the floor, and my flute was simply lying on the band room floor... the person who had dropped it hadn't bothered to pick it up. Did I report someone? No. According to PC policies, I couldn't report my flute being dropped and scattered all over the place if I didn't know who did it. I was always picked on riding the bus... the bus driver rarely paid attention. I hated riding hte bus. The worst part was, if I had reported someone, it would have gotten worse. IF I fought back, i'd get a bus suspension (which would be gladly welcomed) but no way to school.

See how PCness helped me in middle school/? It didn't, did it? Just made me silent and unconfident. I have accepted that life is unfair. It is only fair to the bullies.

Seriously, you have no idea what's going on in American schools today.

There's not much I can say to you about this. It's really bad. I don't think political correctness was to blame, and if policies made it worse then they were wrong, because that's precisely the kind of situation they are meant to help. I think that schools do a lot better in Britain - and I'm sure similar experiences were common 50 years ago. In fact, to go against the grain, I think schools are much better than they used to be, in part because of politically correct concerns.

I still think that being bullied damages people. So it's more to your credit that you're a good person rather than the screwed up adult you could have become.

"It is only after you have lost everything, that you're free to do anything."
-Anonymous

It's not anonymous, it's from Fight Club. Spoken by Tyler Durden, I think. Can't remember if the quote's in the book too.

I looked it up and it's not mentioned as being by anyone else previously, as these things often are.

You should've read the white text.

I did...

It's not anonymous, it's from Fight Club. Spoken by Tyler Durden, I think. Can't remember if the quote's in the book too.

I looked it up and it's not mentioned as being by anyone else previously, as these things often are.

You should've read the white text.

There's not much I can say to you about this. It's really bad. I don't think political correctness was to blame, and if policies made it worse then they were wrong, because that's precisely the kind of situation they are meant to help. I think that schools do a lot better in Britain - and I'm sure similar experiences were common 50 years ago. In fact, to go against the grain, I think schools are much better than they used to be, in part because of politically correct concerns. Ummm... political correctness is still ruining schools. Schools are WORSE because of it. PC doctrine states that if you don't have confidence, you don't go anywhere. So the unconfident people just wind up even more unconfident.

I still think that being bullied damages people. So it's more to your credit that you're a good person rather than the screwed up adult you could have become.
It does damage people. It completely eliminated any confidence I had (well, if I'd had any). It destroyed my self-esteem. And yes, it is more to my credit that I don't lash out at people or engage in internet pyromania. But others do, because all PCness does is tell people to be happy and confident, when that very rarely works.

It does damage people. It completely eliminated any confidence I had (well, if I'd had any). It destroyed my self-esteem. And yes, it is more to my credit that I don't lash out at people or engage in internet pyromania. But others do, because all PCness does is tell people to be happy and confident, when that very rarely works.

Anything that includes 'fake smiles' is automatic bullshit.

Anything that includes 'fake smiles' is automatic bullshit.

Yeah...

"Just be confident and put a big smile on. Laugh a little. Even if it's fake smiles and laughs, they'll soon become real!"

:upyours:

Ummm... political correctness is still ruining schools. Schools are WORSE because of it. PC doctrine states that if you don't have confidence, you don't go anywhere. So the unconfident people just wind up even more unconfident.
Actually, you're missing the subtle undercurrent; unconfident people are made to believe that a lack of confidence actually deprives you of a voice in society, thereby perpetuating its existence.

What the unconfident need is not someone to be confident on their behalf, or a fake air of confidence, but a social movement that steps away from the need to be resolute. Such an idea would require a radical overhaul of government, market and religion alike, but I reckon that's way overdue anyway.

Actually, you're missing the subtle undercurrent; unconfident people are made to believe that a lack of confidence actually deprives you of a voice in society, thereby perpetuating its existence. That's what I was saying...

I have beef with Rule 3. I am making $80,000, just out of highschool and I did not even need my diploma to get this job. Obviously the tit pretending to be Bill Gates has no idea what he is talking about.

I have beef with Rule 3. I am making $80,000, just out of highschool and I did not even need my diploma to get this job. Obviously the tit pretending to be Bill Gates has no idea what he is talking about.

Your high school gave you a diploma? :confused:

Anything that includes 'fake smiles' is automatic bullshit.

You've got that right. The floor managers at my supermarket tell us to "smile, smile, smile!" all the fucking time, but we don't, because it actually irritates the customers when we do it. And, in a lot of our customers' own words, it's "really weird".

With that said, yeah, anyone or anything that tries to make you just "smile and be happy about it" when you actually feel otherwise is just bullshit.

I have beef with Rule 3. I am making $80,000, just out of highschool and I did not even need my diploma to get this job. Obviously the tit pretending to be Bill Gates has no idea what he is talking about.

Working those oil fields will make you one rich son of a bitch. My uncle did that, and he make $60,000 a year in the 1960s, and that is a shitload of money nowadays. Of course, he worked laying pipelines... That's always been a big money job.

Working those oil fields will make you one rich son of a bitch. My uncle did that, and he make $60,000 a year in the 1960s, and that is a shitload of money nowadays. Of course, he worked laying pipelines... That's always been a big money job.

Especially those ones in Alaska. They'll pay you extra just to GO to Alaska.

Especially those ones in Alaska. They'll pay you extra just to GO to Alaska.

You can make a lot of money in Alaska, period. Those Arctic fishermen make around $200,000 a year, and all they do is work six months out at sea. It's not easy work, but that's a lot of money...

...Especially considering that you could take another job for the other six months you're on land. :p

Your high school gave you a diploma? :confused:

Or certificate or whatever it is called where you live?

Or certificate or whatever it is called where you live?

I don't even know what our high schools give, lol. Diplomas are from universities, no?

I don't even know what our high schools give, lol. Diplomas are from universities, no?

High schools in the States and Canada give diplomas when students graduate. Granted, they're not as useful as college diplomas, but still.

Someone in my office has stuck a chain email up in our kitchen:



Now, this infuriates me. I want to rip it down every time I see it.

Everywhere I go, I see the overwhelming belief that political correctness is stupid. I think it's related to the latent assumption in society that people are inherently selfish and the world inherently unfair.

I want to argue that political correctness was a bold attempt to make a better world, with good reason, but it has been undermined by apathy and cynicism.

The Reasons for Political Correctness:

People have, for a long time, tended towards closed groups that they identify with, while being cruel to outsiders. A huge proportion of relationships in the world are based on dominance.

Cruelty, in particular racism and bullying, dehumanise everyone involved, and have caused general social problems. Relationships based on dominance make the powerful inhuman and take away the freedom of thought of the weak.

These are big problems that have lasted a long time. Political correctness has been very effective in schools at dealing with these problems.

The Betrayal of the Revolution

There is one critical line in that chain email that says, Life is not fair - get used to it! That gets me so angry, because so much of society's endeavour should be to make life fair. The people who criticise political correctness imply that this aim is futile, and that kindness goes against the inevitable nature of humans to be selfish. These people are opposed to practical freedom of thought, uncertainty and idealism (things I hold sacred) because ridicule and dominance are ingrained behaviours for them (things I hold to be evil).

We are much too tolerant of this.

The only thing I like on that list is number 11.

High schools in the States and Canada give diplomas when students graduate. Granted, they're not as useful as college diplomas, but still.

Gotcha.

Hmm, let's see... second... no, third thread I've embarassed myself in tonight. I'm on a roll. :)

I don't even know what our high schools give, lol. Diplomas are from universities, no?
Both do here.

Sometimes you lose, sometimes other win.;)

Can't argue with any of those 11 rules. All are true after all. How someone can believe that life is actually fair must be suffering from some kind of delusion or had rich parents. Either way they'll learn the truth at some point.

Can't argue with any of those 11 rules. All are true after all. How someone can believe that life is actually fair must be suffering from some kind of delusion or had rich parents. Either way they'll learn the truth at some point.

#12 rocks too. :)

#12 rocks too. :)

There was a 12th?

*looks back to the OP*

You can make a lot of money in Alaska, period. Those Arctic fishermen make around $200,000 a year, and all they do is work six months out at sea. It's not easy work, but that's a lot of money...

...Especially considering that you could take another job for the other six months you're on land. :p
Yeah...who cares they have one of the highest fatality rates of any profession...

Listen folks...if you want to make some money? Get your asses to Alberta. We're flying in workers from China and Vietnam because we can't get enough people to work in the oil patch.

Plus you could hang out in Fort Mac with all the hookers, meth and deadly fights you could want. It's like the gold rush all over again.

Both do here.

Na, Diplomas in Canada are for high school, and usually for the one or two year programs in post-secondary. You get Degrees for the Bachelor, Masters or Doctorate programs.

Sheesh people!

I want to argue that political correctness was a bold attempt to make a better world, with good reason, but it has been undermined by apathy and cynicism.


I would argue it's a waste of money, promoting wishy washy policies to satisfy peoples naivity.



People have, for a long time, tended towards closed groups that they identify with, while being cruel to outsiders. A huge proportion of relationships in the world are based on dominance.


So?


Cruelty, in particular racism and bullying, dehumanise everyone involved, and have caused general social problems. Relationships based on dominance make the powerful inhuman and take away the freedom of thought of the weak.


There is more to political correctness then fighting racism and bullying, and there are better ways to tackle it.


These are big problems that have lasted a long time. Political correctness has been very effective in schools at dealing with these problems.


Sure :rolleyes:


There is one critical line in that chain email that says, Life is not fair - get used to it! That gets me so angry, because so much of society's endeavour should be to make life fair.

Get used to it.


The people who criticise political correctness imply that this aim is futile, and that kindness goes against the inevitable nature of humans to be selfish.

You can't force people to be kind, be realistic.


These people are opposed to practical freedom of thought.

What? Since when?

What? Since when?

My point there is that practical freedom of thought is tied up to a mindset of curiosity and uncertainty. Relationships based on dominance or ridicule destroy that mindset because they make people afraid to say radical or stupid things.

My point there is that practical freedom of thought is tied up to a mindset of curiosity and uncertainty. Relationships based on dominance or ridicule destroy that mindset because they make people afraid to say radical or stupid things.

Like making racist remarks,etc?

My point there is that practical freedom of thought is tied up to a mindset of curiosity and uncertainty. Relationships based on dominance or ridicule destroy that mindset because they make people afraid to say radical or stupid things.

Thats what pollitical correctness does, because it forces someones mindset to submit to the politically accepted norm.

Thats what pollitical correctness does, because it forces someones mindset to submit to the politically accepted norm.

Heh, that's a good point. But political correctness applied properly should always be linked to the reasons why those things are wrong to say. That is, I wouldn't advocate making the word '******' completely prohibited, but rather challenging any child who does use it. So a little bit of restriction about racism etc. is a lot better than the stifling effects of bullying without those controls.

Heh, that's a good point. But political correctness applied properly should always be linked to the reasons why those things are wrong to say. That is, I wouldn't advocate making the word '******' completely prohibited, but rather challenging any child who does use it. So a little bit of restriction about racism etc. is a lot better than the stifling effects of bullying without those controls.

Those reasons might be quite subjective though

Yeah...who cares they have one of the highest fatality rates of any profession...

Listen folks...if you want to make some money? Get your asses to Alberta. We're flying in workers from China and Vietnam because we can't get enough people to work in the oil patch.

Plus you could hang out in Fort Mac with all the hookers, meth and deadly fights you could want. It's like the gold rush all over again.

I dunno, the more people we have the less reason that my employer has to pay me ridiculously to do little.

Also, I haven't seem many of these Asians of which you speak.

EDIT: Cocaine seems to be the drug of choice atm.