NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/01/kidney.show.reut/index.html

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (Reuters) -- A Dutch reality television show in which a supposedly dying woman had to pick one of three contestants to whom she would donate a kidney was revealed as an elaborate hoax on Friday.

The show, which the broadcaster had said aimed to focus attention on a shortage of donor organs in the Netherlands, was condemned by Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende before broadcast Friday night and sparked controversy worldwide.

Identified only as "Lisa," the 37-year-old woman who had been said to be suffering from a brain tumor was to base her selection on the person's history and conversations with the candidates' families and friends.

In the last minutes of the program, she was revealed as a healthy actress and producers stunned viewers by saying "The Big Donorshow" was a hoax.

The contestants were also part of the deception, although all three are genuine kidney patients.

"Their life is bitter reality," the host said after revealing the deception, just at the moment at which Lisa was to have stated her choice.

Dutch Education Minister Ronald Plasterk hailed the show as a "fantastic stunt" and an intelligent way to draw attention to the shortage of donor organs.
Heated debate expected

The show is expected to set off heated debate between those who believe reality television has gone too far and others who believe the publicity was generated for a good cause.

Producers apologized to viewers and said they hoped "outrage" over the show would turn into anger over the lack of organs for transplant.

Viewers in the Netherlands were asked to give advice via text messages in the 80-minute show, and appeals ran throughout for people to donate their organs.

Early in the show Lisa was shown selecting three people from 25 candidate profiles who matched her blood group.

"It feels like playing God," said a fraught-looking Lisa. "Think of it as playing Santa Claus," replied the show's host.

The show had set off a storm of criticism, both at home and abroad, though some kidney patients said ahead of the show that they approved of it because it drew attention to their plight.

Balkenende had said the show was detrimental to the whole business of organ donation and it would do the reputation of the Netherlands no good abroad, Dutch news agency ANP said.

Dutch embassies received complaints from people expressing their shock over the show.

Public broadcaster BNN, which came up with the idea, said it wanted to draw attention to the growing shortage of organ donors in the Netherlands.

"Money has never been part of this thing, and no money will be made from this," said BNN Chairman Laurans Drillich.

Callers to a local radio station had suggested the whole thing could be a hoax by BNN to build up its ratings.


Wow...

Well, at least the kidney people KNEW it was a hoax.

Why mask good intentions with a hoax?

There already is a 100+ posts thread on this on the main pages. Use that, don't spam, kindly.

Why mask good intentions with a hoax?

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, reality-t.v. involves some sort of hoax. Either the contestants are in on it when they're supposedly not, or the games are staged, etc.

There already is a 100+ posts thread on this on the main pages. Use that, don't spam, kindly.

It's not spam to start a thread on the fact that it was declared a hoax. Perhaps you should attempt to learn what spam is before you randomly accuse people of it. I could have posted it on that thread, but there's a rather high chance that a bunch of people would not read the entire thread before posting.

Frankly speaking good for them.

I could have posted it on that thread, but there's a rather high chance that a bunch of people would not read the entire thread before posting.Yup, spam cannibalising someone else's thread topic because you want your post to be noticed.

Yup, spam cannibalising someone else's thread topic because you want your post to be noticed.

I agree, it's shocking for me to update a story and want it to be noticed so people stop ranting about it! Maybe I should make a new thread for every post I make! Why don't you do it first! You clearly know so much more then me and are so much wiser! In fact, I worship you! HEY EVERYBODY! LET'S SACRIFICE A GOAT TO FASS!

I agree, it's shocking for me to update a story and want it to be noticed so people stop ranting about it!
Nobody was ranting, and in fact the thread is focused on the hoax now.
Maybe I should make a new thread for every post I make! That's what would happen if everyone did as you and started a new thread once something changed in a story. Why don't you do it first! You clearly know so much more then me and are so much wiser! In fact, I worship you! HEY EVERYBODY! LET'S SACRIFICE A GOAT TO FASS!It's almost embarrassing to see how bad you are at that.

It's almost embarrassing to see how bad you are at that.
what if we sacrifice a soy-goat to you? no animal will be harmed in the sacrifice. ;)

what if we sacrifice a soy-goat to you? no animal will be harmed in the sacrifice. ;)

People are animals, and self-immolation through incompetence would be too much of a risk in this instance.

what if we sacrifice a soy-goat to you? no animal will be harmed in the sacrifice. ;)

What about the Society for the Ethical Treatment of Soy Animals? Won't they protest us? And if we try to stop them, Batshit Insane Groups Conversation and Overall Comprehension and Kickassness Society will bug us.

What about the Society for the Ethical Treatment of Soy Animals? Won't they protest us? And if we try to stop them, Batshit Insane Groups Conversation and Overall Comprehension and Kickassness Society will bug us.

In about 93-94ish I had a website on Geocities that was the People for the ethical treatment of faux-cows. I had this big petition about how soy cows are dying every day for our precious soy burgers and how every time you buy a faux leather coat you are killing part of God's creation. Lots of people signed. It was great.

of course it's been gone for a long time now. :(

People are animals, and self-immolation through incompetence would be too much of a risk in this instance.

are you calling me a soy-goat? :confused::eek::mad::p;)

are you calling me a soy-goat? :confused::eek::mad::p;)

You, goat? I'd be more prone to say sow or heffer. They're much more matronly.

Wow, not one person commented on the acronym for the Batshit Insane Groups Conversation and Overall Comprehension and Kickassness Society.

Wow, not one person commented on the acronym for the Batshit Insane Groups Conversation and Overall Comprehension and Kickassness Society.

Probably because it wasn't the least bit clever and thus best left untouched.

I'd expect you to be proud! It's exactly like your posts!

Except, of course, people tend to respond to my banalities without me having to point them out and beg for vicarious attention because I made a reference to *oh, dear heavens me* cocks. Oooh, aren't you naughty?

Because they're so poorly devised they simply have to be pointed out.

And I know that it eats you alive, but, aww, it's OK. You'll get your wish fulfilled someday and someone will notice you, if only you start enough spam threads where you syphon other people's topics. There, there.

Are you sure fabricating an unspeakably abrasive personality wouldn't work too?

You'd first have to fabricate a personality, period. Then you could try building on that.

You, goat? I'd be more prone to say sow or heffer. They're much more matronly.

Not always the case, though. My goat is so matronly that it wants my neighbor's infant to join the herd, and cries back when her baby cries. The lady makes no effort to mask her irritation at that. The cows I used to work with were often sorta neglectful by comparison. :p

Sorry to go offtopic, but this thread is painful to read. Ouch.

I had a feeling something like this would happen. Though I was kinda expecting it to turn out that the show actually had two kidneys ready, so that everybody would get one.

Despite what some might think was poor taste, I'm fairly sure the people who get the organs that they wouldn't be getting if not for the show won't be complaining.

I had a feeling something like this would happen. Though I was kinda expecting it to turn out that the show actually had two kidneys ready, so that everybody would get one.

Despite what some might think was poor taste, I'm fairly sure the people who get the organs that they wouldn't be getting if not for the show won't be complaining.

That's true. One complication, though, that the article mentioned (in the original thread) is that transplants often fail, with the body rejecting the organ. It would sort of compound the tragedy of it (from a PR standpoint) if you made some poor guy or girl jump through hoops on national t.v. just to earn a rejected organ and death.

I heard about this for a second. Who thought it wasn't a hoax?

I heard about this for a second. Who thought it wasn't a hoax?

Foreigners like me and a few others. They're known for their invasive reality t.v. as it is over there. It was sort of believeable, I thought. :p

Foreigners like me and a few others. They're known for their invasive reality t.v. as it is over there. It was sort of believeable, I thought. :p

Fuck.


I guess maybe if I paid more attention to it, I might have been convinced. I consider myself pretty gullible.

Fuck.


I guess maybe if I paid more attention to it, I might have been convinced. I consider myself pretty gullible.

It fooled some newscasters apparently. I saw it on my local news site. :p

I had a feeling something like this would happen. Though I was kinda expecting it to turn out that the show actually had two kidneys ready, so that everybody would get one.

Despite what some might think was poor taste, I'm fairly sure the people who get the organs that they wouldn't be getting if not for the show won't be complaining.

What makes you think anyone is going to get a kidney because of the show?

If I wasn't already a donor, this sort of farce would be more likley to turn me off to the whole thing than convince me to become one.

What makes you think anyone is going to get a kidney because of the show?

The main reason most people are not donors is because they dislike thinking about death, not because they have anything against donating. You get the form to register your preference at the central donor registry, and then put it away "to fill in later", and after a few months it accidentally gets thrown away with the old newspapers.

The topic is now out in the open. People will talk about it at work, at parties and so on. Filling in the forms and actually sending them in now has a much smaller psychological barrier.

I'm glad it was a hoax. But still, there are better ways of attracting publicity.

You, goat? I'd be more prone to say sow or heffer. They're much more matronly.

Heffer of course, sows are not as graceful. ;)

Just as long as I am Herford or Angus though, guernseys are idiots.

I'm more surprised by the fact that I saw this in the paper today. Usually when I see something like that on NSG it takes 1-2 weeks for it to be in the paper.

The main reason most people are not donors is because they dislike thinking about death, not because they have anything against donating. You get the form to register your preference at the central donor registry, and then put it away "to fill in later", and after a few months it accidentally gets thrown away with the old newspapers.

This is why I support having an opt-out system, rather than an opt-in system. Most often, it isn't just a matter of not wanting to think about death or about having a problem with the donor system. The fact is, many people are downright apathetic. They aren't going to go fill out forms dealing with organ donation because they simply don't care enough to take the time. They don't care if they are organ donors are not - they just don't want any hassle.

Several countries operate under and opt-out system, and it works just fine for them. And you don't have to worry about the people who are apathetic - they're organ donors.

The topic is now out in the open. People will talk about it at work, at parties and so on. Filling in the forms and actually sending them in now has a much smaller psychological barrier.

The topic wasn't hidden before. I highly doubt that a media circus surrounding a disgusting excuse for a TV show is going to end up with very many people rushing out to become an organ donor. If anything, it willl be a few weeks of people talking about the show and more people will go get the forms, and then lose them later.

If you want to convince people to be organ donors, you have to educate them about the donor system and the suffering of those who need organs (and not in a farcicle format) and/or make it incredibly convenient to do.

The topic wasn't hidden before. I highly doubt that a media circus surrounding a disgusting excuse for a TV show is going to end up with very many people rushing out to become an organ donor. If anything, it willl be a few weeks of people talking about the show and more people will go get the forms, and then lose them later.

Well.. 18.000 people downloaded the form friday evening alone. We shall see what they do with it, and how many followed today.

If you want to convince people to be organ donors, you have to educate them about the donor system and the suffering of those who need organs (and not in a farcicle format) and/or make it incredibly convenient to do.

Every citizen of the Netherlands over 18 receives the form at his/her doormat every two years.

Well.. 18.000 people downloaded the form friday evening alone. We shall see what they do with it, and how many followed today.

And how much of a difference it makes in the long run.

Every citizen of the Netherlands over 18 receives the form at his/her doormat every two years.

And that's obviously not done a lot of good, eh? Apparently not convenient enough or not educated enough. Go for the opt-out system. We'll never get that implemented here in the good ole' US of A, unfortunately, but it seems to work just fine in Europe.

Maybe it would help if their was some sort of incentive for organ donation. Other then saving another human's life, which is not an incentive that gets a lot of people going, obviously.

Like in the NS issue ?

Maybe.

Maybe it would help if their was some sort of incentive for organ donation. Other then saving another human's life, which is not an incentive that gets a lot of people going, obviously.

Like in the NS issue ?

I remember I heard an idea proposed on NS that all organs will be automatically taken and you have to sign the form to keep them. I liked that.

I remember I heard an idea proposed on NS that all organs will be automatically taken and you have to sign the form to keep them. I liked that.

You'll forgive me if I don't like the concept of the government butchering corpses unless you specifically tell them "No, I would prefer not to have my organs taken. Thank you for your generous offer, however."

The government should take what you give, not knock you out, steal your kidney, and leave you in a cooler full of ice.

Every citizen of the Netherlands over 18 receives the form at his/her doormat every two years.

Actually, I haven't received one in over 3 years now :)

And the first one is still in a pile of papers at my parents' place :rolleyes:

And how much of a difference it makes in the long run.

Not much. You would need a real weekly donorshow for that, that appeals to the five-minutes-of-fame depravity of most humans.
But abusing the fact that most humans simply aren't those shining beacons of freedom and compassion is "unethical".

And that's obviously not done a lot of good, eh? Apparently not convenient enough or not educated enough.
Hard to make it more convenient... and the accompanying leaflet does not really leave much to be desired as far as clarity is concerned.

Go for the opt-out system. We'll never get that implemented here in the good ole' US of A, unfortunately, but it seems to work just fine in Europe.
For some reason resistance to opt-out is just as strong here. I personally favour the idea - but since I already am a registered donor favouring an idea that does not change things for me is easy.

Actually, I haven't received one in over 3 years now :)

You live illegally :p ?

To each his own, but my opinion is that you're dead, you're not going to use your damn organs, and it's selfish to keep them for yourself. If one is not religious, one shouldn't care, and if one is religious, does one really think that their God is going to say 'Whoops, you're missing some bits- we only allow whole people into heaven, sorry.'? People need the money the government takes in taxes more than their organs. If they're dead, of course. I doubt anyone would be in favour of the government knocking people out for the express purpose of stealing your kidneys.

^ Wait a minute- Europe actually does this?

I remember I heard an idea proposed on NS that all organs will be automatically taken and you have to sign the form to keep them. I liked that.

I think thats the french system

I remember I heard an idea proposed on NS that all organs will be automatically taken and you have to sign the form to keep them. I liked that.

Yeah, that's the opt-out system. There are several countries that have already implemented it.

The problem with what Zarakon seems to be suggesting is that paying for organs ends up being a catastrophe. The poor are exploited and will make unheatlhy decisions to try and get money. People try to cover up reasons that they might not be an eligible donor in order to get money. Families that arae desperate for money may feel that they have to donatae the organs of a loved one, even if it is something they do not want to do and will regret. And so on....


You'll forgive me if I don't like the concept of the government butchering corpses unless you specifically tell them "No, I would prefer not to have my organs taken. Thank you for your generous offer, however."

The government should take what you give, not knock you out, steal your kidney, and leave you in a cooler full of ice.

The opt-out system doesn't deal with live organ donation. It deals with cadaveric donation. And it isn't the government taking anything. It's a matter of what hospital policy can/will be.

Right now, the policy (in the US, anyways), is to assume that a dead person's organs cannot be taken unless that intent has been expressly stated - usually by the person's family. (Note that, even if a person is an organ donor, the family can say no to organ donation - something I think is a crock of shit). So when a tragic and sudden death occurs (prolonged sickness generally means that someone cannot donate organs anyways), the hospital has to go to the now-grieving family and ask for the organs. The people makaing the decisions probably aren't even fully psychologically aware that their loved one is dead, and the hospital is asking to take their organs.

With an opt-out system, on the other hand, the hospitals would assume that the organs of an eligible cadaveric donor could be used unless given explicit directions otherwise. This doesn't, of course, force anyone to be an organ donor. Those opposed to it would have the same opportunity that those currently fully in suport of it would have - sign a form and change your status in the system. The difference is that the apathetic - those who could care less if they are organ donors or not - end up as organ donors.

I think thats the french system

*wikis*

So it is. I'm sure that was presented apparently as an original idea. Never knew that.

[insert vapid comment about learning here]

It seems to work reasonably well, though.

Hard to make it more convenient... and the accompanying leaflet does not really leave much to be desired as far as clarity is concerned.

When I said "extremely convenient" - I meant that most people won't do a damn thing. It has to be pretty much automatic. You're suggesting that people must read a pamphlet and then fill out a form and then send that form in....

That's too much for a lot of people.

For some reason resistance to opt-out is just as strong here. I personally favour the idea - but since I already am a registered donor favouring an idea that does not change things for me is easy.

I'll never understand it, really. Maybe it's just an extension of the laziness I was talking about above.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/01/kidney.show.reut/index.html



Wow...

Well, at least the kidney people KNEW it was a hoax.

Oh, that's rich. But it won't work.

So far, about 30,000 people have requested donor forms as a result of the show. It seems to have had some effect, anyway.

You'd first have to fabricate a personality, period. Then you could try building on that.

:rolleyes: Geschpatzies. Frankly, you two are both behaving like idiots. Although I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter to you, does it?

:rolleyes: Geschpatzies. Frankly, you two are both behaving like idiots. Although I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter to you, does it?

You'll notice I, at least, deleted my posts. I realized there was no point in arguing with anyone as pointless as Fass (Why does anyone pay attention to him, anyway?)

You'll notice I, at least, deleted my posts. I realized there was no point in arguing with anyone as pointless as Fass (Why does anyone pay attention to him, anyway?)

Yeah. I have a temper that gets the better of my judgement. People listen to him because:


He's insulting
He has a giant ego


That's it.