NationStates Jolt Archive

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The Amityville Horror
Amityville, Long Island, New York
108 (was 112) Ocean Ave.

On Thursday, November 14, 1974, Ronald DeFeo Jr. shot six members of his family while they lay in bed. Soon after the police arrested him for the murders, he started claiming that he was possessed and that there was evil inside the house. Of course the courts did not buy it and Ronnie Jr. is now serving six consecutive life sentences.

A year later, Kathy and George Lutz’s with Kathy three children from a previous marriage brought the infamous house. Twenty eight days later, the family fled from the house, claiming that it was haunted. This was the start of a series of event that would lead to the making of Anson book "The Amityville Horror" as well as the film adaptation of the book, several more films and finally the 2005 remake of "The Amityville Horror".

However, even today in 2007, 32 years later, people are still talking about the house, still talking about the events that may have taken place there and the family, even though Kathy and George has now passed away. So, the question remains, what is the real story behind the Amityville Horror? It is pretty obvious that the book and Hollywood has embellished some points of the story, after all sensationalism sells.

The Lutz’s story
George Lutz has made several communications on his website (http://www.amityvillehorror.com) forum and through lectures and book signing has told the real story. According to George Lutz, the haunting started on the first day when Father Ralph J Pecoraro came to bless the house. He was in the sewing room when he noticed a large amount of flies, then he is slapped by an unseen force and told to “Get Out” which the father obeyed. From there, George contends that he would hear the sound of marching bands at night, foul stench coming from the ‘red room’ (which is simply a small closet like space in the basement of the house) and several other phenomenon that would be associated with Poltergeist activity. A few incidents are worth pointing out, like the infamous “Jodie”, who communicated with Missy Lutz, the daughter of Kathy Lutz. There was also incident where George would not only hear the front door open and shut but he even saw Kathy rise up from the bed (while asleep) and morph into another being all together before laying back down and morphing back to her original form. Kathy would smell “old lady” perfume and get the sensation that she was not alone in the house, and on more than one occasion would feel something embrace her.

Everyday that the Lutz’s occupied the house, the haunting would intensify, even to the point where Chris Lutz was injured when a window slammed down onto his hand breaking it. The noises, footsteps, band music, the sensation would increase everyday during the Lutz’s stay in the house, until the very last day, when all Hell broke loose.

On the last day, the Lutz experienced what they described as a full on Poltergeist activity, the band music was now in full swing, doors & windows were opening and closing, and the noise of footsteps and voices that they couldn’t find the source to intensified dramatically on the last day. The Lutz’s, unable to put up with it any longer, decided to move to Kathy’s mother house.

Aftermath

Soon after the Lutz left 112 Ocean Ave, they contacted Ronald DeFeo Jr. attorney, William Weber. William Weber talked with George and Kathy Lutz about the things that the DeFeos claim to experienced in the house leading up to the murders. Soon after, the Lutz’s story got out in the Good Housekeeping magazine. Soon Paranormal researchers like the Warrens, Kaplans, and Hans Holzer were lining up to get a look at the house. The Lutz’s decided to go with the Warrens. The Warrens investigated the house twice, and in both incidents, the Warrens claim to experience a demonic force, a force that is not of this world and several other entities as well. According to the Warrens, whatever was in the house could only be driven out by a Roman Catholic/Anglican priest who would do Mass in the house, and the priest life would be put in danger. Lorraine Warren even commented saying “I hope this is as close to Hell as I'll ever get.” After investigating the Amityville House.

However, not everyone believes the Lutz’s story, one of them was Stephen Kaplan, who after bringing ‘witches’ and camera crew to the house, George turned him away. Since he was turned away, Stephen argued against the Lutz’s claiming that the whole story was a hoax to make money, and to gain notoriety. Attorney William Weber joined Stephen, claiming that George and Kathy conspired with him to write a book about the haunting, and in turn it would grant Ronald DeFeo Jr. a re-trail to determine if he was criminally insane when the murder took place.

The book, the movie and the re-make seem to have added more to the story, and since it embellished the story many people do have a hard time believing the Lutz’s and that includes the occupant that took the house after the Lutzs, the Cromarties. The Cromarties went as far as to actually allow “That’s Incredible” to film inside the house to show that it’s a normal family house with no ghost or demons. You can watch it here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bFmW7tSmmY). It is important to notice that the Lutz’s were the only to claim that the house is haunted; it is not to say that the events have stopped, they were just the only one to come forward with it. Also DeFeo Jr. does keep on changing his story, one minute he claims that he was high and drunk, next possessed, and the next claim that it was a mafia hit.

Did the Lutz’s experience a supernatural haunting, demonic in nature? We may never know, with Kathy and George Lutz now in the afterlife, and the children are not talking to anyone about the haunting. In the end, it’s up to the individual to come to their own conclusion about the horror at Amityville. Personally I believe that the Lutz’s did experience something, to abandoned a high price house after only 28 days of living there, something drove them out, and something drove them all across the country to California. What was it, I don’t know, and I probably will never know unless I win the lottery and buy the house to find out for myself.

It is important to note that a horror did occur there, six people did lose their lives while they were sound asleep, by a member of their own family, and that is something we can never forget.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/PAY5353/dg.jpg

I've always thought it to be a big hoax, but it's interesting nonetheless.

I've always thought it to be a big hoax, but it's interesting nonetheless.

It is interesting, but Amtiyville got nothing on Smurl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurl_haunting)

It is interesting, but Amtiyville got nothing on Smurl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurl_haunting)

Wow, guess not. :eek:

Wow, guess not. :eek:

So, why do you think Amityville is a Hoax?

I believe that Amityville did have paranormal events associated with it, but the Lutzes did expand the story for their own benefit. There are some aspects of the story that do not add up, and some which are inconsistent with the testimony of people involved, but there are others that were not inconsistent and were likely to have happened.

The Smurl haunting in the other hand...God damn. That was definitely a serious case of paranormal phenomena, and whatever did it was absolutely evil.

*follows link*

Um... delusional much?
Seriously, why do people always say "ghosts!" when delusion seems much more likely?

This was debunked long ago...

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/ghosts/amityville.asp

*follows link*

Um... delusional much?
Seriously, why do people always say "ghosts!" when delusion seems much more likely?

Lots of reasons - we just had a ghost thread recently. Motivations are several and various.

Seriously, why do people always say "ghosts!" when delusion seems much more likely?

This is not a delusion; it may be a hoax, but to call it a delusion is incorrect usage of the term. It's only a delusion if they believe it is true even though there is evidence to the contrary that it is not. Until a rational explanation for a phenomenon can be provided, and that explanation is verified to be the cause of the phenomenon in question, it is not a delusion to believe that the occurrence is paranormal.

Now, in the case of Amityville, the current occupants, IIRC, have not experienced anything unusual. This in and of itself does not discredit their story (since there have been many cases of paranormal phenomena going through cycles of dormancy and activity), but it does call it in to question.

So, why do you think Amityville is a Hoax?

The Lutzes did, in fact, profit from telling their story, #1., at least according to a documentary I saw. Second, DeFeo's story wasn't consistent, and I believe he confessed to the hoax eventually. Even if he didn't, he was known as a moody and abusive guy with a drinking problem long before he was "possessed." It's not like the ghost turned Mr. Rogers into Ted Bundy overnight - the guy was already unstable.

I believe that Amityville did have paranormal events associated with it, but the Lutzes did expand the story for their own benefit. There are some aspects of the story that do not add up, and some which are inconsistent with the testimony of people involved, but there are others that were not inconsistent and were likely to have happened.

The Smurl haunting in the other hand...God damn. That was definitely a serious case of paranormal phenomena, and whatever did it was absolutely evil.

I'm actually going to Penn. in June, and I'll see if I can convince Leah (yes my ex who I still talk to, she's interested in the Paranormal as well) to see if we can't go see the house.

As for the embellishment, I believe that actually happened with Jay Anson, and Hollywood, up till his death, George Lutz has always maintain the original story, and he never changed it to my knowledge. It's just the book and the movie that added on to it, and because of that, yea you do get inconsistencies.

Just bring in a rocket or RPG launcher, and level the house(s).

Problem solved. :cool:

This is not a delusion; it may be a hoax, but to call it a delusion is incorrect usage of the term. It's only a delusion if they believe it is true even though there is evidence to the contrary that it is not. Until a rational explanation for a phenomenon can be provided, and that explanation is verified to be the cause of the phenomenon in question, it is not a delusion to believe that the occurrence is paranormal.

Now, in the case of Amityville, the current occupants, IIRC, have not experienced anything unusual. This in and of itself does not discredit their story (since there have been many cases of paranormal phenomena going through cycles of dormancy and activity), but it does call it in to question.

The current owner of the house (and it's just one guy believe it or not) hasn't come out and say that he experienced anything unusual, but that's either because whatever is in there is 'asleep' or that the haunting is still active it's just that the occupant aren't saying anything.

You do have to keep in mind that after the Lutzs came out with their story, it did create a media frenzy to the small town of Amityville, and the town did not like it. In fact up until recently they litterly disowned the Lutzs and the story on their website saying that the community believed it to be a Hoax and that it covers up the murders. So, maybe the hauntings are still happening, it's just that the occupant are keeping quiet about it because they don't want to be an outcast in their community.

When it does come to demonic hauntings, or hauntings like this. They usually are short term, and then after the haunting happens and dies down, it either goes away or it rest until it (whatever is causing the haunting) can do the cycle again.

Just bring in a rocket or RPG launcher, and level the house(s).

Problem solved. :cool:

What if the entity is attached to the land though, and not the house?

I'm actually going to Penn. in June, and I'll see if I can convince Leah (yes my ex who I still talk to, she's interested in the Paranormal as well) to see if we can't go see the house.

I want to check it out some time; we have family in the area, so if I ever have the chance I'll probably stop by.

As for the embellishment, I believe that actually happened with Jay Anson, and Hollywood, up till his death, George Lutz has always maintain the original story, and he never changed it to my knowledge. It's just the book and the movie that added on to it, and because of that, yea you do get inconsistencies.

That could be. Unfortunately, we'll never get the chance to know for sure.

What if the entity is attached to the land though, and not the house?
Bring a nuke.

This is not a delusion; it may be a hoax, but to call it a delusion is incorrect usage of the term. It's only a delusion if they believe it is true even though there is evidence to the contrary that it is not.

Actually, it just has to not be subject to contradictory evidence or reason; it doesn't have to follow that contradictory evidence was provided (I was going with reason). But hey, I don't know their cultural or religious beliefs, and if such occurrances did follow said beliefs for them, then it is an exception.

So, I'll say hallucination instead? (For the parts that aren't easily explained, such as the opening and closing drawers and doors).

That could be. Unfortunately, we'll never get the chance to know for sure.

Unless we all play the lotto and whoever wins the big one buys the house and lives in it and report back to NSG! :D

Bring a nuke.

lol, wow, talk about bringing a gun to a knife fight. :p

It is interesting, but Amtiyville got nothing on Smurl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurl_haunting)
Which, I notice, also had the Warrens involved.
Which makes me think that either:
Both were just outlandish hoaxes designed to make money for the ppl involved (and did);
or
The Warrens themselves are the demons, who possess a house terrify the occupants, then turn up and offer their services to 'rid' the house of all the bad things.

Actually, it just has to not be subject to contradictory evidence or reason; it doesn't have to follow that contradictory evidence was provided (I was going with reason). But hey, I don't know their cultural or religious beliefs, and if such occurrances did follow said beliefs for them, then it is an exception.

No, that would mean anything unfalsifiable is a delusion, which makes no sense because it would mean anything subjective is delusional. It's way too broad a definition for the negative connotations of the term. A delusion, of course, is supposed to be a bad thing.

So, I'll say hallucination instead? (For the parts that aren't easily explained, such as the opening and closing drawers and doors).

That makes more sense, but of course you'd have to provide an explanation for the cause of the hallucinations (and there very well may be some).

Unless we all play the lotto and whoever wins the big one buys the house and lives in it and report back to NSG! :D

I'd probably pass on that bet. :) As much as I love the paranormal, the thought of experiencing something like that scares the living shit out of me...

The paranormal (for me) is like a tornado; I want to see it in person, but I don't want to see it coming towards me.

Which, I notice, also had the Warrens involved.
Which makes me think that either:
Both were just outlandish hoaxes designed to make money for the ppl involved (and did);
or
The Warrens themselves are the demons, who possess a house terrify the occupants, then turn up and offer their services to 'rid' the house of all the bad things.

Eh Amityville is in New York, Smurl is in Penn, and the Warrens live in Connecticut, so they probably have an easy drive to these places, and they are well known in the Paranormal circle, just as T.A.P.S. are. However I don't really agree with the Warrens using psychics (Lorraine being one of them) because you can't really verify anything that the psychic says or feels or whatever.

The Warrens themselves are the demons, who possess a house terrify the occupants, then turn up and offer their services to 'rid' the house of all the bad things.

That's actually a really interesting idea. Of course, it's also possible the Warrens did in fact cause something to happen so that they could make money off of it; in a lot of ways, that's way more evil than a hoax.

lol, wow, talk about bringing a gun to a knife fight. :p
My favorite thing to do. :D

My favorite thing to do. :D

If it works for Indiana Jones, it's good enough for me.

That's actually a really interesting idea. Of course, it's also possible the Warrens did in fact cause something to happen so that they could make money off of it; in a lot of ways, that's way more evil than a hoax.

Yea, I would have to say that I don't really like the Warrens methods. I really wish T.A.P.S. would be given a chance to look into Amityville as well as Smurl (and if they've already looked at one of those two places, then let me know please.) The Warrens tend to rely on psychics waaayyy too much and really I don't like that. I'd prefer to use video cameras, digital voice recorder, analog voice recorder, digital camera, film camera, thermostats, etc. Equipments that can collect data that other can look at and verify.

If it works for Indiana Jones, it's good enough for me.

LOL, I love that scene.

/hijack.

Yea, I would have to say that I don't really like the Warrens methods. I really wish T.A.P.S. would be given a chance to look into Amityville as well as Smurl (and if they've already looked at one of those two places, then let me know please.) The Warrens tend to rely on psychics waaayyy too much and really I don't like that. I'd prefer to use video cameras, digital voice recorder, analog voice recorder, digital camera, film camera, thermostats, etc. Equipments that can collect data that other can look at and verify.

Yeah, I've always liked the TAPS style approach and the fact that they're good at reducing the number of potential outside influences that might tamper with the data they gather. If only they were around during these cases...

If we're going to test the paranormal, we need to use workable methods to do so that produce real evidence; personal experience and testimony is good for a starting point, but hard data is what pushes a case one way or another.

Yeah, I've always liked the TAPS style approach and the fact that they're good at reducing the number of potential outside influences that might tamper with the data they gather. If only they were around during these cases...

If we're going to test the paranormal, we need to use workable methods to do so that produce real evidence; personal experience and testimony is good for a starting point, but hard data is what pushes a case one way or another.

Agreed! As far as I can tell, Smurl still has it's haunting still going on so the T.A.P.S. team can at least look into Smurl. Amityville, eh I don't know, the haunting is either gone or good, or it's 'asleep' right now, waiting to start up again.

Agreed! As far as I can tell, Smurl still has it's haunting still going on so the T.A.P.S. team can at least look into Smurl. Amityville, eh I don't know, the haunting is either gone or good, or it's 'asleep' right now, waiting to start up again.

I wonder if they could get permission to do it; if so, it might be a good idea to see if anything is still going on.

Of course, TAPS might also avoid high profile cases like the Smurls to keep the investigations more independent; I imagine if you went after something big like that, it would be tough to conduct a real investigation because of all the pressure to produce something that would come with it.

That's actually a really interesting idea. Of course, it's also possible the Warrens did in fact cause something to happen so that they could make money off of it; in a lot of ways, that's way more evil than a hoax.
I think it'd make a funny little short story/TV program.
Ghost hunter Husband & wife are called up to exorcise a house, etc etc. Finally after lots of terrifying incidents, they manage to 'clean' the house.

At the end of the story/show the couple are alone at their own home. Typical homely scene, settling up next to a fire drinking a cup of hot cocoa. Suddenly there's a knock on the door. They open it to come face-to-face with a hideous demon. Instead of being frightened, they welcome it in and morge into demons themselves. The first demon is their son who was causing all the hauntings. They chat and laugh about the 'exorcism' and then start talking about the next place to target. One of them randomly points at the map and their finger lands on Amityville.
end of story.

No, that would mean anything unfalsifiable is a delusion, which makes no sense because it would mean anything subjective is delusional. It's way too broad a definition for the negative connotations of the term. A delusion, of course, is supposed to be a bad thing.


That makes more sense, but of course you'd have to provide an explanation for the cause of the hallucinations (and there very well may be some).

No, because if it is unfalsifiable, it may still be subject to reason or, failing that, a cultural or religious belief. Anyway, I went with the medical definition, so it's not my fault if it's broad. : /

Well, they could have been high. Or under a lot of stress (schizophrenic break). The problem is that there are too many alternative answers that do not involve the paranormal, and I rather like Ockham's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor).

I wonder if they could get permission to do it; if so, it might be a good idea to see if anything is still going on.

Of course, TAPS might also avoid high profile cases like the Smurls to keep the investigations more independent; I imagine if you went after something big like that, it would be tough to conduct a real investigation because of all the pressure to produce something that would come with it.

That is true, and plus people would probably follow them, thus making it harder to actually carry out the investigation, of course they could just seal off the property and not let anyone back in.

I don't think they'll get a chance to take a crack at Amityville though, the town and the current owner really want to move on and leave the murders as well as the haunting in the history books, so it's going to take some Henry Kissinger strength convincing to let them do this.

I think it'd make a funny little short story/TV program.
*snip*
end of story.

*laughs* I like it!

*laughs* I like it!
ThanQ. I think it'd have worked well as a 'Twilight Zone' story.
but then I'm old school like that.

No, because if it is unfalsifiable, it may still be subject to reason or, failing that, a cultural or religious belief. Anyway, I went with the medical definition, so it's not my fault if it's broad. : /

The use of delusion is kind of pointless except in extreme cases, because nobody can agree on what the hell it exactly means..

Well, they could have been high. Or under a lot of stress (schizophrenic break). The problem is that there are too many alternative answers that do not involve the paranormal, and I rather like Ockham's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor).

Could've been a lot of things. Sadly, nobody ever had a chance to investigate it objectively, so we'll be left with the word of one group against the word of another.

Why did they change the windows? It looked so much nicer..

Why did they change the windows? It looked so much nicer..

In the hopes that people who comes to see the house won't recognize it without the quarter moon window.

In the hopes that people who comes to see the house won't recognize it without the quarter moon window.

Such a shame..

Wouldnt a gate suffice?

So, why do you think Amityville is a Hoax?

because everyone involved said it was?

the murders happened, I have seen the crime scene photos.

everything in the book and the movie? not so much.

It is my favorite of favorites of B-horror movie series though.

Such a shame..

Wouldnt a gate suffice?

There is a house here with the windows like that, it's for sale. I wanna buy it but I can't afford the $560,000 price tag :(

I drive by it nearly daily, it keeps looking at me :(

There is a house here with the windows like that, it's for sale. I wanna buy it but I can't afford the $560,000 price tag :(

I drive by it nearly daily, it keeps looking at me :(

I'd go halfers with you, but.. I'm 17.

Take pictures of it!

What if the entity is attached to the land though, and not the house?
or it might not be attached to anything. a free spirit travelling on a whim and a prayer... so to speak...

I'd go halfers with you, but.. I'm 17.

Take pictures of it!

I'm on the case! (give me a few days, don't get over that way on the weekend...)

oh and Wilgrove?

this might interest you.

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/facts.html

I'm on the case! (give me a few days, don't get over that way on the weekend...)

oh and Wilgrove?

this might interest you.

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/facts.html

Ehh, first off that website is run by Ric Osuna, who real purpose in involving himself in the Amityville case at all, is to make a quick buck. Ric Osuna associates himself with the DeFeo's (the DeFeo's being Ronald DeFeo Jr. and his wife) and actually tries to help Ronnie get a paroled hearing base on several premises, one of them being that Dawn DeFeo (the oldest daughter of the DeFeo family) was the actual trigger person, even though the Amityville police has verified that it was Ronnie that shot his family members. Also, Ric actually at one point posted the autopsy photos of the DeFeos.

So why would Ric Osuna associates himself with Ronnie and his wife? Mainly because back in August of 2000, Ric was actually pro-haunting and wanted to work with George on a pro-haunting book, however George wasn't happy with what he'd written and suggest that Ric take some writing classes. Apparently Ric took offense to this and decided to go Anti-haunting and talk to Ronnie about what 'really' happened that night when the DeFeos were murdered.

http://www.amityvillehorrortruth.com/reflipflopped.htm

So I don't really trust a website run by Ric, Ronald DeFeo Jr. and Tracey DeFeo (his wife).

ThanQ. I think it'd have worked well as a 'Twilight Zone' story.
but then I'm old school like that.

I'm old school like that too, so, yay! :cool:

Could've been a lot of things. Sadly, nobody ever had a chance to investigate it objectively, so we'll be left with the word of one group against the word of another.

That's pretty much my point. I wish someone had investigated it objectively... but don't we all? :)