NationStates Jolt Archive

For those of you who aren't familiar with the Ipperwash crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipperwash_Crisis), it essentially involved a standoff in 1995 between natives and police in a provincial park that was part of a land claim. During the tensions, a protester, Dudley George, was shot and killed by the Ontario Provincial Police.

An inquiry was finally completed last year, and the full report (http://www.ipperwashinquiry.ca/index.html) has been released to the public today.

Many notable recommendations have come out of the report (http://www.ipperwashinquiry.ca/report/vol_4/pdf/E_Vol_4_A_Investigations.pdf), but these two I think are most pertinent to the First Nations involved:

19) The federal government should immediately return the former army camp to the peoples of the Kettle and Stony Point First Nation and guarantee that it will assume complete responsibility for an appropriate environmental clean up of the site.

20) The federal government should issue a public apology with appropriate compensation to the Kettle and Stony Point First Nation for the failure of the federal government for more than 60 years to honour its promise to return the lands to the First Nation.


The rest of the recommendations involve many suggestions as to how to reform the policing and governmental involvement in future aboriginal claims, protests or otherwise. What do my fellow Canuks think of this?

how likely is the government to go along with these recommendations?

Aside from findings of systemic racism, governmental interference in policing, and egregious fiduciary breaches, what pisses me off the MOST about this whole thing is that THEY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR LAND BACK.

The Commission's recommendations aren't binding in any way. They might be persuasive in court, but this case has been IN the courts for six decades. Read the history of the claim...it's ironclad. And yet in this country, even an ironclad claim can be dragged through the courts indefinitely.

It fucking disgusts me.

I think I saw a movie about that guy getting shot. Terrible film, but I'm by-and-large sympathetic with the Indian cause. Hope they make some progress.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the Ipperwash crisis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipperwash_Crisis), it essentially involved a standoff in 1995 between natives and police in a provincial park that was part of a land claim. During the tensions, a protester, Dudley George, was shot and killed by the Ontario Provincial Police.

An inquiry was finally completed last year, and the full report (http://www.ipperwashinquiry.ca/index.html) has been released to the public today.

Many notable recommendations have come out of the report (http://www.ipperwashinquiry.ca/report/vol_4/pdf/E_Vol_4_A_Investigations.pdf), but these two I think are most pertinent to the First Nations involved:

19) The federal government should immediately return the former army camp to the peoples of the Kettle and Stony Point First Nation and guarantee that it will assume complete responsibility for an appropriate environmental clean up of the site.

20) The federal government should issue a public apology with appropriate compensation to the Kettle and Stony Point First Nation for the failure of the federal government for more than 60 years to honour its promise to return the lands to the First Nation.


The rest of the recommendations involve many suggestions as to how to reform the policing and governmental involvement in future aboriginal claims, protests or otherwise. What do my fellow Canuks think of this?


That it's about bloody time?

how likely is the government to go along with these recommendations?

The current government? Almost nil. UNLESS Harper sees this as an opportunity to help gloss over his failure to honour the Kelowna Accord (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelowna_Accord) and his subsequent axing of funding for aboriginal programs.

However, the report may be persuasive in court...if it's ever heard.

isnt there some way to bring it to an end? to have some court make a ruling so final that it forces the govt to act?

do any of the canadian major political parties favor returning the land to the first nations it belongs to?

isnt there some way to bring it to an end? to have some court make a ruling so final that it forces the govt to act?

do any of the canadian major political parties favor returning the land to the first nations it belongs to?
None of the major political parties support land claims, in general. It's a messy, expensive, and long process, and no matter how it's organised, it makes the government look (rightfully) bad.

There have been various cases brought in regards to other portions of Kettle and Stony Point lands that have failed. The nations are understandably concerned that despite all the evidence, the Supreme Court court rule unfavourably. They have been instead trying to pressure the government directly to honour its promises.

Probably the BEST way to approach this now, after Guerin v. the Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Guerin), and Delgamuukw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delgamuukw) would be to bring a case for breach of fiduciary duty, rather than make it a pure land claim issue. The evidentiary burden is different, and in this particular case, probably easier to prove than in a land claims case.

None of the major political parties support land claims, in general. It's a messy, expensive, and long process, and no matter how it's organised, it makes the government look (rightfully) bad.


I don't get it. There's maybe fifteen people living in the northern 90% of Canada. Can't they just give the indians a few thousand acres and be done with it? Ugh. Bureaucrats.

I predict nothing will change. The Harper administration doesn't have the balls to act on it. They pissed on the Kelowna Accord.

Why would you think Harper is going to do anything constructive? While enjoys eating the entire gamut of babies, aboriginal babies are his favourite.

I don't get it. There's maybe fifteen people living in the northern 90% of Canada. Can't they just give the indians a few thousand acres and be done with it? Ugh. Bureaucrats.

Hahahahaa...but you see...there's GOLD/DIAMONDS/OIL in them thar northern hills!

Why would you think Harper is going to do anything constructive? While enjoys eating the entire gamut of babies, aboriginal babies are his favourite.

He likes using treaties for serviettes. ;)

Why would you think Harper is going to do anything constructive? While enjoys eating the entire gamut of babies, aboriginal babies are his favourite.

Holy fucking hell.

Sigged. Thank you.

I predict nothing will change. The Harper administration doesn't have the balls to act on it. They pissed on the Kelowna Accord.

I beg to differ.

The Harper administration has the balls NOT to act on it.

Just like they had the balls to shit on the Kelowna Accord.

I beg to differ.

The Harper administration has the balls NOT to act on it.

Just like they had the balls to shit on the Kelowna Accord.

That's one way of looking at it...

Holy fucking hell.

Sigged. Thank you.

I always new that Stephen Harper baby eating jokes would pay off.

Where's Llewdor when I want to fight about land claims?

Aside from findings of systemic racism, governmental interference in policing, and egregious fiduciary breaches, what pisses me off the MOST about this whole thing is that THEY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR LAND BACK.

The Commission's recommendations aren't binding in any way. They might be persuasive in court, but this case has been IN the courts for six decades. Read the history of the claim...it's ironclad. And yet in this country, even an ironclad claim can be dragged through the courts indefinitely.

It fucking disgusts me.

Six decades...I thought they gave it back after WW2 then took it again? :confused:

I think I saw a movie about that guy getting shot. Terrible film, but I'm by-and-large sympathetic with the Indian cause. Hope they make some progress.

:mad: Indian cause or Native American cause......that really bugs me....

:mad: Indian cause or Native American cause......that really bugs me....

Um...in what way?

You're Canadian, you should know that here, we are First Nations, or Aboriginal if you must.

Six decades...I thought they gave it back after WW2 then took it again? :confused:

They said they would...and didn't. They insisted they needed it for military traning. Chretien was Minister of Indian Affairs at the time, and to his credit, put pressure on the government to give the lands back, but this was never done.

I'd just like to point out...many people in Canada, and the US, seem to think that land claim issues refer only to the original treaties, when in fact...the bulk of land claims in both our nations can be traced actions undertaken by our governments in the last century to the present.

I think I saw a movie about that guy getting shot. Terrible film, but I'm by-and-large sympathetic with the Indian cause. Hope they make some progress.

Native American *smack* I don't think they cook with curry.

Native American *smack* I don't think they cook with curry.

Oh NOW that comment by New Manvir makes sense. Duh.

Oh NOW that comment by New Manvir makes sense. Duh.

We're both Indian Indian. It annoys me to no end when people use the term Indian to refer to Native American peoples. I would use Aboriginal, but that somehow seems negative-sounding to me, and I wasn't aware they refered to themselves as the First Peoples.

Edit: Sorry, meant First Nations

We're both Indian Indian. It annoys me to no end when people use the term Indian to refer to Native American peoples. I would use Aboriginal, but that somehow seems negative-sounding to me, and I wasn't aware they refered to themselves as the First Peoples.

Edit: Sorry, meant First Nations

Can't you people just pick one? You're driving the rest of us mad! :D One day it's one thing the next it's something else! Is it too much to ask for a name to be decided upon so we know and we don't have to call you "Hey you... yeah you... no... that person next... yes you!". :p

Though I am not a Canadian, I would like to say I agree with what this report is recommending. I just wish we could do something like this here about our native population.

*Glares at Andrew Jackson's grave*

Reactions to the report so far:

The Star (http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/220160)
Canadians cannot afford to ignore the lessons of Ipperwash.

Indeed, Linden's report should serve as a cautionary tale as land claim disputes simmer in Caledonia, Deseronto and elsewhere. It will take on added poignancy when natives across the country stage a day of action on June 29 to protest the glacial pace of land claim talks, appalling native poverty rates and Prime Minister Stephen Harper's decision to kill the 2005 Kelowna Accord.

Yesterday, Premier Dalton McGuinty rightly apologized to Dudley George's family on behalf of the government. And Aboriginal Affairs Minister David Ramsay said he has convened a "response team" to consider Linden's recommendations.


From CTV (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070530/ipperwash_mainstory_070531/20070531?hub=CTVNewsAt11):
Linden also targeted the federal government saying they bear responsibility because they allowed Aboriginal land claims "to fester for decades."

He called for a Treaty Commission of Ontario to be established to help settle land claims.

Further, Linden said that the Canadian public needs to also become more educated about the land claim issues.

"The Aboriginal occupation at Caledonia proves that Ipperwash is not an isolated event.

From Canada.com (http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=cb518266-632f-4790-8991-1c6f7f0e0975):

“The flashpoints for aboriginal protest and occupations are very likely as intense today as they were at the time of Ipperwash,” Commissioner Sidney Linden said after releasing his four-volume report into the slaying of Dudley George on Sept. 6, 1995.

“No one can predict where protests and occupations will occur, but the fundamental conditions and catalysts sparking such protests continue to exist in Ontario, more than a decade after Ipperwash."

“If the governments of Ontario and Canada want to avoid future confrontations they will have to deal with land and treaty claims effectively and fairly.”

This is long overdue, but good to see. Unfortunately, adding yet another layer of bureaucracy to 'speed things up' is slightly ironic. But there has to be a better system to address land claim issues other than the Federal government sitting on their hands, and provincial governments passing the buck. At least the onus is finally officially on the Feds to turn over the land...

Perhaps the most illuminating moment was Mike Harris' comments about how absolved he now is of all the 'rediculous accusations'. Absolved my ass... It's attitudes like his that continue to perpetuate and aggravate the simmering land-claim process. More education on the issue amongst the general public is sorely needed, and leaders in high places, such as Mike Harris, don't help matters.

"Get the fucking Indians out of the park." Direct Harris quote.

He was absolved ONLY of not ORDERING the shooting.

Everything else was affirmed in the report.

"Get the fucking Indians out of the park." Direct Harris quote.

He was absolved ONLY of not ORDERING the shooting.

Everything else was affirmed in the report.

Yeah, he may not have ordered 'shoot to kill', but he basically told them to 'make it happen'. Didn't want the messy protest ruining his political career... I'm not remotely surprised that there was no apology from him at all.

Yeah, he may not have ordered 'shoot to kill', but he basically told them to 'make it happen'. Didn't want the messy protest ruining his political career... I'm not remotely surprised that there was no apology from him at all.
Nor am I.

What WOULD shock me is if the land actually changed hands any time in the next ten years.