NationStates Jolt Archive

Damn, this (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/05/31/rhino.death.ap/index.html)makes me sad. The white rhino is almost extinct. Why don't we clone them to make more? I'd hate to look back on my life 60 yrs from now and say "Oh the white rhino, I remember when they were still alive"

Here is the story in full:

SAN DIEGO, California (AP) -- A rare northern white rhinoceros died Wednesday at the San Diego Zoo, dwindling the critically endangered species' population to as few as 13 worldwide, zoo officials said.

Nadi was one of three northern white rhinos at the zoo's Wild Animal Park. No cause of death was given, but the female rhino had shown signs of old age, the zoo said in a statement.

Nadi, believed to be more than 40 years old, was brought from Africa in 1972 and was part of a group maintained at the Dvur Kralove Zoo in the Czech Republic.

She and another female rhino named Nola came to the Wild Animal Park in San Diego in 1989 as part of an effort to breed the species. (Watch file footage of Nadi at the San Diego Zoo Video)

Although both females were late in life, zoo officials had hoped the presence of a male rhino and the large park habitat would help breeding. No calves were produced.

Northern white rhinos are considered critically endangered. Along with the two remaining at the Wild Animal Park, there are six at a zoo in the Czech Republic and as few as five believed to be roaming in the African wild, the zoo said.

What other animals do you think we will see go extinct in our lifetimes?

Is 13 enough for the species to bounce back without too much inbreeding?

Why don't we clone them to make more?

Because it's futile.

What other animals do you think we will see go extinct in our lifetimes?

Oh, tonnes more. Tigers, orang-outangs, pandas, all rhinos... seems people just either don't care or they don't "believe" in environmentalism so like to lie to themselves about things like global warming, habitat destruction, pollution and so on. Remember, the economy is more important than survival.

How do they taste?

Is 13 enough for the species to bounce back without too much inbreeding?

Well, Adam and Eve's family was inbreed and look how well humanity has turned out!

Why don't we clone them to make more?

I think that's a little more complicated than just zapping them with a clone gun.

I think that's a little more complicated than just zapping them with a clone gun.

We should invest in a clone gun then

but I need moar Viagra!

-cough- I need reading comprehension..... The NORTHERN white rhino...still sad all the same though.

Oh, tonnes more. Tigers, orang-outangs, pandas, all rhinos... seems people just either don't care or they don't "believe" in environmentalism so like to lie to themselves about things like global warming, habitat destruction, pollution and so on. Remember, the economy is more important than survival.

I think I actually agree with you there...


*takes shower*

Damn, this (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/05/31/rhino.death.ap/index.html)makes me sad. The white rhino is almost extinct. Why don't we clone them to make more? I'd hate to look back on my life 60 yrs from now and say "Oh the white rhino, I remember when they were still alive"

Here is the story in full:



What other animals do you think we will see go extinct in our lifetimes?
uhh...obvious solution, RHINO VIAGRA!!

Why should I care about the white rhino?

What if only one gender is left?

Why don't we clone them to make more?

Cloning will never be an answer to animal extinction. Chiefly, because it neglects to address the following issues:

1) Loss of the creature's natural habitat
2) Loss of the creature's genetic diversity

The former of which is the #1 cause of extinction worldwide, and both of which you need for any animal to continue to survive and adapt.

What if only one gender is left?

Then our plan is working.

Why should I care about the white rhino?

Because, if you are smart.. you will develop a very realistic white paint, good for coating the hides of normal non-caucasian rhinos, and when you dramatically 'save the species from extinction', you will be hailed as a hero.

Then our plan is working.

:eek:

Wait.. our.. as in.. Not me.

Then our plan is working.

It's only a matter of time now...

It's only a matter of time now...

You don't understand how dire the situation is.

He and his liberal 'friends' have nearly forced the white rhino into a homosexual state by killing off all the females..

What species is next? Hetero Sapiens?

Protect yer wimmen!

Why should I care about the white rhino?

cause its white and thus owns a large amount of world government things (plus without white rhinos who will keep the black rhinos down!?)

Why should I care about the white rhino?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coextinction

Damn, this (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/05/31/rhino.death.ap/index.html)makes me sad. The white rhino is almost extinct. Why don't we clone them to make more? I'd hate to look back on my life 60 yrs from now and say "Oh the white rhino, I remember when they were still alive"

Here is the story in full:



What other animals do you think we will see go extinct in our lifetimes?

Javan rhinos, intelligent Americans, metalheads, the list goes on.

metalheads

Alas, all that headbanging...they never saw it coming...I blame Headbanger's Ball for this

Alas, all that headbanging...they never saw it coming...I blame Headbangers ball for this

Actually, note the name. They have adapted to the pounding of the head.

They could not adapt to country.

What if only one gender is left?

well then the white Rhino is royally f*cked

cause its white and thus owns a large amount of world government things (plus without white rhinos who will keep the black rhinos down!?)

the white rhinos shouldn't worry about the black rhinos, they should be worried about the rising influence of rhinos in China...and all the mexican rhinos coming into..uhh...rhinomerica...

well then the white Rhino is royally f*cked

Or more specifically, will never be f****ed again.

Or more specifically, will never be f****ed again.

No, it will. Fass has attended to that.

How much to have it stuffed and put on my wall?


Also, thirteen left. It's bad luck. We'd better kill another one.

Or more specifically, will never be f****ed again.

Which aside from the extinction part...is the worst part about this...

The best part about this however in order to save themselves...they must have sex... :) ... S'all good

How much to have it stuffed and put on my wall?


Also, thirteen left. It's bad luck. We'd better kill another one.

NO.
That is exactly why it is bad luck.

It is bad luck because it is thirteen because people will think it is bad luck and kill another to make it twelve. Meanwhile, the killing is the bad luck that will happen.

Paradigm shift..*whoosh*

wiki sez...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rhinoceros#Population

For most of the 20th century the continental black rhino was the most numerous of all rhino species. Around 1900 there were probably several hundred thousand[3] living in Africa. During the later half of the 20th century their number severely reduced from an estimated 70,000[4] in the late 1960s to only 10,000 to 15,000 in 1981. In the early 1990s the number dipped below 2500, and in 1995 it was reported that only 2,410 black rhinos remained. According to the International Rhino Foundation, the total African population has since then slightly recovered to 3,610 by 2003.[5] According to a July 2006 report by the World Conservation Union, a recent survey of the West African Black Rhino, which once ranged across the savannahs of western Africa but had dropped to just 10, concluded the subspecies to be extinct. [6] The northern white is soon to join the western black rhino on the extinction list as its last noted numbers were as few as 4. The only rhino that has recovered somewhat from the brink of extinction is the southern white whose numbers now are estimated around 14,500, up from only 50 a century ago.[7] The Black Rhinoceros has been pushed to the brink of extinction by illegal poaching for their horn and by loss of habitat. The horn is used in Asia in traditional medicine even though it has been proven to have no medicinal value. It is used in the Middle East to make ornately carved handles for ceremonial daggers called jamiyas. Demand for these exploded in the 1970s causing the Black Rhinoceros population to decline 96% between 1970 and 1992.

what if we bred the white and black rhino....what would you get?

Or more specifically, will never be f****ed again.

apparently you've never heard of lesbian rhinos

wiki sez...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rhinoceros#Population



what if we bred the white and black rhino....what would you get?

*shock* Unthinkable!

Basically, a super-extinct rhino.

*shock* Unthinkable!

Basically, a super-extinct rhino.

Wouldn't you get a gray rhino?

Wouldn't you get a gray rhino?

Yes. A single "gray" bastard rhino. What a waste of sperm.

Is 13 enough for the species to bounce back without too much inbreeding?

No.

what if we bred the white and black rhino....what would you get?
Nothing. Different genera.

No.

*high pitched wail*

All is lost!

*falls to knees, tears out hair, and rends clothing*

It kinda makes me a little bit upset. I think that it is our (mans) fault. We need to take better care of things, i.e. the environment, and we should take better care of animals.

*high pitched wail*

All is lost!

*falls to knees, tears out hair, and rends clothing*

It's possible to bounce back from 13, but the gene pool won't be the best. The cheetah went through a bottleneck smaller than that, and is still hanging on, albeit barely.

It's possible to bounce back from 13, but the gene pool won't be the best. The cheetah went through a bottleneck smaller than that, and is still hanging on, albeit barely.

Wow. I was not even aware of that. Cheetah huh. crazy

The Human...give it time...
Surely it has occured to at least one other person by now the absurdity of stating that humans (ie, us) will go instinct before we die.
No, it will. Fass has attended to that.
He's volunteered to service the surviving rhinos? Didn't anybody learn anything from Zoo!?

Surely it has occured to at least one other person by now the absurdity of stating that humans (ie, us) will go instinct before we die.


Yes it was non-sensical...

Hopefully the DNA is baing saved for later re-animation. I hear it's the next big craze.

Well, Adam and Eve's family was inbreed and look how well humanity has turned out!

Go soak your head.

It's actually only an already troubled subspecies that's dying...not the entire species of White rhnocerous. It's range has been traditionally smaller, as has the population.

So, yes, the Northern Subspecies is dying off, but the Southern Subspecies has over 10,000 individuals left.

It's actually only an already troubled subspecies that's dying...not the entire species of White rhnocerous. It's range has been traditionally smaller, as has the population.

So, yes, the Northern Subspecies is dying off, but the Southern Subspecies has over 10,000 individuals left.

And there was much rejoicing!

*listens*

rejoice!

According to Wikipedia all current living European Bison are descended from 12. So I guess it's possible for the numbers to come back.

Damn, this (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/05/31/rhino.death.ap/index.html)makes me sad. The white rhino is almost extinct. Why don't we clone them to make more? I'd hate to look back on my life 60 yrs from now and say "Oh the white rhino, I remember when they were still alive"

Here is the story in full:



What other animals do you think we will see go extinct in our lifetimes?

Whichever species of whales the Japanese are currently "researching"

According to Wikipedia all current living European Bison are descended from 12. So I guess it's possible for the numbers to come back.



Whichever species of whales the Japanese are currently "researching"

The Japanese Whale Research Center:

"Mmm... this whale soup is good."

"Try the whale-kabobs!"

"The whale burger is the best, though."

*Unanimous agreement*

A travesty really... But according to ex-secretary of defense donald rumsfeld "I'd kill of an entire species of animal to save one human"

Because, if you are smart.. you will develop a very realistic white paint, good for coating the hides of normal non-caucasian rhinos, and when you dramatically 'save the species from extinction', you will be hailed as a hero.

Northern white rhinos aren't white; they're dark grey. As I recall, the name "white rhino" is a mistranslation of the Africaans word "weit" (wide), referring to the rhino's wide mouth.

As for this story - it's depressing, but it's barely news. It's damn near impossible to get most large mammal species to breed in captivity, and poachers make it damn near impossible to keep the animals alive in the wild. The northern white rhino has been pretty much doomed for some time now, simply because people are jackasses. The worst part of it is the reason why these particular animals have been driven to imminent extinction: costume jewelry. The rhino's horns are used in stupid, tacky costume jewelry, particularly in Yemen. Mankind has destroyed an entire species to make trinkets. Bleh.

Time for some cloning! We could cloning the existing 13 and try to breed them up in another species of Rhino.

How do they taste?

If they do taste good and someone legalizes eating them I'm sure we'll see ranches packed with thousands of white rhinos in a few short decades. I think that's the answer to saving endangered species. Farm them for food or domesticate them as pets. Cows and housecats aren't going extinct any time soon.

Northern white rhinos aren't white; they're dark grey. As I recall, the name "white rhino" is a mistranslation of the Africaans word "weit" (wide), referring to the rhino's wide mouth.

As for this story - it's depressing, but it's barely news. It's damn near impossible to get most large mammal species to breed in captivity, and poachers make it damn near impossible to keep the animals alive in the wild. The northern white rhino has been pretty much doomed for some time now, simply because people are jackasses. The worst part of it is the reason why these particular animals have been driven to imminent extinction: costume jewelry. The rhino's horns are used in stupid, tacky costume jewelry, particularly in Yemen. Mankind has destroyed an entire species to make trinkets. Bleh.

And as the numbers of a species drops their value goes up, and the numbers drop faster.

Viagra!

Not getting the horn is seldom experienced by the Rhino.

Re: next for the 'EXTINCT' stamp.

Tigers, orang-outangs, pandas, all rhinos... seems people just either don't care or they don't "believe" in environmentalism so like to lie to themselves about things like global warming, habitat destruction, pollution and so on. Remember, the economy is more important than survival.

IIRC there are at least twice as many Tigers being kept as pets in the US alone as there are living in the wild world-wide. Make of that what you will.

what if we bred the white and black rhino....what would you get?

An zebrhino.

An zebrhino.

OK now you're just making stuff up...

I read somewhere that to create a gene pool diverse enough for long term survival you need at least 40 breeding pairs.

I think that was referring to humans colonising other planets though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coextinction

So the real issue is that several species of parasite may go extinct as well?

That's actually a tad misleading: the White Rhino population is considered secure. Only the NORTHERN subspecies is endangered.

I read somewhere that to create a gene pool diverse enough for long term survival you need at least 40 breeding pairs.

I think that was referring to humans colonising other planets though

The number I heard was one thousand, same context.

Interestingly (and off-topicly) the overwhelming majority of human genetic diversity is found throughout Africa. People living in all other places are descended from the subgroup in the northeast that migrated outward.

Ah, here we go:

From http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/006/T0743E/T0743E02.htm
A commonly quoted figure is a minimum of 50 breeding adult individuals for short-term maintenance of fitness in the population, and 500 to sustain long-term genetic adaptability to change (FAO 1989a). A figure of 1 000 individuals has been suggested as desirable to maintain “evolutionary potential”, while at the other extreme it has been estimated that a genetically effective size of less than 50 may be adequate for several generations and that nearly all the genetic variability of a population can be conserved temporarily in only a few breeding individuals (Wilcox 1990).

That's actually a tad misleading: the White Rhino population is considered secure. Only the NORTHERN subspecies is endangered.

Still. If Scottish people became extinct for any reason (nuclear explosion at Faslane?), would it still be okay because there's still a lot of white people around?

Still. If Scottish people became extinct for any reason (nuclear explosion at Faslane?), would it still be okay because there's still a lot of white people around?

Depends...Do we get to keep Sean Connery?

Still. If Scottish people became extinct for any reason (nuclear explosion at Faslane?), would it still be okay because there's still a lot of white people around?

According to most NSers, it'd be ok if white people went out entirely because there's still plenty of blacks and Asians around.

According to most NSers, it'd be ok if white people went out entirely because there's still plenty of blacks and Asians around.

White people can't go extinct because there are no white people. There are humans with less pigmentation in their skin.

What if only one gender is left?

They'll adapt.

Like them critters here: zOMG (http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/treasure_fossil/Treasures/Unisexual_Whiptail_Lizards/lizards.html?50)

Is 13 enough for the species to bounce back without too much inbreeding?

No. It would be like the Cheetah (founder effect): Survives but has several diseases that can spread throughout an entire population.

Look at the amish. They came from a larger stock but inbreeding still ocurred. They still survive but there is a couple of major problem with them (including a blood disorder).

Given time you could selective breed the new stock to remove those traits but that would take a long time.

No. It would be like the Cheetah (founder effect): Survives but has several diseases that can spread throughout an entire population.

Look at the amish. They came from a larger stock but inbreeding still ocurred. They still survive but there is a couple of major problem with them (including a blood disorder).

Given time you could selective breed the new stock to remove those traits but that would take a long time.
It'll be one hell of a founder effect from 13 animals.

A travesty really... But according to ex-secretary of defense donald rumsfeld "I'd kill of an entire species of animal to save one human"

He could have killed Rumsfeldis Atosseryes and save a lot of humans.

It's actually only an already troubled subspecies that's dying...not the entire species of White rhnocerous. It's range has been traditionally smaller, as has the population.

So, yes, the Northern Subspecies is dying off, but the Southern Subspecies has over 10,000 individuals left.

Oh, ok. Why can't they intermix some of the southern and northern stock (if they are the same species it should be too bad)?

It'll be one hell of a founder effect from 13 animals.

Yeah, it probably wouldn't be a viable breeding population without many, many rhino generations worth of selective breeding and genetic comparisons.

That and you'd need a massive population to be able to get some new variation to try to breed back in.

Because, if you are smart.. you will develop a very realistic white paint, good for coating the hides of normal non-caucasian rhinos, and when you dramatically 'save the species from extinction', you will be hailed as a hero.

Wait it is from the european subcontinent?

They'll adapt.

Like them critters here: zOMG (http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/treasure_fossil/Treasures/Unisexual_Whiptail_Lizards/lizards.html?50)
Wait, does the stage where a population composed exclusively of one sex learns to reproduce come before or after they learn to open doors and start hunting in packs?

How do they taste?

If they tasted better than cow there'd be so many white rhinos in the US alone that they'd contribute to global warming.

White people can't go extinct because there are no white people. There are humans with less pigmentation in their skin.

So what you're saying is, White people.


Glad we cleared that up.

Well, Adam and Eve's family was inbreed and look how well humanity has turned out!

If that was meant to be an encouragement for inbreeding, it succeeded in doing the opposite... I wouldn't recommend anything the human species has done, to any other species on the planet. :p

Good riddance I say. Those white rhinos came over here, stealin' our jobs, our women and our self respect and what did we get out of it? Nothing, that's what.

Is 13 enough for the species to bounce back without too much inbreeding?

small point the white rhino is no where near extinction. One of the sub-species in this case the northern white rhino, will become extinct. But there are around 12.000 southern white rhinos

small point the white rhino is no where near extinction. One of the sub-species in this case the northern white rhino, will become extinct. But there are around 12.000 southern white rhinosWhat a huge number :rolleyes:

What a huge number :rolleyes:

considering that at the turn of the 20th century there were only about 20 left in the wild. I think its quite a respectabe number. And the fact that its no longer on the endangered list, means the authorities seem to agree.

Alas, all that headbanging...they never saw it coming...I blame Headbanger's Ball for this

Nah. It does make your neck hurt a little, but it subsides.

And thus, the evolutionary trend away from over-specialization continues.

Well, Adam and Eve's family was inbreed and look how well humanity has turned out!

Yes indeed, look how well humanity has turned out. :rolleyes:I'll file this one as damned by faint praise.

This story has bummed me out all weekend.

Yes indeed, look how well humanity has turned out. :rolleyes:I'll file this one as damned by faint praise.
Misanthropy makes you look cool!
This story has bummed me out all weekend.
Why?

if there is only one gender maybe they will evolve..like those fish that can change genders..or i remember reading somewhere about transgender lizards t or something like that...I dont remember exactly..