NationStates Jolt Archive

New French President Nicolas Sarkozy made immigration a central issue of his campaign. Now, his new minister for immigration and national identity says its time to start paying immigrants to leave the country.

France is home to over 5 million immigrants -- and the new conservative-led government doesn't plan on making things any more comfortable for them. While the new regime in Paris is determined to curb illegal immigration, it is also looking to encourage legal migrants to reconsider their decision to stay in France -- by paying them to go back home.

New immigration minister, Brice Hortefeux, confirmed on Wednesday that the government is planning to offer incentives to more immigrants to return home voluntarily. "We must increase this measure to help voluntary return. I am very clearly committed to doing that," Hortefeux said in an interview with RFI radio.

Under the scheme, Paris will provide each family with a nest egg of €6,000 ($8,000) for when they go back to their country of origin. A similar scheme, which was introduced in 2005 and 2006, was taken up by around 3,000 families.
Hortefeux, who heads up the new "super-ministery" of immigration, integration, national identity and co-development, said he wants to pursue a "firm but humane" immigration policy.

The new ministry was a central pledge in Nicolas Sarkozy's election campaign, who had warned that France was exasperated by "uncontrolled immigration." He was accused by the left of playing on public fears of immigration during his campaign, in an attempt to appeal to the supporters of the far-right National Front. In the end, Sarkozy won comfortably with 53 percent, and Hortefeux says this shows that the French people have clearly decided on what immigration policy they want. He also pointed to an opinon poll in the Le Figaro newspaper, which found that three in four people in France approved of the ministry.

Since he was appointed by the new president last Friday, Hortefeux has insisted that "co-development" will be an important plank of French immigration policy. He argued that the system of voluntary return can be seen as a means for investment in developing countries. He said that the method of transferring funds via returning immigrants to their country of origin was a better policy than providing aid for development.

Hortefeux is also talking tough when it comes to dealing with illegal immigration, insisting that there are no plans for a mass legalization of the estimated 200,000 to 400,000 illegals in France.


The new minister voiced concern that the majority of legal immigration into France was that of existing immigrants bringing in relatives, while only a small proportion were granted visas due to their professional skills.

"To be integrated, you need language skills and a professional activity," he told RFI, and said he is considering introducing a language test to prospective immigrants.

France is home to an estimated 1.5 million immigrants from mostly Muslim North Africa and 500,000 from sub-Saharan Africa, according to the 2004 census.

Asked on RFI about how the notion "national identity," fits into the new ministry -- the term has been fiercely criticized by the French left -- Hortefeux said: "This should not be understood as something menacing, but on the contrary, it is initiative with the aim of bringing coherence."

Well, I'm extremely pleased to see France going about this the right way. I find that Sarkozy's administration really knows what it's facing here, and the French people realize it as well, as there is high support for this ministry that is behind these actions.

I hope other European nations choose this route before it's too late, and things get so bad that a right wing extremist is elected. This needs to be done in a moderate, civilized fashion...and I can't see things staying that way for long in Europe. We'll see if I'm right in about 10-15 years.
Der Spiegel/Politik/Ausland (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,484716,00.html)

This is old news on two levels, the first being that there was already a thread on this and the other in that the underlying concept that the new french president is indeed a useless fuck has been bopping around quite a while.

Another way to avoid extremists getting into power is having more immigrants that don't want those kind of extremits, which causes a balance of power.

The BNP (Bloody Nasty People, the only time I'll agree with the Sun) want to do the same thing in the UK. I don't think any more of it when it comes in the guise of the UMP than the BNP, thank you very much.

Another way to avoid extremists getting into power is having more immigrants that don't want those kind of extremits, which causes a balance of power.
.....Are you serious? That just makes things worse. The whole reason that extremists will get into power will be to ride the negative impacts that mass immigration/multicutluralism brings all the way into the White House...er...or the equvialent for each respective country.
This is old news on two levels, the first being that there was already a thread on this and the other in that the underlying concept that the new french president is indeed a useless fuck has been bopping around quite a while.
Fortunatly, you're wrong as he got elected by the French people and there is 75% support for the ministry that is doing this. Nice try, tool.

The BNP (Bloody Nasty People, the only time I'll agree with the Sun) want to do the same thing in the UK. I don't think any more of it when it comes in the guise of the UMP than the BNP, thank you very much.
Why do you think it's wrong. It's extremely humane and if the French don't want mass uncontrolled immigration in their nation, why should they have to deal with it?

"So where do we go then?"

"Well, if we go to France they'll PAY us to go home again! Brilliant eh?"

"Hah, what a bunch of idiots! Lets go and collect our check!"

Watch the increased migration to France happen :rolleyes:

It's not a step in the right direction, more of a sideways direction.

Why do you think it's wrong. It's extremely humane and if the French don't want mass uncontrolled immigration in their nation, why should they have to deal with it?
If you don't want "mass uncontrolled immigration", toughen up existing immigration laws, and step up deporting illegal immigrants. This measure is completely unnecessary.

"So where do we go then?"

"Well, if we go to France they'll PAY us to go home again! Brilliant eh?"

"Hah, what a bunch of idiots! Lets go and collect our check!"

Watch the increased migration to France happen :rolleyes:
Could be that this act will be accompanied with limited of immigration, and restriction of immigration in general.

If you don't want "mass uncontrolled immigration", toughen up existing immigration laws, and step up deporting illegal immigrants. This measure is completely unnecessary.
But that wouldn't get rid of the massive uncontrolled immigration France has suffered up until when these new strategieis get implemented.

There is ALREADY a problem in France, and making policies towards the future will help it form getting worse, but will not fix what is currently in France. Understand?

But that wouldn't get rid of the massive uncontrolled immigration France has suffered up until when these new strategieis get implemented.
And? If people have come to live in France legally, they have the right to remain as French citizens without being 'persuaded' that their legally being in France is somehow wrong.

There is ALREADY a problem in France, and making policies towards the future will help it form getting worse, but will not fix what is currently in France. Understand?
What kind of a 'problem' do you think France is in then?

The Germans have done the exact same thing in the past.

am I the only one who is pondering the fate of the French foreign legion here?

"yeah we are glad you gave your best years in the service of France...now erm could you please GTFO immigrant scum" :rolleyes::p

If immigrants leave the country the economy will find itself flat on its ass.

What kind of a 'problem' do you think France is in then?
It's not what I think...it's what everyone knows. France has a huge problem with uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, very unsuccesful multiculturalism, and a very very non-integrated at times seemingly revolutionary immigrant underclass.

It's not what I think...it's what everyone knows. France has a huge problem with uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, very unsuccesful multiculturalism,.

And when did France adopt "multiculturalism"?


a very very non-integrated at times seemingly revolutionary immigrant underclass.,.


No, those are just French farmers.

It's not what I think...it's what everyone knows. France has a huge problem with uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, very unsuccesful multiculturalism, and a very very non-integrated at times seemingly revolutionary immigrant underclass.

You seem like quite the expert.

Uncontrolled legal immigration ?
Please, the whole point of legal immigration is that it is controlled.

It is true that illegal immigration is a problem. But giving hardworking, integrated LEGAL immigrants incentive to leave is just profoundly stupid.

This won't work, because the assertion that France has been a country of mass migration in recent years is wrong - The vast majority of France's immigrants have been there for thirty years or more, they migrated during the boom years after the war until the 70s. These people probably don't have much knowledge of their home countries and so won't go back for $6,000. I sure as hell know my mother wouldn't go back to Sri Lanka for that much.

I really think this is just a case of trying to take the easy way out. France really needs to tackle the immense structural problems that cause it's huge level of unemployment, which hinders integration, and also the problem of the Banlieues. These migrants have not been integrated into French society,and that is what really needs sorting out.

I think we Europeans forget what we did to the countries that migrants come from. Part of their utter lack of development can bet attributed to colonial mismanagement - Is it any wonder that many French immigrans are from Algeria?

If this is what's coming out of France now...

Je suis Napo... Sarkozy! Make him the dictator of Europe! He's the smart one!

Fantastic poll options I may add.

Fantastic poll options I may add.

Indeed, If it had (I generally treat you as a contemptible racist).. we'd all be happy.

It's not what I think...it's what everyone knows. France has a huge problem with uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, very unsuccesful multiculturalism,
In other words, you don't like them because they're ebil immigrants.

and a very very non-integrated at times seemingly revolutionary immigrant underclass.
I'd say there are plenty of British born people in our inner cities who aren't integrated with society.

Britain has been fairly good in terms of integration, give the European record. I think the fast-rising number of mixed race people in the country is testament to that.

However, when it comes to integration, America seems to outperform all.

However, when it comes to integration, America seems to outperform all.

though every couple decades the same old nativist arguments are trotted out, which is strange given the fact that they are never right about anything

If immigrants leave the country the economy will find itself flat on its ass.

Not really. France has a significant unemployment problem with recent immigrants, and unlike the US, has no history of using them for low-paying labour. Removing a portion of their immigrant population might actually help their economy, provided they don't go too far.

though every couple decades the same old nativist arguments are trotted out, which is strange given the fact that they are never right about anything

Well, it's the same for most countries, but in Europe people tend to actually listen to them. Actually, in the UK they gather less support because this country owes more of it's history over the last few centuries to immigration than most of the rest of Europe.

You seem like quite the expert.
I am.
Uncontrolled legal immigration ?
Please, the whole point of legal immigration is that it is controlled.
Yes, theoretically, but if the government is not controlling the legal immigration, and is not fufilling its duty to the country, then it can be uncontrolled yet legal immigration. If the government is letting in an insane amount of immigrants, that obviously doesnt work for the country, and upsets the people, then the government is NOT controlling legal immigration.

Government can act wrongly, you know.

What the Europeans need to realize is that this 'problem' can help them counter another 'problem.'

European nations are very worried about their low birthrates - it's in all but one country not at population replacement levels. At the same time, there are literal boatloads of people in the 3rd world who desperately want to come to First World Countries. I see a marriage of convienience.

What the European countries need is to find a way to impart a First World, liberaldemocratic attitude on these new arrivals. That's the rub. But I figure the immigration can and will be a good thing.

What the Europeans need to realize is that this 'problem' can help them counter another 'problem.'

European nations are very worried about their low birthrates - it's in all but one country not at population replacement levels. At the same time, there are literal boatloads of people in the 3rd world who desperately want to come to First World Countries. I see a marriage of convienience.

What the European countries need is to find a way to impart a First World, liberaldemocratic attitude on these new arrivals. That's the rub. But I figure the immigration can and will be a good thing.
If the Germans (as an example I'm using them as their birthrate is terrible) are dying out and their population is getting lower, I should think they'd hardly want to speed up the process of Germany not being German by importing MORE people who contribute to the decline of German-ness of Germany. If anything, emphasis needs to be placed on Germans (and other Europeans...not immigrants) having more children and bigger families.

Yes, theoretically, but if the government is not controlling the legal immigration, and is not fufilling its duty to the country, then it can be uncontrolled yet legal immigration. If the government is letting in an insane amount of immigrants, that obviously doesnt work for the country, and upsets the people, then the government is NOT controlling legal immigration.

Well that whole point is moot when referring to France anyway as immigration has been controlled since the 1970s and controlled pretty strictly since the late 80s.

If the Germans (as an example I'm using them as their birthrate is terrible) are dying out and their population is getting lower, I should think they'd hardly want to speed up the process of Germany not being German by importing MORE people who contribute to the decline of German-ness of Germany. If anything, emphasis needs to be placed on Germans (and other Europeans...not immigrants) having more children and bigger families.

The idea is not preservation of the culture in some sort of stasis, but survival of the nation and the economy. If they can convince the North Africans, or Sub-saharan Africans, or East Asians to adopt a fundamentally Liberaldemocratic outlook and contribute positively to society, what does the name of the God they worship, the language they speak or the food they eat matter?

I like this Nick guy the French have. He's ballsy.

European nations are very worried about their low birthrates

We are?

Well we ought to be.

European nations are very worried about their low birthrates - it's in all but one country not at population replacement levels. At the same time, there are literal boatloads of people in the 3rd world who desperately want to come to First World Countries. I see a marriage of convienience.

I see a bloody divorce.

People in Europe who are so worried about declining population are concerned because it's the birth rates among true Europeans, aka White Germans/French/Etc. The possibility of increasing the amount of unwashed immigrants with dark skin, different religion and culture is what sets them off into BNP and neonazi paranoia.

Yeah, it would make sense if they cared about their nation-states.

But mostly they care about their unspoken but palpable need for ... purity...

Well I meant that, unless birthrates rise, declining populations and ageing will mean a big shift in economic and social trends. We won't allow in enough migrants to make good the gap, so either we do that or have more babies.

We are?

I don't mean to speak for all Europeans, or for your man on the street, but as to the nations themselves (if I can trust my articles from the BBC) they are quite concerned about the implications of low birthrates. Especially on the economy.

I am..

Indeed you are.

I am still awaiting your answer as to when "multiculturalism" became a policy in France.

I see my point re the tendency of the French to riot flew over your head. Perhaps If I had aimed at your ass your brain might have had a better chance of copping on to it......

Hah, this is just a ploy by right wingers in an attempt to remove all the north African Muslims. What a sick pathetic scumbag. You think you can buy people like that? I hope this causes France to fall apart.

This is a step in the right direction, France is not for everyone, and it is fair to offer people compensation if they will leave.

It won't do anything.