NationStates Jolt Archive

Charlotte, NC, 05.30.2007
CMS Assistant Principal suspended while investigation continues

The Assistant Principal at Randolph Middle School in Charlotte is still on suspension.

Police and CMS are continuing to investigate reports that she slapped a student. They say the student provoked her by spitting in her face.

The student has been disciplined and investigators are looking into how to treat the Assistant Principal.
Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?

Now I'm not saying that the student is innocence, of course the student is guilty as well, but as the old saying goes, two wrong does not make a right. She shouldn't have spit in the Asst. Principal face, but the Asst. Principal should've just suspended her and have the school police officer escort her off school property.

I'd like to see the statute that says it's a felony for an adult to slap a minor. Half the parents in the state would be in prison. :p

Anyway, I agree - the principal should be suspended a couple weeks.

What happened to the kid? A suspension? I don't blame the woman for slapping the punk, I would have decked him.

I'd like to see the statute that says it's a felony for an adult to slap a minor. Half the parents in the state would be in prison. :p

Anyway, I agree - the principal should be suspended a couple weeks.

I think the statue allows physical punishment, like spanking, not blantent abuse.

What happened to the kid? A suspension? I don't blame the woman for slapping the punk, I would have decked him.

The article is short on detail to say the least, but you could be right.

An assistant principle has a million ways they could punish a kid who spit on them. If they have to resort to slapping, maybe education isn't the proper line of work for them. After all, shouldn't an educator have intelligence and problem solving skills?

An assistant principle has a million ways they could punish a kid who spit on them. If they have to resort to slapping, maybe education isn't the proper line of work for them. After all, shouldn't an educator have intelligence and problem solving skills?

Yes, and when I was studying to be a teacher, I was taught those skills. I was taught different ways to correct a child's behavior, but I was never taught to use physical force.

It's one of those catches for me. Rats. Obviously you can't allow people to just slap jr. high kids, especially in an authority position like that, so I can't really excuse that. But at the same time it's likely that the kid knew that he couldn't be slapped or the like and emboldened him to do what he did. What is he facing, suspension? Whatever. Few days out of school. And arrogance like that can be frustrating when you know that there is only so much you can do. At best this kid now knows that just because people really can't do something doesn't mean they won't. It doesn't mean that she should have, but if there was a way to pull out a silver lining, I guess that's it.

It's one of those catches for me. Rats. Obviously you can't allow people to just slap jr. high kids, especially in an authority position like that, so I can't really excuse that. But at the same time it's likely that the kid knew that he couldn't be slapped or the like and emboldened him to do what he did. What is he facing, suspension? Whatever. Few days out of school. And arrogance like that can be frustrating when you know that there is only so much you can do. At best this kid now knows that just because people really can't do something doesn't mean they won't. It doesn't mean that she should have, but if there was a way to pull out a silver lining, I guess that's it.

Well the Charlotte/Mecklenburg school district has a discipline problem, mainly because they don't expel any students, I wish I was kidding but I am not. Why don't they expel them, well because the more students the district have, the more fundings that they get. So a kid can bring an automatic weapon to a school function (actually happened), go to jail, and as soon as he's out of jail, he goes right back into the school system. He learns nothing.

and the school board wonder why the voters voted down the last school bond and will probably vote down the school bond that's coming up.

Isn't spitting on someone assault?

That's why I'd say slapping the kid was only self-defense.

Lots of nasty infections can be transmitted via spittle.

this is why I could never be a teacher or a policeman for that matter

though slapping a kid is very childish which leads you to wonder...

Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?

Now I'm not saying that the student is innocence, of course the student is guilty as well, but as the old saying goes, two wrong does not make a right. She shouldn't have spit in the Asst. Principal face, but the Asst. Principal should've just suspended her and have the school police officer escort her off school property.

It sounds like you needed to be slapped more as a child too.

If that little bastard thought spitting in someones face was appropriate behavior he needed to be slapped a long time ago.

By middle school, no she shouldnt have slapped him. She should have balled her fist and knocked a tooth out of his fucking head.

Yeah, I mean that.

Spit on me and dont be in diapers and atch how that turns out.

I have no problem going to jail to teach a life lesson.

This brat has just learned he can walk around spitting on people ...in their face no less, and just because he doesnt have any hair on his balls no one will do shit about it.

This is a prime example of why this country is fucked up.

Dr. Spock panty waist child raising concepts that eliminate imparting any respect for other people.

I bet his parents are real bags of shit too.

My kids would never dream of doing something like that...without being willing to accept the consequences no matter what they were...including getting busted in the mouth.

These principles need to get together and get goon squad of their minor nieces nephews and children together to just show up at school and beat the dog shit out of these slackers when they get out of line...that way its just kids on kids...since state government isnt going to back up teachers being respected...because where I live spitting on someone is considered assualt, a crime. You go to jail for doing it, not get patted on the head for being checked on it. Stupid rednecks. Did the fecking kid have a wad of chew in his mouth too?

Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?

Now I'm not saying that the student is innocence, of course the student is guilty as well, but as the old saying goes, two wrong does not make a right. She shouldn't have spit in the Asst. Principal face, but the Asst. Principal should've just suspended her and have the school police officer escort her off school property.

While I have absolutely no love for school authority, and many, many times I feel that principals and teachers overstep their bounds and do remarkably stupid things, and never get their comeuppance..

..She was *spit on.* If slapping the student is all she did she should get a medal.

If that little bastard thought spitting in someones face was appropriate behavior he needed to be slapped a long time ago.

I'm sorry but Corporal punishment has been dead a long time.

seriously if you just got whipped in front of the school your going to be pretty pissed off and more likely to be a little shit (and no you won't learn a thing, beyond that the only thing teachers have over you is a cane)

edit: oh its turned into one of those threads now...

Reading this article reminds me of this...

Jefferys lawless: Teacher (http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/219231)

It seems that the ability to meet out discipline is being undermined by the PC brigade who think suspensions and expulsion aren't going to achieve anything. There are "in-school" suspensions. It's getting out of hand.

I can't say I don't blame the Assistant Principal for her actions. The student spat on her and that is assault. She slapped him. Sure they're both at fault but board policies seem to make it more difficult to punish unruly students.

The kid spit in the assistant principal's face. If anything, not only should she have slapped the fucker, she should have done far worse. Kicked the bastard down a flight of stairs or something. The fucker deserved it, along with a lengthy sentence in juvie that should have straightened his disrespectful ass out.

Any kid who does that to an authority figure should be sent to military school for a year automatically. With drill sergeants who break them down physically and mentally. With duties seven days a week, 365 days a year, and no visitors allowed. The kind of place that would make Tranquility Bay look like fucking Club Med.

Damn kids.

The kid spat at her. He got slapped. Fair exchange in my opinion. He needs to learn the consequences of ill treating fellow members of society.

I was a horrible child in school, disruptive, snarky, long hair, out of uniform(while in Catholic school), the whole shot homemade fireworks(pipebombs is what they call them now), but never, never, did it occur to me to spit in a teachers face or to go to "dance" with them...well once...but i was in the right.

For one reason, fear. Not any direct fear..but i was taught very early on consequences exist for my actions, and I knew the result of me crossing that line would be far worse for me...then the reward.

Children are still aquiring societies morals...not that they have none of their own...but they are learning societies...so there must a set of systems in place to check them until they can check themselves.

A leather belt, and a flat hand I believe are perfectly acceptable ...perhaps a paddle if a belt is not available.

IF

As a parent I feel the punishment didnt suit the crime, I will take that up withthe school officials myself...

My schools paddled, and I never got a swat...I knew what line to not cross.

And yeah I have spit on people, and I did it because I wanted them to do something...and I knew full well they would if I spit on them.

Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?

Now I'm not saying that the student is innocence, of course the student is guilty as well, but as the old saying goes, two wrong does not make a right. She shouldn't have spit in the Asst. Principal face, but the Asst. Principal should've just suspended her and have the school police officer escort her off school property.


I think that student should be charged with assault and all charges against her should be dropped considering that spitting on somone is assault and she was simply defending herself.

Either way, she should have slapped the living shit out of that little, dirty, disrespectful brat. What kind of child does that? I'll tell you: one who's parents are not doing their job properly!

I'll tell you this much, when I was young, if we had spit in a teachers face we would have been beat sensless and we would never even think twice about doing it again. Sometimes you need to beat common sense into a filthy little brat like that.

By chance did it mention the races of the involved?

Children are still aquiring societies morals...not that they have none of their own...but they are learning societies...so there must a set of systems in place to check them until they can check themselves.

pfft you do this by making them guilt ridden and filled with disappointment in themselves, back in my school days I had a teacher who just stopped caring about whether or not I did my work that was worse than any beating :(

I'm sorry but Corporal punishment has been dead a long time.

seriously if you just got whipped in front of the school your going to be pretty pissed off and more likely to be a little shit (and no you won't learn a thing, beyond that the only thing teachers have over you is a cane)

edit: oh its turned into one of those threads now...

How many kids do you have?

I have four.

Corporal punishment is a perfectly effective form of discipline.
People like you are the problem.

If get beat in front of the school, you are far less likely to come back asking for another. Unless you suffer from a disorder, of course if you get tagged and then that person goes to jail you will be a little snot because you know now their is fear in he school's authority.

I love how people with no idea how to raise a child beyond some blather they read in magazine or some first year psych class have all the answers.

Pop out a few success stories then come back and tell me your secrets.

Spitting is technically assault. As long as she can prove that he spit on her I don't think she was in the wrong to slap him...

I don't agree with corporeal punishment though, and I doubt that slapping the kid would do much. I would have called the police, pressed charges and got the kid expelled.

pfft you do this by making them guilt ridden and filled with disappointment in themselves, back in my school days I had a teacher who just stopped caring about whether or not I did my work that was worse than any beating :(

OK, whatever you say.

Yes, of course because children are so concerned these days about what their teachers think...this child was obviously worried about her opinion.

Discipline does not involve guilt or disappointment, it involves consequences.

Again, tell me about your success before you suggest you know fuck all about raising children.

Ah yes, teaching children that violence should be met with escalated violence. How commendable :rolleyes:

How many kids do you have?

I have four.

and I know someone who has never had to raise there voice to there 11 year old, fact of the mater is this is school not home

Corporal punishment is a perfectly effective form of discipline.
People like you are the problem.

yes because just beating the shit out of kids is how they learn that something is wrong:rolleyes:

If get beat in front of the school, you are far less likely to come back asking for another.

no you just end up hating the person who done it and as a consequence school as a whole

Pop out a few success stories then come back and tell me your secrets.

I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids so how about you learn the difference between school and home life

Spitting is technically assault. As long as she can prove that he spit on her I don't think she was in the wrong to slap him...

I don't agree with corporeal punishment though, and I doubt that slapping the kid would do much. I would have called the police, pressed charges and got the kid expelled.

Her reaction wasnt punishment, it was a reaction.
A response out of anger only teaches kids to respond in anger.

corporal punishment must administered with the same discipline ones expects from the child. If you fgly off the handle shouting and foaming at the mouth while you sneseless beat their ass...well, you get what you give.

I dont raise my voice if I intend to continue with any discipline, I can not loose my discipline while trying to give discipline to my kids...it dont work that way.

Consequently they do very littel the older they get that warrants a spanking, starting young means I dont have to beat the dog shit out of them to get through.

By age 10 if your child has never been spanked...dont bother. Because you would need to spank with so much force it wouldnt be healthy.

Discipline involves being disciplined.

The suggestion that somehow today corporal discipline is out dated when clearly children are worse then they have ever been, and corporal discipline is used less now then ever before ...1+1=2.

I dont know where this delusion came from that it doesnt work, but one need only look at school yards and class rooms, at kids with parent in grocery stores or anywhere in public to see that whatever is the standard fare now damned sure isnt working.

Yes, of course because children are so concerned these days about what their teachers think...this child was obviously worried about her opinion.

you've clearly never got the "I'm very disappointed in you" talk, hell I've had a Sergeant give me that

Discipline does not involve guilt or disappointment, it involves consequences.

no discipline doesn't involve instilling fear to keep someone in line

Again, tell me about your success before you suggest you know fuck all about raising children.

and whats your success exactly, what did you raise problem child's to be astronauts or something?

clearly children are worse then they have ever been

been reading the mirror I see ;)

Her reaction wasnt punishment, it was a reaction.
A response out of anger only teaches kids to respond in anger.

corporal punishment must administered with the same discipline ones expects from the child. If you fgly off the handle shouting and foaming at the mouth while you sneseless beat their ass...well, you get what you give.

I dont raise my voice if I intend to continue with any discipline, I can not loose my discipline while trying to give discipline to my kids...it dont work that way.

Consequently they do very littel the older they get that warrants a ing, starting young means I dont have to beat the dog out of them to get through.

By age 10 if your child has never been ed...dont bother. Because you would need to with so much force it wouldnt be healthy.

Discipline involves being disciplined.

The suggestion that somehow today corporal discipline is out dated when clearly children are worse then they have ever been, and corporal discipline is used less now then ever before ...1+1=2.

I dont know where this delusion came from that it doesnt work, but one need only look at school yards and class rooms, at kids with parent in grocery stores or anywhere in public to see that whatever is the standard fare now damned sure isnt working.



Correlation does not imply causality. I somehow doubt the rise in misbehaving kids can be pinned down on one thing.

and I know someone who has never had to raise there voice to there 11 year old, fact of the mater is this is school not home



yes because just beating the shit out of kids is how they learn that something is wrong:rolleyes:



no you just end up hating the person who done it and as a consequence school as a whole



I'm not going to tell you how to raise your kids so how about you learn the difference between school and home life

A slap or a spanking is not beating the shit of them...learn the difference.

Oh, you know someone with kids so that makes you an authority on child discipline...I know someone who has performed surgery does that mean you would let me operate on you? Or take my medical advice?

Discipline in school or home must be consistant...but then how would you know that? You dont have kids.

Ohh, so you hate the person who corrected your poor behavior...yeah you sound like a person who has never deserved anything that has happened to them because of their own actions.

However, the behavior of most people through out hte history of corporal punishment in this nation doesnt bear out your claim.

The rampant lack of discipline in both the UK and the US do bear out my claim that corporal discipline is effective and needed.

People like you who think that there should be no consequence and no escalation of consequence ...I really dont know.

I suppose this kid will figure it out when he spits in cops face one day for writting him a speeding ticket...since discipline for a child is wrong.

So since you suggest ignoring the behavior is so effective I will suggest that my seven year old's teacher simply let him run around the class roughshod and she do and say nothing...that will show him.

Of course she will then look at me like I am outof my fucking mind.

At which point I will explain that that should work with all the kids...jsut let them all do as they will and they will ALL figure out you just dont care and all the first graders with then take an introspective moment and discipline themselves...ok.

Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?



I bet you wouldnt be saying that if the teacher was a MAN.

Correlation does not imply causality. I somehow doubt the rise in misbehaving kids can be pinned down on one thing.

Correlation does not imply casualty, it also does not rule it out, nor is it an indicator of alack of possibilty. In reality it is an indicator of probability.

Since you can create a control of western Society you will never have empirical evidence.

So what is your point? That you doubt the rise in misbehaving kids is realted to a lack of consequence so you misuse a logical value...and that proves what? Nothing.

However, the behavior of most people through out hte history of corporal punishment in this nation doesnt bear out your claim.

oh sorry I thought you was being serious

The rampant lack of discipline in both the UK and the US do bear out my claim that corporal discipline is effective and needed.

there is no rampant lack of discipline and the idea that back in the days of corporal punishment there was order is funny though the idea that you actually think like that isn't

...
I am not a teacher.
Or school staff.
So I concede Call to Power that i am relating at home corporal discipline to area I know little of.

I cant effectively base my arguement about an orange with an apple.

I got a little heated about this isssue and therefore carried away.

I apologize for any personal remark I might have made...or intended to make.

I do personally beleive that corporal discipline is an effective tool in child raising, both at school and at home.

Respectfully, you exageratting that into suggesting I support beating a child is absurd.

I also support the native american practice of throwing cold water on children when then get off the chain...doesnt mean I support water boarding them.

So I digress, I must agree to disagree with you.

I will not get into a pissing contest with someone I have sig'd.

A slap or a spanking is not beating the shit of them...learn the difference.
Assault is still a crime.

Oh, you know someone with kids so that makes you an authority on child discipline...I know someone who has performed surgery does that mean you would let me operate on you? Or take my medical advice?
You managed to get someone pregnant or live through childbirth, why should you know more about parenting than qualified experts? Having cancer doesn't make you an oncologist, and having kids doesn't make you a good parent.

Discipline in school or home must be consistant...but then how would you know that? You dont have kids.
So where did you get your psychology doctorate?

However, the behavior of most people through out hte history of corporal punishment in this nation doesnt bear out your claim.
Source?

The rampant lack of discipline in both the UK and the US do bear out my claim that corporal discipline is effective and needed.
Strange, the US Bureau Of Justice Statistics claims that violent crime has been decling since 1993(Source (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm)) and assaults by a person aged 12 and over are at an all time low(Source (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/aslt.htm)).

People like you who think that there should be no consequence and no escalation of consequence ...I really dont know.
You're a telepath as well as a psychologist and sociologist?! My god, how do you find time to post here, surely you should be out solving crimes with your amazing powers?

I suppose this kid will figure it out when he spits in cops face one day for writting him a speeding ticket...since discipline for a child is wrong.
I hope the cop will know better than to needlessly escalate a violent situation

Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?

Now I'm not saying that the student is innocence, of course the student is guilty as well, but as the old saying goes, two wrong does not make a right. She shouldn't have spit in the Asst. Principal face, but the Asst. Principal should've just suspended her and have the school police officer escort her off school property.

Are you freakin' kidding me!!!

wow....

White people need to beat their kids (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI) :p

Assault is still a crime.


Well since the law says it is not assault I dont have anything to worry about do I.

You managed to get someone pregnant or live through childbirth, why should you know more about parenting than qualified experts? Having cancer doesn't make you an oncologist, and having kids doesn't make you a good parent.

No, I have managed to rasie them. 'A' students, relative social functionality, they seem to like me, oh and i did it for most of those years as a single parent. Father. I never said I was an oncologist. No having kids doesnt make you a good parent, having good kids does.
For the record being an onconlogist doesnt tell you how to deal with having cancer, having cancer does. Just like a degree doesnt tell you how successfully raise kids, successfully raising kids does.
You dont get an opinion for an expereince as if you are qualified to have it until you have had the expereince.


You're a telepath as well as a psychologist and sociologist?! My god, how do you find time to post here, surely you should be out solving crimes with your amazing powers?

Wow.
Stand up comedy, from such a sit down person I am surprised.
Do you do magic too?


All links can be found on the NCPC(National Crime Prevention Council website, they have a nice collection of links for researching any type of crime in the united states or specific crimes.
http://www.ncpc.org/
and based on those, I stand by my original statements.

I hope the cop will know better than to needlessly escalate a violent situation
I'm sure he will - with the blunt round end of his baton.
If you don't believe me, go spit in a cop's face and see what they do.

I think the statue allows physical punishment, like spanking, not blantent abuse.

what's so blatantly abusive about a slap to the face that a smack to the butt is not?

I don't know why, but I thought of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhyTH6AhZ_0&mode=related&search=

:D

I don't know why, but I thought of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhyTH6AhZ_0&mode=related&search=

:D

lolz....:p

No, I have managed to rasie them. 'A' students, relative social functionality, they seem to like me, oh and i did it for most of those years as a single parent. Father. I never said I was an oncologist. No having kids doesnt make you a good parent, having good kids does.
For the record being an onconlogist doesnt tell you how to deal with having cancer, having cancer does. Just like a degree doesnt tell you how successfully raise kids, successfully raising kids does.
Even if we do take it that your parenting methods worked, human children are not a homogenous group any more than human adults. Corporal discipline isn't universally the right option just because you used it and have good kids.


Wow.
Stand up comedy, from such a sit down person I am surprised.
Do you do magic too?
A couple of card tricks, but nothing spectacular.


All links can be found on the NCPC(National Crime Prevention Council website, they have a nice collection of links for researching any type of crime in the united states or specific crimes.
http://www.ncpc.org/
and based on those, I stand by my original statements.

Of the statistics cited here (http://www.ncpc.org/programs/tcc/cw_session2.php) the first is showing a drop in violent crime(just like the DOJ link I posted earlier), the second is the same Bureau of Justice Statistics I linked to earlier, and the third (shockingly) has largely the same statistics as the other two.

Maybe you should try and find statistics that don't show a drop in juvenile crime if you want to argue that children aren't disciplined enough. Unless you want to attribute these low crime levels to poor discipline.

what's so blatantly abusive about a slap to the face that a smack to the butt is not?

A spanking is administered because the child has done something wrong, the child knows why it got the spanking, and they'll probably talk about it afterwards.

Child spit on Asst. Principal
Asst. Principal slap child
Asst. Principal gets fired
and there's no discussion.

I'm sorry but Corporal punishment has been dead a long time.

Yeah, and look at the direction society's been headed in ever since corporeal punishment fell out of practice. When I was a kid I was spanked, and most of the kids I knew were spanked, and the whole time I was in school there were no shootings, or bomb threats, or guns brought to school. Then came this obsession with children's "rights," including-- apparently-- the right not to be disciplined by their parents, or be parented by their parents. And nowadays the kids are *out of control,* and everyone's wondering "why, O why are the poor, innocent children going so wrong?" It's because adults are being coerced and intimidated out of *correcting* children, which is one of the principle roles of adults. So the kids aren't learning that their actions have consequences-- that you can't hit or spit on or otherwise assault another person with impunity, and they just get perpetually bolder, less constrained, less respectful, and more dangerously anti-social.

The moral of the story is: parents-- whallop your kids' asses or they'll grow up to be thugs and convicts!

[QUOTE=Call to power;12717923]I'm sorry but Corporal punishment has been dead a long time.[QUOTE]

Yeah, and look at the direction society's been headed in ever since corporeal punishment fell out of practice. When I was a kid I was spanked, and most of the kids I knew were spanked, and the whole time I was in school there were no shootings, or bomb threats, or guns brought to school. Then came this obsession with children's "rights," including-- apparently-- the right not to be disciplined by their parents, or be parented by their parents. And nowadays the kids are *out of control,* and everyone's wondering "why, O why are the poor, innocent children going so wrong?" It's because adults are being coerced and intimidated out of *correcting* children, which is one of the principle roles of adults. So the kids aren't learning that their actions have consequences-- they you can't hit or spit on or otherwise assault another person with impunity, and they just get perpetually bolder, less constrained, less respectful, and more dangerously anti-social.

The moral of the story is: parents-- whallop your kids' asses or they'll grow up to be thugs and convicts!

Seconded...just read my sig...

A spanking is administered because the child has done something wrong, the child knows why it got the spanking, and they'll probably talk about it afterwards.

Child spit on Asst. Principal
Asst. Principal slap child
Asst. Principal gets fired
and there's no discussion.

you think the child didn't associate her spitting on a person with that person slapping her? how is that not exactly the same as a spanking?

Yeah, and look at the direction society's been headed in ever since corporeal punishment fell out of practice.

Violent crimes involving juveniles have been declining for some time. How terrible.

Violent crimes involving juveniles have been declining for some time. How terrible.


Sorce?

Anyway the only reason people are so upset about this isa because the teacher was a woman. If the teacher was a man I doubt this would even raise an eyebrow. Damn mysogynistic society!

If I were that principal, I would've kicked the little punk's ass. Sometimes, these kids just need to have the hammer brought down on them to keep them in line.

I was caned at school (UK private preparatory - needed parental permission, which, thanks mom & pops, they gave) - it taught me nothing other than giving me a healthy disrespect for consequences (you get used to it) and learning that the punishment is for getting caught not the act itself.

The best punishment for an action is immediate response - that's how the brain works - touch a hot stove, get burnt - lesson learned.

Frankly I think, much as abused women are rightly given 'heat of the moment' defense, a teacher should be allowed leniency in a case like this.

It seems that the ability to meet out discipline is being undermined by the PC brigade who think suspensions and expulsion aren't going to achieve anything.

Generally they don't. However, enforced toilet cleaning duty for say, a month would do wonders to restore discipline. How many trouble makers who do it cause it's cool would continue on that path when they're stuck scrubbing toilet bowls hmm?

Make indiscipline undesirable and definitely 'uncool' and you'll certainly cut down on a lot of it.

If the brat had spit on me, I would have slapped him with assault charges.

I am generally *coughsneezepuke* not a violent person, but I would have punched the kid in the face...

Link
(http://wbt.com/news/detail_wbt.cfm;jsessionid=4630798492136b4f1673TR?article_id=31581)
I've heard about this on the Jeff Katz show on my way home from my internship at the hospital, apparently the student spit on the Assistance Principal first, and the Asst. Principal, being the mature adult she was, slapped the student. Yea, this is going to hit the fan not only for the school, the school district but for the asst. Principal too. Already I can tell you that she's going to lose her job. I mean comon, you cannot slapped a middle school kid! You just cannot! In North Carolina, an adult slapping a minor is a Felony. So she lost her job, probably won't be hired at another district and now she's going to jail, great job there missy. I mean honestly, whatever happened to common sense these days?

Common sense? What dipshit made it a felony to slap a minor?

Generally they don't. However, enforced toilet cleaning duty for say, a month would do wonders to restore discipline. How many trouble makers who do it cause it's cool would continue on that path when they're stuck scrubbing toilet bowls hmm?

Make indiscipline undesirable and definitely 'uncool' and you'll certainly cut down on a lot of it.
That's an idea that would work. OF course, it should be geared to match the age.

For younger children, I think just taking away "recess" and "lunch" and putting them in detention works. I had a week detention where I lost my recess. That was no fun in grade 4.

For older students, something that is really undesirable would work. Such as cleaning up after class hours or something.

I'm a parent and I dont want anyone hitting any of my kids.

I also dont expect one of my kids to spit in anyone's face,much less a teacher.

I think if I learned that my child spit in a teacher's face and the teacher immediately slapped his face once, though i wouldnt be happy,I'd live with it.
I'd be humiliated that my child behaved that way and would want to know what brought him to that stage too.

I dont see one immediate slap as abusive in response to spitting.

I think I would react the same way if a child spit in my face.

This is, of course, if thats exactly how it went down- An unruly kid spits directly into a teacher's face and same teacher immediately responds with one slap.

Teachers in the US and Canada stand in loco parentis to their students, Wilgrove. The teacher stands in place of the parent. Now unless ALL physical correction are absolutely denied IN LAW to parents, then a teacher can use corrective force within reason.

France, for example, IN LAW, states that teachers do not stand in loco parentis. So in France, no physical correction is allowed, ever.

Is it too much to ask that you stop talking out of your ass?

But at the same time it's likely that the kid knew that he couldn't be slapped or the like and emboldened him to do what he did. What is he facing, suspension? She is facing Felony charges, and probably her career is finished, she will probably need medication for the stress.

The student is going to be treated like a hero by the other students.

If the brat had spit on me, I would have slapped him with assault charges.the student is a minor, he can breake your jaw.. and still has almost nothing to worry about.. you on the other hand are likely to land in jail if you touch a hair of him.

I could never work in education. Someone spits on me my first reaction would be to beat the crap out of him.

...and learning that the punishment is for getting caught not the act itself.You were going to learn that sooner or later ;)

Just to give you an idea of how messed up the school system is... and this is in Canada.

I was suspended in high school, in May of my OAC year (grade 13) for a hell of a lot less than what this kid wasn't suspended for. I had told off teachers for using the entrance as an exit because I nearly collided with the group.

I then was using the ONLY available computer for school work and the librarian comes up and asks me to leave the computer so they can work on the network. I say no because I can plainly see that other students are violating rules and I don't think I should have to move if I'm working on a school project.

I made it clear I'm doing school wrok and I say that I need to finish and I go back to work. She threatens to call the VP and I ignore her. After all, I figure that school work takes precedent over internet surfing, which is what the other students were using their computers for in the library despite signs that explicitly said that the computers were for academic use ONLY.

So I got banned from the library and sent to the office where a guidance counsellor tried to give me a chance to avoid going into the VP's office but I told her I didn't care. I had been doing school work and that I was unfairly targeted so I didn't give a damn.

So when I got called into the VP's office, she listed off my offences, which were basically just talking back and some asinine shit I did when I was in grade 4 that I had been punished for at the time with a week's detention, in which I had my recess time taken away. But the VP thought it should be taken into account.

But because I was legally an adult, yes, I was 19 (like I said, grade 13), she couldn't call my parents and the suspension was unofficial because it didn't really break any of the zero tolerance rules other than not listening to authority because I needed to finish an assignment.

The really ironic part of all this is I didn't actually miss any class because I only had 2 classes a day, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. While I missed the one afternoon class, they had been watching a video and my morning math class the next day had been cancelled. ;)

She is facing Felony charges, and probably her career is finished, she will probably need medication for the stress.

The student is going to be treated like a hero by the other students.

Where, other than in Wilgrove's disjointed ramblings, does it say that she is facing any charges whatsoever?

North Carolina has no ban on corporal punishment, in fact, a Bill to abolish corporal punishment in schools was shot down in March of this year. However, various school districts within the state have voluntarily limited, or banned its use in their schools as a matter of school policy.

That still does not mean she'd be facing charges. And a teacher in NC can still smack your ass with a wooden paddle under law.

Just to give you an idea of how messed up the school system is... and this is in Canada.
Hardly an overview of the system. Next headline should be, 'my little anecdote from school'.

Hardly an overview of the system. Next headline should be, 'my little anecdote from school'.

No because in Ontario, zero tolerance has backfired and I know people who got away with worse and I've seen the stories of those who have been suspended for less. Teachers won't suspend students for worse than what I've done but they'll suspend students for petty things. Too much is resting on race and culture now.

Look at CW Jeffery's and the shooting of Jordan Manners. There were many cases where zero tolerance should have been enforced but it wasn't. The school boards, at least in this province are getting lax on discipline.

They can barely enforce a no cellphone rule.

No because in Ontario, zero tolerance has backfired and I know people who got away with worse and I've seen the stories of those who have been suspended for less. Teachers won't suspend students for worse than what I've done but they'll suspend students for petty things. Too much is resting on race and culture now.

Look at CW Jeffery's and the shooting of Jordan Manners. There were many cases where zero tolerance should have been enforced but it wasn't. The school boards, at least in this province are getting lax on discipline.

They can barely enforce a no cellphone rule. Teachers don't suspend students. Administrators do.

And I fail to see how your comments have anything to do with the topic.

Zero tolerance is an asinine doctrine...but that is fodder for another thread.

Zero tolerance is an asinine doctrine...

...One that never should've been thought of, much less implemented.

...One that never should've been thought of, much less implemented.

Bah, now you're in 'thought crime' territory :D

Cease!

Bah, now you're in 'thought crime' territory :D

Cease!

NEIN! MEIN SCHADENFREUDE IST WUNDERBARR!

...Ahem.

No because in Ontario, zero tolerance has backfired and I know people who got away with worse and I've seen the stories of those who have been suspended for less. Teachers won't suspend students for worse than what I've done but they'll suspend students for petty things. Too much is resting on race and culture now.

Look at CW Jeffery's and the shooting of Jordan Manners. There were many cases where zero tolerance should have been enforced but it wasn't. The school boards, at least in this province are getting lax on discipline.

They can barely enforce a no cellphone rule.

How does your post demonstrate this? Are you just going for non sequiters? You post even with you telling only your side of the story paints a picture of some with disdain for authority who violated school rules. If teachers are in the wrong there are methods for dealing with it. Unsurprisingly, you're not permitted to decide which commands by authorities you FEEL like following.

How does your post demonstrate this? Are you just going for non sequiters? You post even with you telling only your side of the story paints a picture of some with disdain for authority who violated school rules. If teachers are in the wrong there are methods for dealing with it. Unsurprisingly, you're not permitted to decide which commands by authorities you FEEL like following.

Wrong thread :D (he's politely moved to the zero tolerance thread)

Wrong thread :D (he's politely moved to the zero tolerance thread)

Ah. Incidentally, I was equally mouthy, but I knew I deserved it when I was punished. *hopes that creates a visual*

Ah. Incidentally, I was equally mouthy, but I knew I deserved it when I was punished. *hopes that creates a visual*

I managed to get away with a crazy amount of stuff...including skipping class to go drink (and telling the English teacher so). Good grades were like a license to goof off.

And considering the amount of fights I was involved in at school, I honestly don't understand how I WASN'T expelled at some point.

I managed to get away with a crazy amount of stuff...including skipping class to go drink (and telling the English teacher so). Good grades were like a license to goof off.

And considering the amount of fights I was involved in at school, I honestly don't understand how I WASN'T expelled at some point.

Ditto. Not on the drinking bit, but I guess if you win enough awards they pretty much don't care. I got kicked out of, on average, a class a day. I used to get teachers to do the weirdest things. I once got kicked out of class for telling a teacher I could still whoop her son's behind. As wrong as I sound there, she recognized my name as a kid who had beat up her son in elementary school and suggest that given his "training" I pray I don't see him in a dark alley. Come on, that should be on a wall some where.

"Jocabia - Unusual Incident Award - Got a teacher to challenge him to a fight with her son and then kicked him out for talking smack."

The dean was on the floor with that one. I thought I was going to have to get an oxygen tank for him.