NationStates Jolt Archive

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religionIf he doesn't exist, then wouldn't you lose knowledge of the truth?

Cast: Flameshield on other, Magnitude 30 (Apprentice level)
Good luck!

Cast: Flameshield on other, Magnitude 30 (Apprentice level)
Good luck!

Its a little warm in here...

Its a little warm in here...

I'm a warrior class, it's the best I can do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_wager

Knock yourselves out.

If he doesn't, you don't lose anything

What if you believe in the wrong god... and the real god doesn't mind atheists or agnostics, who after all just came to rational conclusions based on the lack of evidence and the implausibility of the possibility, but is infuriated by the people who had the nerve to believe in another god, a false one?

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Okay, I'll bite :)

Pascal's Wager may be a good argument for personal belief, but if no religion existed, Pascal's Wager would not be neccessary. Therefore, it is not a good argument for religion.

Was I gentle enough?

Cast: Flameshield on other, Magnitude 30 (Apprentice level)
Good luck!

[sarcasm]Oh noes he's Christian, call the cops to disperse the angry mobs :eek: [sarcasm/]

Seriously, why is mentioning certain topics suddenly HAVE to become a flame war? Is this not a forum for political bias free discussion? Is this forum not supposed to have diversity in order to function the way Max Barry intended?

[sarcasm]Oh noes he's Christian, call the cops to disperse the angry mobs :eek: [sarcasm/]

Seriously, why is mentioning certain topics suddenly HAVE to become a flame war? Is this not a forum for political bias free discussion? Is this forum not supposed to have diversity in order to function the way Max Barry intended?

I'd bring out the HI, YOU MUST BE NEW HERE sign, but that just isn't the case....

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

It is a very good argument for cynical opportunism in religious thinking but very little else. If God does exist and is omnipotent, he will undoubtedly see through your little ruse and condemn you to where ever it is he sends sinners these days...probably the premiere of Lindsey Lohan's latest 'film'.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

What do you gain?

I'd bring out the HI, YOU MUST BE NEW HERE sign, but that just isn't the case....

This is a forum specifically designated for unbiased political discussion which should be free to all topics and should allow minority groups like Christians and Muslims and others to post here as much as everyone else that way we have diversity in opinion thus keeping the forum alive with exciting and new debates. Enough of these childish accusations and flames. Lets face it you were flame baiting in an attempt to get this thread locked so no one else would want to hear what this man has to say about religion because he disagrees with you. You may correct me if your wrong.

I'm afraid your argument makes no sense.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Several major flaws:

1) If he doesn't exist, you have lost quite a lot of choice in your life for nothing. Last I checked, Christians do have to follow rules.

2) If he does exist, I'm likely going to Hell because I'm not a good follower, or a consistent follower. Even if my spiritual ethic were to improve later in life, I wouldn't know whether I was going to Heaven or Hell until I actually die, and that is a gamble I would sooner avoid. Worse than a life lived in the pursuit of worshiping a god is doing so incorrectly and being damned despite a lifetime of good intentions.

3) If God exists, what about every other deity in the Pantheon? I wouldn't want to piss off Allah or miss my chance at Nirvana by following the wrong religion.

4) Which God are we talking about, here? There are so many denominations of Christianity that going to Hell could be the result of becoming a Jehova's Witness rather than a Mormon or Baptist.

Basically, that oversimplification of religion doesn't work.

This is a forum specifically designated for unbiased political discussion which should be free to all topics and should allow minority groups like Christians and Muslims and others to post here as much as everyone else that way we have diversity in opinion thus keeping the forum alive with exciting and new debates. Enough of these childish accusations and flames. Lets face it you were flame baiting in an attempt to get this thread locked so no one else would want to hear what this man has to say about religion because he disagrees with you. You may correct me if your wrong.

That's rather presumptuous, no? Oh, and in this case, I believe you mean "you're," the contraction of "you are," and not the 2nd person possessive.

That's rather presumptuous, no? Oh, and in this case, I believe you mean "you're," the contraction of "you are," and not the 2nd person possessive.

It was directed at the flamer.

I'm afraid your argument makes no sense.

Whose doesn't?

This is a forum specifically designated for unbiased political discussion which should be free to all topics and should allow minority groups like Christians and Muslims and others to post here as much as everyone else that way we have diversity in opinion thus keeping the forum alive with exciting and new debates. Enough of these childish accusations and flames. Lets face it you were flame baiting in an attempt to get this thread locked so no one else would want to hear what this man has to say about religion because he disagrees with you. You may correct me if your wrong.

I certainly was not! I was wishing the OP good luck with his topic, did you see that part? I said what I said because I know the nature of these forums, not because I was trying to get it locked.

And who said I disagree with Christianity in the first place?
Oh, and
It was directed at the flamer.
FlameSHIELD. ON OTHER.

Play more Fantasy.

This is a forum specifically designated for unbiased political discussion which should be free to all topics and should allow minority groups like Christians and Muslims and others to post here as much as everyone else that way we have diversity in opinion thus keeping the forum alive with exciting and new debates. Enough of these childish accusations and flames. Lets face it you were flame baiting in an attempt to get this thread locked so no one else would want to hear what this man has to say about religion because he disagrees with you. You may correct me if your wrong.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...what the fuck? I'm a little amused at what your definition of a majority group is...:rolleyes:

4) Which God are we talking about, here? There are so many denominations of Christianity that going to Hell could be the result of becoming a Jehova's Witness rather than a Mormon or Baptist.



"Hello, everyone, welcome. I would just like to say that you ARE dead and this IS Hell."

"But, I shouldn't be here. I was a devout Catholic."

"And I'm a Jehova's Witness."

"Oh, I'm sorry. You were wrong. The correct answer was Mormon. Yes, the Mormons."

God may not be bad but the interpretation of the religion based on god can. Like Islam. Islam is not a bad religion at all. But the extremists interpret the holy war jihad as an ongoing war. They believe that by hurting others, they bring honor to themselves, god, and the religion. Without the presence of a god, people would not be able to interpret the religion in a way that could cause harm to other people.

It was directed at the flamer.

Did you carefully re-read the part I bolded? Is that truly what you meant?

Whoa, whoa, whoa...what the fuck? I'm a little amused at what your definition of a majority group is...:rolleyes:

I meant on this site, there are only two Muslims on this forum who I can name assuming of course that Ban Liden is Muslim. The other is Sovietstan. There are about 8 Christians here and at least 30 active posters, Everyone else is a different ideology that tends to stamp out Christianity and Islam.

"Hello, everyone, welcome. I would just like to say that you ARE dead and this IS Hell."

"But, I shouldn't be here. I was a devout Catholic."

"And I'm a Jehova's Witness."

"Oh, I'm sorry. You were wrong. The correct answer was Mormon. Yes, the Mormons."

God, I love South Park.

God may not be bad but the interpretation of the religion based on god can. Like Islam. Islam is not a bad religion at all. But the extremists interpret the holy war jihad as an ongoing war. They believe that by hurting others, they bring honor to themselves, god, and the religion. Without the presence of a god, people would not be able to interpret the religion in a way that could cause harm to other people.

You underestimate the gullibility of the commoner. If it isn't the Bible, it'll be The Communist Manifesto or Gulliver's Travels...

Or Star Trek.

I certainly was not! I was wishing the OP good luck with his topic, did you see that part? I said what I said because I know the nature of these forums, not because I was trying to get it locked.

And who said I disagree with Christianity in the first place?
Oh, and

FlameSHIELD. ON OTHER.

Play more Fantasy.

Apologies I thought you were being sarcastic.

I lol'd :p

South Park rules. :cool:

EDIT: Time-warp

"Hello, everyone, welcome. I would just like to say that you ARE dead and this IS Hell."

"But, I shouldn't be here. I was a devout Catholic."

"And I'm a Jehova's Witness."

"Oh, I'm sorry. You were wrong. The correct answer was Mormon. Yes, the Mormons."

I lol'd :p

"Hello, everyone, welcome. I would just like to say that you ARE dead and this IS Hell."

"But, I shouldn't be here. I was a devout Catholic."

"And I'm a Jehova's Witness."

"Oh, I'm sorry. You were wrong. The correct answer was Mormon. Yes, the Mormons."

I was hoping someone would get the reference.

Your seemingly obsessive knowledge of south Park just won me a bet.:D

I meant on this site, there are only two Muslims on this forum who I can name assuming of course that Ban Liden is Muslim. The other is Sovietstan. There are about 8 Christians here and at least 30 active posters, Everyone else is a different ideology that tends to stamp out Christianity and Islam.

Marrakech II is also Muslim, as I recall, and there's at least one other.

There are significantly more than 8 Christians on this forum.

While there are people who tend to antagonize the theists on this forum, they are also in the minority, more so than at the least the Christians on this forum, and possibly also the Muslims on this forum.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Yea, but then we get into which religion would God (or as I like to call it Divinity) prefer us to belong to. You know, you don't need religion to worship, honor, or even talk to Divinity, you can do it all by yourself ya know.

It prevents our free will in which god has given to us (IMO). So why take that away by making people believe out of fear of what might happen to them if they don't?

Yea, but then we get into which religion would God (or as I like to call it Divinity) prefer us to belong to. You know, you don't need religion to worship, honor, or even talk to Divinity, you can do it all by yourself ya know.

All you have to do is scream REALLY LOUDLY. :D

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

I don't believe that everyone should believe in God; only those who want to believe in him.

I think you gain from belief simply because it makes you more in tune with yourself and it helps you to adhere to a moral code.

I don't see why God, if he might exist, would care whether we follow him or not. And since I think all the religions of earth are man-made, there isn't any obvious reason that I should believe in him. :)

And SL, there is also at least one Sikh, at least one Hindu (and 5 people off the top of my head who have acknowledge at least being raised Hindu), and none of these people try and "stamp out" Christianity and Islam on this forum.

Not to mention Jewish people on this forum.

In fact, pretty much every poll that segregates by religion shows that there are just as many people of one religion or another as there are atheists.

All you have to do is scream REALLY LOUDLY. :D

LOL! I prefer to use the Megaphone 2000, it can be so loud that it can break windows in a 10 mile radius. :D

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

EGAD! He's right!

Anybody know the payoff on Odin?

I am not sure how many minutes I have left to place my bet!

"Oh, I'm sorry. You were wrong. The correct answer was Mormon. Yes, the Mormons."
Ah well, going to Hell will be worth it then, if only because I can do so content in the knowledge that the only thing magickal about my underwear was their contents.

I don't see why God, if he might exist, would care whether we follow him or not. And since I think all the religions of earth are man-made, there isn't any obvious reason that I should believe in him. :)

God made us and programmed religion into our nature so I guess He elaborately left biological breadcrumbs for us to follow. ;)

Ah well, going to Hell will be worth it then, if only because I can do so content in the knowledge that the only thing magickal about my underwear was their contents.

There's also weekly luaus. :D :p

God made us and programmed religion into our nature so I guess He elaborately left biological breadcrumbs for us to follow. ;)

Then he shouldn't left so many breadcrumbs!

God made us and programmed religion into our nature so I guess He elaborately left biological breadcrumbs for us to follow. ;)

Now, this is interesting. Current studies show that rats may in fact be hard-wired in their brains to make causal associations. If this is a common mammalian trait, it may help explain why people feel the need to invent gods!
Or, I may just be inventing an arbitrary causal relationship. Damn!

Could someone explain why making side remarks in a smaller font is so addictive?

Pascal's wager is a rather poor reason for belief in God, for the simple fact that thinking only of your own salvation is quite selfish, and God would definitely know about it, being God and all.

As well, who's to say that God only considers belief when judging you? If you live a good life, help those around you, are kind, etc. while remaing atheist, then you have just as good a chance of getting on God's good side as if you simply believed in him.

You can't really use scripture to back up any claims on spirituality, since God, being ineffable and all, could have "sent" the Bible to test us: those that blindly followed, or followed for personal gain, would "fail" the test, and those who were good people regardless of faith while resisting the "temptation" of the Bible would "pass" the test.

Now, this is interesting. Current studies show that rats may in fact be hard-wired in their brains to make causal associations. If this is a common mammalian trait, it may help explain why people feel the need to invent gods!
Or, I may just be inventing an arbitrary causal relationship. Damn!

Could someone explain why making side remarks in a smaller font is so addictive?

Because it's like whispering...in text!

God made us and programmed religion into our nature so I guess He elaborately left biological breadcrumbs for us to follow. ;)

I can't tell if you're being serious? Since we are only "human" because of mutations which led us evolving to this species, I guess it is also programmed into every other creature lol. That has got me thinking; my dog can't talk, but I know if he could he'd want me to have him baptised. Does the church allow this?

Then he shouldn't left so many breadcrumbs!

Its to show his wisdom, only the Christians who truly meditate can find them (note that the fundies get the first few dots, get frustrated then start making things up, true Christians would accept science and God's word and see how they work together they'd also instead of stopping innovation would acknowledge that the laws of science are God's laws for the universe as His commandments are the law for His children)

Its to show his wisdom, only the Christians who truly meditate can find them (note that the fundies get the first few dots, get frustrated then start making things up, true Christians would accept science and God's word and see how they work together they'd also instead of stopping innovation would acknowledge that the laws of science are God's laws for the universe as His commandments are the law for His children)

and the other religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.?

and the other religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.?

Hinduism got bigger crumbs, but they're older. Not as tasty...or something.

I can't tell if you're being serious? Since we are only "human" because of mutations which led us evolving to this species, I guess it is also programmed into every other creature lol. That has got me thinking; my dog can't talk, but I know if he could he'd want me to have him baptised. Does the church allow this?

Here's a breadcrumb, all life on earth evolved from one original form of life. Each lifeform that evolved from it and evolved into the life today had/has a purpose in His plan. I think that the fact that He made us different by simply slowly changing the atoms and arrangement of codons in DNA over the generations to create man and make man different from other organisms is a testament to His glory.

God made us and programmed religion into our nature so I guess He elaborately left biological breadcrumbs for us to follow.

Well if that's the case, why do Atheists and Agnostics exist?

Its to show his wisdom, only the Christians who truly meditate can find them (note that the fundies get the first few dots, get frustrated then start making things up, true Christians would accept science and God's word and see how they work together they'd also instead of stopping innovation would acknowledge that the laws of science are God's laws for the universe as His commandments are the law for His children)

Why should I have to meditate to Yaweh in order to live a happy life? What If I am happy not meditating and not believing in God? Also, If we should meditate to find these breadcrumbs, how am I supposed to know that without someone telling me? And Also, why should I go to hell just because someone forgot to tell me to meditate to Yaweh loooking for some breadcrumbs? It just Isn't fair.:mad:

and the other religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.?

Buddism was looking for something else in their search. Buddists are sort of agnostic from what I know.

Other religions are a result of prophets meditating and coming to different conclusions.

Buddism was looking for something else in their search. Buddists are sort of agnostic from what I know.

Other religions are a result of prophets meditating and coming to different conclusions.

Whats your opinions on the conclusions that they came to?

Well if that's the case, why do Atheists and Agnostics exist?



Why should I have to meditate to Yaweh in order to live a happy life? What If I am happy not meditating and not believing in God? Also, If we should meditate to find these breadcrumbs, how am I supposed to know that without someone telling me? And Also, why should I go to hell just because someone forgot to tell me to meditate to Yaweh loooking for some breadcrumbs? It just Isn't fair.:mad:

It's in our nature to ask questions on our existance then search for answers. It somes natually, some become athiest because they reason it out for some reason that He can't exist, agnostics reason it out for some reason that we're too mortal to know whether or not He exists.

Whose doesn't?

the OP's, duh! It should be rather obvious is it is a an unquoted response on page 1.

Now, this is interesting. Current studies show that rats may in fact be hard-wired in their brains to make causal associations. If this is a common mammalian trait, it may help explain why people feel the need to invent gods!
Or, I may just be inventing an arbitrary causal relationship. Damn!

Could someone explain why making side remarks in a smaller font is so addictive?

i don't know. I've always preferred making my side remarks invisible.

Whats your opinions on the conclusions that they came to?

That morality, religion, good and evil have been put in our genes and we are all merely being tested to see if we will choose God and His teachings even under certain circumstances.

I don't see it that way. If I decide God exists, it limits my personal freedoms. God says I'm not allowed to eat what I want, engage in pre-marital sex, have an open or homosexual relationship, say his name in vain, get an abortion, enjoy myself, etc, etc. I really am losing alot of I try to follow somebody else's rules for my life.

That morality, religion, good and evil have been put in our genes and we are all merely being tested to see if we will choose God and His teachings even under certain circumstances.

They weren't. Social conditioning hard-wires it into the human mind in the form of peer pressure through either positive or negative reinforcement. Those are concepts developed by humans. They were used to indoctrine other humans to create a sense of social order despite the potential drawbacks from such indoctrination.

That morality, religion, good and evil have been put in our genes and we are all merely being tested to see if we will choose God and His teachings even under certain circumstances.

Yup, and we all phail. Correct answer was Odin.

Because it's like whispering...in text!

By Jove, I do believe you're right! And there, I've gone and brought an entirely different pantheon into the discussion :p

It's in our nature to ask questions on our existance then search for answers. It somes natually, some become athiest because they reason it out for some reason that He can't exist, agnostics reason it out for some reason that we're too mortal to know whether or not He exists.

Well what about those of us who are Bee Keepers, Karls, Vegetable Sellers, Koi Breeders etc. who dont really care how we got here, but rather where we are going? If I was a vegetable seller, for example, I would be thinking of how to sell more vegetables, not about God/Allah/Jehovah/Yaweh/Zeus/Odin/Cthulhu/whatever.

That morality, religion, good and evil have been put in our genes and we are all merely being tested to see if we will choose God and His teachings even under certain circumstances.

Then why aren't we all Monotheists? If it was all programmed in our genes, then we would all belive in God.

Unless there was a mutation in the gene that causes moniotheism, but then, those people are obviously very well-off, or otherwise they wouldnt be alive.

guys

i was joking


i saw it in this probability book and i though it was kinda funny because of just the way it makes sense... I don't know


So everyone calm down
it was a joke

guys

i was joking


i saw it in this probability book and i though it was kinda funny because of just the way it makes sense... I don't know


So everyone calm down
it was a joke

...then why did you post it?

Well if that's the case, why do Atheists and Agnostics exist?Because the actual source is evil evolution of course! :D

Faith, religion and traditions are good at bonding big groups together....Who knows what other social animals - like ants - worship :)

Because the actual source is evil evolution of course! :D

Faith, religion and traditions are good at bonding big groups together....Who knows what other social animals - like ants - worship :)

Well, let's not forget what happened the last time there was evil evoloution. Nasty flood we got there. Besides, if the evoloution is 'evil', who cares? Natural selection (God) has let them live so it must be OK to be impieous.

As for that social animal thing, what an interesting idea. I once had this Idea that bats believed the world was created for them. Lots of bridges to sleep under, etc.:)

Everyone should worship The Holy Broken Chair of Fluffiness. If it exists, it will reward you with pure, fluffy bliss, and - while an unimaginably gruesome death - should you end up fluffalized to oblivion, you will get to join the Source Of Fluffiness in the form of pure Fluff. What could be greater?

And if it doesn't exist (heresy!), no loss. In fact, by living a fluffier life, you will become a much finer, more virtuous - not to mention fluffy - person, something that you can go around feeling all warm and fuzzy about.

Everyone should worship The Holy Broken Chair of Fluffiness. If it exists, it will reward you with pure, fluffy bliss, and - while an unimaginably gruesome death - should you end up fluffalized to oblivion, you will get to join the Source Of Fluffiness in the form of pure Fluff. What could be greater?

And if it doesn't exist (heresy!), no loss. In fact, by living a fluffier life, you will become a much finer, more virtuous - not to mention fluffy - person, something that you can go around feeling all warm and fuzzy about.

Lol, I might convert to that :D

Well what about those of us who are Bee Keepers, Karls, Vegetable Sellers, Koi Breeders etc. who dont really care how we got here, but rather where we are going? If I was a vegetable seller, for example, I would be thinking of how to sell more vegetables, not about God/Allah/Jehovah/Yaweh/Zeus/Odin/Cthulhu/whatever.



Then why aren't we all Monotheists? If it was all programmed in our genes, then we would all belive in God.

Unless there was a mutation in the gene that causes moniotheism, but then, those people are obviously very well-off, or otherwise they wouldnt be alive.

1) God has an elaborate plan for how we got here and the future so looking to Him shall help you prosper or do better while moving forward unless it's not within His plan of course.

2) we're all different and unique and come to different conclusions, this applies to holymen who found religions.

1) God has an elaborate plan for how we got here and the future so looking to Him shall help you prosper or do better while moving forward unless it's not within His plan of course.

2) we're all different and unique and come to different conclusions, this applies to holymen who found religions.

1)So why should it matter if I believe in Tzeench, if I fit into his elaborate plan anyway?

2) Because we'r all different and unique, that means I can worship Khorne and not Tzeench and still be OK?

1)So why should it matter if I believe in Tzeench, if I fit into his elaborate plan anyway?

2) Because we'r all different and unique, that means I can worship Khorne and not Tzeench and still be OK?

Yes, but don't you DARE worship Slaanesh. Crazy soul-eating bitch.

Yes, but don't you DARE worship Slaanesh. Crazy soul-eating bitch.

Lol, that is OK. I follow Khorne.:D

............

BLOOD TO THE BLOOD GOD!

1)So why should it matter if I believe in Tzeench, if I fit into his elaborate plan anyway?

2) Because we'r all different and unique, that means I can worship Khorne and not Tzeench and still be OK?

1) depends on His plan.

2) We all have a different tendency to get some things right and others wrong, only if you try to get as much as possible and glorify God in every way possible will you be ok.

Believe in him and you find peace during even your toughest times. Knowing he works things out for good, If you believe and are wrong what do you lose? Nothing!! But you don't believe and find out their is a God of creation you lose! He is the created look outside and around and you will see.:)

1) depends on His plan.

2) We all have a different tendency to get some things right and others wrong, only if you try to get as much as possible and glorify God in every way possible will you be ok.


1) Well I think I should know about (his/her/their/its/other's) plan so I can see if it is OK to believe in (him/her/them/it/other).

2) Was it the prophets, then, who decide what is right and what is wrong? What arguments have they got on their side that can be proven with actual evidence?

Believe in him and you find peace during even your toughest times. Knowing he works things out for good, If you believe and are wrong what do you lose? Nothing!! But you don't believe and find out their is a God of creation you lose! He is the created look outside and around and you will see.:)

Except when you believe in the wrong god.

The problem with Pascal's Wager is that you're still left trying to figure out which of the funny men in the sky are the right funny men in the sky.

Except when you believe in the wrong god.

The problem with Pascal's Wager is that you're still left trying to figure out which of the funny men in the sky are the right funny men in the sky.

Isn't it obvious? The only true god is The Hogfather!

Anyway, I'd better be off now, good luck in oll your religious/spiritual/holy/divine/unholy/theological/cultist-ish endevours!

I don't see why God, if he might exist, would care whether we follow him or not. And since I think all the religions of earth are man-made, there isn't any obvious reason that I should believe in him. :)
my sentiments exactly

1) Well I think I should know about (his/her/their/its/other's) plan so I can see if it is OK to believe in (him/her/them/it/other).

2) Was it the prophets, then, who decide what is right and what is wrong? What arguments have they got on their side that can be proven with actual evidence?

1) It's your choice whether or not to believe just don't interfere with other people figuring out whether its best for them to believe or not.

2) What is right and wrong comes naturally most of the time, it's hardwired into us, those that it's not hardwired into are evil and I believe should be stopped.

2) What is right and wrong comes naturally most of the time, it's hardwired into us, those that it's not hardwired into are evil and I believe should be stopped.

Which is why for the majority of human history, humans were treated equally regardless of race or gender, slavery was banned, children were not forced into hard labor, and women were not sold into marriages that were basically sexual slavery.

Oh....wait....shit.

Which is why for the majority of human history, humans were treated equally regardless of race or gender, slavery was banned, children were not forced into hard labor, and women were not sold into marriages that were basically sexual slavery.

Oh....wait....shit.

If they had properly worshipped Azathoth, this would never have happened. *nods*

Which is why for the majority of human history, humans were treated equally regardless of race or gender, slavery was banned, children were not forced into hard labor, and women were not sold into marriages that were basically sexual slavery.

Oh....wait....shit.

Thats what happens when we miss at least a couple breadcrumbs and then convince others it's right. I bet deep down in their subconscious they knew it was wrong.

I bet deep down in their subconscious they knew it was wrong.

.....riiiiiight.

Isn't it amazing the nonsense people will come up with when desperately trying to justify their flawed conclusions?

I never know what to say to Pascal's Wager. The pressure is just too much to bear.

Thats what happens when we miss at least a couple breadcrumbs and then convince others it's right. I bet deep down in their subconscious they knew it was wrong.

Sure didn't make a damn difference.

I don't see it that way. If I decide God exists, it limits my personal freedoms. God says I'm not allowed to eat what I want, engage in pre-marital sex, have an open or homosexual relationship, say his name in vain, get an abortion, enjoy myself, etc, etc. I really am losing alot of I try to follow somebody else's rules for my life.

You really worship the wrong god. Mine encourages me to eat whatever I want, have as much pre-marital sex as I feel like having, have that sex with whomever I want (so long as it is consensual), say its name in vain, in anger, in lust, or best of all screaming it out during orgasm (it appreciates that a lot), get an abortion if not in a position to bring the child up in a loving and supportive environment, and is all about me enjoying myself as much as possible.

In fact, it is rather pissed off at people rejecting his gift of all the pleasurable things in the world - it made them pleasurable for us to enjoy life. Not enjoying life to its fullest is throwing its gift away and is the only real sin.

In fact, it is rather pissed off at people rejecting his gift of all the pleasurable things in the world - it made them pleasurable for us to enjoy life. Not enjoying life to its fullest is throwing its gift away and is the only real sin.

winner.

You really worship the wrong god. Mine encourages me to eat whatever I want, have as much pre-marital sex as I feel like having, have that sex with whomever I want (so long as it is consensual), say its name in vain, in anger, in lust, or best of all screaming it out during orgasm (it appreciates that a lot), get an abortion if not in a position to bring the child up in a loving and supportive environment, and is all about me enjoying myself as much as possible.

In fact, it is rather pissed off at people rejecting his gift of all the pleasurable things in the world - it made them pleasurable for us to enjoy life. Not enjoying life to its fullest is throwing its gift away and is the only real sin.

Your God intrigues me... tell me more.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religionexcept then you are placing your 'belief' for all the wrong reasons and will be mightily disappointed.

Because it's like whispering...in text!
I thought this was whispering in text.
guys

i was joking


i saw it in this probability book and i though it was kinda funny because of just the way it makes sense... I don't know


So everyone calm down
it was a joke[Igor's Voice] Stand back master... it lives! [/Igor's Voice]

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

You thinking that is a good argument does not reflect kindly on your intelligence

You thinking that is a good argument does not reflect kindly on your intelligence
:p but if he was joking... how does that reflect on his Sense of Humor? :D

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

No it isn't, it's a good argument to pursue some kind of personal relationship with what, at best guess, is your creator.
There is NO good argument for religion any more. There are sensible ones, pragmatic ones ... but no good ones.

You can surrender without a fight
But never really pray
Pray without surrender...

:p but if he was joking... how does that reflect on his Sense of Humor? :D

Negatively as well

[sarcasm]Oh noes he's Christian, call the cops to disperse the angry mobs :eek: [sarcasm/]

Seriously, why is mentioning certain topics suddenly HAVE to become a flame war? Is this not a forum for political bias free discussion? Is this forum not supposed to have diversity in order to function the way Max Barry intended?

This is perhaps your most intelligent post ever. If only you could do this more often.

This is perhaps your most intelligent post ever. If only you could do this more often.

It is a rare point of clarity, true.
Perhaps it's the "persecution complex" referred to in that thread about breeding one's own republicans.

Because I do, in fact, exist.

Because I do, in fact, exist.

...and the greatest hoax ever perpetrated, other than global warming (of course), is convincing the majority of populace both living and dead that you don't.
:p

Naturally I haven't read the thread yet, but I assume that by post 100 someone has pointed out why Pascal's wager is stupid?

Naturally I haven't read the thread yet, but I assume that by post 100 someone has pointed out why Pascal's wager is stupid?

You mean we shouldn't give exactly the same number of responses to the exact same impetus as the past 39 times this particular issue came up?
What of gameplay? What of?

...and the greatest hoax ever perpetrated, other than global warming (of course), is convincing the majority of populace both living and dead that you don't.
:p

Hoax? Me? I just let people disbelieve so I can send them to hell. Why? because God (I) is (am) an asshole.:D

Naturally I haven't read the thread yet, but I assume that by post 100 someone has pointed out why Pascal's wager is stupid?

Yep. This one was dead from the get-go.

You know, I really, really wish Pascal was still around. I'd love to play some poker with the guy. I suck at cards, but I know a careful wager better than he does, clearly.

Honestly, there are a million possibilities:

1. You beleive in God, God is real, you go to heaven.
2. You beleive in God, oops, wrong God, try again.
3. You beleive in God, who, it turns out, is an evil bastard. Oopsies.
4. You beleive in God, who has limited entry into heaven to certain racial groups (JW God).
5. You beleive in God, there is no God. Yikes!
6. You beleive in God. Everyone goes to heaven. Good job wasting your life!
7. You beleive in God, do everything right, get into heaven, and discover you've got an eternity of boredom ahead of you. Have fun!
8. You beleive in God, God doesn't really care one way or the other what anyone does at all.
Etc.

Or

Possibility Number X: You don't beleive in God. Any of the other options is possible, but you lived a full and happy life. You either burn in hell, don't exist, or go to heaven. Either way, you lived your life to the fullest.

Hoax? Me? I just let people disbelieve so I can send them to hell. Why? because God (I) is (am) an asshole.:D

Yay!!!
*waves banners, sounds trumpet*

Now for the victory ride in the iron chariot!
...whoop, sorry.

You know, I really, really wish Pascal was still around. I'd love to play some poker with the guy. I suck at cards, but I know a careful wager better than he does, clearly.

Honestly, there are a million possibilities:

1. You beleive in God, God is real, you go to heaven.
2. You beleive in God, oops, wrong God, try again.
3. You beleive in God, who, it turns out, is an evil bastard. Oopsies.
4. You beleive in God, who has limited entry into heaven to certain racial groups (JW God).
5. You beleive in God, there is no God. Yikes!
6. You beleive in God. Everyone goes to heaven. Good job wasting your life!
7. You beleive in God, do everything right, get into heaven, and discover you've got an eternity of boredom ahead of you. Have fun!
8. You beleive in God, God doesn't really care one way or the other what anyone does at all.
Etc.

Or

Possibility Number X: You don't beleive in God. Any of the other options is possible, but you lived a full and happy life. You either burn in hell, don't exist, or go to heaven. Either way, you lived your life to the fullest.

Other than the "million" part, QFT.
*bows*

Other than the "million" part, QFT.
*bows*

Hyperbole, perhaps, but if you count a number of different God choices into the equation, and allow for infinite human inventiveness, a million might not be too unbeleivable.

Hyperbole, perhaps, but if you count a number of different God choices into the equation, and allow for infinite human inventiveness, a million might not be too unbeleivable.

That whole "infinity" thing, especially regarding humanity, has kind of resulted in the problem somewhat addressed here in the first place.
But your numbers are otherwise sound.
:p

2. You beleive in God, oops, wrong God, try again.

Or:
2. You believe in God, oops, wrong God - and the real God happens to be a jealous bugger and sends you to that special layer of Hell.
Didn't you wish you had been a nonbeliever now ?

Or:
2. You believe in God, oops, wrong God - and the real God happens to be a jealous bugger and sends you to that special layer of Hell.
Didn't you wish you had been a nonbeliever now ?
See, in the good old days, that would invite intervention from some other god, for a wager of sorts, and a great game betwixt elders over a human pawn would ... oh yeah, Job covered that a little bit too.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

It's not technically an argument at all.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Hum, I'm a Thiest, but really, this is what makes Athiests think we're all dumb-dumb-pops. Am I right Athiests? Then, should we also believe in Zeus, and Thor, and Apollo, and Heracles, and the Aztec Sun God, and Il Ruffino, (goes on)....

Then, should we also believe in Zeus, and Thor, and Apollo, and Heracles, and the Aztec Sun God, and Il Ruffino, (goes on)....

:eek:

No!
You can say:
* Cthulhu
* Azathoth
* Byakhee
* Cthuga
* Hastur the Unspeakable
* Ithaqua
* Mi-Go
* Nyarlathotep
* Shoggoth
* Shub-Niggurath
* Yog-Sothoth

...but you should NOT DARE to invoke ... Ill Rufferto.
*shudders*

...even if slathered in pirogie sauce as he may be pleased

:eek:

No!
You can say:
* Cthulhu
* Azathoth
* Byakhee
* Cthuga
* Hastur the Unspeakable
* Ithaqua
* Mi-Go
* Nyarlathotep
* Shoggoth
* Shub-Niggurath
* Yog-Sothoth

...but you should NOT DARE to invoke ... Ill Rufferto.
*shudders*

...even if slathered in pirogie sauce as he may be pleased

Right-o. "Thou shalt not use the Rufrd's name in vain."

Right-o. "Thou shalt not use the Rufrd's name in vain."

Good point. Perhaps there's no transgressions if its name is expressed in numerical-value fashion.
*ponders*

You know, I really, really wish Pascal was still around. I'd love to play some poker with the guy. I suck at cards, but I know a careful wager better than he does, clearly.

Honestly, there are a million possibilities:

1. You beleive in God, God is real, you go to heaven.
2. You beleive in God, oops, wrong God, try again.
3. You beleive in God, who, it turns out, is an evil bastard. Oopsies.
4. You beleive in God, who has limited entry into heaven to certain racial groups (JW God).
5. You beleive in God, there is no God. Yikes!
6. You beleive in God. Everyone goes to heaven. Good job wasting your life!
7. You beleive in God, do everything right, get into heaven, and discover you've got an eternity of boredom ahead of you. Have fun!
8. You beleive in God, God doesn't really care one way or the other what anyone does at all.
Etc.

Or

Possibility Number X: You don't beleive in God. Any of the other options is possible, but you lived a full and happy life. You either burn in hell, don't exist, or go to heaven. Either way, you lived your life to the fullest.

alright, repeat after me: b * e * l * i * e * v * e

And really, the biblical god does not exist. Otherwise the question should be answered by the 'believers' why nobody knew of him at all prior to the postexilic era of Judaism.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anythingIn the latter case you lose sex before marriage; for no reason at all.
Nevermind all the other things you're not allowed. But sex probably appeals to most people.

Pascal's Wager is an act of active disrespect of divinity, reducing it to balancing the relative effect of personal gains. If you do believe in, or even worship, God, you shouldn't do so because of what you gain out of it.

EGAD! He's right!

Anybody know the payoff on Odin?

I am not sure how many minutes I have left to place my bet!

don't know, but apparently vegas is giving ridiculous odds on "no god and everybody suffers for eternity because the universe just sucks like that". i certainly won't call it smart money, but it'd be a nice consolation to bet that way, just in case

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

If you send me £5 then you'll be insanely lucky for the rest of your life, if you don't then you'll be as unlucky as you possibly can be.

Sure, I might be lying, but are you prepared to risk it? It's only £5, and you've got everything to gain by betting and everything to lose if you don't...






This post was brought to you by Silly Responses to Bloody Stupid Arguments Inc.

This post was brought to you by Silly Responses to Bloody Stupid Arguments Inc.
I find your policy intriguing, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I find your policy intriguing, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Sure, we just need your £5 subscription fee. ;)

Put the money in a plain paper bag, go to the Tower of London and find the restaurant. Say to the server "I like chips in gravy", this is the password. After having said this, stand on one foot and hop in three anti-clockwise circles before placing the bag on the salad counter and leaving. We'll take it from there and you should receive our newsletter within your lifetime (if not, phone the helpline).

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion
Ok, serious question, here:

What is it with Pascal's Wager?

I don't get it. It sounded like pure bunk to me the moment I heard it, before I even knew that it was one of the most famous piles of crap in theology. So why are so many people completely enchanted by it? Why do so many people think they're being witty or clever or have made some lovely point when they bust out this crud?

Pascal's Wager convinced me, well, when I was eleven years old.

Ok, serious question, here:

What is it with Pascal's Wager?

I don't get it. It sounded like pure bunk to me the moment I heard it, before I even knew that it was one of the most famous piles of crap in theology. So why are so many people completely enchanted by it? Why do so many people think they're being witty or clever or have made some lovely point when they bust out this crud?I'm sure that for many, this is the first time they've ever felt clever. Hopefully they soon outgrow it.

My source says that it's doubtful.

My source is Jesus, by the way. He whispers vital information such as this in my ear. Nobody else seems to hear it, though.

My source is Jesus, by the way. He whispers vital information such as this in my ear.Prove it.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Pascal's Wager has been ridiculed about 300 years ago. Go read some book about the history of philosophy, please.


What do I gain if a "God" entity exists and I believe in it? You haven't proven that it is the christian/muslim God, so he might not give me heaven or some otherwordly "prize".

And yes, I could lose something by believing. I might have to give up eating meat on Fridays, or giving up sex (except for procreation). So, I would lose something. I might be compelled to give my money to the Church, or fighting in a holy crusade/jihad and lose my precious skin.

I think THIS (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Wilsoncastaway.jpg) is the guy we should really be worshipping!

Prove it.

Disprove it.

I think THIS is the guy we should really be worshipping!

We should be worshipping "http://this" ?

We should be worshipping "http://this" ?

He doth smite my post. Perhaps he will approve now....

I think THIS (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Wilsoncastaway.jpg) is the guy we should really be worshipping!

Sinner! Poit is the true god!

Sinner! Poit is the true god!

Stare at him and tell me he isn't the divine face! STARE, AND BEHOLD THE CREATOR!

No one is going to change their viewpoint based on what a faceless person on the internet says.

No one is going to change their viewpoint based on what a faceless person on the internet says.

Even if they have incontrovertable proof that contradicts said viewpoint? If so, then the person in question is a fool. Not that I'm suggesting there is such proof of the existence/non-existence of God, but if some were to come to light, wouldn't you be inclined to change your viewpoint, even if this news came in the form of a faceless post on a messageboard?

Even if such evidence never does come to light, it our duty as free men (and women) of The Internets to educate others in our beliefs, so they are fully educated in what they do/should or do not/should not believe in, and why they do/should or do not/should not believe it.

Disprove it.You were making the claim, so it should be you to come up with something substantial. You say that Jesus whispers something in your ears? Then you must have a way of determining that it is Jesus and nobody else.

Disprove it.

you can't prove a negative. :rolleyes:

You were making the claim, so it should be you to come up with something substantial. You say that Jesus whispers something in your ears? Then you must have a way of determining that it is Jesus and nobody else.

He says he is Jesus. Jesus wouldn't lie. Hence the Jesusness.

EDIT: Also, why did my last post get held back for moderation?

He says he is Jesus. Jesus wouldn't lie. Hence the Jesusness.
but a liar might lie and say that they are Jesus.

EDIT: Also, why did my last post get held back for moderation?
because you are new.

He says he is Jesus. Jesus wouldn't lie. Hence the Jesusness.

EDIT: Also, why did my last post get held back for moderation?

Maybe they feel that your 'parody' is coming close to trolling?

Or maybe Jolt is just screwing up again, who knows?

because you are new.

Do the mods do that now? Weird...

Do the mods do that now? Weird...

no, it's a jolt thing.....up to like 20 posts or something, they seem to hold them back randomly. there is a sticky in moderation or tech or something.

He says he is Jesus. Jesus wouldn't lie. Hence the Jesusness.

EDIT: Also, why did my last post get held back for moderation?
(All posts get held back until you're > 10 posts)

Jesus wouldn't lie, but let's try a little convoluted puzzle scenario here. Suppose you put two people in a room, one of whom was Jesus and always told the truth and the other of whom was pretending to be Jesus and lying whenever it suited that deception. How would you tell the difference between the two?

no, it's a jolt thing.....up to like 20 posts or something, they seem to hold them back randomly. there is a sticky in moderation or tech or something.

Thanks, I'll check that out.

Maybe they feel that your 'parody' is coming close to trolling?

The post that was held back wasn't part of this conversation.

It wasn't intended to be parody or trolling. Well, it may be like, half-parody, but it is supposed to make you think. If you can believe in a god or something similar, why can't you believe that Jesus himself whispers in my ear? A woman on TBN seems to have convinced her viewers that this happens to her.

but a liar might lie and say that they are Jesus.


I have no reason to mistrust the voices in my ear.

Jesus wouldn't lie, but let's try a little convoluted puzzle scenario here. Suppose you put two people in a room, one of whom was Jesus and always told the truth and the other of whom was pretending to be Jesus and lying whenever it suited that deception. How would you tell the difference between the two?

Put them both on a secret CIA special rendition flight to Morocco for torture until one of them owns up.

(All posts get held back until you're > 10 posts)

Jesus wouldn't lie, but let's try a little convoluted puzzle scenario here. Suppose you put two people in a room, one of whom was Jesus and always told the truth and the other of whom was pretending to be Jesus and lying whenever it suited that deception. How would you tell the difference between the two?

Check their hands.

*nods*

The post that was held back wasn't part of this conversation.

It wasn't intended to be parody or trolling. Well, it may be like, half-parody, but it is supposed to make you think. If you can believe in a god or something similar, why can't you believe that Jesus himself whispers in my ear? A woman on TBN seems to have convinced her viewers that this happens to her.

I didn't see it as trolling, I was just suggesting that the Mods might have done.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

That's the worst argument ever.

What if you choose the wrong god? What if the god you choose doesn't like those reasons? How devout can you really be to the god you choose to serve if those are your reasons?

Jesus wouldn't lie, but let's try a little convoluted puzzle scenario here. Suppose you put two people in a room, one of whom was Jesus and always told the truth and the other of whom was pretending to be Jesus and lying whenever it suited that deception. How would you tell the difference between the two?

Puzzles aren't cool at 3:30 am, but I'll give it a shot.

I guess you could get them both to say, try turning water into wine or perform some other miracle, and the one who can't is fake Jesus. But that isn't the answer you're looking for.

I guess I'm to tired to think anymore. I'll try again tomorrow.

Could SL please list the "8" Christians. I'd be very interested to see that list.

I'd like to add my two... dollars...

Believing in a god doesn't automatically make you lose pre-marital sex, forbid meat or anything of the sort. Believing in a god doesn't steal your life either. Unless you're one of those people.

I guess you could get them both to say, try turning water into wine or perform some other miracle, and the one who can't is fake Jesus. But that isn't the answer you're looking for.Yep, because one of the angels could do that, too. Or one of the fallen angels...

Yep, because one of the angels could do that, too. Or one of the fallen angels...
Or Paul Daniels:

http://www.ukgameshows.com/atoz/people/d/daniels_paul/pauldaniels2.jpg


“So, Father. Do you ever have any doubts about the religious life? Is your faith ever tested? Anything you would be worried about? Any doubts you’ve been having about any aspects of belief? Anything like that?”

“Well, you know the way God made us all, right? And he’s looking down at us from heaven and everything? And then his son came down and saved everyone and all that? And when we die we’re all going to go to heaven?”

“Yes. What about it?”

“Well, that’s the bit I have trouble with.”


Father Dougal McGuire. World’s best theologian.

Could SL please list the "8" Christians. I'd be very interested to see that list.

I could only think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head, not counting the fringers and people we've marked as trolls.

If you do believe in, or even worship, God, you shouldn't do so because of what you gain out of it.

..as opposed to *still* suffering and death even while in fearful servitude?
Good argument for Buddhism?

Pascal's Wager convinced me, well, when I was eleven years old.

...but you're feeling much better now?

I could only think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head, not counting the fringers and people we've marked as trolls.

I wouldn't pretend to be so bold as to claim I could count the religion of even a significant percentage of posters on NSG. I'd start stalling at around 20 people, maybe, and I bet I'd get some wrong. There are hundreds of people here. The idea that only 8 are Christians is laughable.

I can name a couple of Christians - Smunk, myself, Dem, JuNii and there are several more whose names escape me right now that I'm pretty certain about. I'll bet money that of the four I just listed perhaps two made the list. SL doesn't mean Christians. He means, people who agree with him.

No one is going to change their viewpoint based on what a faceless person on the internet says.

I think an argument can be made to counter that, although i'm really not gonna try here.
Besides, people just as easily change their viewpoint based on what a faceless mass of manipulative bastards say, whatever media they choose - 'net, paper, RNC talking points, et cetera.

Sinner! Poit is the true god!

But, what of Narf?
Or Zort?

I think an argument can be made to counter that, although i'm really not gonna try here.
Besides, people just as easily change their viewpoint based on what a faceless mass of manipulative bastards say, whatever media they choose - 'net, paper, RNC talking points, et cetera.

I've changed my opinion lots of time due to "faceless persons on the internet". Knowledge is knowledge.

I wouldn't pretend to be so bold as to claim I could count the religion of even a significant percentage of posters on NSG. I'd start stalling at around 20 people, maybe, and I bet I'd get some wrong. There are hundreds of people here. The idea that only 8 are Christians is laughable.

If memory serves from the numerous "What's your religion?" polls, christianity is the most represented religion after(or if one doesn't count) atheism.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion


What if, in choosing a religion, you believe in the wrong God and go to a bad place when you die because of it? Doesn't that make religion a pretty bad idea? Besides, being religious doesn't make you spiritual.


Anyhow, why should someone believe in a God if they have never seen any evidence of God or had any spiritual experiences? Isn't blind faith damaging to a persons personal relationships as well as to society as a whole? It seems to cause people to be insecure about the reality of their beliefs, which causes them to try to push those beliefs onto others (sometimes in fanatical ways), which in turn makes them feel more secure that more people hold the same beliefs as they do? In doing so much animosity is created between those who hold differing views and people get hurt.

Put them both on a secret CIA special rendition flight to Morocco for torture until one of them owns up.

Bedition's post gets held back, but this one ...?
:confused:

I wouldn't pretend to be so bold as to claim I could count the religion of even a significant percentage of posters on NSG. I'd start stalling at around 20 people, maybe, and I bet I'd get some wrong. There are hundreds of people here. The idea that only 8 are Christians is laughable.

I can name a couple of Christians - Smunk, myself, Dem, JuNii and there are several more whose names escape me right now that I'm pretty certain about. I'll bet money that of the four I just listed perhaps two made the list. SL doesn't mean Christians. He means, people who agree with him.

you forgot LG, everyone always does.

I've changed my opinion lots of time due to "faceless persons on the internet". Knowledge is knowledge.

QFT. *bows*

Bedition's post gets held back, but this one ...?
:confused:

Noob's posts get held back It saves us from spambots

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Problem is, there are many different religions. You'll only gain if you pick the right one, surely.

What if, in choosing a religion, you believe in the wrong God and go to a bad place when you die because of it? Doesn't that make religion a pretty bad idea? Besides, being religious doesn't make you spiritual.


Anyhow, why should someone believe in a God if they have never seen any evidence of God or had any spiritual experiences? Isn't blind faith damaging to a persons personal relationships as well as to society as a whole? It seems to cause people to be insecure about the reality of their beliefs, which causes them to try to push those beliefs onto others (sometimes in fanatical ways), which in turn makes them feel more secure that more people hold the same beliefs as they do? In doing so much animosity is created and people get hurt.

Some good points, also which concept of God are we talking, anyone of them?
What happens if the concept that you choose to belive in grants rewards for beliver and unbeliver both, then you may as well not belive.

fiath based belie thoughis eminent throught the human psyche and we are all prone to it, rather than damageing personal relationships it makes them. (How are you sure that your loved one loves you? You have no absolute proof, only their words and their actions, so you nessicaerly take it on faith)

you forgot LG, everyone always does.
I thought LG was in the middle of a schism with himself?

Apparently, the followers of Most High Holy Order of the Taco of St. Bartholomew have split with the Sanctified Order of the Muddy Mary.

A terrible day, indeed. :(

Noob's posts get held back It saves us from spambots
...yet "quality" posts like my own come through ...?
o.0
Double standard or something. Perhaps i slept with the right spammer or something.

you forgot LG, everyone always does.

Isn't Corny a Christian? Uh... Katghanistan, I think they've said they're a Christian too... I can't remember!? Uh... err...

you forgot LG, everyone always does.

:eek: I never would've guessed.

...yet "quality" posts like my own come through ...?
o.0
Double standard or something. Perhaps i slept with the right spammer or something.

Well could you imagine how many mods we'd need to monitor every single post we make for spam? They'd have to mod us all, it'd be madness.

Isn't Corny a Christian? Uh... Katghanistan, I think they've said they're a Christian too... I can't remember!? Uh... err...

Myrmi might be. Chandy is.

:eek: I never would've guessed.

He is. He is very wise, helped me out a few times.

:eek: I never would’ve guessed.
He’s not very evangelical, or disposed to talking about his faith (on these boards at least).

This argument only makes sense to believers.
How is that supposed to make you suddenly believe there is indeed a God in existance? It doesn't, not one jot.
Now, what if we just act like we believe in God, but actually don't. Well, we get told time and time again, that ain't good enough.

Pascal's wager is probably the weakest arguement for anything I have ever heard.

Well could you imagine how many mods we'd need to monitor every single post we make for spam? They'd have to mod us all, it'd be madness.iirc, there are some who make it prime motivation to do exactly that - Ruffy comes to mind (when he's not flickin' pix, drinking heavily, stalking, working on cloning techniques, or starting conflagrations that is)
It would be fun to some degree ... but i think that's how this place ended up with specifically a "Spam Forum" or something along those lines ... and Gabbly, come to think of it.

Myrmi might be. Chandy is.
Kohlstein (I think it went something like that) was, but he isn't here any more.

I suggest *someone* brings back Jesussaves. *cough*

Myrmi might be. Chandy is.

Myrmi is, I'm fairly certain.

Also Remote Observe-Kimchi has stated that he is.

iirc, there are some who make it prime motivation to do exactly that - Ruffy comes to mind (when he's not flickin' pix, drinking heavily, stalking, working on cloning techniques, or starting conflagrations that is)
Ruffy has a lot of demands on his time

It would be fun to some degree
Only for the abuse of power
... but i think that's how this place ended up with specifically a "Spam Forum" or something along those lines ... and Gabbly, come to think of it.

No board is complete without a spam forum.

He is. He is very wise, helped me out a few times.

He’s not very evangelical, or disposed to talking about his faith (on these boards at least).

That makes sense. In fact I only knew that Jocabia and Dem were Christian in context on another thread.

I'm still technically new here, I guess.

Kohlstein (I think it went something like that) was, but he isn't here any more.

I suggest *someone* brings back Jesussaves. *cough*

Well, we have a Jesusslaves, but he's not quite the legendary troll that Jesussaves was.

Some good points, also which concept of God are we talking, anyone of them?
What happens if the concept that you choose to belive in grants rewards for beliver and unbeliver both, then you may as well not belive.

yep - well not as exactly not believe in God but a particular religion. I am not saying that there isn't stuff to learn from religious texts and different spiritual traditions. I suspect the opposite.

fiath based belie thoughis eminent throught the human psyche and we are all prone to it, rather than damageing personal relationships it makes them. (How are you sure that your loved one loves you? You have no absolute proof, only their words and their actions, so you nessicaerly take it on faith)

Yes, I think it does grow some relationships for exactly the reason I said. They need someone to believe as they do to feel secure with themselves, but I think that bond is a dangerous one which doesn't allow for much personal groth when one shelters themselves from differing beliefs.

Believing someone loves you may take a certain amount of faith but that faith is normally based on observable actions of others. If someone said they loved me but never showed it I would not believe it just because they said it. IOW, I think that is a bit different from a faith in God.

How did I forget Kat? I suck.

Ruffy has a lot of demands on his timeLike many spammers, it might appear that sleep is less and less important of those ...

Only for the abuse of powerOn the posters' or the mods' part?
Besides, power's only fun when you're playing with it, right?
The rest of the time, it's chore.
..
...
....
:eek:
*comes to startling realization about life*


No board is complete without a spam forum.I suppose if i went to *any* other forum, i'da known that.

That makes sense. In fact I only knew that Jocabia and Dem were Christian in context on another thread.

I'm still technically new here, I guess.

For many of us, we only discuss it when we're discussing it, you know. I don't see how a religion that has survived 2000 years despite the many attacks on it (much of the time from within) needs me to be shoving it down people's throats. I'm not alone in this feeling.

Believing someone loves you may take a certain amount of faith but that faith is normally based on observable actions of others. If someone said they loved me but never showed it I would not just believe it because they said it. IOW, I think that is a bit different from a faith in God.

Yeah undoudtatly there are differances, but many who belive in God do so because of subjective evidance. The same could be said of falling in love.

Well, we have a Jesusslaves, but he's not quite the legendary troll that Jesussaves was.

Jesussaves is too busy in the middle east right now.
Jesusslaves has a few funny things to say, though.

Yeah undoudtatly there are differances, but many who belive in God do so because of subjective evidance. The same could be said of falling in love.

By the way, If I Recall Correctly (in case, you didn't get that answer yet).

Like many spammers, it might appear that sleep is less and less important of those ...
What is the "sleep" you speak of? *drinks a can of caffeine*
On the posters' or the mods' part?
Both, I guess
Besides, power's only fun when you're playing with it, right?
The rest of the time, it's chore.
..
...
....
:eek:
*comes to startling realization about life*
Absolutely

Come to GM (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Generalite_Mafia/index.php?act=idx). We has loads of spam.Don't you get busted for this kinda thing? o.0

Besides, a lot of people suggest "spam", but i really just get "spam lite" or even "Treet", the Spam substitute. *shakes head*

By the way, If I Recall Correctly (in case, you didn't get that answer yet).

I did thank you. Hehe perhaps you should have said BTW?

Yeah undoudtatly there are differances, but many who belive in God do so because of subjective evidance. The same could be said of falling in love.

Big differences, but I see where you are coming from. I believe in 'God' (I really only use that word out of convenience even though I don't like the mental image it brigns with it) because of personal experiences which could very well have been a called a psychotic episode by those with no belief in God.

Don't you get busted for this kinda thing? o.0

Besides, a lot of people suggest "spam", but i really just get "spam lite" or even "Treet", the Spam substitute. *shakes head*

Do I?
*edits*

Big differences, but I see where you are coming from. I believe in 'God' (I really only use that word out of convenience even though I don't like the mental image it brigns with it) because of personal experiences which could very well have been a called a psychotic episode by those with no belief in God.
You know, since the mortal coil is basically a proving ground for choice (and, i guess, faith), an argument about a psychotic episode isn't outside the parameters of any kind of significant experience of the challenge of faith and spirituality.
I've got a few stories of my own, as many do, i suspect.
*bows*

You know, since the mortal coil is basically a proving ground for choice (and, i guess, faith), an argument about a psychotic episode isn't outside the parameters of any kind of significant experience of the challenge of faith and spirituality.
I've got a few stories of my own, as many do, i suspect.
*bows*


I really have no way to dispute such a claim but really don't care too either. If someone wishes to believe that and there is no evidence to the contrary, what is the point in even trying? Yano?

I was originally an atheist before my experiences ever occured and would have said the same thing.

BTW (stupid Peep), I'm now a lurker on your stinkin' forum, Ifreann. Why do I hang out with you people?

Meanwhile, SB, I like how you put that.

I really have no way to dispute such a claim but really don't care too either. If someone wishes to believe that and there is no evidence to the contrary, what is the point in even trying? Yano?

I was originally an atheist before my experiences ever occured and would have said the same thing.That's why i'm not an atheist. *nods*
I simply don't whore my soul and will out to any run-of-the-mill despotic, qliphotic entity that might fill in the blanks of stuff i'll have to wait to find out or have resolved by inevitability.

BTW (stupid Peep), I'm not a lurker on your stinkin' forum, If. Why do I hang out with you people?

The Tie That Binds! :p

Big differences, but I see where you are coming from. I believe in 'God' (I really only use that word out of convenience even though I don't like the mental image it brigns with it) because of personal experiences which could very well have been a called a psychotic episode by those with no belief in God.


Heheh yeah I have heard that one before. A little tale for ya.

Once I was a Pagan, and during this time in my life activly practiced magic along with my fellow Pagans, one of which is a great friend of mine who I shall call BD.

Now many years later BD is a commited Atheist, and when we talk about the things we have seen and done together he totaly denies it, when I push him on the subject, he goes 'Ohh yeah that was just mass hallucination'

When I question his reasons for being Atheist and he gives me the whole speil about faith and irrationality, and rational though etc... I ask him, 'So you have proof that the things you and I have seen and done in the past together were mass hallucination?'

Of course he has none, but he has to have some reason to belive what he does(or if you prefer he must have some reason for his lack of belife in things 'supernatural') so he picks the only seemingly rational idea that fits, whilst all the time denying both the evidance of his senses, and the irrationality of this halluciantion reasosning(irrational, coz he has no proof).

Rational critcal thinking skills, are not the norm for us(they must be learned), faith based belife, or belief based on subjective evidance, actualy pulls more weight with the human beast.

Look towards the irrationlity of racism, or religous intolarance, heh indeed look towards the fear of the Atheist in condemeing religoin for it's irrational thought. Look at the sphere of nationalism, or pride in ones city, or country of birth. All of these are ideas and belifes with nor rational thought behind them.

BTW (stupid Peep), I'm now a lurker on your stinkin' forum, If. Why do I hang out with you people?

Meanwhile, SB, I like how you put that.

what I now have a forum? Cool!:D

Rational critcal thinking skills, are not the norm for us(they must be learned), faith based belife, or belief based on subjective evidance, actualy pulls more weight with the human beast.

I dunno about that one. I've never found that to be true, personally, and I've never been interested in being friends with people who operate that way. I find that most people are pretty rational whenever they want to be.


Look towards the irrationlity of racism, or religous intolarance, heh indeed look towards the fear of the Atheist in condemeing religoin for it's irrational thought.

It's not irrational for an atheist to condemn the irrational faith espoused by many religions. There are a lot of concrete reasons why somebody should be concerned about blind faith. You, personally, may not share those concerns, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily irrational or grounded in irrational fears.



Look at the sphere of nationalism, or pride in ones city, or country of birth. All of these are ideas and belifes with nor rational thought behind them.
How do you figure?

There are plenty of rational reasons to take pride in one's home. For instance, my parents are very involved in their community, and have been for nearly 20 years now, so I think it is perfectly rational for them to take pride in their city. It's just as rational as how my mother takes pride in her gardens.

There are rational reasons to be proud of one's country. There are also irrational reasons. But it's quite possible for a person to have city/state/national pride without it being irrational in the least.

This is a forum specifically designated for unbiased political discussion which should be free to all topics and should allow minority groups like Christians and Muslims and others to post here as much as everyone else that way we have diversity in opinion thus keeping the forum alive with exciting and new debates. Enough of these childish accusations and flames. Lets face it you were flame baiting in an attempt to get this thread locked so no one else would want to hear what this man has to say about religion because he disagrees with you. You may correct me if your wrong.


MINORITIES? OK, maybe religious folks are minorities on NS, but not anywhere else as far as I know.


You know what someone ought to do? Tally up the number of assinine religious flamewar threads on NS General. It seems you can't go two seconds on NS General without some dude posting another ontological rant. It usually goes something like this:

Hi, I'm an atheist and all you Christians should be put to sleep because your God does not exist!"

F'real. There are other issues we could be discussing you know. They might even be more important than ontological squabbling. Let me list some:

Human slavery
Genocide in Darfur
The war on Islamic extremism
Encroachment of Governments on our Civil Liberties in the name of fighting the aforementioned war.


Just to name a few.

what I now have a forum? Cool!:D

No, Ifreann. I was just referencin you for BTW.

BTW (stupid Peep), I'm now a lurker on your stinkin' forum, If. Why do I hang out with you people?

Meanwhile, SB, I like how you put that.

Why thank you good sir. :)

That's why i'm not an atheist. *nods*
I simply don't whore my soul and will out to any run-of-the-mill despotic, qliphotic entity that might fill in the blanks of stuff i'll have to wait to find out or have resolved by inevitability.

Really man! Why do we need to know the unknowable so badly anyway?

Heheh yeah I have heard that one before. A little tale for ya.

Once I was a Pagan, and during this time in my life activly practiced magic along with my fellow Pagans, one of which is a great friend of mine who I shall call BD.

Now many years later BD is a commited Atheist, and when we talk about the things we have seen and done together he totaly denies it, when I push him on the subject, he goes 'Ohh yeah that was just mass hallucination'

When I question his reasons for being Atheist and he gives me the whole speil about faith and irrationality, and rational though etc... I ask him, 'So you have proof that the things you and I have seen and done in the past together were mass hallucination?'

Of course he has none, but he has to have some reason to belive what he does(or if you prefer he must have some reason for his lack of belife in things 'supernatural') so he picks the only seemingly rational idea that fits, whilst all the time denying both the evidance of his senses, and the irrationality of this halluciantion reasosning(irrational, coz he has no proof).

Rational critcal thinking skills, are not the norm for us(they must be learned), faith based belife, or belief based on subjective evidance, actualy pulls more weight with the human beast.

Look towards the irrationlity of racism, or religous intolarance, heh indeed look towards the fear of the Atheist in condemeing religoin for it's irrational thought. Look at the sphere of nationalism, or pride in ones city, or country of birth. All of these are ideas and belifes with nor rational thought behind them.


Interesting. It's amazing, the lengths people will go to to dismiss anything that they themselves have witnessed but cannot explain without reaching into the hallucination bag (or even the "That was Jesus/The Devil/Allah/Krishna" bag) as the only possibility. I mean, yes, we should not dismiss the possiblitiies but I don't see why the rational and irrational cannot coexist...

F'real. There are other issues we could be discussing you know. They might even be more important than ontological squabbling. Let me list some:

Human slavery
Genocide in Darfur
The war on Islamic extremism
Encroachment of Governments on our Civil Liberties in the name of fighting the aforementioned war.


Just to name a few.

Well, we can't really talk about Islamic extremism without talking about religion, can we? ;)

Besides, just because there are more important issues doesn't mean we can't talk about more trivial matters as well. Oh, and I don't think I've seen anyone (with the possible exception of UB) wanting to euthanise Christians.

MINORITIES? OK, maybe religious folks are minorities on NS, but not anywhere else as far as I know.Well, that depends on whether you just look at official religious group membership, or at actual belief.

(with the possible exception of UB) Hey now!

Yet surely if God is omniscient, he would be aware of those who believe in him solely on such grounds, and hence disregard their conviction.

Yet surely if God is omniscient, he would be aware of those who believe in him solely on such grounds, and hence disregard their conviction.??

It is a very good argument for cynical opportunism in religious thinking but very little else. If God does exist and is omnipotent, he will undoubtedly see through your little ruse and condemn you to where ever it is he sends sinners these days...probably the premiere of Lindsey Lohan's latest 'film'.

I'd rather burn in Hell.

dam the guy who posted this dumb for even starting it. 1. its just a stupid thought 2. he got flamed the shit out of

dam the guy who posted this dumb for even starting it. 1. its just a stupid thought 2. he got flamed the shit out of

It's not stupid, it's just not a valid argument. And I didn't really see any flames, just people pointing out that it's not a valid argument.

Well, there's your post, but otherwise, I think he fared pretty well.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Then you think wrong.

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

Meh.

Besides why the assumption that there is anything to lose if 'God' exists but one does not believe in it?

Perhaps it's like that book I read a long time ago (I think it was called 'On A Pale Horse') where when death came for the dying guy he said he didn't believe in the afterlife so when Death tried to take his soul it dissolved into nothing.

Also why the assumption that God would be a 'he'?

Perhaps it's like that book I read a long time ago (I think it was called 'On A Pale Horse') where when death came for the dying guy he said he didn't believe in the afterlife so when Death tried to take his soul it dissolved into nothing.So if one doesn't believe in afterlife, one doesn't die?

Pascal's wager is a rather poor reason for belief in God, for the simple fact that thinking only of your own salvation is quite selfish, and God would definitely know about it, being God and all.

As well, who's to say that God only considers belief when judging you? If you live a good life, help those around you, are kind, etc. while remaing atheist, then you have just as good a chance of getting on God's good side as if you simply believed in him.

You can't really use scripture to back up any claims on spirituality, since God, being ineffable and all, could have "sent" the Bible to test us: those that blindly followed, or followed for personal gain, would "fail" the test, and those who were good people regardless of faith while resisting the "temptation" of the Bible would "pass" the test.

You, me. Sex. Now.

Seriously, that's an awesome idea. The bible was put on earth to test our abillity to remain good people despite negative influence.

So if one doesn't believe in afterlife, one doesn't die?

I read that book, too. It's badass. It's the first of something like six books, I think.


But what happened was death came and took the guy's soul and since the guy was an athiest, his soul wouldn't accept being taken to heaven or hell, and dissolved into oblivion just as the guy believed it would.

Heaven and hell still existed, as well as the other major religious afterlives, and you basically went where you believed in, and the more people that believed in it, the stronger the religion and afterlife and deity got.

So if one doesn't believe in afterlife, one doesn't die?

No, according to that reasoning one just does not go to an afterlife, but dissolves into nothingness.

The only problem with that argument is that you can't "choose" belief... so the most you can do is pretend, which would probably piss off any deity even more.

No, according to that reasoning one just does not go to an afterlife, but dissolves into nothingness.Didn't Death dissolve into nothingness here?

So if one doesn't believe in afterlife, one doesn't die?

no, in the book if you didn't believe in the afterlife you no longer existed once you died.

I read that book, too. It's badass. It's the first of something like six books, I think.


But what happened was death came and took the guy's soul and since the guy was an athiest, his soul wouldn't accept being taken to heaven or hell, and dissolved into oblivion just as the guy believed it would.

Heaven and hell still existed, as well as the other major religious afterlives, and you basically went where you believed in, and the more people that believed in it, the stronger the religion and afterlife and deity got.

It's been a long time since I've read it but it was a great read. I loved the way science and magic was mixed together. I should check out the other books. Did you read them all?

You, me. Sex. Now.

Seriously, that's an awesome idea. The bible was put on earth to test our abillity to remain good people despite negative influence.you mean, despite its negative influence?

no, in the book if you didn't believe in the afterlife you no longer existed once you died.what book?

Didn't Death dissolve into nothingness here?


No, sorry, I worded that poorly.

what book?


The book 'On A Pale Horse' (I think was the name) which I referenced (in the quote of mine that you responded to) when I brought up the story about the guys soul dissolving when death tried to take it.

Heheh yeah I have heard that one before. A little tale for ya.

Once I was a Pagan, and during this time in my life activly practiced magic along with my fellow Pagans, one of which is a great friend of mine who I shall call BD.

Now many years later BD is a commited Atheist, and when we talk about the things we have seen and done together he totaly denies it, when I push him on the subject, he goes 'Ohh yeah that was just mass hallucination'

When I question his reasons for being Atheist and he gives me the whole speil about faith and irrationality, and rational though etc... I ask him, 'So you have proof that the things you and I have seen and done in the past together were mass hallucination?'

Of course he has none, but he has to have some reason to belive what he does(or if you prefer he must have some reason for his lack of belife in things 'supernatural') so he picks the only seemingly rational idea that fits, whilst all the time denying both the evidance of his senses, and the irrationality of this halluciantion reasosning(irrational, coz he has no proof).



doesnt this depend on what spells you were casting and what their perceived results were?

if we are willing to dismiss katganistan's story about praying for her friend's recovery, we cant be expected to think your friend delusional for dismissing these spells without at least an explanation of what they were and why they couldnt be dismissed and remain rational.

So...you suggest believing in something...

Because you won't lose anything if you do?

Yeah...


That's probably the worst argument for religion I've ever heard that doesn't involve some historical dude kicking the bucket.

Yet surely if God is omniscient, he would be aware of those who believe in him solely on such grounds, and hence disregard their conviction.

One sweet post. *bows*

You, me. Sex. Now.Behind the pew, in the baptismal pool, or right there on the altar?

Seriously, that's an awesome idea. The bible was put on earth to test our abillity to remain good people despite negative influence.
It is a much better argument about it than just saying it's a "collective message of love".

You, me. Sex. Now.

Seriously, that's an awesome idea. The bible was put on earth to test our abillity to remain good people despite negative influence.

Intriguing possibility, but you might want to modify your statement to mean negative influence of any origin, even the Bible. I say this because if you are going to put the Bible on trial for its influence, then yes those who claimed to work in its name did things like the Inquisition and slavery, but they also did things like the Underground Railroad, invented the notion of civil rights for indigenous (sp?) Native Americans, saved Jews from the Nazis, etc. The Bible, like all fundamentally human (whatever its origin) things, shows us and inspires us to be both our best and our worst

No, according to that reasoning one just does not go to an afterlife, but dissolves into nothingness.

Only if you believe it will.

Only if you believe it will.

And if I believe I will spend eternity between the legs of a young Jessica Simpson?

Intriguing possibility, but you might want to modify your statement to mean negative influence of any origin, even the Bible. I say this because if you are going to put the Bible on trial for its influence, then yes those who claimed to work in its name did things like the Inquisition and slavery, but they also did things like the Underground Railroad, invented the notion of civil rights for indigenous (sp?) Native Americans, saved Jews from the Nazis, etc. The Bible, like all fundamentally human (whatever its origin) things, shows us and inspires us to be both our best and our worst

Underground Railroad: Simply attempting to reverse, in a minority, what the majority of people have done (which, as you said, was also 'work in its name').

Civil Rights for Native Americans: Specifically for natives? *shrugs* I don't know enough about that, but I doubt it was spearheaded by a church. Rather, it was most likely done by someone who was simply a good person, and happened to consider himself a christian. Though again, I don't know enough about it to even assume it was a christian.

Saved Jews from the Nazis: While the church silently approved of the holocaust, for which (I believe) they've apologized for (which doesn't make it any better).



I tend to hold to the quote that states something along these lines: "While it's true that no matter what, good men will be good and evil men will be evil, it requires the intervention of religion for good men to do evil."

And if I believe I will spend eternity between the legs of a young Jessica Simpson?

Then hallelujah!

Praise the holiest of altars.

Then hallelujah!

Praise the holiest of altars.

Death: "Great. Another guy that think heaven is Jessica Simpson's pants. It's getting crowded down there and I'll be damned if I'm going to create another one of her lest she start talking about chicken and oceans."

She is sooooo fine, but she's one of those girls you want to say "shhhhh". /mysogyny

It's been a long time since I've read it but it was a great read. I loved the way science and magic was mixed together. I should check out the other books. Did you read them all?

Indeed I have. The last two focus on God and Satan (who is, apparently, not that bad a guy - largely misunderstood). God is, through this whole series of books, preoccupied with trying to comprehend himself. He's been incapacitated by his curiousity, and has gotten himself stuck into an infinite loop where he basically put himself in a coma of self-absorbsion. The last book is about replacing God.

There's a book for Death, Fate, War, Nature, Time, Satan, and God. I think that's all of them.


Badass books.

If you like this series, you should also check out Piers Anthony's "Tarot". Make sure to get the compiled version, rather than the three or four individual books.

Death: "Great. Another guy that think heaven is Jessica Simpson's pants. It's getting crowded down there and I'll be damned if I'm going to create another one of her lest she start talking about chicken and oceans."

She is sooooo fine, but she's one of those girls you want to say "shhhhh". /mysogyny

This is true. She's not the smartest chicken in the sea.

This is true. She's not the smartest chicken in the sea.

OF, my friend, OF. How dare you blaspheme the name of the all-holy tuna?

OF, my friend, OF. How dare you blaspheme the name of the all-holy tuna?

... *cries* I had Starkist last night...

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

should'nt that be the other way round?

you should not beleive in god...

if he exists, he'll forgive, unless he's an utter shit
if he doesn't, you not blinkering your life with religion

If you believe in god.....

If he exists, you gain
If he doesn't, you don't lose anything


I think this is a very good argument for religion

I'm sure someone's pointed this out before this, but here goes.

1) You believe in god and he doesn't exist. You're fucked out of your Sunday mornings and waste time feeling guilty over crap that doesn't matter. You end up wasting much of the precious time you had on earth for nothing. You lose.

2) You believe in god and he doesn't care. Same result as above.

3) You believe in the wrong god. The real one gets pissed off and smites your ass into hell for eternity. Presumably he might spare those who didn't worship anything because they honestly didn't have enough information to make a rational decision on who or what to worship.

Pascal's wager is just as stupid now as it was back then.

I'm sure someone's pointed this out before this, but here goes.

1) You believe in god and he doesn't exist. You're fucked out of your Sunday mornings and waste time feeling guilty over crap that doesn't matter. You end up wasting much of the precious time you had on earth for nothing. You lose.

2) You believe in god and he doesn't care. Same result as above.

3) You believe in the wrong god. The real one gets pissed off and smites your ass into hell for eternity. Presumably he might spare those who didn't worship anything because they honestly didn't have enough information to make a rational decision on who or what to worship.

Pascal's wager is just as stupid now as it was back then.
And now the thread is way unbalanced, what with no Jesussaves rebuttal. :(

And now the thread is way unbalanced, what with no Jesussaves rebuttal. :(

You say that as if balance should be the ultimate goal of every debate...

You say that as if balance should be the ultimate goal of every debate...

Well, it's not the balance i so appreciate, as much as it is the futile and entertaining attempts to make so. :)