NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6698753.stm
The spokesperson for children's rights in Poland, Ewa Sowinska, singled out Tinky Winky, the purple character with a triangular aerial on his head.

"I noticed he was carrying a woman's handbag," she told a magazine. "At first, I didn't realise he was a boy."

EU officials have criticised Polish government policy towards homosexuals.

Ms Sowinska wants the psychologists to make a recommendation about whether the children's show should be broadcast on public television.

Poland's authorities have recently initiated a series of moves to outlaw the promotion of homosexuality among the nation's children.

Tinky Winky's psychological evaluation is being treated fairly light-heartedly by many people here.

One radio station asked its listeners to vote for the most suspicious children's show. Some e-mailed in, saying that Winnie the Pooh had only male friends.

Even Ms Sowinska has backtracked a little, insisting that she does not believe the Teletubbies is a threat to the nation's children. But the evaluation is still going ahead and her office can recommend that the show should be taken off the air.

Poland was criticised recently after its education ministry announced plans to sack teachers who promote homosexuality.

Last month the European Union singled out Poland for criticism in its resolution condemning homophobia in the 27-member bloc.

I've started to take quite a dislike to the Polish government's approach to catholicism and social conservatism (including gay rights and abortion). I suspect it may be something of a reaction to the communists and their anti-religion policy, but these things have got to find a limit of some sort. Poland is developing into Europe's Kansas, complete with denial of evolution (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,446307,00.html).

We have one or two Poles on the forum. Do you see it around you? Can you explain it? Or is it just the government being off its rocker?

After reading about the effort to declare Christ as the King of Poland; I am not surprised.

I've started to take quite a dislike to the Polish government's approach to catholicism and social conservatism (including gay rights and abortion). I suspect it may be something of a reaction to the communists and their anti-religion policy, but these things have got to find a limit of some sort. Poland is developing into Europe's Kansas, complete with denial of evolution (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,446307,00.html).

We have one or two Poles on the forum. Do you see it around you? Can you explain it? Or is it just the government being off its rocker?

Meh. I'm no pole, but I guess that the poles are getting what they wanted (or, at least, what the majority wanted) when they choose to have two ultra-right twins ruling the country.
As far as I know, Poland has never been exactly a lighthouse of human rights. Remember how the polish jews lived even before the Nazi invasion. And what happened to the jews who survived the Holocaust and tried to come back to their own homes.

I wonder if it has been a good idea to let Poland into EU; expecially, since Poland has begun advocating the lifting of the ban on death penalty.:rolleyes:

After reading about the effort to declare Christ as the King of Poland; I am not surprised.

*snickers*

"So where is the king today?"

"I don't know he really hasn't come in since he received the crown."

"Great, we give the highest honor in the land and the man doesn't even show up."

Had to be done. :D

Just another example of Europe's slow but real return to conservatism.

After reading about the effort to declare Christ as the King of Poland; I am not surprised.

Ohh... so they can start a pogrom against "perfidos iudaeos" because of both deicide and regicide!

Just another example of Europe's slow but real return to conservatism.

Right... cause Poland of all places represents Europe.... :rolleyes:

Deo gracia

Right... cause Poland of all places represents Europe.... :rolleyes:

France = elected Sarkozy
Germany = elected Merkel

Do we see a pattern?

"Europe is the faith and the faith is Europe, she will return to the faith or she will perish"

Unless of coarse to you Europe is just a plot of land not her cultural, historical and religous heritage.

"Europe is the faith and the faith is Europe, she will return to the faith or she will perish"

Unless of coarse to you Europe is just a plot of land not her cultural, historical and religous heritage.

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Oh, prescious.
We gots ourselves a new religious troll, folks.

France = elected Sarkozy
Germany = elected Merkel

Do we see a pattern?

Well, as far as Germany goes, the pattern seems to be one of the right slowly turning into the left, and the left being more to the right than the actual right.

This is what happens when you forget them.

Poland's going through something of a brain drain at the minute. Hopefully a fix in the European economic situation will result in the academics returning there and restoring reasonable order.

Ok a few Things on Poland:
1, It has a very conservative government right now mostly representing the East of the country. ( most of the young progressive people are living in other countries and may find it hard to vote)

2, The Idea of Christ Being Made king Is not A silly as it sounds as Mary his mother has been Queen for a few hundred years already!

3, Most polish people view their political situation as a bit a farce right now and wouldn't agree with the anti euro conservative agenda that the government has established.

The Next Time Your In Poland Go duck Hunting as the Twin brothers
(president and Prime minister) are named ducks!!:sniper:

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Oh, prescious.
We gots ourselves a new religious troll, folks.

guess so.

France = elected Sarkozy
Germany = elected Merkel

Do we see a pattern?

Italy=Prodi
Spain=Zapatero.

No. We don't.

Poland moving backwards

And this is news to someone exactly because...? :rolleyes:

The Idea of Christ Being Made king Is not A silly as it sounds as Mary his mother has been Queen for a few hundred years already!

Incest, FTW? :eek:

Judging by the Poles I know personally (All immigrants living in Germany, obviously), most - actually, all - of whom have a strong tendency of being smart and perfectly decent people, I think the conclusion is inevitable - all the smart and good ones fled their country (Germany, England, Ireland...). The ones who don't fit the bill are about to breed themselves into subsapience, forming a new species of great ape to populate eastern Europe.

On a more serious note, though, Poland is merely the most extreme example of the resurgence of barbarism - in terms of science, conservative politics & the likes, it can be seen all throughout Europe, just not even nearly as extreme.

That Poland also features a lack in diplomatic tact that's simple astounding is another matter, of course. But actually, I rather like it - for once, it's not Germany making the mistake. Now, if we could just cut off their funding, that'd be ace...

"Europe is the faith and the faith is Europe, she will return to the faith or she will perish"

Unless of coarse to you Europe is just a plot of land not her cultural, historical and religous heritage.

Religious? Ok... then, why should the jewish (middle-eastern) and christian (middle-eastern, again) heritage be more influential than the Greco-Roman pantheon, or the Celtic pantheon, or the Germanic pantheon, or the Slavic pantheon?

:rolleyes:

Expecially, since we call this continent "Europa", from the namesake nymph who was screwed by Jupiter in the form of a white bull. :D

Laudes Iovi Optimo Maximo (et kai etera).

Just another example of Europe's slow but real return to conservatism.

So Conservatism = ignorance, fear, bigotry, backwardness and general asshatery.

Ok then.

3, Most polish people view their political situation as a bit a farce right now and wouldn't agree with the anti euro conservative agenda that the government has established.


Well, that's better. The sooner the poles will get rid of them ducks, the better.

The ones who don't fit the bill are about to breed themselves into subsapience, forming a new species of great ape to populate eastern Europe.

From my point of view Poland is Central Europe. :p Otherwise agreed... evolution in motion? Scary.

They want metal weights tying to their goolies.

Incest, FTW? :eek:

What disrespectful prophanity comes from your mouth, have you never heard of a Queen Mother?

Religious? Ok... then, why should the jewish (middle-eastern) and christian (middle-eastern, again) heritage be more influential than the Greco-Roman pantheon, or the Celtic pantheon, or the Germanic pantheon, or the Slavic pantheon?

:rolleyes:

Expecially, since we call this continent "Europa", from the namesake nymph who was screwed by Jupiter in the form of a white bull. :D

Laudes Iovi Optimo Maximo (et kai etera).

Because of the Battle of Milvian bridge.

Expecially, since we call this continent "Europa", from the namesake nymph who was screwed by Jupiter in the form of a white bull. :D

Depends what myth you believe - the one I heard, she was carried to the shores of what is now known as Europe by the white bull Zeus (Ancient Greece predates Ancient Rome :p), but when Zeus got back to "screw her", he was humanoid shape. :p

What disrespectful prophanity comes from your mouth, have you never heard of a Queen Mother?

Queen Elizabeth of Britain, right? Died a few years ago, I think.

But hey, just think of it: king + queen = princesses and princes. Hence reproduction, hence incest if the queen and king are mother and son. You never heard of Oidipus? :p

Queen Elizabeth of Britain, right? Died a few years ago, I think.

But hey, just think of it: king + queen = princesses and princes. Hence reproduction, hence incest if the queen and king are mother and son. You never heard of Oidipus? :p

The Queen Mother of heaven our lady is the spouse of the holy spirit, she does not have incest with her most chaste son our Lord Jesus Christ, she is ever Virgin Queen.

Because of the Battle of Milvian bridge.

So, the validity of a religion is defined by "what is the religion of the winner of the coup d'etat" ?

I guess you are creating a new sort of theology here.:p
Or do you believe actually to that "in hoc signo vinces" BS invented by the winner? Maybe you also think that the Donatio Constantini isn't a medieval forgery...

Next time, you'll be trying to destroy Athen's Parthenon, just to eliminate to material proof of the non-christian Europe. Wasn't enough to burn the library of Alexandria?

So, the validity of a religion is defined by "what is the religion of the winner of the coup d'etat" ?

I guess you are creating a new sort of theology here.:p
Or do you believe actually to that "in hoc signo vinces" BS invented by the winner? Maybe you also think that the Donatio Constantini isn't a medieval forgery...

Next time, you'll be trying to destroy Athen's Parthenon, just to eliminate to material proof of the non-christian Europe. Wasn't enough to burn the library of Alexandria?

Yes i believe the result of the battle of milvian bridge was due to divine intervention, wether or not the donation of Constantine was forged which i confess it probably was the donation of Pepin would remain valid thus either way the Roman Pontiff is the lawful sovereign of the Papal States rueling Umbria the Marches Romagna and Rome.

I would not destroy Athens Parthenon it is a symbol of man searching for God before the illumination of Christianity came amongst those pagan peoples, it is important to preserve the fact that they had searched for God.

But hey, just think of it: king + queen = princesses and princes. Hence reproduction, hence incest if the queen and king are mother and son. You never heard of Oidipus? :pPerfectly appropriate for ultra-catholic countries. After all, incest gave rise to mankind - twice (Well, unless my signature is a more correct account of the happenings around Noah's time than the bible is, anyway). And as inheritance & mutantion problems coming from breeding with sis are a filthy lies told by scientists...

's long as your siblings don't share your gender, breed ahoi!

Depends what myth you believe - the one I heard, she was carried to the shores of what is now known as Europe by the white bull Zeus (Ancient Greece predates Ancient Rome :p), but when Zeus got back to "screw her", he was humanoid shape. :p

"Jupiter"="Zeus(,Dios)"="Iuppiter(,Iovis)" in english. Nyah.

Anyway, I prefer to believe to the "bull screws nymph" story, it is more pornographic.:cool:

The Queen Mother of heaven our lady is the spouse of the holy spirit, she does not have incest with her most chaste son our Lord Jesus Christ, she is ever Virgin Queen.

Holy Spirit = The Son = The Father. Three aspects of a trinity. Unless you adhere to Arianism, that is.

Also, there is no hint in the Gospel about the "chastity" of Jesus.

she is ever Virgin Queen.

1. It's not a crown in the iconography, it's a halo.

2. God screwed her to beget Jesus, so she can't have been a virgin. Plus she got other kids after Jesus, so even if she didn't lose her hyphen with god, she's certainly no virgin anymore. Plus she's dead. :p

Yes i believe the result of the battle of milvian bridge was due to divine intervention, wether or not the donation of Constantine was forged which i confess it probably was the donation of Pepin would remain valid thus either way the Roman Pontiff is the lawful sovereign of the Papal States rueling Umbria the Marches Romagna and Rome.

Hence:

Since the Papal army lost at Porta Pia, thus ending his rulership on central Italy, either:
1) he and the Roman Church lost the favour of God
2) the forces of Satan, embodied by the italian Bersaglieri, are stronger than the forces of God.

Leave God out of politics. If not because of rationality, because of respect - respect of God, not of politics, that is.

The Queen Mother of heaven our lady is the spouse of the holy spirit, she does not have incest with her most chaste son our Lord Jesus Christ, she is ever Virgin Queen.

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Wonderful! This is getting better every minute! I haven't laughed this hard in ages. Do go on, please!

"Jupiter"="Zeus(,Dios)"="Iuppiter(,Iovis)" in english. Nyah.

Anyway, I prefer to believe to the "bull screws nymph" story, it is more pornographic.:cool:

I like the Zeus the Eagle and Ganymede story, myself.

Holy Spirit = The Son = The Father. Three aspects of a trinity. Unless you adhere to Arianism, that is.

Also, there is no hint in the Gospel about the "chastity" of Jesus.

No i am not an Arian Heretic i believe in the hypostatic union of our redeemer that he is both true God and true man, but note our lady is the spouse of one person of the trinity even though all three members of the trinity are consubstantial or of the same substance, She is the daughter of God the Father in so far as we are all children of God, the spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of God the son.

There is No hint in the gospel that Christ is anything but chaste and i cannot help but think a relationship if he had one would be mentioned in the gospels since the gospels even bother to mention that St. Peter had a step mother, also we know that both St. John the Baptist probably influenced by the essense and St. Paul where Chaste, so why not Christ especially if St. John the Baptists was prepareing the way for Christ?

2. God screwed her to beget Jesus, so she can't have been a virgin. Plus she got other kids after Jesus, so even if she didn't lose her hyphen with god, she's certainly no virgin anymore. Plus she's dead. :p

Didn't you know God has teleporting spermatozoa?

I like the Zeus the Eagle and Ganymede story, myself.

Whoa... bestial gay porno with gods...:cool:

Didn't you know God has teleporting spermatozoa?

LMAO! XD

As soon as science either produces a sample or can duplicate the phenomena, I'll believe that. ;)

1. It's not a crown in the iconography, it's a halo.

2. God screwed her to beget Jesus, so she can't have been a virgin. Plus she got other kids after Jesus, so even if she didn't lose her hyphen with god, she's certainly no virgin anymore. Plus she's dead. :p

God can have a child concieved within the womb of a woman by other means then of the sexual act, you put limits on the divine my friend. The rendering of Brothers in scripture comes from a loose greek word that can mean cousins or relatives as well.

Whoa... bestial gay porno with gods...:cool:

The Greek Mythos is full of interesting stuff... read up on Minotaur - it doesn't even have to involve gods. :D

No i am not an Arian Heretic i believe in the hypostatic union of our redeemer that he is both true God and true man, but note our lady is the spouse of one person of the trinity even though all three members of the trinity are consubstantial or of the same substance, She is the daughter of God the Father in so far as we are all children of God, the spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of God the son.

There is No hint in the gospel that Christ is anything but chaste and i cannot help but think a relationship if he had one would be mentioned in the gospels since the gospels even bother to mention that St. Peter had a step mother, also we know that both St. John the Baptist probably influenced by the essense and St. Paul where Chaste, so why not Christ especially if St. John the Baptists was prepareing the way for Christ?

Oh, there's more than one hint. One example would be that he was called "Rabbi" by his followers. In Jesus' days, you couldn't become a rabbi unless you were married.

2. God screwed her to beget Jesus, so she can't have been a virgin. Plus she got other kids after Jesus, so even if she didn't lose her hyphen with god, she's certainly no virgin anymore. Plus she's dead. :pWell, she just got pregnant - but, God's not-omnipotence in the bible aside, his features suggest that he's capable of causing the pregnancy of a target without engaging in sexual activities per se - hell, we can do it. In vitro ftw.

So that's not too unreasonable.

And as far as I know, catholic doctrine considers all of Mary's pregnancies to have happened in the same, non-sexual way. Of course, there's issues with this (I.e. mistranslations from hebrew to greek), and the vast majority of catholic theologicians will agree that the whole myth is bullshit (At least, the ones I talked to did). It's just kept, anyway.

But that's little to do with Poland being stuck in thirteenhundred and forty-nine.

In Jesus' days, you couldn't become a rabbi unless you were married.

Then again, maybe he had been hitched to some broad, but never banged her because he was gay and had a lot of male groupies to have fun with. ;)

Unfortunately I have to run now (damn real life), but I've subscribed to the thread, so I'll check back later.

Have fun! :D

Hence:

Since the Papal army lost at Porta Pia, thus ending his rulership on central Italy, either:
1) he and the Roman Church lost the favour of God
2) the forces of Satan, embodied by the italian Bersaglieri, are stronger than the forces of God.

Leave God out of politics. If not because of rationality, because of respect - respect of God, not of politics, that is.

Have you not heard the devil is the prince of this world? The preservation of the Order of Christ in this world Christendom can only reign to the effect that Christ governs the hearts of men the sign that the Papal states were forceibly seized from Bl. Pope Pius IX signifys a shift in that the hearts of men where now so far estranged from God that they seized by satan and the evil force of nationalism seized the papal states forcibly. Also it can be interpreted to mean that God wanted a papacy that would become more involved spiritually speaking due to its loss of temporal power.

No i am not an Arian Heretic i believe in the hypostatic union of our redeemer that he is both true God and true man, but note our lady is the spouse of one person of the trinity even though all three members of the trinity are consubstantial or of the same substance, She is the daughter of God the Father in so far as we are all children of God, the spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of God the son.
Actually, the hypostatical union of the three persons is so strong (at least, from what I remember about catholic theology) that they are a single being. If it wasn't so, Catholicism would be a polytheism, and not a monotheism.


There is No hint in the gospel that Christ is anything but chaste

But there is no hint of the contrary, either. Remember that it would be most unlikely for a jew, 2000 years ago, to be a single at age 30.

Also, you're using "chastity" as a positive attribution. But, afaik, the first commandements of God to humanity (in the Genesis) are about "growing and multiplicating" (or something like that), hence, "eat and have sex".

Well, she just got pregnant - but, God's not-omnipotence in the bible aside, his features suggest that he's capable of causing the pregnancy of a target without engaging in sexual activities per se - hell, we can do it. In vitro ftw.

So that's not too unreasonable.

And as far as I know, catholic doctrine considers all of Mary's pregnancies to have happened in the same, non-sexual way. Of course, there's issues with this (I.e. mistranslations from hebrew to greek), and the vast majority of catholic theologicians will agree that the whole myth is bullshit (At least, the ones I talked to did). It's just kept, anyway.

But that's little to do with Poland being stuck in thirteenhundred and forty-nine.

Orthodox Catholic Doctrine Considers Christ ot have been an only Child theologians who say otherwise are in disagreement with the church and are dangerous heretics who parade falsehood and heresy as truth.

2. God screwed her to beget Jesus, so she can't have been a virgin. Plus she got other kids after Jesus, so even if she didn't lose her hyphen with god, she's certainly no virgin anymore. Plus she's dead. :p

wouldn't she have lost her hymen (not her "-" :p) when she gave birth to jesus?

don't which news title better
BBC's 'Poland targets 'gay' Teletubbies' or
MSNDC 'Uh-oh! Teletubbies under gay probe again
Poland official warned department may be turned into 'laughing stock'

Actually, the hypostatical union of the three persons is so strong (at least, from what I remember about catholic theology) that they are a single being. If it wasn't so, Catholicism would be a polytheism, and not a monotheism.



But there is no hint of the contrary, either. Remember that it would be most unlikely for a jew, 2000 years ago, to be a single at age 30.

Also, you're using "chastity" as a positive attribution. But, afaik, the first commandements of God to humanity (in the Genesis) are about "growing and multiplicating" (or something like that), hence, "eat and have sex".

Yes they are one being but three persons.

The essene sect which was active at the time of Christ was a celibate sect he coulod have been influenced from there.

Have you not heard the devil is the prince of this world? The preservation of the Order of Christ in this world Christendom can only reign to the effect that Christ governs the hearts of men the sign that the Papal states were forceibly seized from Bl. Pope Pius IX signifys a shift in that the hearts of men where now so far estranged from God that they seized by satan and the evil force of nationalism seized the papal states forcibly. Also it can be interpreted to mean that God wanted a papacy that would become more involved spiritually speaking due to its loss of temporal power.

Or maybe: "Da mihi animas, caetera tolle".

So, fuck the Papal States. Fuck the papal executionners. Fuck the inquisition. Fuck the papal army.

And, of course, Viva Garibaldi!:D

How quickly the thread turned into a discussion on Greek mythology...


As far as I know, Poland has never been exactly a lighthouse of human rights. Remember how the polish jews lived even before the Nazi invasion. And what happened to the jews who survived the Holocaust and tried to come back to their own homes.

Yeah... You forgot to say that each day we go book burning:p
I'm sure that knowing where are you from, I'd be able to find a number of facts You'd start to explain how it wasn't like that, it was different etc.


As for government: it once came to my mind, that what current one lacks in thieving (when compared to former one), it makes up for in stupidity. I, however, am quite optimistic (I tend to think that it could be worse); I just get used to the fact that politicians here are a some kind of different species of man. If You want to know my opinion: the twins are a 'bit' nuts... But at least they have a slight degree of sense what is allowed in politics that cools down more extreme elements.

The education ministry is run by a man who is even more right-wing extreme than Kaczynski twins, but they had to give him some scraps for the coalition to form in the parliament (the other options were: the post-communist left, and a party of the centre with ambitions to rule, that would be natural ally of the twins' own party, but they preferred to side with small parties that would be easier to bully around). As expected, dude makes politics, not education.

I never liked Teletubbies and all the other shows of that type... then again, I've been raised more on Bettlejuice TAS and Batman TAS than anything else...
Do you see it around you?
That whole homophobia seen on the media isn't something that I've seen on the streets... then again, I only saw Polish homosexuals outside the country...
Can you explain it?
Poles are idiots...
Or is it just the government being off its rocker?
The whole politics of Poland is a mess, what's even more surprising, there are people who like the ducks being in charge...
I wonder if it has been a good idea to let Poland into EU
Of course it was... now all right minded Poles can go outside and have a better life while watching Poland slowly die because of negative birth rates :D

Poles are idiots...

Thunk yoo, thir. Ook, ook, ong!

Italy=Prodi
Spain=Zapatero.

No. We don't.

The countries that were liberal are voting conservative, and vice versa.

As far as I know, Poland has never been exactly a lighthouse of human rights.


It was - until the end of XVIII century when it lost its sovereignity to its neighbours. That's why it had the highest Jewish population in Europe.

The countries that were liberal are voting conservative, and vice versa.

Maybe that, yes.
Germany, however, is split in two - this is why Germany has the Grosse Koalition.

How quickly the thread turned into a discussion on Greek mythology...

That's because Greek mythology is far more entertaining than Polish politics, I guess.


Yeah... You forgot to say that each day we go book burning:p

Just to clear up: I'm not anti-polish. I merely report what anyone can find in recent (last 80 years) of polish history. Religious, ultra-catholic right-wing has always been a major force in polish politics, and the twins are just the current impersonators of that.


I'm sure that knowing where are you from, I'd be able to find a number of facts You'd start to explain how it wasn't like that, it was different etc.

:confused:Huh? Are you thinking about fascism? There is no chance I could ever defend that, or claiming that it wasn't worse than anything else, with the possible exception of the German fascism, aka Nazism.


If You want to know my opinion: the twins are a 'bit' nuts... But at least they have a slight degree of sense what is allowed in politics that cools down more extreme elements.

I'd say that the lustracija (spell?) affaire was clearly a missed chance to show some sense...
The twins aren't nuts. They have a plan, a populistic one, and they're following it. And I don't like it.

That's because Greek mythology is far more entertaining than Polish politics, I guess.

Living here, You'd learn that one can either laugh or cry... And when one decides to laugh, it is hilarious here :)

I'd say that the lustracija (spell?) affaire was clearly a missed chance to show some sense...
The twins aren't nuts. They have a plan, a populistic one, and they're following it. And I don't like it.

Spelling is "lustracja". Calling them 'nuts', I had in mind just those moments, when they, normally being quite likeable, leave our world and begin to inhabit a rather different one. And yes, they seem to have a plan, but the "now's my turn to play, others have already ruled" stance is taken by certain Lepper dude (I guess You can wiki him). Their is more like Lenin's, they believe that their plan wis the only way to save Poland, or something.

Maybe that, yes.
Germany, however, is split in two - this is why Germany has the Grosse Koalition.

Leaning conservative, though.

Living here, You'd learn that one can either laugh or cry... And when one decides to laugh, it is hilarious here :)
I know, I've tried to take on the hilarious side the 5 years of Berlusconi's cabinet. Meh...


Their is more like Lenin's, they believe that their plan wis the only way to save Poland, or something.
Don't tell them they're like Lenin or they could have a heart attack... oh, wait, it could be an idea.:D

Don't tell them they're like Lenin or they could have a heart attack...
Yeah, such a thought did linger inside my mind when I was typing this:D

Leaning conservative, though.

Let's see... that makes 2 countries moving form conservative to liberal, one country staying conservative, and one country undecided.
And you manage to see a trend to conservatic politics there.
Fascinating.

Looks like Poland's leadership is going a bit far about the whole gay cartoon thing.

However, I'm still a big fan of Poland; first, for utterly crushing the Germans at the Battle of Grunwald (I can't spell the location in Polish! :D) which destroyed them and the Teutonic Order, which was threatening many states, and second for defending the borders of Europe from the Turks for centuries. Both, I think, changed European history for the better and as such world history for the better. :fluffle:

Looks like Poland's leadership is going a bit far about the whole gay cartoon thing.

However, I'm still a big fan of Poland; first, for utterly crushing the Germans at the Battle of Grunwald (I can't spell the location in Polish! :D) which destroyed them and the Teutonic Order, which was threatening many states, and second for defending the borders of Europe from the Turks for centuries. Both, I think, changed European history for the better and as such world history for the better. :fluffle:

Poland? Turks???? I think someone needs a map. And a history book.
You're thinking of Austria.
Oh, and "Germany" didn't exist in the 15th century. You're thinking of the Teutonic Order (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Order), a group rather similar to the Knights Templar or the Maltesers.

Poland? Turks???? I think someone needs a map. And a history book.
You're thinking of Austria.
Oh, and "Germany" didn't exist in the 15th century. You're thinking of the Teutonic Order (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Order), a group rather similar to the Knights Templar or the Maltesers.

Of course it was pre-unification Germany, geographically. But it was Germany as anyone today would recognize it. The Teutonic Order never recovered from the loss - game over. :p So kudos to Poland for that.

As for keeping the Ottoman Empire at bay, that also happened - the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth's borders extended all the way to Turkish regions, as you can see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rzeczpospolita_1600.png

The Commonwealth was able to hold its own against Sweden, Russia, and vassals of the Ottoman Empire, and at times launched successful expansionist offensives against its neighbors.

Impressive, I'd say. :)

Battle of Grunwald (I can't spell the location in Polish! )

Well, I assure You that You can:D

Poland? Turks???? I think someone needs a map. And a history book.

To be honest, not Thumbless Pete Crabbe. Poland was bordering with Turkey (or Turkish vassal states) for a couple of centuries and had a number of wars with Turkey. Linky (http://historicus.pl/mapy/czas/europaxviiwiek.jpg) - this map is in Polish, but thanks to colours and borders it can be understood.

Well, I assure You that You can:D



To be honest, not Thumbless Pete Crabbe. Poland was bordering with Turkey (or Turkish vassal states) for a couple of centuries and had a number of wars with Turkey. Linky (http://historicus.pl/mapy/czas/europaxviiwiek.jpg) - this map is in Polish, but thanks to colours and borders it can be understood.

I knew I wasn't mis-remembering. Thank you. :)

A better quote from Wikipedia:

In the late 17th century, the weakened Commonwealth under King John III Sobieskiin alliance with the forces of Holy Roman emperor Leopold I dealt the crushing defeats to the Ottoman Empire: in 1683, the Battle of Vienna marked the final turning point in a 250-year struggle between the forces of Christian Europe and the Islamic Ottoman Empire. For its centuries long stance against the Muslim advances, the Commonwealth would gain the name of "Antemurale Christianitatis" (forefront of Christianity).[8] Over the next 16 years (in the "Great Turkish War") the Turks would be permanently driven south of the Danube River, never to threaten central Europe again.

I knew I wasn't mis-remembering. Thank you. :)
No problem. It's nice to see that not everyone considers Poland only a land of antisemites and nationalist fanatics:D

No problem. It's nice to see that not everyone considers Poland only a land of antisemites and nationalist fanatics:D

they'er just odd to me and the only nation to go head to head with tanks on horseback

"You can't destroy the Poles but if you give them power they'll destroy themselves." - Bismarck

"You can't destroy the Poles but if you give them power they'll destroy themselves." - Bismarck

Judging Bismarck by this quote, I'd say he was a genius:D

they'er just odd to me and the only nation to go head to head with tanks on horseback

No, also we Italians attacked the Soviet tanks with our Savoia Cavalleria regiment in Russia. Guess how it ended...:headbang:

No, also we Italians attacked the Soviet tanks with our Savoia Cavalleria regiment in Russia. Guess how it ended...:headbang:To be fair, your horses were probably better than your tanks...

*Runs*

Spelling is "lustracja".
I'd say lustracyjna...

I'm not very happy with this either. I do not suppost the current government, and neither does most of Poland.

they'er just odd to me and the only nation to go head to head with tanks on horseback

That's a myth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Krojanty

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

Oh, prescious.
We gots ourselves a new religious troll, folks.
Yay!
Poland? Turks???? I think someone needs a map. And a history book.
You're thinking of Austria.
Oh, and "Germany" didn't exist in the 15th century. You're thinking of the Teutonic Order (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Order), a group rather similar to the Knights Templar or the Maltesers.

http://www.aussiefavourites.com.au/cornershop/images/maltesers192.jpg?

I'm not very happy with this either. I do not suppost the current government, and neither does most of Poland.Which raises the question of how they were elected, though. Massive protest voting? A massive geographic split, as suggested earlier in this thread (The eastern half votes one thing, the west somethign entirely different)? Sheer corruption (I seem to recall the present administration having certain, erm, issues in this regard)? Completely false pre-election promises? Something completely different?

Whoa... bestial gay porno with gods...:cool:

The Ancient Greeks had that market cornered.

The Greek Mythos is full of interesting stuff... read up on Minotaur - it doesn't even have to involve gods. :D

The Greeks were much nice in their reenactments of that story: All that they did was get a bull and a woman and stick them behind cover. The romans tried to do it for real once.

wouldn't she have lost her hymen (not her "-" :p) when she gave birth to jesus?

Jesus could teleport too!

As for government: it once came to my mind, that what current one lacks in thieving (when compared to former one), it makes up for in stupidity. I, however, am quite optimistic (I tend to think that it could be worse); I just get used to the fact that politicians here are a some kind of different species of man. If You want to know my opinion: the twins are a 'bit' nuts... But at least they have a slight degree of sense what is allowed in politics that cools down more extreme elements.

The education ministry is run by a man who is even more right-wing extreme than Kaczynski twins, but they had to give him some scraps for the coalition to form in the parliament (the other options were: the post-communist left, and a party of the centre with ambitions to rule, that would be natural ally of the twins' own party, but they preferred to side with small parties that would be easier to bully around). As expected, dude makes politics, not education.

Do you think that the release of the former secret records on people is there simply to take the populations mind off the government?

Jesus could teleport too!

This explains why the Bible doesn't have an account of Jesus childhood or adolescence. Jesus was on a wild bender, teleporting to every bar in the known world.

Well, this is coming from the country that wanted (or at least partially wanted) to make Jesus King of Poland (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6200539.stm).

Leaning conservative, though.
I have a feeling there's a whole bunch of people disagreeing with you. Of course, they're busy fighting themselves, their traditional supporters and the unions so they won't get to it any time soon.

But I'm sure as soon as they're finished with that, they'll disagree with you.

To be fair, your horses were probably better than your tanks...

*Runs*
:D

History is coming alive!

This explains why the Bible doesn't have an account of Jesus childhood or adolescence. Jesus was on a wild bender, teleporting to every bar in the known world.

Exactly. His first solid was a mix of beer nuts and rum jelly!

As for keeping the Ottoman Empire at bay, that also happened–the Polish/Lithuanian Commonwealth’s borders extended all the way to Turkish regions, as you can see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rzeczpospolita_1600.png
What the hell happened to Lithuania since then?!

Going from a fairly large state, to a country which even Scotland can beat at football.

This explains why the Bible doesn’t have an account of Jesus childhood or adolescence. Jesus was on a wild bender, teleporting to every bar in the known world.
Jesus Christ is Zaphod Beeblebrox.

Exactly. His first solid was a mix of beer nuts and rum jelly!

Now that's the ultimate start to a life.

Jesus Christ is Zaphod Beeblebrox.

Oh my god.....it's all so clear now!

Vespertilia woudl you agree with this? http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Kaczy%C5%84ski

Which raises the question of how they were elected, though.

False pre-election promises, mostly. The twin duck party calls itself "Law and Justice"; "Prawo i Sprawiedliwosc" in Polish, I propose they call their next enterprise "Party of Honour and Tradition", Stronnictwo Honor i Tradycja :D As in many other democracies, voters in Poland have the unfortunate tendency to rock the boat – people were tired with thieving ways of previous postcommunist government and voted for the right wing and center parties - PiS took 27% promising, of course, law and order, Platforma Obywatelska 24% (Citizen Platform, center party), Samoobrona 11% (Self Defence, populist party), the postcommunists 11% and the conservative catholic party League of Polish Families got 7%. (the REALLY extreme two nationalist parties got 0,29 and 0,06%). After the two month long talks with it natural allies from PO the ducks realized they will not be able to rule Poland as they wanted if their coalition partner has equal strength and they sided with the populists (it seemed previously unthinkable, ducks were amongst the most vehement critics of samoobrona) and the catholic conservatives. Law went through the window and to show the people that they "fight for justice", from time to time they arrest someone, for example the surgeon whose patient died after the surgery, and charge him with murder. Of course charge is later dropped, they did not exchange the judges for their own... yet. And I think they won't.

As a homophobe I always laugh whenever I hear that getting tough on gays is "backward." I am a pro-abortionist but I do not refer to anti-abortionists as "backward". Just like the fops so lionized by the pro-gays , the pro-gays look down on people that do not agree with them.

To be fair, your horses were probably better than your tanks...

*Runs*

Of course. Our horses weren't made by FIAT.:D

As a homophobe...

Huh. You don't get many open bigots on here these days.

Jesus Christ is Zaphod Beeblebrox.

Oh my... if Jesus Christ is Zaphod Beeblebrox, then JC has two heads, hence there is another godly person! THE TRINITY IS A QUATERNITY!

:D

Huh. You don't get many open bigots on here these days.

Where have you been? They're a dime a dozen. Glorius Freedonia is just one of the more ignorable ones, so that's probably why you haven't noticed.

Do you think that the release of the former secret records on people is there simply to take the populations mind off the government?

I'd rather say KaczynskiTwisters (saw this name once in the Web:D) believe what they say about "lustracja" - that is, in their own eyes it is really needed, not just a method of distraction. Of course, many other people think otherwise, and Kaczynskis and their fans (:D) tend to equate them with former agents.

BTW.
lustracja - noun
lustracyjna - adjective
ustawa lustracyjna = parliamentary bill/resolution/whatever to release the former secret records

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6698753.stm


I've started to take quite a dislike to the Polish government's approach to catholicism and social conservatism (including gay rights and abortion). I suspect it may be something of a reaction to the communists and their anti-religion policy, but these things have got to find a limit of some sort. Poland is developing into Europe's Kansas, complete with denial of evolution (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,446307,00.html).

We have one or two Poles on the forum. Do you see it around you? Can you explain it? Or is it just the government being off its rocker?

Now wait just a damn minute here. If Poland were to outlaw, let's say, Christian influence on children, you'd all be happy and throwing parties, and saying how great it is. But they are outlawing a different type of brainwashing and you are pissed? Hypocrisy much?

I say good on Poland for stopping brainwashing schemes by the homosexuals.

I say good on Poland for stopping brainwashing schemes by the homosexuals.

Every time I read something like this, I can't decide whether to laugh hysterically or go down crying for shame.

Shift into neutral, and then shift into drive.

Next time, you'll be trying to destroy Athen's Parthenon, just to eliminate to material proof of the non-christian Europe. Wasn't enough to burn the library of Alexandria?

Erm erm, the library of Alexandria was not destroyed by christian fanatics, or whatever you are saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

Where have you been? They're a dime a dozen. Glorius Freedonia is just one of the more ignorable ones, so that's probably why you haven't noticed.

I've been away. But I do suppose a visual immunity is developed after a while.

If Poland were to outlaw, let's say, Christian influence on children, you'd all be happy and throwing parties, and saying how great it is.
Ahem...where exactly do you get this gem of info from? For all you know I could be Father Bob (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1zZuBtwL8) from Melbourne.

Now wait just a damn minute here. If Poland were to outlaw, let's say, Christian influence on children, you'd all be happy and throwing parties, and saying how great it is. But they are outlawing a different type of brainwashing and you are pissed? Hypocrisy much?

I say good on Poland for stopping brainwashing schemes by the homosexuals.

What - demanding equality and respect is brainwashing?
Boy, your brain must be really filthy...

Now wait just a damn minute here. If Poland were to outlaw, let's say, Christian influence on children, you'd all be happy and throwing parties, and saying how great it is. But they are outlawing a different type of brainwashing and you are pissed? Hypocrisy much?

I say good on Poland for stopping brainwashing schemes by the homosexuals.

How many homosexual people have you been talking to?

You cannot just outlaw christian influence, Christianity has intergrated many of its philosophies into European culture that even if you were to outlaw the religion and reduced the religion from the populace there would be many, many elements of it existing in secular/atheist sytems and cultures.

The main problem in calling it 'brainwashing' is that the techniques used almost always require the person being affected to retreat to a group that follows the beleifs that you are trying to make them follow completely. This allows you to make them follow the patterns you are trying to instill on them. You would also need the to be insulated from the the population that do not follow those systems because if they were to come into contact for a prolonged time the person probably would break out of their programming.

You know a beleif in tolerance, respect and open-mindedness is not exactly conducive for 'brainwashing'.

I'd rather say KaczynskiTwisters (saw this name once in the Web:D) believe what they say about "lustracja" - that is, in their own eyes it is really needed, not just a method of distraction. Of course, many other people think otherwise, and Kaczynskis and their fans (:D) tend to equate them with former agents.

BTW.
lustracja - noun
lustracyjna - adjective
ustawa lustracyjna = parliamentary bill/resolution/whatever to release the former secret records

What do you think should be done?

Whilst I would prefer to have absolute truth in this I can see how it would function to sow discord in Poland, making it politically weak and not helping addressing any issues there. You should still have those who committed major crimes if the records show evidence of that.

Ahem...where exactly do you get this gem of info from? For all you know I could be Father Bob (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1zZuBtwL8) from Melbourne.

That was a cool show.

What the hell happened to Lithuania since then?!

Going from a fairly large state, to a country which even Scotland can beat at football.


Jesus Christ is Zaphod Beeblebrox.

Shift into neutral, and then shift into drive.

Eh? Don't you need to press onto the clutch whilst doing that?

Oh my... if Jesus Christ is Zaphod Beeblebrox, then JC has two heads, hence there is another godly person! THE TRINITY IS A QUATERNITY!

:D

[MOLECULAR BIOLOGY] Quaternitry structure! [/MOLECULAR BIOLOGY]

Of course. Our horses weren't made by FIAT.:D

If the Poles really had used horses the wermacht would have been so confused the Polish army may have won.

Imagine a horse tank...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6698753.stm


I've started to take quite a dislike to the Polish government's approach to catholicism and social conservatism (including gay rights and abortion). I suspect it may be something of a reaction to the communists and their anti-religion policy, but these things have got to find a limit of some sort. Poland is developing into Europe's Kansas, complete with denial of evolution (http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,446307,00.html).

We have one or two Poles on the forum. Do you see it around you? Can you explain it? Or is it just the government being off its rocker?

Heheh it don't matter anyway coz all of the Polish homo's are coming over here to the UK and stealing all of our errr men.

This from the same right-wing nut jobs who banned teletubbies for allegedly being gay,who said 'Jesus' was the King of Poland and are now banning anyone for 10 years of serving in public office if they had even the slightest collaboration with the previous socialist state. Poland is going down hill fast, honestly I think it was better as a non-entity.

Poland is going down hill fast, honestly I think it was better as a non-entity.

*Prods Germany*

Heheh it don't matter anyway coz all of the Polish homo's are coming over here to the UK and stealing all of our errr men.

Don't forget that they took your jerrrbs!

Now wait just a damn minute here. If Poland were to outlaw, let's say, Christian influence on children, you'd all be happy and throwing parties, and saying how great it is. But they are outlawing a different type of brainwashing and you are pissed? Hypocrisy much?

I think he has a point. It's not politically correct in many countries to be opposed to homosexuality but it's perfectly all right to hate a religion like Christianity. I think that Poland are going a little too far sacking teachers, etc. and commenting on Tinky Winky (also, Winnie the Pooh does not have solely male friends - Kanga, Roo's mum, is female), but if they were outlawing Christian influence I'm sure that few of you would be opposed to that...

I think he has a point. It's not politically correct in many countries to be opposed to homosexuality but it's perfectly all right to hate a religion like Christianity. I think that Poland are going a little too far sacking teachers, etc. and commenting on Tinky Winky (also, Winnie the Pooh does not have solely male friends - Kanga, Roo's mum, is female), but if they were outlawing Christian influence I'm sure that few of you would be opposed to that...

Hmm... how many people were killed in the name of the Teletubbies? How much prosecution did straight people suffer at the hands of homosexuals?

What do you think should be done?

Whilst I would prefer to have absolute truth in this I can see how it would function to sow discord in Poland, making it politically weak and not helping addressing any issues there. You should still have those who committed major crimes if the records show evidence of that.

Recently, I'd like all of those records to be made public. Yeah, it's extremely extreme extreme, but I just grow weary of all this political sh*t. Maybe it will make all this stop.

By the way, Adam Michnik, who's in charge of Poland's probably most influential daily newspaper and widely recognised as major opposition (anti-Duck) figure, in a surprising move asked for publicisation of these records, stating it only could end "leakages" from archives and similar events.

Recently, I'd like all of those records to be made public. Yeah, it's extremely extreme extreme, but I just grow weary of all this political sh*t. Maybe it will make all this stop.

By the way, Adam Michnik, who's in charge of Poland's probably most influential daily newspaper and widely recognised as major opposition (anti-Duck) figure, in a surprising move asked for publicisation of these records, stating it only could end "leakages" from archives and similar events.

[LACK OF KNOWLEGE ABOUT POLAND]Ahh, I thought it was the total publication of the records was the problem.[/LACK OF KNOWLEGE ABOUT POLAND]

So they (g'ment) are trying to 'selectively' releasing the records?

This from the same right-wing nut jobs who banned teletubbies for allegedly being gay,

Nobody banned Teletubbies. Actually, the kooky old lady who's the spokeswoman for children rights and commented that she'll have psychologists look into the show was reprimanded by the deputy prime minister.

who said 'Jesus' was the King of Poland

It was a small group of right wing representatives seeking the votes of religious old people. Of course they knew their idea has zero chance of making it into law, but hey, FREE VOTES!

and are now banning anyone for 10 years of serving in public office

Tried. And failed. And IMO they, too, knew very well that their extreme version of "lustracja" has zero chance of passing the scrutiny of the Constitutional Tribunal. You see, they are much, much better off now that they still can accuse anyone of collaboration with the secret police of the totalitarian regime. If the "lustracja" was finished or the archives open, they would lose their best weapon.

if they had even the slightest collaboration with the previous socialist state.
With the secret police of the totalitarian regime that ruled Poland in the years 1944-1989.

Poland is going down hill fast, honestly I think it was better as a non-entity.

Oh, I love you too.

Look, I like the present goverment about as much as any sensible person I know (and it means not at all), but you are accusing it of things it never did, and what's worse, you are judging the whole country by the actions of few politicos. The most extreme examples of bigotry and stupidity are all associated with the catholic conservatives of the LPR party (7% in last elections). How they came to have such influence on public life (and on the news) I explained in previous post.
What worries me most is the fact, that the ruling party still enjoys over 20% of support in the polls :(. It means that some people in this country ARE dumb .

(also, Winnie the Pooh does not have solely male friends - Kanga, Roo's mum, is female)

BBC did not mention that the radio station which called the listeners to vote for the most suspicious children show meant it as a satire. And that the listeners understood it perfectly. Poles love the humour of the absurd variety; it saved their sanity in hard times.

But I know that no matter how much I explain, most people will stay with their preconceptions and damn the facts. I feel like pissing on the fire. :headbang:

but if they were outlawing Christian influence I'm sure that few of you would be opposed to that...

Whilst I am against religion I cannot deny that I have been affected by the west/north-west european christian culture.

what's worse, you are judging the whole country by the actions of few politicos.

Awww, stereotyping is fun.

Do you really want to ruin fun?

Awww, stereotyping is fun.


You mean typing with two hands? I wouldn't know, I do it for a living.
:cool:

Oh THERE'S a big surprise.

Sorry. I don't normally call myself a bigot...but I am unreasonably prejudiced towards the Polish.

*Prods Germany*



Don't forget that they took your jerrrbs!

Not my jeeerb they didn't, nor my man, coz I'm umm hetro:D

Oh THERE'S a big surprise.

Sorry. I don't normally call myself a bigot...but I am unreasonably prejudiced towards the Polish.

Yeah it's all that sourkraut they eat and the way they pronounce their W's as V's! Shocking!

You mean typing with two hands? I wouldn't know, I do it for a living.
:cool:

It is fun, but the real money is in keyboard surround typing.

Of course you can only hire octopuses for the job but thats life *shrug*.

[LACK OF KNOWLEGE ABOUT POLAND]Ahh, I thought it was the total publication of the records was the problem.[/LACK OF KNOWLEGE ABOUT POLAND]

So they (g'ment) are trying to 'selectively' releasing the records?

Nipeng explained it a bit. Their version was rather to check everyone performing any important public service (from politicians to reporters) whether they did collaborate (not necessarily publishing), not to made everything public. Or whatever. I, generally, ain't voter of the ruling party.

Yeah it's all that sourkraut they eat and the way they pronounce their W's as V's! Shocking!

We need some big, beefy stalin tashes here as well if we want to complete the stereotypical 'people who hate Poland'.

Hmmm, we also need Luxembourg as well. Nothing can be done without Luxembourg!

Mmmm, sourkraut.

Nipeng explained it a bit. Their version was rather to check everyone performing any important public service (from politicians to reporters) whether they did collaborate (not necessarily publishing), not to made everything public. Or whatever. I, generally, ain't voter of the ruling party.

Ahhh, so they fudged everything up.

Voter apathy is never a good thing.

Erm erm, the library of Alexandria was not destroyed by christian fanatics, or whatever you are saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

from the very same article:

In 391, Emperor Theodosius I ordered the destruction of all pagan temples, and Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria complied with this request[11]. Socrates Scholasticus provides the following account of the destruction of the temples in Alexandria in the fifth book of his Historia Ecclesiastica, written around 440:

“ At the solicitation of Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, the Emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt. And to begin with, he caused the Mithreum to be cleaned out, and exhibited to public view the tokens of its bloody mysteries. Then he destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rites of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum. Thus this disturbance having been terminated, the governor of Alexandria, and the commander-in-chief of the troops in Egypt, assisted Theophilus in demolishing the heathen temples. ”

The Serapeum housed part of the Library, but it is not known how many books were contained in it at the time of destruction. Notably, Paulus Orosius admitted in the sixth book of his History against the pagans: "Today there exist in temples book chests which we ourselves have seen, and, when these temples were plundered, these, we are told, were emptied by our own men in our time, which, indeed, is a true statement." Some or all of the books may have been taken, but any books left in the Serapeum at the time would have been destroyed when it was razed.


I doubt you even bothered noticing that the wiki article about the Library

1.states that it was christian fanatics -who exploited an order given by a christian emperor- who destroyed the Library;
2.quotes, as source claiming that the destruction of the books wasn't total, a christian who is writing an "history against the pagans".

Ah... the power of reading AND understanding...

Oh THERE'S a big surprise.

Sorry. I don't normally call myself a bigot...but I am unreasonably prejudiced towards the Polish.

Isn't that a bad thing?

We need some big, beefy stalin tashes here as well if we want to complete the stereotypical 'people who hate Poland'.

Hmmm, we also need Luxembourg as well. Nothing can be done without Luxembourg!

Mmmm, sourkraut.

really! Ahh well I shaved me tash orf, and grow the beard back. I have never met a Polish man with facial hair you know, big noses yeah sure, but facial hair, naaaa.

Ahhh, so they fudged everything up.

Voter apathy is never a good thing.

Should that read 'Woter apathy'?:D

Isn't that a bad thing?

To be a bigot towards the Polish? Yes. I'm admitting that I'm not always a nice person.

Should that read 'Woter apathy'?:D

Don't make me get all Prussian on you *shakes fist*...

To be a bigot towards the Polish? Yes. I'm admitting that I'm not always a nice person.

Why?

To be a bigot towards the Polish? Yes. I'm admitting that I'm not always a nice person.

Interesting. So why do you hate Poles?

Shouldn't you change those attitudes before you start wagging your finger at other peoples prejudices?

To be a bigot towards the Polish? Yes. I'm admitting that I'm not always a nice person.Why?

Because she's actually capable of admitting to her errors? :rolleyes:

I'm negatively prejudiced against proven hypocrites and try to avoid falling in the same trap. I also admit to being slightly racist against those that want to join a community (be it a club, a country or an international coalition thingy such as EU) and then fail to conform to the community's rules. :sniper:

Because she's actually capable of admitting to her errors? :rolleyes:

I'm negatively prejudiced against proven hypocrites and try to avoid falling in the same trap. I also admit to being slightly racist against those that want to join a community (be it a club, a country or an international coalition thingy such as EU) and then fail to conform to the community's rules. :sniper:

Just a minor edit.

Eventually the EU's high court will bring a smackdown. Homophobic policies violate the European Convention on Human Rights.

I love the Kansas analogy though, because it's essentially spot on. I figure Poland will catch up quicker than Kansas though, if only because the rest of the EU disapproves of such things more than the rest of the US disapproves of Kansas.

Because she's actually capable of admitting to her errors? :rolleyes:

I was curious as to why he/she was prejudiced against polish people.

Eventually the EU's high court will bring a smackdown.
For that to happen, the law in question would have to a) pass through both chambers of the Polish parliament b) be signed by the president and c) pass the scrutiny of Constitutional Court where it will be inevitably sent by the opposition and the Polish ombudsman. And while a) and b) are possible, however unlikely, c) is rather out of the question. Discrimination on any basis is expressly forbidden by the 32 article of the 1. chapter of Constitution. Therefore the Cout would rule the law out as unconstitutional. Members of the Constitutional Court are nominated for six years and there is no legal way to remove one from his/hers post unless s/he commits a crime and other members of the Court including the chairman cast him/her out. So even when - as is unfortunately the case - we have parliamental majority heavily influenced by religious whackos, they can't do whatever they please. They can make a show of trying to pass various funny laws to impress their gullible voters, fully knowing these laws will fail in the Court as unconstitutional, but they can't turn the country into Kansas.

simple solution. threaten to expel Poland from the EU in all activities, from trading to free pass transit.

For your information, I live in Kansas, and believe in evolution, as does almost everyone I know- a few hold outs, but their still nice people.
Oh my, I'm found guilty of the same gross generalization I despised in others' posts. Sorry!

I thought this thread would involve much more huge rocket engines then it does. I am disappointed.

Eventually the EU's high court will bring a smackdown. Homophobic policies violate the European Convention on Human Rights.
Actually, the European Court of Human Rights is completely seperate to the EU, it has more to do with the Council fo Europe. If Poland withdrew from the European Convention on Human Rights, or just ignored the court's rulings there's nothing that the EU could do about it.

simple solution. threaten to expel Poland from the EU in all activities, from trading to free pass transit.
Would that be legal though? I'n not sure of the EU rules, but it would surprise me if there were provisions to expel other nations, particularly on matter as relatively trivial as these.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;12716144']

Would that be legal though? I'n not sure of the EU rules, but it would surprise me if there were provisions to expel other nations, particularly on matter as relatively trivial as these.

Trivial? I'd hardly call equality and equality legisation 'trivial'. And yes, the threat of expulsion would be real as it could be found to have breached the Charters it signed in joining up to the EU - but I doubt that will happen.

And people wonder about polish jokes...

The Poles are just living in denial, they can't accept that poverty and unemployment in Warsaw and elsewhere is far worst now that during it's time as a socialist state.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;12716144']Actually, the European Court of Human Rights is completely seperate to the EU, it has more to do with the Council fo Europe. If Poland withdrew from the European Convention on Human Rights, or just ignored the court's rulings there's nothing that the EU could do about it.

Actually, one of the prerequisites of EU membership is submitting to the ECHR's jurisdiction and being party to the Convention. The court's rulings are binding - there is no "ignoring" it, that's why Warsaw will see a Pride parade this year as the court has ruled that the previous ban was in breach of the Convention.

Would that be legal though? I'n not sure of the EU rules, but it would surprise me if there were provisions to expel other nations, particularly on matter as relatively trivial as these.

The Treaty of Nice gives the EU the power to censure states, even to strip them of their votes in the Council of Ministers/European Council:

The Treaty on European Union shall be amended in accordance with the provisions of this Article.

1.

Article 7 shall be replaced by the following:

"Article 7

1. On a reasoned proposal by one third of the Member States, by the European Parliament or by the Commission, the Council, acting by a majority of four-fifths of its members after obtaining the assent of the European Parliament, may determine that there is a clear risk of a serious breach by a Member State of principles mentioned in Article 6(1), and address appropriate recommendations to that State. Before making such a determination, the Council shall hear the Member State in question and, acting in accordance with the same procedure, may call on independent persons to submit within a reasonable time limit a report on the situation in the Member State in question.

The Council shall regularly verify that the grounds on which such a determination was made continue to apply.

2. The Council, meeting in the composition of the Heads of State or Government and acting by unanimity on a proposal by one third of the Member States or by the Commission and after obtaining the assent of the European Parliament, may determine the existence of a serious and persistent breach by a Member State of principles mentioned in Article 6(1), after inviting the government of the Member State in question to submit its observations.

3. Where a determination under paragraph 2 has been made, the Council, acting by a qualified majority, may decide to suspend certain of the rights deriving from the application of this Treaty to the Member State in question, including the voting rights of the representative of the government of that Member State in the Council. In doing so, the Council shall take into account the possible consequences of such a suspension on the rights and obligations of natural and legal persons.

The obligations of the Member State in question under this Treaty shall in any case continue to be binding on that State.

4. The Council, acting by a qualified majority, may decide subsequently to vary or revoke measures taken under paragraph 3 in response to changes in the situation which led to their being imposed.

5. For the purposes of this Article, the Council shall act without taking into account the vote of the representative of the government of the Member State in question. Abstentions by members present in person or represented shall not prevent the adoption of decisions referred to in paragraph 2. A qualified majority shall be defined as the same proportion of the weighted votes of the members of the Council concerned as laid down in Article 205(2) of the Treaty establishing the European Community.

This paragraph shall also apply in the event of voting rights being suspended pursuant to paragraph 3.

6. For the purposes of paragraphs 1 and 2, the European Parliament shall act by a two-thirds majority of the votes cast, representing a majority of its Members."

I disagree. I believe they are moving forward with this position.

Barney...anyone?

Barney...anyone?

No I like Sesame Street

tanks on horseback

This I would like to see.

Interesting. So why do you hate Poles?

Shouldn't you change those attitudes before you start wagging your finger at other peoples prejudices?

I don't hate Poles. I simply can't understand them. The ones actually from Poland I mean. They are stand-offish and deadpan in a way I can't read, and extremely religious in a way I can't really comprehend. I'm sure if I actually travelled to Poland and got to know them better, all these little quirks would make sense, but meh.

I'm not, however, going to try to justify my prejudice, and bring out stats that prove I SHOULD hold these views. So no, I'm going to keep wagging my finger at other people's prejudices thanks.

I don't hate Poles. I simply can't understand them. The ones actually from Poland I mean. They are stand-offish and deadpan in a way I can't read, and extremely religious in a way I can't really comprehend. I'm sure if I actually travelled to Poland and got to know them better, all these little quirks would make sense, but meh.

I'm not, however, going to try to justify my prejudice, and bring out stats that prove I SHOULD hold these views. So no, I'm going to keep wagging my finger at other people's prejudices thanks.

Oh, Christ on a pogo stick! They're just Poles. It's OK to dislike them for all the reasons you mentioned and then some. Them and Albanians. Oh, and those creepy Kurds. No, they can't have a country. Not theirs!

Oh, Christ on a pogo stick! They're just Poles. It's OK to dislike them for all the reasons you mentioned and then some. Them and Albanians. Oh, and those creepy Kurds. No, they can't have a country. Not theirs!

What about sissy Swedes?

What about sissy Swedes?

Fuck them! :)

I don't hate Poles. I simply can't understand them. The ones actually from Poland I mean. They are stand-offish and deadpan in a way I can't read, and extremely religious in a way I can't really comprehend. I'm sure if I actually travelled to Poland and got to know them better, all these little quirks would make sense, but meh.

I'm not, however, going to try to justify my prejudice, and bring out stats that prove I SHOULD hold these views. So no, I'm going to keep wagging my finger at other people's prejudices thanks.

They are not all like that. My granddad wouldn't even fit that description.

Fuck them! :)

I never get tired of your eloquence! :)

I don't hate Poles. I simply can't understand them. The ones actually from Poland I mean. They are stand-offish and deadpan in a way I can't read, and extremely religious in a way I can't really comprehend. I'm sure if I actually travelled to Poland and got to know them better, all these little quirks would make sense, but meh.

I'm not, however, going to try to justify my prejudice, and bring out stats that prove I SHOULD hold these views. So no, I'm going to keep wagging my finger at other people's prejudices thanks.

You're just jealous because your parents/grandparents weren't man enough to charge German tanks while riding horses with sabres drawn.

You're just jealous because your parents/grandparents weren't man enough to charge German tanks while riding horses with sabres drawn.

Actually granddad was with Sosabowski in Warsaw and later with the 1st (Polish) Independent Parachute Brigade.

They actually repelled the Germans....

No Facial Hair in Poland?????
Go There, tashes as far as the eye can see!!

are all 38 million polish people deadpan?

Never will a large country get expelled from the EU, the better option in my opinion would be to educate those members of the Polish people on what it means to be European. (or what it should mean) And how en brassing these ideals will help Poland's future and enrich their lives, not strip them of there national heritage which they fought so hard to keep.

The Poles are just living in denial, they can't accept that poverty and unemployment in Warsaw and elsewhere is far worst now that during it's time as a socialist state.

I love You, Andaras :fluffle:
I guess, that in Your eyes, the vilest things Poland has ever done was to repel Soviet invasion in 1920 and dismantle communism in 1989 :p

BTW. I'd ask why, in Your opinion, was communism dismantled in the first place, but You propably already have an answer (the one with imperialist US agents etc.).

No Facial Hair in Poland?????
Go There, tashes as far as the eye can see!!

Yeah, just take a look! ;) Here's linky to the webcam in Krakow:
http://www.dziennik.krakow.pl/public/oko.cgi

No Facial Hair in Poland?????
Go There, tashes as far as the eye can see!!

are all 38 million polish people deadpan?

Never will a large country get expelled from the EU, the better option in my opinion would be to educate those members of the Polish people on what it means to be European. (or what it should mean) And how en brassing these ideals will help Poland's future and enrich their lives, not strip them of there national heritage which they fought so hard to keep.

Teach them how to be European? What happened to multiculturalism over there? :p Their being geographically European widens the definition of "European," I'd think.

I love You, Andaras :fluffle:
I guess, that in Your eyes, the vilest things Poland has ever done was to repel Soviet invasion in 1920 and dismantle communism in 1989 :p

BTW. I'd ask why, in Your opinion, was communism dismantled in the first place, but You propably already have an answer (the one with imperialist US agents etc.).

It always disturbs a Socialist when people choose Freedom. :)

Teach them how to be European? What happened to multiculturalism over there? :p Their being geographically European widens the definition of "European," I'd think.

Not Teach them how to be European, btu what being a citizen of the EU can mean in their day to day live. This has been done in Ireland (where i live) to an extent and I think it worked well. Show people the freedoms the get also what decisions are made collectively and some of the fear of the unknown may be lost allowing them to vote for a more progressive government.

Teach them how to be European? What happened to multiculturalism over there? :p Their being geographically European widens the definition of "European," I'd think.

I maybe should have said more accurately is, Show them the day to day benefits of being a citizen of the EU. This worked well in Ireland (where I'm from
) show people the freedoms they gain and also what decisions are made collectively with other EU states. This might relive some of the fear of the unknown and allow them to vote for a more progressive government.
Someone like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tusk

Oh, Christ on a pogo stick! They're just Poles. It's OK to dislike them for all the reasons you mentioned and then some. Them and Albanians. Oh, and those creepy Kurds. No, they can't have a country. Not theirs!

*Puts on Turkish hat* Thats right! They are part of Turkey, they can't take their land and leave!

Quick, let the politicians want to arrest another parlimentary Kurd!

Now for the Armenians...

Actually granddad was with Sosabowski in Warsaw and later with the 1st (Polish) Independent Parachute Brigade.

They actually repelled the Germans....

One of my grandfathers had the right idea, he stayed in France.

No Facial Hair in Poland?????
Go There, tashes as far as the eye can see!!

You do know what that means don't you? Stalin's plan to infect the world with moustaches is succeeding!

are all 38 million polish people deadpan?

Yep, just like how all Russians are off their nut on vodka!

It always disturbs a Socialist when people choose Freedom. :)

Wait what?

What kind of freedoms are we talking about here?

I live in Europe. Poland is our neighbour and I think they're all the same. Personaly, I do not like them. To answer the qustion: what else you expected?