NationStates Jolt Archive

Does anyone else think that most genres of heavy metal sound the same?

No.

Though what with heavy metal being a genre in and of itself, the question doesn't actually make any sense.

No.

Though what with heavy metal being a genre in and of itself, the question doesn't actually make any sense.

If you want to call it that. Think of the genres i'm talking about as sub genres then.

Go listen to Slayer.

Following that, listen to Iron Maiden.

Then, Dragonforce.

Now please, tell me all metal sounds the same.

If you want to call it that. Think of the genres i'm talking about as sub genres then.
If you're talking about sub genres of one particular sub genre of a broad genre, then of course they're going to sound broadly the same.

If you meant just sub genres of one broad genre (ie. metal), then no, they don't sound the same. Not at all.

Go listen to Slayer.

Following that, listen to Iron Maiden.

Then, Dragonforce.

Now please, tell me all metal sounds the same.
Well, it does when you're deaf.:p

Well, it does when you're deaf.:p

A common feature among the metalheads that attend a lot of concerts, from what I understand...:D

Didn't Tony Iommi lose hearing because of how loud Sabbath was?

Go listen to Slayer.

Following that, listen to Iron Maiden.

Then, Dragonforce.

Now please, tell me all metal sounds the same.

I didn't say all I said most. I'll accept that there is a distinct difference between classic and modern metal. The only other variables in modern metal that are actually significant is the speed and whether the person is growling or singing.

How unfortunate for me that NSGs two main metal heads are the first posters in this thread :p

Kenny G.

How unfortunate for me that NSGs two main metal heads are the first posters in this thread :pPure Metal?:p

Go listen to Slayer.

OK

Following that, listen to Iron Maiden.


Good

Then, Dragonforce.

Now please, tell me all metal sounds the same.

They don't sound the same seeing as one is good, one is ok, the final one is terrible.

There are differences between the subgenres but to someone who does not listen to the genre, these differences can be hard to hear. I'm sure most people have problems with other genres such as Jazz and rap but there are huge differences between different subgenres in those.

At the end of the day, the more you listen to a genre, the more you are able to recognise the differences in sound between differerent bands and subgenres.

Pure Metal?:p

Does he even post here anymore?

How unfortunate for me that NSGs two main metal heads are the first posters in this thread :p

Who?

Who?

you & ivstalin

(i assume your a metal head since your always making threads on it)

I'm sure most people have problems with other genres such as Jazz

But music like Jazz has no way near as much sub genres as metal. After swing, bebop and cool jazz. All the other jazz styles after that are just classed under fusion. There may be subgenres of that but no legitimate jazz musician would ever say they don't sound similar.

you & ivstalin

(i assume your a metal head since your always making threads on it)

Oh boy! I'm a prominent metal head!

But music like Jazz has no way near as much sub genres as metal. After swing, bebop and cool jazz. All the other jazz styles after that are just classed under fusion. There may be subgenres of that but no legitimate jazz musician would ever say they don't sound similar.

There aren't that many metal subgenres either. Traditional Heavy metal, glam metal, death metal, thrash metal, alternative metal, progressive metal, rap metal, power metal and nu-metal somes up the genre. And half of them include fusion with another genre anyway.

Meatl does sound similar because it all aims to succeed at one thing: making loud, heavy music. They all succeed. Jazz may sound similar (I think it does) but there also may be many people who would argue that there are huge differences between them.

There aren't that many metal subgenres either. Traditional Heavy metal, glam metal, death metal, thrash metal, alternative metal, progressive metal, rap metal, power metal and nu-metal somes up the genre. And half of them include fusion with another genre anyway.


Oh i've seen many more genres then that (and thats already more then significant Jazz genres).


Meatl does sound similar because it all aims to succeed at one thing: making loud, heavy music. They all succeed.

Exactly!


Jazz may sound similar (I think it does) but there also may be many people who would argue that there are huge differences between them.

As I said, most people into Jazz would probably not argue that there are significant differences in Jazz genres except from the four main genres I mentioned before (swing, bebop, cool jazz, fusion).

Oh i've seen many more genres then that (and thats already more then significant Jazz genres).

But could you say that rap is also a hugely varied genre that many people dismiss as sounding the same? There is Gangster rap, alternative rap, rap-metal, old-school rap, jazz-rap, psychedelic rap, hip-hop, modern R'N'B when mixed with hip-hop, political rap etc.

Most genres aim to succeed at a certain sound or use a similar technique that inevitably makes their music sound relatively similar to someone who is not used to listening to the genre.

jazz-rap, psychedelic rap

Never heard of them two.


hip-hop, modern R'N'B when mixed with hip-hop, political rap etc.

Thats still not no way near as many as metal genres (and politica rap is not really a genre).


Most genres aim to succeed at a certain sound or use a similar technique that inevitably makes their music sound relatively similar to someone who is not used to listening to the genre.

Well, a lot of rap is similar. But most people into rap won't deny this.

i wouldn't know, i've only listened to some doom metal, and i'm now listening to a song by Merzbow and Isis, i guess the later is a metal band? It's ok, some of the songs are bad, others are quite good. Other than that i have almost no experience with metal. All that is going to change soon though since i'm going to a free metal festival with local (mostly metal) bands :p


But music like Jazz has no way near as much sub genres as metal. After swing, bebop and cool jazz. All the other jazz styles after that are just classed under fusion. There may be subgenres of that but no legitimate jazz musician would ever say they don't sound similar.

where does free jazz fall under?

where does free jazz fall under?

I would just call it one type of jazz fusion (although it's not actually classed as such). I know there are other significant genres of jazz impart from the four I mentioned, but even if you counted all of those genres of jazz they still wouldn't be as much as metal. (keep in mind that jazz has existed for a century, while metal has only existed for 30 odd years at most)

Never heard of them two.



Thats still not no way near as many as metal genres (and politica rap is not really a genre).



Well, a lot of rap is similar. But most people into rap won't deny this.

Jazz rap and psychedelic rap does exist. For jazz rap see A Tribe Called Quest. De la soul have experimented with Psychedelic rap.

Political rap could be considered a genre as it's lyrical content is vastly different to much rap nowdays.

I forgot East-coast and West-coast rap and pop-rap.

If jazz and rap fans can admit their genres sound the same, why can't metal fans?

Metal probably loses only to rock for number of genres.

Let's see here, Metal: 32

Rock: A whole fucking lot.

Jazz rap and psychedelic rap does exist. For jazz rap see A Tribe Called Quest. De la soul have experimented with Psychedelic rap.


Eh, I personally wou'dn't describe A tribe Called Quest as "jazz rap" but thats just me. De la soul may have done some psychadelic rap, but is it enough to call it a genre?


Political rap could be considered a genre as it's lyrical content is vastly different to much rap nowdays.


But i'm not sure if lyrics are enough.


I forgot East-coast and West-coast rap and pop-rap.


Don't forget UK beatz!


If jazz and rap fans can admit their genres sound the same, why can't metal fans?

Exactly!

Metal probably loses only to rock for number of genres.

Let's see here, Metal: 32

Rock: A whole fucking lot.

Rock is very varied and I would always take the subgenres as genres in themselves, with one subgenre arguably being metal.

Also, how do you know there are 32 metal subgenres? Can you name them I've never heard of that many.

Eh, I personally wou'dn't describe A tribe Called Quest as "jazz rap" but thats just me. De la soul may have done some psychadelic rap, but is it enough to call it a genre?



But i'm not sure if lyrics are enough.



Don't forget UK beatz!



Exactly!

I forgot Grime and Grindie aswell.

Either way I think were both arguing the same thing, that metal bands all sound basicaly similar.

Rock: A whole fucking lot.

Let me try and count them all:

Rock and role/blues rock
Rockabilly
Early 60's Rock
psychedelic rock
traditional hard rock
classic rock
prog rock
soft rock
folk rock
punk rock
modern hard rock
indie rock
grunge

thats all I can think of: 13. Feel free to add more.

Also, how do you know there are 32 metal subgenres? Can you name them I've never heard of that many.

I'm basing it on Wikipedia.

They would be (To the tune of "The Elements" by Tom Lehrer. Or whatever song that tune goes to originally)

Black
Death
Doom
Folk
Glam
Gothic
Grindcore
Industrial
Metalcore
Neo-classical
Nu
Power
Progressive
Speed
Symphonic
Thrash
Alternative
Avant-Garde
Blackened Death
Blackened Thrash
Classic
Groove
Post Metal
Stoner
Viking

Sorry, Twenty-Seven. It goes up to 33 if you add in all the Grindcore subgenres.

Let me try and count them all:

Rock and role/blues rock
Rockabilly
Early 60's Rock
psychedelic rock
traditional hard rock
classic rock
prog rock
soft rock
folk rock
punk rock
modern hard rock
indie rock
grunge

thats all I can think of: 13. Feel free to add more.

country rock
pop rock
avant garde rock
art rock
new wave
glam rock
heavy metal (it is practically a subgenre of the rock genre)

I might add some more later

Let me try and count them all:

Rock and role/blues rock
Rockabilly
Early 60's Rock
psychedelic rock
traditional hard rock
classic rock
prog rock
soft rock
folk rock
punk rock
modern hard rock
indie rock
grunge

thats all I can think of: 13. Feel free to add more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rock_genres

Heavy metal is a genre of rock, and you already said there were a shitload of metal genres so....;)

There's also alternative rock.

But if you really break it down...metal only has these genres: thrash/speed, death, black, doom/gothic, power. Within that, you break stuff up like brutal death metal, technical death metal, progressive metal, melodic death metal, groove metal, Bay Area thrash, teutonic thrash which probably sound the same to the average outsider so that's understandable...but the main genres can be differentiated pretty easily.

Death: "death grunt" vocals, very heavy, incredibly gory lyrics
Thrash/Speed: heavy and fast
Black: raspy vocals, dark atmosphere, satanic and/or pagan themes
Power: creates an "epic" feeling when you listen to it
Doom: IDK, never listened to any, but apparently much slower?

Doom: IDK, never listened to any, but apparently much slower?

If you turn the treble up all the way while listening to doom, and turn the bass all the way down, it's still heavier then Black Sabbath. It's super heavy, bass, and slow.

At least with Electric Wizard.

Also, you forget Hair and Gothic, and Folk, and Classic, which are all standalone genres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rock_genres

heh, a lot of them are just sub genres of other genres like metal etc..

I didn't really think that rock includes all metal styles and all punk styles technically. I wouldn't count rock as a same type of genre as metal, since metal is a sub genre of rock. Therefore you can't compare the two genres. So ha!

heh, a lot of them are just sub genres of other genres like metal etc..

I didn't really think that rock includes all metal styles and all punk styles technically. I wouldn't count rock as a same type of genre as metal, since metal is a sub genre of rock. Therefore you can't compare the two genres. So ha!

It's still a whole fucking lot.

Oh boy! I'm a prominent metal head!
So am I, apparently...

Not sure I'd describe myself as a metal head. Yes, most of the music threads I post in are metal-related, although it's certainly not my preferred genre. It's just I somehow don't think a post-rock thread would get all that many posts.

Does anyone else think that most genres of heavy metal sound the same?

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLtUaIViMDY), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8FeFjI3wHs), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOb6JSQd-Qw), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYDetbwegs), and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzs2IYNXjj0).

Then tell me they sound the same, dipshit. Disliking a band or genre is one thing - making ignorant(read: unknowledgeable/misinformed) generalizations and dismissing an entire musical style is something else entirely. Fucking stupid.

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLtUaIViMDY), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8FeFjI3wHs), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOb6JSQd-Qw), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYDetbwegs), and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzs2IYNXjj0).

Then tell me they sound the same, dipshit. Disliking a band or genre is one thing - making ignorant(read: unknowledgeable/misinformed) generalizations and dismissing an entire musical style is something else entirely. Fucking stupid.
Just because he's insulted your music taste doesn't actually give you the right to call him a "dipshit" and "fucking stupid".

Just because he's insulted your music taste doesn't actually give you the right to call him a "dipshit" and "fucking stupid".

Sure it does! Didn't you read the sign before entering NSG?

NATION STATES GENERAL
ABANDON HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE

No one has answered the thread title yet.

THREAD DERAILED.

No one has answered the thread title yet.

THREAD DERAILED.

I think "Thread Derailed" would be a pretty good name for a band. Probably techno.

Well sure, if you're going into sub-sub-sub genres they're gonna start sounding the same :P

To me, all Jazz sounds the same. But it's just because I don't listen to it and haven't trained my ear to tell the difference between one jazz song and the next.

Sure it does! Didn't you read the sign before entering NSG?

NATION STATES GENERAL
ABANDON HOPE, ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE
Heh, I almost sigged that. :p

Well sure, if you're going into sub-sub-sub genres they're gonna start sounding the same :P

To me, all Jazz sounds the same. But it's just because I don't listen to it and haven't trained my ear to tell the difference between one jazz song and the next.
Exactly. When a modern indie song comes on a pub jukebox or the radio, I have no clue who it's by, because to me they all sound so similar. If you don't deliberately expose yourself to the genre, you're not going to be able to tell the difference between two bands. If I started playing Tool and Isis at work, the vast majority of my colleagues would think it's all by the same band.

Heavy metal is a genre of rock, and you already said there were a shitload of metal genres so....;)

There's also alternative rock.

But if you really break it down...metal only has these genres: thrash/speed, death, black, doom/gothic, power. Within that, you break stuff up like brutal death metal, technical death metal, progressive metal, melodic death metal, groove metal, Bay Area thrash, teutonic thrash which probably sound the same to the average outsider so that's understandable...but the main genres can be differentiated pretty easily.

Death: "death grunt" vocals, very heavy, incredibly gory lyrics
Thrash/Speed: heavy and fast
Black: raspy vocals, dark atmosphere, satanic and/or pagan themes
Power: creates an "epic" feeling when you listen to it
Doom: IDK, never listened to any, but apparently much slower?

Yes. This is largely correct.

Doom metal is often characterized by a slow tempo and a very depressed sound. Even though Black Sabbath was the first heavy metal band of any kind, they would be an example of very early doom metal. Other examples include My Dying Bride, Candlemass, St. Vitus and a bunch more.

There's quite a bit of overlap between Doom metal and stoner metal. Some call this "sludge metal." I don't use it though, because hardly anybody knows what it means.

To the OP: No, most metal does not sound the same. Try listening to Emperor's "Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk" and then My Dying Bride's "The Angel and the Dark River." They both are dark and often loud, but the similarities pretty much end there.

To say all music in a certain genre sounds the same is to insult that kind of music and demonstrates a total ignorance of it.

All it takes to notice the (sometimes quite striking) differences is a bit of listening.

I don't like many forms of musical expression, but I don't go around insulting them. It's like food. There are some things, that no matter how well prepared they are, I just do not like the taste of.

Yes. This is largely correct.

Doom metal is often characterized by a slow tempo and a very depressed sound. Even though Black Sabbath was the first heavy metal band of any kind, they would be an example of very early doom metal. Other examples include My Dying Bride, Candlemass, St. Vitus and a bunch more.
Interesting. What I know as doom metal is very slow, very bass heavy with extremely long (7.5+ minutes) instrumental pieces and very few (if any) vocals - such as SunnO))) and Earth.

Try this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLtUaIViMDY), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8FeFjI3wHs), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOb6JSQd-Qw), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYDetbwegs), and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzs2IYNXjj0).


Oh great, you gave me five (yes only five), marginally different sounding types of metal. Even I could have found better tracks then your painfully mediocre choice to demonstrate your point. Seriously? Is that really all you have to offer?


Then tell me they sound the same, dipshit.

They sound the same, dipshit.


Disliking a band or genre is one thing - making ignorant(read: unknowledgeable/misinformed) generalizations

Oh no it's a generalization, it must be wrong! :rolleyes:


and dismissing an entire musical style is something else entirely. Fucking stupid.

When did I dismiss it?

Does anyone else think that most genres of heavy metal sound the same?

Only the people that don't know much about metal (and music, for that matter)

Does he even post here anymore?
boo!!

I didn't say all I said most. I'll accept that there is a distinct difference between classic and modern metal. The only other variables in modern metal that are actually significant is the speed and whether the person is growling or singing.

i'd kinda agree with you. a lot of popular modern metal you see on Scuzz or MTV2 or whatever does often sound alike. but that's because one sub-genre of metal is currently popular, and bands that fit that mould are going to get the most airtime. there's still great variation within the subgenres of metal under the surface, i'll bet (not that i'd really know being an 80's thrash fan myself...)

i'd kinda agree with you. a lot of popular modern metal you see on Scuzz or MTV2 or whatever does often sound alike. but that's because one sub-genre of metal is currently popular, and bands that fit that mould are going to get the most airtime. there's still great variation within the subgenres of metal under the surface, i'll bet (not that i'd really know being an 80's thrash fan myself...)

Thats probably right. If you don't actively seek to listen to a genre but only hear whats on TV and the radio you will get an opinion that they sound the same.

I would say that most genres do sound relatively similar mainly due to the fact they are all inspired by similar bands for example alot of metal bands probably have been inspired by Black Sabbath in one way or another. The differences between bands is normally the way in which they have incorporated all their influences into one sound in varying ways and the fact that they may be inspired by other genres.

Interesting. What I know as doom metal is very slow, very bass heavy with extremely long (7.5+ minutes) instrumental pieces and very few (if any) vocals - such as SunnO))) and Earth.

I believe what you're thinking of is a very obscure experimental genre called drone metal or drone doom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_metal#Drone_doom

I believe what you're thinking of is a very obscure experimental genre called drone metal or drone doom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_metal#Drone_doom
I guess 'drone' fits pretty closely...

Totally kicks ass, that sort of music does. (Yoda, am I ;)). Nothing like a bit of bowel-loosening bass to annoy the neighbours at...well, 4pm the last time they complained. :D

To me, all Jazz sounds the same. But it's just because I don't listen to it and haven't trained my ear to tell the difference between one jazz song and the next.

Having only recently discovered my deeply hidden but uncontrolable love for jazz, I can only completely agree. Before exploring the genre, I imagined every song to sound the same : a few deep chords, an annoyingly raspy voice, and badly harmonized saxophones or horns. Its only with a little training that I became able to recognize and appreciate completely different styles of jazz.