NationStates Jolt Archive

Honestly was he? In my opinion, for a person to be insane they have to commit a crime but not understand that they did it, or understand why. From what I have seen and read, Adolf Hitler knew exactly what he was doing, he understood the consequences of his actions entirely; he may not have paid them any heed, but he understood them. So, in my opinion, he was not insane.

He had to be insane to get such stupid ideas.

Hitler may not have been clinically psychotic, but I believe he did suffer from mental disorders.

I believe he was a megalomaniac, egotistical, perhaps narcissistic in some form, etc. I can't name them off, tired, but I believe he suffered from mental disorders.

Hitler may not have been clinically psychotic, but I believe he did suffer from mental disorders.

I believe he was a megalomaniac, egotistical, perhaps narcissistic in some form, etc. I can't name them off, tired, but I believe he suffered from mental disorders.

Right, but what I am asking is if what he did could be contributed to the fact that he had a mental illness, or was he just evil?

He was definetly extremely intelligent, but, obviously, some of his ideas were pysopathically crazy...

But I don't think he was clinically insane 'till the War started and he thought he was strong enough to invade Russia.

I suppose that's silly old Hitler for you... The bastard...

He was what we should have expected from a person in his place in that timetable.

He was what we should have expected from a person in his place in that timetable.

Right, maybe his actions can be attributed to the fact that he had a horrible childhood; or maybe the gassing he took in WWI fucked up his mind?

Right, but what I am asking is if what he did could be contributed to the fact that he had a mental illness, or was he just evil?
Probably a bit of both.

No, not insane, he would never have been able to get elected Chancellor and do all the things he did coherently with such a pathology, it's just not possible. I mean sure he probably had some personality defects, arrogant etc, but not insane.

No, not insane, he would never have been able to get elected Chancellor and do all the things he did coherently with such a pathology, it's just not possible. I mean sure he probably had some personality defects, arrogant etc, but not insane.
[insert George Bush joke here]

Yeah, he was a crackpot! No doubt about it!

He wasn't insane.

I don't really care, as long as he's dead!

Yeah, he was a crackpot! No doubt about it!

A crackpot who got elected by sheer popularity and then repaired damages done to germany from WW1 and democracy. Although he must of been "out of his head" to attack the Soviet Union. Germany could of easily repelled and beat the allies if he hadn't attack the Soviet Union

He had to be insane to get such stupid ideas.

Just because he had some radical ideas doesn't make him insane , Most of germany agreed with most of his idea's does that make so many millions of people insane?
Religion has alot of radical idea's , some of which are worse than some Hitlers Idea's does it make people insane to follow those religions?

A crackpot who got elected by sheer popularity and then repaired damages done to germany from WW1 and democracy. Although he must of been "out of his head" to attack the Soviet Union. Germany could of easily repelled and beat the allies if he hadn't attack the Soviet Union

I spend most of my time in II but this comment is retarded in the extreme. Even if the Nazis hadn't attacked the Soviet Union, Japan still would have attacked America and America still would have entered the war and Germany still wouldn't be able to compete with America's industrial strenght. So in affect, Germany still would have lost the war.

Well, let's see, he wanted to commit genocide, he invaded Russia and didn't give his people adequate supplies or equipment, and started in FALL, when he tried to write Mien Kamp, it ended up so screwy that a ghost writer had to write it for him, and toward the end of the war, he spent all his time underground, commanding troops that didn't exist into fake battles. Then, when the allies were closing in, he gave his suicide pill to the dog to test it, then shot himself.

All in all, either terminally stupid, mentally retarded, or fucking crazy.

No, not insane, he would never have been able to get elected Chancellor and do all the things he did coherently with such a pathology, it's just not possible.
That's not fair. People with mental illnesses can sometimes be just as well-spoken and talented as anyone else.

I don't really care, as long as he's dead!
Ah, but is he?

<.<

>.>

I spend most of my time in II but this comment is retarded in the extreme. Even if the Nazis hadn't attacked the Soviet Union, Japan still would have attacked America and America still would have entered the war and Germany still wouldn't be able to compete with America's industrial strenght. So in affect, Germany still would have lost the war.

American troops sent in via D-day would of been easily repelled along with other allied forces but america would of still been devoting most of there strengh fighting Japan . Germany would of finished of Britain during that time if they hadn't attack the Soviet Union , and once Britain fell they could of easily lead a invasion against america . America wouldn't hold up against Germany and Japan.

The Soviet Union broke the back of the German army plain and simple.

Just because he ahd some radical ideas doesn't make him insane , Most of germany agreed with most of his idea's does that make so many millions of people insane?
Religion has alot of radical idea's , some of which are worse than some Hitlers Idea's does it make people insane to follow those religions?

People didn't believe in his ideas, they were scared of him, and supported him
out of fear, not belief

That's not fair. People with mental illnesses can sometimes be just as well-spoken and talented as anyone else.

Mental illness, yes although they could be somewhat impaired in public life. Pathologically and criminally insane, no way, I am not defending the guy or anything, but he wouldn't have got as far as he did.

Also, the guy was like the most inspirational orator of his century.

People didn't believe in his ideas, they were scared of him, and supported him
out of fear, not belief

People support Hitler because he made Germany strong after it had been crushed by the great depression. Many german people did believe that Germany was superior and that Nazism was going to restore German superiorority over the world. Hitler stirred up alot of hate and lies and the jews and people believed it along with the "master race".

People support Hitler because he made Germany strong after it had been crushed by the great depression. Many german people did believe that Germany was superior and that Nazism was going to restore German superiorority over the world. Hitler stirred up alot of hate and lies and the jews and people believed it along with the "master race".


I get your idea but don't believe that was the case.
No-one in their right mind would believe that what hitler
was doing was going to make Germany strong.
They all knew that what Hitler was doing was going to
make Germany the most hated country in the world.

What am I, a forensic psychologist? Hitler was as crazy as people want him to have been.

American troops sent in via D-day would of been easily repelled along with other allied forces but america would of still been devoting most of there strengh fighting Japan . Germany would of finished of Britain during that time if they hadn't attack the Soviet Union , and once Britain fell they could of easily lead a invasion against america . America wouldn't hold up against Germany and Japan.

The Soviet Union broke the back of the German army plain and simple.

What the hell, the Germans had the Soviet Union on the run, it was the Russian winter that killed them. Lets say for, just for speculation, that the Germans had beaten the Soviet Union, they would have been over-stretched trying to control to much territory with too few men, Hitler would no doubt have deployed most of his men to eastern europe to stop the any revolts and secure needed resources. This would have left his western front open, and would have gave Britain time to recover, America would have taken the same course and invaded France, the only thing that would change would be that Americans instead of Soviets would have captured Berlin.

I get your idea but don't believe that was the case.
No-one in their right mind would believe that what hitler
was doing was going to make Germany strong.
They all knew that what Hitler was doing was going to
make Germany the most hated country in the world.

Hitler made Germany strong because Germany was crippled during WW1 and during the great depression . He made Gemrnay economically powerful , he created jobs , he got rid of democracy which many Germans attributed to be a great weakness. He made Germany military powerful. He turned a run down country Into a place you'd be proud to say you were from . (Obviously I'm not refering to the mass slaughter of ethnic groups)

He was a smart man no doubt but he was and made some bad chosies like invading russia and opening a second front,but no he wasn't insane just a vary evil yet smart man who belived jews were evil and he could unit the world under one goverment!!!!!!!!!

He was a smart man no doubt but he was and made some bad chosies like invading russia and opening a second front,but no he wasn't insane just a vary evil yet smart man who belived jews were evil and he could unit the world under one goverment!!!!!!!!!

Daily RANDOM!

"Stop thinking and follow me!" cried Hiter "And I will make you masters of the world!"

several years later

"Whats that? Look over there!" Hitler yelled into the mob, gesturing violently behind the crowd. The crowd collectivly turned around to look.

"HEY, where did they lying son of a bitch go!!!!" cried several men when they turned back around.......

What the hell, the Germans had the Soviet Union on the run, it was the Russian winter that killed them. Lets say for, just for speculation, that the Germans had beaten the Soviet Union, they would have been over-stretched trying to control to much territory with too few men, Hitler would no doubt have deployed most of his men to eastern europe to stop the any revolts and secure needed resources. This would have left his western front open, and would have gave Britain time to recover, America would have taken the same course and invaded France, the only thing that would change would be that Americans instead of Soviets would have captured Berlin.

Precisely because of the war with the Soviet Union the German army literally had its back broken. If he hadn't invaded the Soviets he would of brushed aside the allied invasion , Invaded Britain and then ganged up on America with Japan.
All considering that German didn't invade the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union didn't invade Germany.

Precisely because of the war with the Soviet Union the German army literally had its back broken. If he hadn't invaded the Soviets he would of brushed aside the allied invasion , Invaded Britain and then ganged up on America with Japan.
All considering that German didn't invade the Soviet Uniona nd the Soviet Union didn't invade Germany.

Japan attempting to invade America I can see happening, they actually had more than a few battleships in their Navy, but if you don't mind me asking...how in the HELL would the Nazis invade Britain, let alone America, with out superiority in the air (which they didn't have) and a large navy for transporting goods and men (which they didn't have) explain this.

Japan attempting to invade America I can see happening, they actually had more than a few battleships in their Navy, but if you don't mind me asking...how in the HELL would the Nazis invade Britain, let alone America, with out superiority in the air (which they didn't have) and a large navy for transporting goods and men (which they didn't have) explain this.

Germany would of repelled the D-day landings and with the mass of extra troops and resources not being wasted on the Soviet Union they would of quickly invaded Britain wiping out the miniscule amount of defending troops. After that they could of began mass producing warships and more U-boats and then hassled America . Germany had superiority In the air but they wasted it on mass bombing British city's rather than finishing of the RAF as they first intended. The RAF was given time to recover and eventually the Germans lost air superiority.

I spend most of my time in II but this comment is retarded in the extreme. Even if the Nazis hadn't attacked the Soviet Union, Japan still would have attacked America and America still would have entered the war and Germany still wouldn't be able to compete with America's industrial strenght. So in affect, Germany still would have lost the war.

This would have to rely on the Germans still declaring war on America, who declared war on Japan who attacked Pearl Harbour as per history. However, if Germany hadn't declared war on America, they wouldn't have to face the industrial power of America.

In fact, America would have probably stayed out of it unless Europe totally fell, which means that England would have had to fall.

Precisely because of the war with the Soviet Union the German army literally had its back broken. If he hadn't invaded the Soviets he would of brushed aside the allied invasion , Invaded Britain and then ganged up on America with Japan.
All considering that German didn't invade the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union didn't invade Germany.

Only one problem. Hitler hated the USSR and wanted to get rid of communism and create Lebensraum for his people. If the war had of gone his way, the invasion of Poland would have not lead to war with the U.K. and France. He would have used it to atack the USSR.

Hitler wanted to remove the USSR and would have attempted to do so at some point in the war. Its just he chose the wrong point.

He was a very smart man but also one that was seriously deluded and had meglomanic tendancies. He brainwashed his people into following his ideas e.g. people even aided the Gestapo in finding dissenters.

Germany would of repelled the D-day landings and with the mass of extra troops and resources not being wasted on the Soviet Union they would of quickly invaded Britain wiping out the miniscule amount of defending troops. After that they could of began mass producing warships and more U-boats and then hassled America . Germany had superiority In the air but they wasted it on mass bombing British city's rather than finishing of the RAF as they first intended. The RAF was given time to recover and eventually the Germans lost air superiority.

Again you are mistaken, German Air Superiority was an illusion, British Radar was years ahead of Germany's, the British knew when the Germans were coming long before the Germans even crossed the English Channel. The RAF was on top of the Luftwaffa before Goering knew what walked up and slapped him in the face. Germany couldn't invade Great Britain, the Royal Navy was simply better than the German Navy, their air force, though badly beaten, was better. And as for an invasion of America, US warships had largly pushed all German naval activity away from their borders. Germany had neither the capability nor the man power to be a direct threat to the United States of America.

Only one problem. Hitler hated the USSR and wanted to get rid of communism and create Lebensraum for his people. If the war had of gone his way, the invasion of Poland would have not lead to war with the U.K. and France. He would have used it to atack the USSR.

Hitler wanted to remove the USSR and would have attempted to do so at some point in the war. Its just he chose the wrong point.

He was a very smart man but also one that was seriously deluded and had meglomanic tendancies. He brainwashed his people into following his ideas e.g. people even aided the Gestapo in finding dissenters.

Yes but were saying that If he hadn't invaded the Soviet Union.

This would have to rely on the Germans still declaring war on America, who declared war on Japan who attacked Pearl Harbour as per history. However, if Germany hadn't declared war on America, they wouldn't have to face the industrial power of America.

In fact, America would have probably stayed out of it unless Europe totally fell, which means that England would have had to fall.

Britain would have convinced America into fighting on their side anyway. And because Japan and Germany were allies, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was basiclly an act of war by both countries. The only way to keep America out of the war would be to knock out Britain quickly and keep Japan from attacking Pearl Harbor; because you have to remember, America was still largely isolationist in the 1930's and 40's

Again you are mistaken, German Air Superiority was an illusion, British Radar was years ahead of Germany's, the British knew when the Germans were coming long before the Germans even crossed the English Channel. The RAF was on top of the Luftwaffa before Goering knew what walked up and slapped him in the face. Germany couldn't invade Great Britain, the Royal Navy was simply better than the German Navy, their air force, though badly beaten, was better. And as for an invasion of America, US warships had largly pushed all German naval activity away from their borders. Germany had neither the capability nor the man power to be a direct threat to the United States of America.

Even with the radar that didn't stop the Germans from being able to out power the RAF. The German Luftwaffe had beaten up and destroyed most of the RAF but then Hitler order the luftwaffe to focus on destroying British city's which gave the RAF time to recover and beat back regain control over the skies.

IF I recall rightly the Royal navy was having its arse handed to itself by the U-boats. The Americans wouldn't stand very long fighting the German and Japan navy's so while the axis powers would of sustined many naval casualties they would of won.
It looks like your wrong , again.

Yes but were saying that If he hadn't invaded the Soviet Union.

Either way I think it is more plausible that he would never have attacked the U.K. or the USA than the USSR. War with the USSR was inevitable so discussing what may have happened had he not attacked them is pointless. Discussing what may have happened had the allies not declared war on him and left Hitler to attack the USSR is a more believable discussion.

Britain would have convinced America into fighting on their side anyway. And because Japan and Germany were allies, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was basiclly an act of war by both countries. The only way to keep America out of the war would be to knock out Britain quickly and keep Japan from attacking Pearl Harbor; because you have to remember, America was still largely isolationist in the 1930's and 40's

Exactly. So it would mean that Britain would really have to bust America's balls to get help.

So, without America in Europe, Germany would have an advantage, assuming that they didn't declare war on America, who like you said were very isolationist during the first years of the second world war.

However, if Germany didn't declare war on America, America would have pushed Japan back a lot quicker because they would have been able to keep all resources in the Pacific theatre.

It would have prolonged the war, but I think eventually America would go to the aid of the others if they felt their interests were threatened on the Atlantic side of the nation. And, instead of the a-bombs being dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they may have been tested in Germany as Germany would have more time to take over and it would be reluctant to back down as Japan was.

Britain would have convinced America into fighting on their side anyway. And because Japan and Germany were allies, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was basiclly an act of war by both countries. The only way to keep America out of the war would be to knock out Britain quickly and keep Japan from attacking Pearl Harbor; because you have to remember, America was still largely isolationist in the 1930's and 40's

Hitler talked to the Japanese about invasion , He tried to persuade them to invade the Soviet Union but they declined saying that another war with the Soviets was not in there best interests.

Even with the radar that didn't stop the Germans from being able to out power the RAF. The German Luftwaffe had beaten up and destroyed most of the RAF but then Hitler order the luftwaffe to focus on destroying British city's which gave the RAF time to recover and beat back regain control over the skies.

IF I recall rightly the Royal navy was having its arse handed to itself by the U-boats. The Americans wouldn't stand very long fighting the German and Japan navy's so while the axis powers would of sustined many naval casualties they would of won.
It looks like your wrong , again.

No, you are deluding yourself, what German Navy? America had pushed German submarine activity away from its coastal waters and the American Surface Navy obscenly outnumbered, outgunned and outclassed anything the Germans could muster. Once American Destroyers got into the fray the Royal Navy ceased to have its arse handed to them. Oh, and the only reason Hitler ordered the bombing of major British cities is because he couldn't break them by normal means. He couldn't achieve air superiority so he sought to break their moral by destroying their cities; but in truth this had the opposite affect and made the British even more steadfast!

Exactly. So it would mean that Britain would really have to bust America's balls to get help.

So, without America in Europe, Germany would have an advantage, assuming that they didn't declare war on America, who like you said were very isolationist during the first years of the second world war.

However, if Germany didn't declare war on America, America would have pushed Japan back a lot quicker because they would have been able to keep all resources in the Pacific theatre.

It would have prolonged the war, but I think eventually America would go to the aid of the others if they felt their interests were threatened on the Atlantic side of the nation. And, instead of the a-bombs being dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they may have been tested in Germany as Germany would have more time to take over and it would be reluctant to back down as Japan was.

The Germans at the beggining of the war did alot of research on a bomb along the lines of a Atomic-bomb but then they switched priorities to rocket technology which was a grave mistake because they might of beaten the USians to actually creating the A-bomb.

Hitler talked to the Japanese about invasion , He tried to persuade them to invade the Soviet Union but they declined saying that another war with the Soviets was not in there best interests.

Because they were persueing their objectives in the Pacific, they really only attacked the US because we stopped their flow of resources, the Japanese were hard pressed so they attacked, this drug America into the war (Roosevelt never really wanted to fight a war) and the US declared war on Japan, because Germany and Japan were allies Germany then declared war on the US it is a cascading series of events that all came together and in one way or another royally fucked Germany!

No, you are deluding yourself, what German Navy? America had pushed German submarine activity away from its coastal waters and the American Surface Navy obscenly outnumbered, outgunned and outclassed anything the Germans could muster. Once American Destroyers got into the fray the Royal Navy ceased to have its arse handed to them. Oh, and the only reason Hitler ordered the bombing of major British cities is because he couldn't break them by normal means. He couldn't achieve air superiority so he sought to break their moral by destroying their cities; but in truth this had the opposite affect and made the British even more steadfast!

The German navy which nearly starved Britain to death . The Americans started to devote most of there strengh against the Japs . And with hitler focusing on fighting in the Atlantic he would of focussed his entire industrial power there which would out power America and Britain . Hitler had basically destroyed the RAF and he ordered the attack on British Citie's because the British were mass bombing German cities. Although another main reason for that was trying to speed up the process of British defeat , Although If they wanted that all they had to do was invade.

The Germans at the beggining of the war did alot of research on a bomb along the lines of a Atomic-bomb but then they switched priorities to rocket technology which was a grave mistake because they might of beaten the USians to actually creating the A-bomb.

And they go nowhere, German scientists got the concept but couldn't get it to work, and if you will do a little research, Hitler dropped the plans for a German A-bomb, he believed the war was near completion and he wouldn't need it.

The Germans at the beggining of the war did alot of research on a bomb along the lines of a Atomic-bomb but then they switched priorities to rocket technology which was a grave mistake because they might of beaten the USians to actually creating the A-bomb.

AH, I had forgotten about that.

Ok, so I'll change my statement to include that maybe instead of Germany facing America that Germany and America would have been caught up in an arms race that was deadlier than the Russian-American one.

Because they were persueing their objectives in the Pacific, they really only attacked the US because we stopped their flow of resources, the Japanese were hard pressed so they attacked, this drug America into the war (Roosevelt never really wanted to fight a war) and the US declared war on Japan, because Germany and Japan were allies Germany then declared war on the US it is a cascading series of events that all came together and in one way or another royally fucked Germany!

America cut there flow of resources because Japan invaded China . Germany declared war on america because Hitler saw america as a un-cultured conglomerate of people which he believe would make them easy to push over.

I don't know...but my history teacher said he was apparently a speed addict :confused:...

AH, I had forgotten about that.

Ok, so I'll change my statement to include that maybe instead of Germany facing America that Germany and America would have been caught up in an arms race that was deadlier than the Russian-American one.

Germany had alot of technological power , From what I've heard some of the lead scientists in the manhatten project were German.
But yeah a German - American arms race would of been far deadlier.

I don't know...but my history teacher said he was apparently a speed addict :confused:...

What the :confused:

The German navy which nearly starved Britain to death . The Americans started to devote most of there strengh against the Japs . And with hitler focusing on fighting in the Atlantic he would of focussed his entire industrial power there which would out power America and Britain . Hitler had basically destroyed the RAF and he ordered the attack on British Citie's because the British were mass bombing German cities. Although another main reason for that was trying to speed up the process of British defeat , Although If they wanted that all they had to do was invade.

Do you not read history books. Hitler NEVER! wanted to go to war with Britain, he was actually, near the beginning of the war, hoping for a Anglo-German treaty to aide him in his war against the Soviet Union, this failed obviously when Britain declared war. Hitler, if you'll read, didn't want to destroy London or other cities, originally; but when Britain wouldn't break he decided what the hell destroy it all! As for the German (puny) Navy starving Britain, America was sending supplies to Great Britain long before America actually entered the war.

And the British were not mass bombing German cities, this really didn't start happening until after Normandy.

And they go nowhere, German scientists got the concept but couldn't get it to work, and if you will do a little research, Hitler dropped the plans for a German A-bomb, he believed the war was near completion and he wouldn't need it.

If he hadn't dropped the project theres a very good chance the Germans would of created a Atomic bomb.

Japan attempting to invade America I can see happening, they actually had more than a few battleships in their Navy, but if you don't mind me asking...how in the HELL would the Nazis invade Britain, let alone America, with out superiority in the air (which they didn't have) and a large navy for transporting goods and men (which they didn't have) explain this.

Seconded...IMO Hitler would never have gotten past the Royal Navy...

America cut there flow of resources because Japan invaded China . Germany declared war on america because Hitler saw america as a un-cultured conglomerate of people which he believe would make them easy to push over.

Bullshit, Hitler was afraid of America, he declared war because he had no choice. Japan made his choice for him.

Do you not read history books. Hitler NEVER! wanted to go to war with Britain, he was actually, near the beginning of the war, hoping for a Anglo-German treaty to aide him in his war against the Soviet Union, this failed obviously when Britain declared war. Hitler, if you'll read, didn't want to destroy London or other cities, originally; but when Britain wouldn't break he decided what the hell destroy it all! As for the German (puny) Navy starving Britain, America was sending supplies to Great Britain long before America actually entered the war.

And the British were not mass bombing German cities, this really didn't start happening until after Normandy.

I know Hitler didn't want a war with Britain but Britain did for the sake of helping the Eurpean countries that had suffered at hitlers hands. There was a good chance in 1939 were the germans could of starved Britain had they created more U-boats. And were talking about the events of world war two had he not invaded the Soviet Union not If he hadn't gone to war with Britain

Bullshit, Hitler was afraid of America, he declared war because he had no choice. Japan made his choice for him.

He didn't fear america , At the start of the war america was essentially a sleeping giant . America could of been extremely powerful but they weren't but when war broke out they powered up . Hitler thought of Americans as un-cultured masses just like Japanese saw Americans and the land of the gangster and didn't see how lazy America could beat hard working Japan. But as I said America became extremely powerful during the war.

If he hadn't dropped the project theres a very good chance the Germans would of created a Atomic bomb.

No

I know Hitler didn't want a war with Britain but Britain did for the sake of helping the Eurpean countries that had suffered at hitlers hands. There was a good chance in 1939 were the germans could of starved Britain had they created more U-boats. And were talking about the events of world war two had he not invaded the Soviet Union not If he hadn't gone to war with Britain

They didn't have the resources to build more U-boats, they just didn't. And Britain didn't declare war on any moral grounds, they pledged the security of Polish boarders, if Germany had invaded, lets say, Yugoslavia or some other nation, Britain wouldn't have declared war.

No

Yes , German had alot of technological power and good scientists. They would of been able to with time.

They didn't have the resources to build more U-boats, they just didn't. And Britain didn't declare war on any moral grounds, they pledged the security of Polish boarders, if Germany had invaded, lets say, Yugoslavia or some other nation, Britain wouldn't have declared war.

They would of had the resources had they not invaded the Soviet Union.

He didn't fear america , At the start of the war america was essentially a sleeping giant . America could of been extremely powerful but they weren't but when war broke out they powered up . Hitler thought of Americans as un-cultured masses just like Japanese saw Americans and the land of the gangster and didn't see how lazy America could beat hard working Japan. But as I said America became extremely powerful during the war.

And Hitler knew this, he feared America that is why when he did attack Britain he hoped to beat them quickly to avoid war with the US. But as I have states several times over, Japan fucked it up.

They would of had the resources had they not invaded the Soviet Union.

Urgh, that is one of the reasons he invaded the Soviet Union, for the oil fields. If he had an abundance of oil already in all likelyhood he wouldn't have invaded the Soviet Union. He didn't have enough resources to start with, he hoped Blitzkrieg would work in the USSR it didn't, the war of attrition destroyed the German army, coupled with the Russian Winter, all these things again compiled to royally fuck Germany!

Yes , German had alot of technological power and good scientists. They would of been able to with time.

They were good with rockets and the theory of atomic power and bombs, they didn't have the resources to seriously persue it, so Hitler dropped it in order to apply these scarse resources better at the front lines.

Okay, I think I'll say my opinion about this no Russian war what-if.

If Hitler had not of invaded Russia, he could of got all the oil he needed in the middle east. Now, I'm not a historical genius, but I think that if he had the manpower used in Operation Babarossa in the Middle East Theatre, Axis troops had a good chance of marching though Damascus, getting the oil he apprently needed to get from Russia.

He killed thousands of innocent people just for a god damn religion!!!!

He completely sane. However he was also a racist bastard. And an addict.

It seems to me that there are a variety of different debates in this thread, which I'll try to answer in turn.

1. Was Hitler clinically insane?

There is no evidence that Hitler suffered from any mental disease. A person can be unbelievably evil and still be completely sane. Late in life Hitler's behavior became very bizarre, but this can largely be attributed to his drug addiction.

2. Would Germany have lost the war had the USSR not been invaded?

Germany would never have developed an atomic bomb (see below). This would have made them easy prey for the US. Even before the Manhattan Project, Britain was developing its own bomb; it's not certain whether this would have been successful in time without US aid. The US and the UK would probably have eventually been victorious even without the USSR, but the war would probably have taken much longer and been much bloodier for the west. 90% of all German casualities were on the Eastern Front.

3. Was the invasion of the USSR inevitable?

Good question. It was stated in Mein Kampf as a Nazi aim, but Hitler's memoranda from the beginning of 1941 suggest that he still viewed relations with the USSR primarily in terms of the Balkans. It may have been Soviet influence there which determined him to attack, but we really don't know.

4. Was US participation inevitable?

Yes. US public opinion had been isolationist in the 1930s, but this changed rapidly once the US realized that Britain was in danger of actual invasion. Pearl Harbor arguably actually delayed US intervention in Europe because it forced the US to focus on another front. Even prior to Pearl Harbor, the US was a combattant for all practical purposes, with commanders of US naval vessels being ordered to attack German ships on sight.

5. Was the invasion of the USSR irrational because it took place in the autumn?

Actually, it was launched on June 22.

6. Germany nearly developed an atomic bomb; could this have resulted in a cold war of Germany vs. US?

German scientists had made some progress towards an atomic bomb; this, however, was shut down, not because of any resource concerns, but because the Nazis viewed post-Newtonian physics as "decadent" (partly because Einstein was Jewish).

Moreover, Hitler, like most German nationalists at the time, viewed any diplomatic cold war as perilous for Germany because of her relatively small population. He believed that the US and the USSR would dominate the world unless Germany succeeded in conquering "lebensraum" - enough space to support a population as large as that of the US or the USSR.

He killed thousands of innocent people just for a god damn religion!!!!

Uh, I think the word you are looking for is millions not thousands.

And Hitler knew this, he feared America that is why when he did attack Britain he hoped to beat them quickly to avoid war with the US. But as I have states several times over, Japan fucked it up.

Please bear in mind that Germany declared war on America, not vice versa. Pearl Harbor made very little difference in US attitudes towards Germany.

Please bear in mind that Germany declared war on America, not vice versa. Pearl Harbor made very little difference in US attitudes towards Germany.


I know this, but the point that I am trying to get across is this, war between the US and the Third Reich may have been inevitiable, but...because of diplomatic relations between germany and Japan, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor only aided to hasten Americas entry into the war.

Hitler was almost certainly mentally ill, but he was also almost certainly not insane. Nothing I've seen of history or his writings leads me to believe him incapable of telling right from wrong, and I don't think he should be let off so easily.

I think Hitler was extreamly intelligent and infact nowhere near insaine.

He did loads for Germany that was good, and many people forget this. He used peoples fears and predjudice to take control of an entire country. Can you honestly say someone who is mentaly insaine could even comprehend doing this let alone getting the back and actually doing it? No they couldn't.

Hitler basicly kept Germany from falling to pieces after the signing of the Treaty of Versailles. If Hitler hadn't gone to war and killed millions he would have been renound for being oneof the greatest leaders Germany has ever had.

My opinion is that Hitler wasn't insane. He was a normal person (and now you think that I'm some friggin nazi, but i'm not).

He just thought that the germans are the most powerful nation in the world and he is better than anyone else. You see people like that everyday. (And you would like to beat the crap out of them.)

So was Hitler insane:confused:. No.
Was he proud of being a german. Yes.

So he wasn't insane. He was just a rascist who wanted to rule the world.

He killed thousands of innocent people just for a god damn religion!!!!

1) It was millions of people

2) Hitler didn't kill them for a religion as he was not religious. Instead he killed them for a flawed political ideology...although that is in no way better and equally insane.

3) I agree with you, he was insane but he was also very clever in his success at gaining power and then removing his opposition in the country.

I know this, but the point that I am trying to get across is this, war between the US and the Third Reich may have been inevitiable, but...because of diplomatic relations between germany and Japan, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor only aided to hasten Americas entry into the war.

What war? We have a habit of thinking of World War II as a single conflict, and it wasn't. There was the Japan-China war (1931-45), the Germany-USSR war (1941-5), the Franco-German war (1939-40, 1944-5), and so on. It was entirely possible for a country to be at war with one of the Axis Powers but not the others, and this did frequently happen (Russia did not declare war on Japan until 1945). For practical purposes, the US was already at war with Germany by the time Pearl Harbor occurred. As I noted in my previous post, US naval officers were ordered to destroy German vessels at sight. This was not the action of a neutral.

Hitler didn't kill them for a religion as he was not religious.

Actually he was a Christian (Roman Catholic if I remember rightly).

EDIT: am I right in assuming you meant 'not religious' to mean 'atheist' rather than 'not especially devout'? Apologies if not.

Actually he was a Christian (Roman Catholic if I remember rightly).

EDIT: am I right in assuming you meant 'not religious' to mean 'atheist' rather than 'not especially devout'? Apologies if not.

I meant as in athiest. He never was a Christain seeing as his aims were to remove relgion from German society which he began doing by replacing the bible with mein kampf in some churches.

I meant as in athiest. He never was a Christain seeing as his aims were to remove relgion from German society which he began doing by replacing the bible with mein kampf in some churches.
Hitler wasn't really much of a Christian, but he wasn't an atheist. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs#Views_as_an_adult) Yeah, yeah, I know it's Wikipedia.

Possibly...he was also believed to be a druggie near the end.

Honestly was he? In my opinion, *snip*

And there is the problem. "Sanity" is a matter of opinion. There is no clinical definition of "Sane" or "insane." It is a culturally defined state, and therefore moot.

Honestly was he? In my opinion, for a person to be insane they have to commit a crime but not understand that they did it, or understand why. From what I have seen and read, Adolf Hitler knew exactly what he was doing, he understood the consequences of his actions entirely; he may not have paid them any heed, but he understood them. So, in my opinion, he was not insane.

"Insane" is just a legal term, it doesn't have any real psychological meaning. So yeah, I agree with you - he was sane. Sane enough that if he underwent trial for what he did, he'd be convicted.

Hitler wasn't insane

He was one of the greatest humans ever to live

I have read once... can find the source if needed, but only after the holidays, that he insisted that a person would guard his room while he was sleeping and those guards said he was loud, apparently from nightmares) in his sleep like every night.... so yeah, he sure lacked some screws...

when he tried to write Mien Kamp, it ended up so screwy that a ghost writer had to write it for him
Hitler hated writing - he was never really into putting things down on paper. He did write the first part of Mein Kampf himself, but dictated the rest to Hess who was better educated and thus wrote more eloquently.

No-one in their right mind would believe that what hitler was doing was going to make Germany strong. They all knew that what Hitler was doing was going to make Germany the most hated country in the world.
Really now? Between 1933 and 1939 Hitler created jobs for about 6 million unemployed people, started the whole Volkswagen business, added the Sudetenland and Austria to Germany. Yeah, I can see how the German public would see those as horrible things... :rolleyes:

I think, in the beginning, he was absolutely brilliant in manipulating Germany to his own ends, but as time passed and he demanded more power and territory, he initiated his own self-destruction.

I can't really say wheather or not he was initially insane, but by the end of the war, there's no doubt he was. His constant optimism for Germany even up to the Battle of Berlin would destroy anybody.

Oh, almost forgot. There is no evidence Hitler ever wanted to physically destroy the Jews, or even that he ever gave an actual order to begin the holocaust. Sure he often spoke of the Jews as an disease Germany had be cleansed of, but just as often he spoke about forcing the Jews to move to Madagascar, or just anywhere out of his realm.

I can't really say wheather or not he was initially insane, but by the end of the war, there's no doubt he was. His constant optimism for Germany even up to the Battle of Berlin would destroy anybody.
I agree.

Not insane by your definition. Messianic paranoia and a very childish temperament. Couldn't take advice, a bully. Worst of all, a patriot. ;)

I think people say "insane" because of Hitler's oratory. It looks insane, and if you don't speak german it's easy to read too much into the frothing at the mouth and biting his own lips thing.

Right, but what I am asking is if what he did could be contributed to the fact that he had a mental illness, or was he just evil?

Well, the poll didn't really ask that, so don't interpret the results to be related to that.

*admits he hasn't read through all previous posts and then states*

Hitler was clearly not insane. He did not put pencils up his nose, underpants on his head and say wibble.

Fact.

Hitler wasn't insane

He was one of the greatest humans ever to live

Fourth Holy Reich?

Honestly was he? In my opinion, for a person to be insane they have to commit a crime but not understand that they did it, or understand why. From what I have seen and read, Adolf Hitler knew exactly what he was doing, he understood the consequences of his actions entirely; he may not have paid them any heed, but he understood them. So, in my opinion, he was not insane.

Well, he made his flag the Greek sign of good-luck in order to win the favour of Apollow and Zeus; he thought Germans were genetically enginered by aliens, and then bred with gods; he thought Jews came from humans inter-breeding with apes and dogs; he tried to contact Satan to send Demons to help him.
What exactly do you need to qualify for insanity again?

The scary thing is, Hitler probably wasn't insane.

Just like many racist pigs out there.

Fourth Holy Reich?

FUCK!

Get the NSG armory active! A rifle and ammo for everyone!

All males ages 18-55 will be drafted!

Well, he made his flag the Greek sign of good-luck in order to win the favour of Apollow and Zeus; he thought Germans were genetically enginered by aliens, and then bred with gods; he thought Jews came from humans inter-breeding with apes and dogs; he tried to contact Satan to send Demons to help him.
What exactly do you need to qualify for insanity again?

You need to lack a comprehension regarding the culpability and consequences of one's own actions. Hitler knew full well what he was doing. Having zany or incorrect ideas doesn't make someone insane. You especially should know that, TPE.

You especially should know that, TPE.

:p Very funny, but I have accused o' being a slight titched-in-the-head on these forums.

Anyway, under that definition, I'd say he was insane since he failed to see how stupid it was to turn on Stalin.

:p Very funny, but I have accused o' being a slight titched-in-the-head on these forum.

Yeah, well I've been accused of being a liberal on this forum too...

Anyway, under that definition, I'd say he was insane since he failed to see how stupid it was to turn on Stalin.

Jeez, fine, let me get the real definition.

"such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility"

There we go. Hitler was sane. He just made an error in judgement with Stalin, anyone can do that. One might even suggest Stalin duped poor Adolph into betraying him by using the My Dictator Mustache Is Bigger Than Yours intimidation technique.

Yeah, well I've been accused of being a liberal on this forum too...

You...aren't?

Jeez, fine, let me get the real definition.

"such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility"

There we go. Hitler was sane. He just made an error in judgement with Stalin, anyone can do that. One might even suggest Stalin duped poor Adolph into betraying him by using the My Dictator Mustache Is Bigger Than Yours intimidation technique.

Well, he made quite few errors. The fact for instance that he had gays executed because they supposedly "ruined society", but also told people that homosexuals made better generals and leaders (he specifically employed many), shows an...ahem...unusual train of thought, which even trumps mine.

Yes he was insane what person starts a war with the USSR and the US at the same time.

You...aren't?


It depends on who I'm arguing with. And because everyone has their own definition of "liberal." I myself think the terms are entirely useless because of this subjectiveness and ambiguity.

Well, he made quite few errors. The fact for instance that he had gays executed because they supposedly "ruined society", but also told people that homosexuals made better generals and leaders (he specifically employed many), shows an...ahem...unusual train of thought, which even trumps mine.

Yeah, but even so. Hypocrisy is not insanity. Insanity is a very specific thing, it can't be broadened to include, for example, the entire state of Wisconsin. Though maybe it should.

It depends on who I'm arguing with. And because everyone has their own definition of "liberal." I myself think the terms are entirely useless because of this subjectiveness and ambiguity.

Generally, it means left-winged.
I'll give a positive-light definition: they strongly support personal Liberties, such as drug-use and gay-marrige; they tend to think religion does far-more harm then good; they generally think the military is a bad thing, and can't really fix Jack; they feel more sorry for the down-trodden, and are more likely to support programs like welfare; they are almost always anti-Bush (as any Conservative with a brain in their head would be also); they populate the majority of NS.

Yeah, but even so. Hypocrisy is not insanity. Insanity is a very specific thing, it can't be broadened to include, for example, the entire state of Wisconsin. Though maybe it should.

No, no. Hypocrisy would be Hitler executing gays, while he himself was gay. This was just lopsided reasoning...beyond Bush reasoning even.

FUCK!

Get the NSG armory active! A rifle and ammo for everyone!

All males ages 18-55 will be drafted!

soo....will this war be over before September 24th so that I don't get drafted?....

He did loads for Germany that was good, and many people forget this. He used peoples fears and predjudice to take control of an entire country. Can you honestly say someone who is mentaly insaine could even comprehend doing this let alone getting the back and actually doing it? No they couldn't.

Yes they could. Just because someone is mentally ill doesn't mean they are completely incapable of achieving a difficult task.

He wasn't insane, he was possessed! Except for that he arrested most of the Catholic priests just like the Jews, so he couldn't get an exorcism. And that's why he made a bunch of dumb military choices later on, because the demon possessing him didn't care if the Germans won, it just wanted bunches of suffering and death for the Germans as well as everyone else!!!!11!!!

Mostly joking :p

Insane, no. He just blew several major calls that might have had a major effect on the war, such as: attacking the USSR, declaring war on the US, redirecting the Luftwaffe to target UK cities instead of their air force, and a couple others.

Insane, no. He just blew several major calls that might have had a major effect on the war, such as: attacking the USSR, declaring war on the US, redirecting the Luftwaffe to target UK cities instead of their air force, and a couple others.

*Squints eyes* Just out of curiosity, you're not a Nazi, or NPD are you?

I find it interesting that while Hitler caused so much destruction he could not bear to see the destruction. He never saw the destroyed cities (when he had to drive through his cars had blackened windows) and he never saw the concentration camps. There was obviously some division in his mind between the aims he had set and the ways these aims were supposed to be reached according to his own orders.

No, no. Hypocrisy would be Hitler executing gays, while he himself was gay. Hitler wasn't gay.

No, most assuredly not. I'm Canadian and a supporter of the British parliamentary system. I just enjoy torturing my virtual subjects a bit too much. Oh, and a bit of a WWII history nut.

No, most assuredly not. I'm Canadian and a supporter of the British parliamentary system. I just enjoy torturing my virtual subjects a bit too much. Oh, and a bit of a WWII history nut.

I can understand. :)

Still, I had to find-out. Ya never know, ya know.

Hitler wasn't gay.
Well, actually that's debated, but I personally don't believe he was :p.

Whoever said he was gay here?

Whoever said he was gay here?The one I quoted.

If I read him correctly, he never said Hitler was gay, he said Hitler would be a hypocrite IF he killed gays for being gay when he was gay himself.

If I read him correctly, he never said Hitler was gay, he said Hitler would be a hypocrite IF he killed gays for being gay when he was gay himself.So this is/was sentence with no meaning at all, according to all the woulds and ifs. We are not talking about a hypothetical Hitler, you know.

Personally I don't believe that Hitler was insane or that the Holocaust happened, history is written by those victorious so some misinformation is to be expected.

Personally I don't believe that Hitler was insane or that the Holocaust happened, history is written by those victorious so some misinformation is to be expected.

*Raises eyebrows* I won't assume you're a Hitler-lover, just skeptical. Have you seen the evidence? The German citizens were not the victors. Doesn't THEIR testimony count?

Personally I don't believe that Hitler was insane or that the Holocaust happened, history is written by those victorious so some misinformation is to be expected.You are denying the Holocaust?
Will you travel to the EU anytime soon, particularly Austria and Germany?

So this is/was sentence with no meaning at all, according to all the woulds and ifs. We are not talking about a hypothetical Hitler, you know.

It had to do with the mis-use of the word hypocrite. I was presenting an example of it's proper use, in order to show the difference between hypocritical and crazy.

Personally I don't believe that Hitler was insane or that the Holocaust happened, history is written by those victorious so some misinformation is to be expected.

Another thing: don't you find it a wee-bit odd that SIX MILLION Jews just...poof...vanished, and all their funds appeared in a Swiss bank-account kept by the Nazis?

Personally I don't believe that Hitler was insane or that the Holocaust happened, history is written by those victorious so some misinformation is to be expected.

Get a Ouija Board and try telling that to my grandpa who saw one of those camps and never ever wanted to see one again!

Get a Ouija Board and try telling that to my grandpa who saw one of those camps and never ever wanted to see one again!

Indeed. both my Grampas fought in the War, and the one on my father's side personally saw the trains full of dead Jews.

Indeed. both my Grampas fought in the War, and the one on my father's side personally saw the trains full of dead Jews.

When he was alive, my grandpa would never talk about what he saw in the camps. He told his superior officer to never make him go into one ever again, so I can't even begin to imagine the horrible things that he saw in there.

When he was alive, my grandpa would never talk about what he saw in the camps. He told his superior officer to never make him go into one ever again, so I can't even begin to imagine the horrible things that he saw in there.

Maybe as bad as those Al Queda drawings.

Maybe as bad as those Al Queda drawings.

Trust me, this was waaayyy worse than looking at some drawings...

R.I.P. Grandpa Kidd I'll Always Love you and Remember you Grandpa. :)

Trust me, this was waaayyy worse than looking at some drawings...

R.I.P. Grandpa Kidd I'll Always Love you and Remember you Grandpa. :)

I'm sure it was. I meant something comparable to what those drawing depicted.

Honestly was he? In my opinion, for a person to be insane they have to commit a crime but not understand that they did it, or understand why. From what I have seen and read, Adolf Hitler knew exactly what he was doing, he understood the consequences of his actions entirely; he may not have paid them any heed, but he understood them. So, in my opinion, he was not insane.

Wow! You must be a very open-minded person to think that. :)

Honestly was he? In my opinion, for a person to be insane they have to commit a crime but not understand that they did it, or understand why. From what I have seen and read, Adolf Hitler knew exactly what he was doing, he understood the consequences of his actions entirely; he may not have paid them any heed, but he understood them. So, in my opinion, he was not insane.
Nay, Hitler was insanely awesome!
He had to be insane to get such stupid ideas.
You mean like thinking that shit hole poor excuss for a country Poland, would be worth the time invading?

If Poland had a Nazi government established around 1936 through maybe a coup, the world would be a much different place.

After playing a very historical simulation/game this was shown. Poland turned to Nazi policies, decided to build up its forces, and tried invading Lithuania in 1937. Only to get the USSR to declare war on Poland and Poland allies itself to Germany.

In the game, the year is now 1949 and the USSR controls all of Europe except Britain, and half of Asia. America controls all of Africa. And Japan controls half of Asia along with China, who they made a temporary cease fire with to beat back the Soviets.

Alternative histories are fun. But on the subject really at hand, no, Hitler was not insane. Some of his ideas were, but not him as a whole.